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Thread: *** OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Race Thread ***

  1. #61
    Gold MrTickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Eiizabeth Warren thinks that most student loan debt (aside from debt held by the currently wealthy) should be wiped off the books.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/04/22/71595...dent-loan-debt

    Uh huh.

    So screw everyone else who played by the rules and paid off their loans? Also screw the people who didn't go to college and took a lower paying job because they didn't want loans, right?

    Only the people with existing loans matter, apparently.

    Why canít you just be happy some people are getting a leg up?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Eiizabeth Warren thinks that most student loan debt (aside from debt held by the currently wealthy) should be wiped off the books.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/04/22/71595...dent-loan-debt

    Uh huh.

    So screw everyone else who played by the rules and paid off their loans? Also screw the people who didn't go to college and took a lower paying job because they didn't want loans, right?

    Only the people with existing loans matter, apparently.

    Why can’t you just be happy some people are getting a leg up?
    Because it rewards the irresponsible over the responsible/honest ones.

    Picture this:

    A casino has a $50k poker tournament, and allows you to enter it on credit.

    You can't afford anywhere near $50k, but you decide to take a shot anyway, and enter on credit.

    You don't cash, and owe $50k.

    After 8 years of hard work, you slowly pay off the $50k plus interest. You go without a lot of little things you'd like to have in life, in order to responsibly keep making payments. You pat yourself on the back for being responsible and getting this debt off your back.

    Three days after you're done paying it off, the casino announces, "A lot of the people who entered the tournament 8 years ago couldn't really afford it, and we shouldn't have allowed it to be entered on credit. Therefore, as many people haven't paid us back anything at all, we are just forgiving all debts involving this tournament, and nobody owes us anything."

    You then approach the casino and say, "Wow, that was very generous of you. I just finished paying it off 3 days ago. Can I have my $50k back now?"

    "Sorry, you already paid it off," they tell you. "You don't qualify. Try not being so responsible next time, buddy."

    Are you saying you'd be happy for the others getting a "leg up" by getting out of their debt, or would you feel ripped off and pissed?

  3. #63
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Team Bernie recently dropped a devastating campaign ad featuring the closing of GMís Lordstown, Ohio plant. In my frequent runs along I-80 through eastern Ohio, I regular pass right by this huge splawling plant. And so do thousands and thousands of Midwest voters. That plant is going to be a daily reminder to them that Trumpís populist economic campaign chatter that helped him win in 2016 was just a demagogic con manís opportunistic pack of lies.

    Is the guy in this video a converted Trump supporter who is angry about the GM plant?

    Or was he an active BernieBro dating back to 2015?

    I'm guessing he was always Team Bernie.

    That makes the video less powerful and less interesting, if true.

    The guy seems way too pro-Bernie to just be a disgruntled Ohioan.

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    Well I got my answer. The guy's name is Chuckie Denison.

    Here's his Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/chuckie.denison

    He has Bernie propaganda plastered all over it, dating back awhile.

    He also lists himself as "retired" (??), and "progressive activist".

    Interesting how the video holds him out to be a disgruntled, repeatedly laid off auto worker.

    In reality, he's retired (not exactly "fighting back" as he said in the video), and now focuses on activism for Bernie.

    Once again, Democrats are parading one of their activists/operatives as an average Joe citizen.

    Shameful.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Well I got my answer. The guy's name is Chuckie Denison.

    Here's his Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/chuckie.denison

    He has Bernie propaganda plastered all over it, dating back awhile.

    He also lists himself as "retired" (??), and "progressive activist".

    Interesting how the video holds him out to be a disgruntled, repeatedly laid off auto worker.

    In reality, he's retired (not exactly "fighting back" as he said in the video), and now focuses on activism for Bernie.

    Once again, Democrats are parading one of their activists/operatives as an average Joe citizen.

    Shameful.
    It doesnít matter if the guy featured in that ad has been a long-time Bernie supporter. I-80 runs along the huge empty parking lot of that Lordstown plant, and will serve as a daily reminder of the many folks who see it that Trump is a fraud and con man who lied about how he was going to save/bring back their jobs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellafriend View Post
    There is only one scumbag here:


    ME

  6. #66
    Gold MrTickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post

    Why canít you just be happy some people are getting a leg up?
    Because it rewards the irresponsible over the responsible/honest ones.

    Picture this:

    A casino has a $50k poker tournament, and allows you to enter it on credit.

    You can't afford anywhere near $50k, but you decide to take a shot anyway, and enter on credit.

