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Thread: *** OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Race Thread ***

  1. #2001
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    for those wondering if bernie is going to absolutely harvest trump's soul in an election, this is him talking some Real Shit with a fucking fox news audience:

    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  2. #2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    for those wondering if bernie is going to absolutely harvest trump's soul in an election, this is him talking some Real Shit with a fucking fox news audience:

    I have to admit the formats of the debates make him come off crazier than he really is. Going on Joe Rogan was one of the smarter things he ever did because he was able to comfortably explain himself. I haven’t looked when his uptick started but I wonder if it was around the time of that interview. I’ve always thought he was the most genuine candidate by miles but I can’t get behind the extreme components of his plan.

  3. #2003
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    for those wondering if bernie is going to absolutely harvest trump's soul in an election, this is him talking some Real Shit with a fucking fox news audience:

    Yeah it's weird. Bernie has the smarts to demolish Trump in a debate. But a few are speculating there will be no debate. At which point Democrats should just wage a media war outlying what a piece of shit Trump is as a human.

    Left or Right is almost irrelevant when you have a psychotic at the helm and whose track record says it all.

     
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      sonatine:

  4. #2004
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    bernie's appeal to the forgotten middle to lower-middle class is actually similar to trump's message. i think he'd have a chance against trump, but he has to hedge on medicare for all.

    i still think running on taking away your private insurance in favor of government funded healthcare is too scary for most people. the average person is covered by insurance and likes it (rightly or wrongly), and will never dig deep and critically analyze (or even understand) the merits of his proposal. he needs to pivot to a public option like the other candidates with the unspoken goal being medicare for all down the road.

  5. #2005
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      MumblesBadly: Bernie/Warren 2020!!!

  6. #2006
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    bernie's appeal to the forgotten middle to lower-middle class is actually similar to trump's message. i think he'd have a chance against trump, but he has to hedge on medicare for all.

    i still think running on taking away your private insurance in favor of government funded healthcare is too scary for most people. the average person is covered by insurance and likes it (rightly or wrongly), and will never dig deep and critically analyze (or even understand) the merits of his proposal. he needs to pivot to a public option like the other candidates with the unspoken goal being medicare for all down the road.
    yeah but

    The average bible thumping racist red nick doesn't think like you

  7. #2007
    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    bernie's appeal to the forgotten middle to lower-middle class is actually similar to trump's message. i think he'd have a chance against trump, but he has to hedge on medicare for all.

    i still think running on taking away your private insurance in favor of government funded healthcare is too scary for most people. the average person is covered by insurance and likes it (rightly or wrongly), and will never dig deep and critically analyze (or even understand) the merits of his proposal. he needs to pivot to a public option like the other candidates with the unspoken goal being medicare for all down the road.
    The problem with a Public-option-now-but-Medical-for-all plan private insurance companies would dump their higher risk policyholders, who in turn would load up the federally-funded insurance fund with higher cost policyholders, and the ballooning cost of the public option policies would be used as political ammunition to drive down support for adopting Medicare-for-all. That would be a repeat of what the GOP has already done with Obamacare plans when they gutted the individual mandate penalty, which effectively allows potential lower cost policyholders to not be required to help fund Obamacare policies, which in turn makes them more expensive to those seeking health insurance coverage through such a plan.

    But you raise a good point, but it should be rephrased to expose the truth of why many currently prefer their private health insurance: They have been fooled by a well-crafted and executed propaganda campaign by the health insurance industry about how much “choice” they have with private health insurance. David Doel, of The Rational National show, explains using coverage of a series of recent tweets by Wendell Potter, the former PR exec for Cigna.


     
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      limitles: people love to be hoodwinked
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

  8. #2008
    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    Cory Booker has dropped out, and the Washington Post leads with an headline about how “less diverse” the Dem presidential primary has become with him dropping out.

    Sen. Cory Booker exits the Democratic presidential primary, making the field less diverse
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...-less-diverse/

    FFS, people!!! Cory Booker is one of the biggest corporate-backed oreos in modern American politics! If Cornell West had been running and dropped out, this headline would have been legit. Hell! If I were Black, I’d be disappointed at that, because Brother West would have brought real diversity to the nomination race. But I’m gonna still love it when President-Elect Sanders invites Dr. West to be a White House advisor.

    [Cue dwai red repping me with his trademark “n-word lover” comment.]
    Last edited by MumblesBadly; 01-13-2020 at 11:45 AM.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

  9. #2009
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    More evidence of establishment media attempting to smear Bernie Sanders, along with a *very* bad move by Warren and her campaign to use that smear to boost their fundraising and position in the polls.



    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

  10. #2010
    Diamond TheXFactor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Cory Booker has dropped out, and the Washington Post leads with an headline about how “less diverse” the Dem presidential primary has become with him dropping out.

    Sen. Cory Booker exits the Democratic presidential primary, making the field less diverse
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...-less-diverse/
    Cory Booker's only qualification for running was being U.S. Senator and wasting huge amounts of money when he was mayor of Newark, New Jersey.

