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Thread: *** OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Race Thread ***

  1. #761
    Plutonium lol wow's Avatar
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    he also mixes the diet white powerade instead of the blue with vodka and weve literally tried to correct him on this multiple times tine come see us in the principles office

  2. #762
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    none of that is true.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  3. #763
    Plutonium lol wow's Avatar
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    its literally 100 percent verdad

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I don't know what Warren thinks she is doing with her "costs will go down" nonsense answer about Medicare for All.

    They keep asking her point blank if taxes will go up, and she just absolutely dodges the question every time. It's not like it's fooling anyone. We all know the answer. Even Bernie admits the answer, and the discussion kinda shuts down there.

    They keep going after Warren about this because she outright refuses to address it, and it just exposes that her "earnest, nerdy schoolmarm who wants to just solve problems" is mostly bullshit, and she's just as much of a shifty politician as the rest of them.

    She's running as the "more sensible, calmer, more practical Bernie Sanders", but the huge difference is that Bernie is honest about what he is, and she isn't.

    Hell, there are many who believe her far-left rhetoric is just pandering for the primary, and she will revert to centrism when in the general election.

    At this point, she might as well just come out and admit people's taxes will go up, and THEN try to make the point that it will save the middle class money overall. (I don't agree with that point, but at least she can try to claim that, and it's hard to conclusively disprove.)

    Her dodging of the question is kind of like when an actor won't answer questions regarding his sexual preference, and at that point everyone knows he's gay. If he's straight, he's always clarifying immediately. Same thing here. If you dodge the "will the taxes go up" question over and over, people know that the answer is YES, and that you're just being dishonest.

    Clearly this question isn't going away, so she's just fucking herself by continuing to dance around it.

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    Diamond mulva's Avatar
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    i hope the dems don't wise up and stop doing stupid shit and put yo gabba gabba in the lead. that would be troublesome for trumpy
    Quote Originally Posted by bottomset_69 View Post
    Johnny Manziel will be the 1st pick in the draft. I truly believe not only will Johnny Manziel be rookie of the year, quite possibly he will be MVP as his style will shock defensive coordinators. Manziel may only be 6 feet tall, but he has size 15 feet. And he has HUGE hands. I know some NFL scouts so I know what I am talking about.



  6. #766
    Platinum duped_samaritan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I don't know what Warren thinks she is doing with her "costs will go down" nonsense answer about Medicare for All.
    If she said "taxes will go up but your overall costs will go down because private insurance companies won't be taking billions out of what americans pay for healthcare", half the country will just hear her say "taxes will go up" over and over and over again.

  7. #767
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I don't know what Warren thinks she is doing with her "costs will go down" nonsense answer about Medicare for All.
    If she said "taxes will go up but your overall costs will go down because private insurance companies won't be taking billions out of what americans pay for healthcare", half the country will just hear her say "taxes will go up" over and over and over again.
    That also wouldn't be an accurate statement.

    Even Bernie's own report shows that, while private insurance companies do take billions in profits, that amounts to 0.6% of total healthcare expenditures.

    So cutting out the insurance company profits will do next to nothing for the average person.

    Same with cutting out insurance company expenditures such as advertising and lobbying. Drop in the bucket.

    However, you are correct that half the country will just hear "taxes will go up" and tune out everything else. That's why she's afraid to say it, but since it's become a point of repeated criticism where she ends up looking foolish and dishonest, she might as well come out and say it at this point.

    In Warren's defense, the alternative Democratic hybrid type solutions such as "Medicare for All Who Want It" are nonsense, and don't even make sense when you think about them. That's basically just proposing that the government get into the health insurance business. Most Democrats have no fucking clue when it comes to the true consequences of a socialized medicine system, especially one built on top of our already-dysfunctional for-profit system.

    For such a system to even have a snowball's chance in hell of not being a disaster, we would first need a huge influx of qualified doctors, immediate construction of new medical testing facilities with enough trained staff to fill them, a complete pricing restructure to pay doctors, labs, and test facilities more in line of what they get in other first world countries (better known as "much less"), and a general sign-on by the public that they will be agreeing to long wait times and denied tests/procedures for any non-emergency health issue.