    You don't cash, and owe $50k.

    After 8 years of hard work, you slowly pay off the $50k plus interest. You go without a lot of little things you'd like to have in life, in order to responsibly keep making payments. You pat yourself on the back for being responsible and getting this debt off your back.

    Three days after you're done paying it off, the casino announces, "A lot of the people who entered the tournament 8 years ago couldn't really afford it, and we shouldn't have allowed it to be entered on credit. Therefore, as many people haven't paid us back anything at all, we are just forgiving all debts involving this tournament, and nobody owes us anything."

    You then approach the casino and say, "Wow, that was very generous of you. I just finished paying it off 3 days ago. Can I have my $50k back now?"

    "Sorry, you already paid it off," they tell you. "You don't qualify. Try not being so responsible next time, buddy."

    Are you saying you'd be happy for the others getting a "leg up" by getting out of their debt, or would you feel ripped off and pissed?
    It's clear we see the world in a completely different way. Some people haven't managed to get a good enough job, they've struggled to pay back their student loan and it hangs like a guillotine over their head every month. They get a reprieve. We should all be happy for them. It's not about financial responsibility, it's about removing an unfair and debilitating financial burden. We should be happy for anyone who gets to escape from this.

    If you've managed to pay it off - congratulations. But being pissed because someone got some help when you didn't is the sign of a bitter and jealous human being. As a society we should all be happy when good things happen to others. It's not about you, it's about them.

     
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      DJ_Chaps: wow what a fucking idiot

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    Because it rewards the irresponsible over the responsible/honest ones.

    Picture this:

    A casino has a $50k poker tournament, and allows you to enter it on credit.

    You can't afford anywhere near $50k, but you decide to take a shot anyway, and enter on credit.

    You don't cash, and owe $50k.

    After 8 years of hard work, you slowly pay off the $50k plus interest. You go without a lot of little things you'd like to have in life, in order to responsibly keep making payments. You pat yourself on the back for being responsible and getting this debt off your back.

    Three days after you're done paying it off, the casino announces, "A lot of the people who entered the tournament 8 years ago couldn't really afford it, and we shouldn't have allowed it to be entered on credit. Therefore, as many people haven't paid us back anything at all, we are just forgiving all debts involving this tournament, and nobody owes us anything."

    You then approach the casino and say, "Wow, that was very generous of you. I just finished paying it off 3 days ago. Can I have my $50k back now?"

    "Sorry, you already paid it off," they tell you. "You don't qualify. Try not being so responsible next time, buddy."

    Are you saying you'd be happy for the others getting a "leg up" by getting out of their debt, or would you feel ripped off and pissed?
    It's clear we see the world in a completely different way. Some people haven't managed to get a good enough job, they've struggled to pay back their student loan and it hangs like a guillotine over their head every month. They get a reprieve. We should all be happy for them. It's not about financial responsibility, it's about removing an unfair and debilitating financial burden. We should be happy for anyone who gets to escape from this.

    If you've managed to pay it off - congratulations. But being pissed because someone got some help when you didn't is the sign of a bitter and jealous human being. As a society we should all be happy when good things happen to others. It's not about you, it's about them.
    i think if i didn't go to college (like 50% of our population), i wouldn't be that happy that i'm subsidizing free tuition for those that chose to go

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by GambleBotsChafedPenis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post

    That's a fair point.

    But they're never gonna pay that shit back.
    probably not, but jesus fucking Christ be an adult and live with the decisions you made...my father had many a conversation with me starting my junior year in high school that basically revolved around 'don't be fucking stupid'...not to say it sunk in right away, but eventually after you hear something over and over and over again, shit starts to sink in...


    I'm willing to wager that most of these people didn't have fathers in their home.

     
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      GambleBotsChafedPenis: This Is True/I Now Appreciate My Pops Being A Fucking Hardass Rep

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post
    It's clear we see the world in a completely different way. Some people haven't managed to get a good enough job, they've struggled to pay back their student loan and it hangs like a guillotine over their head every month. They get a reprieve. We should all be happy for them. It's not about financial responsibility, it's about removing an unfair and debilitating financial burden. We should be happy for anyone who gets to escape from this.

    Why is the financial burden "unfair" ?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post

    It's clear we see the world in a completely different way. Some people haven't managed to get a good enough job, they've struggled to pay back their student loan and it hangs like a guillotine over their head every month. They get a reprieve. We should all be happy for them. It's not about financial responsibility, it's about removing an unfair and debilitating financial burden. We should be happy for anyone who gets to escape from this.