    Look at the bright side.
    He can still get a job at Facebook.



  11. #2011
    Platinum splitthis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    bernie's appeal to the forgotten middle to lower-middle class is actually similar to trump's message. i think he'd have a chance against trump, but he has to hedge on medicare for all.

    i still think running on taking away your private insurance in favor of government funded healthcare is too scary for most people. the average person is covered by insurance and likes it (rightly or wrongly), and will never dig deep and critically analyze (or even understand) the merits of his proposal. he needs to pivot to a public option like the other candidates with the unspoken goal being medicare for all down the road.
    yeah but

    The average bible thumping racist red nick doesn't think like you
    Got that right boy
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

  12. #2012
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by splitthis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post

    yeah but

    The average bible thumping racist red nick doesn't think like you
    Got that right boy
    OBAMACARE

    BOO

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    Last edited by limitles; 01-13-2020 at 12:27 PM.

  13. #2013
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    The Sanders/Warren feud is heating up. "Sources" leaked to CNN that in a 2018 meeting between Sanders and Warren, Sanders told Warren that a woman couldn't win. Sanders outright denied the claim, essentially calling the "sources" liars, and that the accusation is being made by people who weren't even in the room. Warren, instead of saying "of course that's not true", declined to comment on the story.

    Here's what I think is happening. Warren is gearing up to use this as an attack in the debate. Warren's people leaked this story to CNN the day before the debate, which is being hosted on CNN. Now CNN basically has to bring it up during the debate, and Warren can confirm that it's true and use it as an attack on Bernie. This is much better than her bringing it up on her own out of the blue. And how is Bernie going to respond? He can't accuse Warren of not being in the room. Will Bernie just call Warren a liar? Not exactly a great look. Progressives are supposed to #BelieveWomen after all.

    My guess as to what actually happened. Bernie didn't make a sexist comment but rather said something like it's more difficult for a woman to win, in an attempt to dissuade Warren from running. But Bernie will probably have difficulty spinning that, so he'll probably just deny it outright (which is what he's been doing).

    And once again the heat is being taken off the actual frontrunner, Biden. At this rate, Biden's gonna win Iowa and it could be a rather non-dramatic primary with Biden practically sweeping. If he wins Iowa, it's all over.

  14. #2014
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    more or less this is what i expect was said: "this country is fucking terrible and it would never elect a woman which is why hillary lost."


    the reason warren's camp would trot this out is because a script was released where the berniebros are basically describing warren to voters as "their second favorite candidate" which is being spun as a negative attack because (as mentioned) warren is panicking.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  15. #2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPIT this View Post
    The Sanders/Warren feud is heating up. "Sources" leaked to CNN that in a 2018 meeting between Sanders and Warren, Sanders told Warren that a woman couldn't win. Sanders outright denied the claim, essentially calling the "sources" liars, and that the accusation is being made by people who weren't even in the room. Warren, instead of saying "of course that's not true", declined to comment on the story.

    Here's what I think is happening. Warren is gearing up to use this as an attack in the debate. Warren's people leaked this story to CNN the day before the debate, which is being hosted on CNN. Now CNN basically has to bring it up during the debate, and Warren can confirm that it's true and use it as an attack on Bernie. This is much better than her bringing it up on her own out of the blue. And how is Bernie going to respond? He can't accuse Warren of not being in the room. Will Bernie just call Warren a liar? Not exactly a great look. Progressives are supposed to #BelieveWomen after all.

    My guess as to what actually happened. Bernie didn't make a sexist comment but rather said something like it's more difficult for a woman to win, in an attempt to dissuade Warren from running. But Bernie will probably have difficulty spinning that, so he'll probably just deny it outright (which is what he's been doing).

    And once again the heat is being taken off the actual frontrunner, Biden. At this rate, Biden's gonna win Iowa and it could be a rather non-dramatic primary with Biden practically sweeping. If he wins Iowa, it's all over.
    Biden being being a front runner is because he's the closest thing Democrats can come to being Republican.
    Who knows it may work in the Un United States but how proud are those who choose Biden as a leader?

  16. #2016
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    Woof. Iowa is 3 weeks out.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  17. #2017
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    The Left Doesn’t Want a Biden Nomination — But It’s Split on How to Stop Him

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...n?srnd=premium

    Progressive Democrats are growing increasingly concerned that their preferred presidential candidates Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders risk splitting the movement’s vote and handing the Democratic nomination to Joe Biden.

    The anxieties have led to calls by some for one of the two candidates to drop out before the March 3 “Super Tuesday” contests and endorse the other, in order to coalesce the left behind one standard-bearer. But others reject that approach and say both Sanders and Warren should stay in to amass delegates and join forces at the nominating convention in July.

    “A movement can’t have two leaders. There needs to be one going into Super Tuesday,” said Sean McElwee, a progressive organizer and co-founder of the research firm Data for Progress, who called for a pre-Super Tuesday winnowing to unify behind one candidate.

