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Thread: *** OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Race Thread ***

  1. #3361
    Diamond Tellafriend's Avatar
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    in our lifetimes there will finally come a point that an adult conversation will have to be had about taxes, expenditures, and entitlements. I'm afraid (b/c I'm certain) the answer will be more taxes on everything starting with pensions and 401(k)s. we can't tax our way out of any of this. and reducing SSRI to the rich won't make a dent in the real problem -- spending. but the last generation has created a dependent class which is only growing and therefore ain't going anywhere.

    my thought is there probably should be a wealth tax. not one that is punitive, just something to ease the pressure. to be effective it would have to be done in conjunction with reduced spending which I don't see; hence continued dysfunction. taxing income is the worst of all things to tax as it taxes people who are building, creating, and offering services and therefore expanding our economy, wealth, and comfort. but it is also the lowest hanging fruit and serves the duel purpose of keeping the masses beholden to the guvment from the cradle to the grave.

    anyway, there are no longer enough adults in the room left who have the will and intellect to fix any of this. our current predicament was predicted or at least warned of at our founding -- government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take everything which is right around the corner. what other ending is there when the majority of people are now takers and contribute little to nothing?


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      MumblesBadly: How

  2. #3362
    Diamond blake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellafriend View Post
    in our lifetimes there will finally come a point that an adult conversation will have to be had about taxes, expenditures, and entitlements. I'm afraid (b/c I'm certain) the answer will be more taxes on everything starting with pensions and 401(k)s. we can't tax our way out of any of this. and reducing SSRI to the rich won't make a dent in the real problem -- spending. but the last generation has created a dependent class which is only growing and therefore ain't going anywhere.

    my thought is there probably should be a wealth tax. not one that is punitive, just something to ease the pressure. to be effective it would have to be done in conjunction with reduced spending which I don't see; hence continued dysfunction. taxing income is the worst of all things to tax as it taxes people who are building, creating, and offering services and therefore expanding our economy, wealth, and comfort. but it is also the lowest hanging fruit and serves the duel purpose of keeping the masses beholden to the guvment from the cradle to the grave.

    anyway, there are no longer enough adults in the room left who have the will and intellect to fix any of this. our current predicament was predicted or at least warned of at our founding -- government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take everything which is right around the corner. what other ending is there when the majority of people are now takers and contribute little to nothing?


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    we're not going to get a handle on this until we get term limits for congress passed

  3. #3363
    Diamond Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Gay Pete telling all the other moderates to drop out is amazing. Walter is his sole supporter who doesn’t need to rock spf50 sun screen and he wants the other moderates to drop out of the democratic race. That’s impressive chutzpah.
    I would be ok with Bloomberg too. I love how he goes after Trump. But neither he nor Pete has much stage presence.

    I don't like his stop and frisk policy but I believe that someone who makes a mistake, who admits it and learns from it, should be cut some slack.

     
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      BCR: You will get a front row seat at either of those rallies. Bloomberg would also pay you $10k though

    SOBCHAK SECURITY 213-799-7798

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  4. #3364
    Diamond Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellafriend View Post
    in our lifetimes there will finally come a point that an adult conversation will have to be had about taxes, expenditures, and entitlements. I'm afraid (b/c I'm certain) the answer will be more taxes on everything starting with pensions and 401(k)s. we can't tax our way out of any of this. and reducing SSRI to the rich won't make a dent in the real problem -- spending. but the last generation has created a dependent class which is only growing and therefore ain't going anywhere.

    my thought is there probably should be a wealth tax. not one that is punitive, just something to ease the pressure. to be effective it would have to be done in conjunction with reduced spending which I don't see; hence continued dysfunction. taxing income is the worst of all things to tax as it taxes people who are building, creating, and offering services and therefore expanding our economy, wealth, and comfort. but it is also the lowest hanging fruit and serves the duel purpose of keeping the masses beholden to the guvment from the cradle to the grave.

    anyway, there are no longer enough adults in the room left who have the will and intellect to fix any of this. our current predicament was predicted or at least warned of at our founding -- government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take everything which is right around the corner. what other ending is there when the majority of people are now takers and contribute little to nothing?