    If you've managed to pay it off - congratulations. But being pissed because someone got some help when you didn't is the sign of a bitter and jealous human being. As a society we should all be happy when good things happen to others. It's not about you, it's about them.
    i think if i didn't go to college (like 50% of our population), i wouldn't be that happy that i'm subsidizing free tuition for those that chose to go
    Youíre not subsidising college, youíre enabling your country to develop the next best scientists, engineers etc. so you and your children can live in a happier, richer, more advanced and culturally rich nation.

     
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      MumblesBadly: Mostly agree, but what if they major in Women’s Studies?

  11. #71
    Gold MrTickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellafriend View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post
    It's clear we see the world in a completely different way. Some people haven't managed to get a good enough job, they've struggled to pay back their student loan and it hangs like a guillotine over their head every month. They get a reprieve. We should all be happy for them. It's not about financial responsibility, it's about removing an unfair and debilitating financial burden. We should be happy for anyone who gets to escape from this.

    Why is the financial burden "unfair" ?
    Education should be a right not a privilege.

     
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      MumblesBadly: :this

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellafriend View Post


    Why is the financial burden "unfair" ?
    Education should be a right not a privilege.

    Anyone can get an education; student loans are available to everyone. You don't have a right to have someone else pick up the tab. You are conflating the two.

     
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      Jayjami: This

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post

    i think if i didn't go to college (like 50% of our population), i wouldn't be that happy that i'm subsidizing free tuition for those that chose to go
    Youíre not subsidising college, youíre enabling your country to develop the next best scientists, engineers etc. so you and your children can live in a happier, richer, more advanced and culturally rich nation.
    but the people going to college will benefit from this wealth and cultural advancement while the people living in flyover states or the inner cities won't

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post

    i think if i didn't go to college (like 50% of our population), i wouldn't be that happy that i'm subsidizing free tuition for those that chose to go
    You’re not subsidising college, you’re enabling your country to develop the next best scientists, engineers etc. so you and your children can live in a happier, richer, more advanced and culturally rich nation.
    that's what I was getting at in my earlier post...if you get some sorta science/engineering degree, student loans are probably a pain in your ass if you took them out but they aren't financially crippling because you are making good money in those fields...when I was coming out of school ages ago a starting chem E would make like $70...nowadays a starting I banker makes like $90-100...and on and on if you pick a major that has earning potential...if you're making those kinda bucks in your early 20s you'll be fine paying off your student loans...

    if you get a degree in poetry and youre now making $30K a year schlubbing shit at starbucks then that's your fault for being a fucking moron and paying a shitton of money for a degree that is worthless...
    Last edited by GambleBotsChafedPenis; 04-23-2019 at 07:46 AM.

  15. #75
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Well I got my answer. The guy's name is Chuckie Denison.

    Here's his Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/chuckie.denison

    He has Bernie propaganda plastered all over it, dating back awhile.

    He also lists himself as "retired" (??), and "progressive activist".

    Interesting how the video holds him out to be a disgruntled, repeatedly laid off auto worker.

    In reality, he's retired (not exactly "fighting back" as he said in the video), and now focuses on activism for Bernie.

    Once again, Democrats are parading one of their activists/operatives as an average Joe citizen.

    Shameful.
    It doesn’t matter if the guy featured in that ad has been a long-time Bernie supporter. I-80 runs along the huge empty parking lot of that Lordstown plant, and will serve as a daily reminder of the many folks who see it that Trump is a fraud and con man who lied about how he was going to save/bring back their jobs.
    I'm not saying it's an ineffective ad.

    That's what the Democrats need to be doing -- appealing to the working class swing voter -- and less of the embrace of socialism and full-term abortion.

    However, I'm stating that the ad is misleading, and that this tactic has become increasingly common from the Democratic Party. They parade what appears to be everymen in front of the camera stating their concerns, when in reality those people are established activists/operatives within the party. I find it to be very dishonest. It's interesting that Bernie is now doing this, given that he was recently a VICTIM of such tactics by the DNC at a town hall earlier this year. I guess if you can't beat the shadiness, join the shadiness, right?

     
    Comments
      
      MumblesBadly: The shadiness has repeatedly worked for the GOP. It’s past time for the Dems to stop bringing knives to a gunfight.