    The last thing any Democrats should want would be a 2020 victory followed by a conversion into socialized medicine. It will be an epic failure, and Republicans will have a huge 2024 election basically just campaigning with, "Make Health Care Work Again".

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    Diamond TheXFactor's Avatar
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    The first thing "they" need to do about health care is to STOP allowing hospitals and pharmaceutical companies to rip you off.

    American hospitals are "allowed" to charge whatever the fuck they want for the same procedure. $10,000? $50,000? You don't have health insurance then that will be $90,000. Fuck you, fucking Motherfuckers.

    Then you got the fucking pharmaceutical companies that charge in America $1,000 but in Canada charge $50 for the exact same medicine. Enough, it's time to seize their fucking profits and force them to charge reasonable prices and stop fucking people over because they are greedy.



  9. #769
    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    OMG. He just mistakenly said he would eliminate the capital gains tax, and then said “no, I’d raise it to 39%!” And that isn’t “demonizing rich people?” Total bullshit, and I was leaning toward him before as the only sane candidate. I stand corrected.
    Separate from the issue of Biden showing his age-related mental deterioration, it makes total sense to tax capital gains the same as earned income after adjusting capital gains for inflation.

    P.S. In fact, because the unsystematic risk of financial assets can be diversified away, while that of human capital cannot, earned income should face a lower tax rate than inflation-adjusted capital gains of financial assets in order to put them in a comparable footing with respect to compensation for risk-bearing.
    Jayjami: Total bs, not even worth a response.

    Ignoring the issue of the ability of financial asset investors to diversify away unsystematic risk, please explain why inflation-adjusted capital gains should be taxed at a lower rate than earned income.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

  10. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I don't know what Warren thinks she is doing with her "costs will go down" nonsense answer about Medicare for All.

    They keep asking her point blank if taxes will go up, and she just absolutely dodges the question every time. It's not like it's fooling anyone. We all know the answer. Even Bernie admits the answer, and the discussion kinda shuts down there.

    They keep going after Warren about this because she outright refuses to address it, and it just exposes that her "earnest, nerdy schoolmarm who wants to just solve problems" is mostly bullshit, and she's just as much of a shifty politician as the rest of them.

    She's running as the "more sensible, calmer, more practical Bernie Sanders", but the huge difference is that Bernie is honest about what he is, and she isn't.

    Hell, there are many who believe her far-left rhetoric is just pandering for the primary, and she will revert to centrism when in the general election.

    At this point, she might as well just come out and admit people's taxes will go up, and THEN try to make the point that it will save the middle class money overall. (I don't agree with that point, but at least she can try to claim that, and it's hard to conclusively disprove.)

    Her dodging of the question is kind of like when an actor won't answer questions regarding his sexual preference, and at that point everyone knows he's gay. If he's straight, he's always clarifying immediately. Same thing here. If you dodge the "will the taxes go up" question over and over, people know that the answer is YES, and that you're just being dishonest.

    Clearly this question isn't going away, so she's just fucking herself by continuing to dance around it.
    She’s openly saying that she will use Bernie’s plan and Bernie is openly saying that his plan will raise the taxes of the middle class but she refuses to say it. Just a horrible political move that has no upside. Now this has become a huge issue and she looks dishonest and deceitful. Just another unnecessary, self-inflicted wound that benefits Trump.

  11. #771
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lol wow View Post
    but hey the weathers great and you make more money out here so you put up with it #shoutdemocrats its a fucking joke if you make less than 250k a year

    some blockchain-fintech soft bank offered me so much money to come aboard that i didnt think their business model could sustain it so i passed. its just fucking wild out there.

    pnw less so but its not like its going to be out here in ny, where tech wagers seriously are like 10-15% higher than they were in 2001. i work remote so i was able to keep my package intact when i moved but if i had to survive on nyc tech wages i would absolutely just start doing heroin constantly.
    First para is exactly what’s going on.