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    Maybe we should start by not having a regressive tax system.

    SOBCHAK SECURITY 213-799-7798

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  5. #3365
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    bernies up like 5% on predictit in the last 48 hours.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  6. #3366
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    Just saw Drexel on CNN at the Bellagio caucus site. Looked like he was caucusing for Amy Klobuchar

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    I have a healthy respect for cycles. It never hurts to try to explain why we have a battle between two populists. Take a really long view for a moment then return to Twitter if you must.

    How do you answer the issue of jobs? Getting people to feel good about themselves.

    Your immigrant great grandparents came over from some famine ravaged country and their expectations were pretty modest. 3 meals and a roof.

    Maybe your grandparents wanted an education for their kids and a chance to compete with the families that had been here for generations.

    Unexpectedly and fortunately for us two world wars destroyed the industrial complex of our competitors. America became a global super power. We had unlimited numbers of jobs and opportunities.

    Our expectations are still at that level.

    Meanwhile, our global competitors have developed. Their expectations are where ours used to be, quite modest. If you’re Chinese being safe and well fed is a goal for most.

    The Millenials and younger flocking to old man Bernie is breathtaking. Their expectations aren’t what they were for my generation.

    Parenthetically: You know what astounds me? Millenials talk about retiring. It’s something we never thought about. They are already thinking about retiring from competition. Maybe this is a byproduct of the current wealth management hustle by the retail banks. I actually wonder if it’s diminished expectations. Anyway...

    So, is the strength of post war ‘Merica some kind of birth right or lock? Gonna be very interesting how this all plays out. However, just keep dismissing the signs like Trump and Bernie and hoping to return to a post war boom with a post war boomer like Bloomberg.

    Might work but even if it does you’re delaying modern realities.

    You can take some kind of false comfort in all 4 asset classes in a bubble manufactured by inorganic monetary policy. Trump is counting on it.

    Am I a socialist? Of course not. Am I interested in gaming which way the wind blows? You bet - and I do.

     
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      MumblesBadly: I agree with a lot you say here, but World War I didn’t much dent the industrial capacity of the US’ competitors. World War II on the other hand... totally.
    Last edited by Sanlmar; 02-22-2020 at 12:58 PM.

  8. #3368
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    bernies up like 5% on predictit in the last 48 hours.
    Makes sense.

    Nobody is willing to make a meaningful attack on him except occasionally Mayor Pete, and the media is leaving him alone.

    It's pretty amazing how his planned radical changes and holes in his ideas are being so gently handled. Instead everyone ganged up on Bloomberg, who was far less of a threat.

    So Bernie is going to be the nominee, everyone. Let that sink in.

     
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      MumblesBadly: Been trying to tell you this for months. How come you doubted the political foresight of the Mumbles?

  9. #3369
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Mostly absent from the discussion of Medicare For All is the fact that our care will get worse, not better.

    Many first-world countries with such socialized care, including Canada and the UK, have long wait times to see specialists or get non-emergency tests. That's absolutely awful.

    In the US, we take for granted the ability to get tests quickly and see specialists fairly quickly. Even the UK's own NHS site admits that the wait for specialists & tests is about 4 months.

    The US already has a doctor shortage which is worsening each year. Under a socialized system, long waits to get care will become immediate and commonplace.

    For some reason, none of Bernie's opponents are bringing this up. In fact, even Bernie himself isn't claiming our care will be better -- only that it will be accessible to all and supposedly cheaper (the cheaper part is BS, by the way).

    Oh, and what of the longer life expectancies in socialized medicine countries? That's not because of healthcare. It's because of lower rates of crime, drug abuse, and obesity. If you take out the deaths from violence, drug abuse, and obesity in all first world countries, the US has among the top life expectancies, and the best 5+-year cancer survival rate.