  16. #76
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    What the Democrats need to do is find/identify people in working class areas who voted for Trump in 2016 (preferably ones who were visible supporters of his at the time), who have since come to resent him for breaking promises to them.

    THAT would be powerful, provided the stories are actually true and can't be debunked by a little research.

    I'm sure some people like that can be found.

    Will they do this?

    Who knows? There's a lot of time until the general election, but the Democrats have fucked up strategically pretty badly in the past few years, so it wouldn't surprise me if they completely flub the 2020 election as badly as 2016.

  17. #77
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    I've talked to some swing voters lately. These are people who hate Trump, some of whom voted for Hillary.

    They have slowly moved more left, in an enemy-of-the-enemy-is-our-friend sort of way, regarding Trump.

    Some of them were all ready to support the Democratic candidate in 2020, until some of the recent extremism has come out.

    These people simply can't relate to the concepts of reparations, full-term abortion, UBI, transgender 6-year-olds, or embracing of the socialist label.

    When they see this rhetoric come from the Democrats, they start to reevaluate their recent leftward turn, and think to themselves, "I detest Trump, and I'm not happy with the Republicans in general, but WTF is this shit on the other side?"

    I've heard this from several swing voters in 2019. They were all ready to vote Trump (and by extension, other Republicans) out of office in 2020, but now they're not so sure.

    This is so painfully obvious to me, yet I feel like Democrats are not getting this point. They still seem to think that the key to victory is being really progressive and exciting the base to show up to the polls. That will backfire.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I've talked to some swing voters lately. These are people who hate Trump, some of whom voted for Hillary.

    They have slowly moved more left, in an enemy-of-the-enemy-is-our-friend sort of way, regarding Trump.

    Some of them were all ready to support the Democratic candidate in 2020, until some of the recent extremism has come out.

    These people simply can't relate to the concepts of reparations, full-term abortion, UBI, transgender 6-year-olds, or embracing of the socialist label.

    When they see this rhetoric come from the Democrats, they start to reevaluate their recent leftward turn, and think to themselves, "I detest Trump, and I'm not happy with the Republicans in general, but WTF is this shit on the other side?"

    I've heard this from several swing voters in 2019. They were all ready to vote Trump (and by extension, other Republicans) out of office in 2020, but now they're not so sure.

    This is so painfully obvious to me, yet I feel like Democrats are not getting this point. They still seem to think that the key to victory is being really progressive and exciting the base to show up to the polls. That will backfire.
    I am not even sure all the democrats are trying to win. I am sure a lot of them are. But I think there is a sort of nihilism, where they are so dedicated to the victim narrative, they secretly want to lose, so they can cry ďvictimĒ even louder and wail about persecution the next 4 years.
    I smoke color purple
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    Watch your mouth, Milli Vanilli
    You can get snaked, you can get faked
    I'll buy the bitch that you feeling
    'Cause you thought that she was an angel
    That bitch ain't no angel, I treat her halo like a Frisbee

  19. #79
    Gold MrTickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    These people simply can't relate to the concepts of reparations, full-term abortion, UBI, transgender 6-year-olds, or embracing of the socialist label.
    Which candidate supports all this?

     
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      MumblesBadly: You caught Druff putting up the GOP’s strawman of the Dem candidate.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post

    Why canít you just be happy some people are getting a leg up?
    Because it rewards the irresponsible over the responsible/honest ones.

    Picture this:

    A casino has a $50k poker tournament, and allows you to enter it on credit.

    You can't afford anywhere near $50k, but you decide to take a shot anyway, and enter on credit.

    You don't cash, and owe $50k.

    After 8 years of hard work, you slowly pay off the $50k plus interest. You go without a lot of little things you'd like to have in life, in order to responsibly keep making payments. You pat yourself on the back for being responsible and getting this debt off your back.

    Three days after you're done paying it off, the casino announces, "A lot of the people who entered the tournament 8 years ago couldn't really afford it, and we shouldn't have allowed it to be entered on credit. Therefore, as many people haven't paid us back anything at all, we are just forgiving all debts involving this tournament, and nobody owes us anything."

    You then approach the casino and say, "Wow, that was very generous of you. I just finished paying it off 3 days ago. Can I have my $50k back now?"

    "Sorry, you already paid it off," they tell you. "You don't qualify. Try not being so responsible next time, buddy."

    Are you saying you'd be happy for the others getting a "leg up" by getting out of their debt, or would you feel ripped off and pissed?
    I agree with you Druff.

    A better solution would just make interest rates be 0%. What would you think of that?

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