    Larry Cohen, a former union leader who chairs the pro-Sanders group Our Revolution, called that a “terrible strategy.” He wants Democrats to nominate Sanders or Warren over a moderate Democrat, but said both should continue to campaign through the primary calendar, rack up delegates, and contest the convention if needed.

    The dispute comes as Biden remains the front-runner, in part thanks to strong support from black voters who have picked the nominee in every Democratic primary since 1992. His enduring lead concerns progressives who view 2020 as a rare opportunity to redefine the party in their populist image after decades of nominating centrists like Barack Obama, John Kerry and both Bill and Hillary Clinton.

    Competitive Race
    Sanders and Warren round out the top three in national polls. Iowa, the first contest, is highly competitive — a poll released Friday by the Des Moines Register and CNN found Sanders leading the pack with Pete Buttigieg, Warren and Biden closely behind, but a separate survey published Monday by Monmouth showed Biden ahead of his rivals.

    And it’s not clear Sanders and Warren would team up. A longstanding nonaggression pact between the two appeared to fizzle over the weekend after Politico reported that Sanders volunteers were directed by the campaign to tell voters that Warren’s base is limited to upscale and educated people, to which Warren told reporters she’s “disappointed to hear that Bernie is sending his volunteers out to trash me.” Sanders blamed staff for the move.

    Recent polling by Morning Consult found that Warren is the top second-choice preference for Sanders voters nationally, and that Sanders is the top second-choice preference for Warren voters. But the survey showed that Biden would be the second choice for about one-fourth of each candidate’s supporters.

    Cohen argued that if Sanders and Warren combine for a majority of the pledged delegates they’ll have a persuasive argument at the July convention that one of the two movement progressives should be the nominee, even if Biden leads all other rivals in the delegate count.

    “I would totally oppose either one dropping out. It’d be a huge mistake,” Cohen said. “Their voters do not overlap — they’re not a single circle. There’s a huge number of voters who wouldn’t even vote for the other. So you need to maximize the elected delegates for the two candidates through June,” when the primaries finish.

    That’s easier said than done, because party rules say that if a candidate drops out, he or she can’t compel delegates to back their second choice. They become free agents.

    ‘Corporate Wing’
    The group Democracy For America is planning to launch a grassroots effort aimed at defeating what it calls “the corporate wing” of the Democratic Party and ensuring a Sanders or Warren nomination. The nightmare scenario for the left is that Buttigieg shines in the early states and blunts momentum for the progressives before they battle Biden in the critical March contests.

    “It’s especially important that we do everything we can, as the iterative contest goes on, for progressive voters to unite to defeat the corporate wing,” said Neil Sroka, a spokesman for Democracy For America.

    Democracy for America

    @DFAaction
    .@BernieSanders and @ewarren, you both are progressive champs & our movement needs to see you working together to defeat your corporate Dem opponents -- not attack each other.

    Progressives will win in 2020, but only if we don't let the corporate wing or Trump divide us. 🤝

    The battle within the party is unnerving Democratic leaders and strategists, whose overarching priority is to defeat President Donald Trump. But the internal divisions are born of a disagreement about how to win the presidency. The establishment wing says a moderate nominee is critical to attracting swing voters, while liberals say an insurgent with bold ideas is needed to inspire voters.

    Progressive voters are torn between Warren, the ex-professor and anti-Wall Street crusader known for her policy plans, and the 2016 runner-up and Franklin Delano Roosevelt acolyte who has been consistently promoting economic populism for three decades in Congress. While both are strong with “very liberal” voters, Warren performs better with older people and mainstream Democrats, while Sanders is stronger with younger voters and independents.

    People close to the Sanders and Warren campaigns say neither team has been thinking seriously about dropping out early, and that both are focused on winning Iowa and New Hampshire. The two campaigns are building grassroots operations across the country far beyond the early states, a sign that both are bruising for a long battle.

    It’s not clear either would exit and make way for the other in a hurry.

    “If both finish in the top three, neither is going to drop out and endorse the other” after the first two contests, said Brian Fallon, a former spokesman for Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign. “It’s pundit brain to think one of them would submit to the other in that scenario.”
    Even if Joe Biden gets more votes, Elizabeth Warren will give her delegates to Bernie Sanders which will give him the Democratic nomination for President.


  18. #2018
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    a strong case could be made that a lot of biden voters would vote for trump if warren or sanders won the democratic primary.

    however, no sanders or warren voters would vote for trump if biden won the democratic primary. they might stay home, but they wouldn't vote trump.

  19. #2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    a strong case could be made that a lot of biden voters would vote for trump if warren or sanders won the democratic primary.

    however, no sanders or warren voters would vote for trump if biden won the democratic primary. they might stay home, but they wouldn't vote trump.
    Right but the other than Biden voters won't stay home. There is a job to be done and anything but Trump is it

    Lose the battle, win the war

  20. #2020
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    also, supporters of other candidates like mayor pete or klobuchar might vote trump over bernie.

    warren would lose 50 states if she somehow won a brokered convention

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