    I'm getting older. If I felt Medicare For All would make our system better and cheaper, I would be for it, even if it raised my taxes. It won't. It will be a disaster. Sadly, I think it's probably coming in the next 10 years, and possibly sooner.

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  11. #3371
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      Sanlmar: HOF I love a train wreck like everyone else. Now I gotta watch. FU dish

  12. #3372
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post
    complete losers
    Those are the rules in NV. Iowa does coin-flips, which seems dumber. The Nevada way should be the standard.

    Not entirely sure what your issue is. How would you break ties?

     
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      MumblesBadly: Rock-paper-scissors, of course.

  13. #3373
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPIT this View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post
    complete losers
    Those are the rules in NV. Iowa does coin-flips, which seems dumber. The Nevada way should be the standard.

    Not entirely sure what your issue is. How would you break ties?




    fkn moron, the joke is that they both pulled shit cards

  14. #3374
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SPIT this View Post
    Those are the rules in NV. Iowa does coin-flips, which seems dumber. The Nevada way should be the standard.

    Not entirely sure what your issue is. How would you break ties?




    fkn moron, the joke is that they both pulled shit cards
    What's wrong with a 3? I've won a lot of money with 33. Can be very profitable to set mine.

  15. #3375
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    Team Bernie pulls a 2c. Team Buttigieg pulls a 3s. And Team Trump pulls the instruction card you throw away

     
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      thesidedish: yup, following rules is for cucks

  16. #3376
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    What's going on with the whiteboard at this caucus site? "Joe Mama" "Poop". HOF
    Attached Images Attached Images  

     
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      duped_samaritan: lol

  17. #3377
    Gold MrTickle's Avatar
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    First time in history (in either party) that a candidate has won the popular vote in IA, NH and NV

  18. #3378
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    The culinary union membership sending the message that yeah, this health care kind of sucks anyway.

    Most of my buddies that work for large corporations with good paying jobs say how badly their health care sucks. Medical sales, banks, pharma companies even, it’s all the same story. Costs $800-$1200 a month out of paycheck. Large deductibles they rarely reach. It’s not hard to do the math.

    A whole lot of people saying I’m out $12k a year in premiums and $3k in deductibles. They’re sick of having to argue to get basic shit covered with insurance companies. There is a point where a 5% raise in taxes is better than $15K in health care costs. I did the math on tax raises v premiums and it felt like roughly $225k is where it gets murky as to where you’re better off with status quo. Most people don’t make $225k.

    I don’t think Bernie will win, but national health care is coming. Four months v 10 weeks for some test, which is what I’ve generally experienced, isn’t really the dealbreaker it once was

    Health care has been going downhill since mid 90s.

     
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      SPIT this: cogent
      
      MumblesBadly: The only thing that is likely to stop Bernie from winning is the coronavirus.

  19. #3379
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    The culinary union membership sending the message that yeah, this health care kind of sucks anyway.

    Most of my buddies that work for large corporations with good paying jobs say how badly their health care sucks. Medical sales, banks, pharma companies even, it’s all the same story. Costs $800-$1200 a month out of paycheck. Large deductibles they rarely reach. It’s not hard to do the math.

    A whole lot of people saying I’m out $12k a year in premiums and $3k in deductibles. They’re sick of having to argue to get basic shit covered with insurance companies. There is a point where a 5% raise in taxes is better than $15K in health care costs. I did the math on tax raises v premiums and it felt like roughly $225k is where it gets murky as to where you’re better off with status quo. Most people don’t make $225k.

    I don’t think Bernie will win, but national health care is coming. Four months v 10 weeks for some test, which is what I’ve generally experienced, isn’t really the dealbreaker it once was

    Health care has been going downhill since mid 90s.

    If you think it's bad now, wait til socialized medicine comes, and you're waiting 4 months for a specialist or MRI.

    But yes I agree it's coming, and I agree healthcare has gone downhill since the 90s (ignoring medical advances).

  20. #3380
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    warren just dropped from 6c to 3c on predictit and bernie just jumped another 3 cents.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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