    My kid bounced from Zappos to some San Diego startup doing a food delivery to your seat app for sports stadiums for 8 months quit and literally just landed in Manhattan in another partially Amazon backed startup.

    She sells her car and all her stuff and parachutes into the city. Stayed with a $300k Bloomberg kid in a tower apt while she was looking for her own place.

    Her startup is doing an app that is so pointless and narrow that even she laughs. There is so much money chasing so few ideas. Investment capital has no place to go. You write that you didn’t think your suitor could sustain itself. That’s not how the kids think. It’s about the new experience. New group, new city. Vegan donut shop across the street.

    You talk to the kids and they have an almost apocalyptic view. It’s all about what you are doing now. The quality of your present experience. I came from a generation where you paid your dues and delayed gratification for tomorrow. They know tomorrow ain’t gonna be so great. They travel light, bank their cash and surf the moment.

    It is a crazy surreal time in our economy.

    So I have to disagree about the NYC wages. It appears this is exactly the place and time.

    Edit
    As an aside she was telling me about online delivery in the city and how low the odds are that you will actually receive what you order.

    There are multiple issues ... UPS skim seems like an employee benefit. She has some funny stories already.
    Last edited by Sanlmar; 10-16-2019 at 07:30 AM.

  12. #772
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post


    some blockchain-fintech soft bank offered me so much money to come aboard that i didnt think their business model could sustain it so i passed. its just fucking wild out there.

    pnw less so but its not like its going to be out here in ny, where tech wagers seriously are like 10-15% higher than they were in 2001. i work remote so i was able to keep my package intact when i moved but if i had to survive on nyc tech wages i would absolutely just start doing heroin constantly.
    First para is exactly what’s going on.

    My kid bounced from Zappos to some San Diego startup doing a food delivery to your seat app for sports stadiums for 8 months quit and literally just landed in Manhattan in another partially Amazon backed startup.

    She sells her car and all her stuff and parachutes into the city. Stayed with a $300k Bloomberg kid in a tower apt while she was looking for her own place.

    Her startup is doing an app that is so pointless and narrow that even she laughs. You write that you didn’t think your suitor could sustain itself. That’s not how the kids think. It’s about the new experience. New group, new city. Vegan donut shop across the street.

    You talk to the kids and they have an almost apocalyptic view. It’s all about what you are doing now. The quality of your present experience. I came from a generation where you paid your dues and delayed gratification for tomorrow. They know tomorrow ain’t gonna be so great. They travel light, bank their cash and surf the moment.

    It is a crazy surreal time in our economy.

    So I have to disagree about the NYC wages. It appears this is exactly the place and time.

    yeah but im not really talking about outlier startups with amazon backing. thats fringe. google also pays enormous salaries for their nyc campus. but the mean salaries here have failed to scale with real estate prices, perhaps because real estate prices here were laughable when one could afford a 2br apartment in SF while on welfare. there has always been this awful 'well im just going to grind it out for the priv of [cynical description of nyc living goes here]'.

    it does sound like your daughter is tending to her career garden perfectly, btw. hopefully she isnt pricing herself out of her next hop but there are worse problems to have.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  13. #773
    Platinum Jayjami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OSA View Post
    I love how giddy sonatine and the like are in this thread, as if any of these shmedricks have a chance come 2020.

    Keep knocking our President, instead of propping yourselves as a better option. Worked great in 2016 for ya.

    What ever happened to Gary Johnson? According to some political quizzes, he was the most aligned to my ideas last election
    If Pete Buttguy was 20 years younger, I bet he’d have your vote!

  14. #774
    Platinum Jayjami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post

    Separate from the issue of Biden showing his age-related mental deterioration, it makes total sense to tax capital gains the same as earned income after adjusting capital gains for inflation.

    P.S. In fact, because the unsystematic risk of financial assets can be diversified away, while that of human capital cannot, earned income should face a lower tax rate than inflation-adjusted capital gains of financial assets in order to put them in a comparable footing with respect to compensation for risk-bearing.
    Jayjami: Total bs, not even worth a response.

    Ignoring the issue of the ability of financial asset investors to diversify away unsystematic risk, please explain why inflation-adjusted capital gains should be taxed at a lower rate than earned income.
    A 39% capital gains rate would discourage new investments in the stock market and more importantly, discourage movement of capital within the marketplace. Let’s say I owned IBM for 30 years, not happy with my returns, wanted to invest in a startup called Apple. If I had to pay 39% taxes, I would be less inclined to sell my IBM stock. Take macro economics 101 and get back to me if you don’t understand what a disaster this would be to the economy.

  15. #775
    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post

    Jayjami: Total bs, not even worth a response.

    Ignoring the issue of the ability of financial asset investors to diversify away unsystematic risk, please explain why inflation-adjusted capital gains should be taxed at a lower rate than earned income.
    A 39% capital gains rate would discourage new investments in the stock market and more importantly, discourage movement of capital within the marketplace. Let’s say I owned IBM for 30 years, not happy with my returns, wanted to invest in a startup called Apple. If I had to pay 39% taxes, I would be less inclined to sell my IBM stock. Take macro economics 101 and get back to me if you don’t understand what a disaster this would be to the economy.
    LOL you telling me to take an intro course to macroeconomics course to learn about that argument...

    You numbskull! I took a slew of graduate economics courses on my way to earning two post graduate degrees specializing in finance. And when I repeatedly heard that supply side argument from finance professors that you simplistically parrot here, I, too, accepted it as economic gospel for many years.

    Only later when considering the interplay between economics and politics that such an argument ignores, did I realize that when the tax code gives preferential treatment of capital gains versus earned income that over time the wealth and political power it can garner ends up becoming increasingly skewed towards those who don’t have to work for a living. Meaning, it promotes ever-increasing wealth inequality. And that leads to the wealthy garnering an ever increasing proportion of political power to the detriment of most everyone else.

    Which is exactly what has happened in the US over the past four decades with the onset of the Reagan Revolution and the Supreme Court’s Citizens United blessing of unlimited campaign spending by superficially “unaffiliated” “legal persons”, and quite anonymously at that. And is a huge reason why a 6-six bankrupt fake billionaire sociopathic narcissistic reality TV star was able to demagogue his way into first capturing the GOP nomination for president AND then defeat the corporately-compromised establishment Democratic Party candidate in the general election.

    So, yeah. We’ve tried that tax policy and it has brought us Trump and the utter debasing of the GOP as it keeps itself tied to Trump and his trampling of the Constitution in order to keep from losing relevance with the voters.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

  16. #776
    Platinum Jayjami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    A 39% capital gains rate would discourage new investments in the stock market and more importantly, discourage movement of capital within the marketplace. Let’s say I owned IBM for 30 years, not happy with my returns, wanted to invest in a startup called Apple. If I had to pay 39% taxes, I would be less inclined to sell my IBM stock. Take macro economics 101 and get back to me if you don’t understand what a disaster this would be to the economy.
    LOL you telling me to take an intro course to macroeconomics course to learn about that argument...

    You numbskull! I took a slew of graduate economics courses on my way to earning two post graduate degrees specializing in finance. And when I repeatedly heard that supply side argument from finance professors that you simplistically parrot here, I, too, accepted it as economic gospel for many years.

    Only later when considering the interplay between economics and politics that such an argument ignores, did I realize that when the tax code gives preferential treatment of capital gains versus earned income that over time the wealth and political power it can garner ends up becoming increasingly skewed towards those who don’t have to work for a living. Meaning, it promotes ever-increasing wealth inequality. And that leads to the wealthy garnering an ever increasing proportion of political power to the detriment of most everyone else.

    Which is exactly what has happened in the US over the past four decades with the onset of the Reagan Revolution and the Supreme Court’s Citizens United blessing of unlimited campaign spending by superficially “unaffiliated” “legal persons”, and quite anonymously at that. And is a huge reason why a 6-six bankrupt fake billionaire sociopathic narcissistic reality TV star was able to demagogue his way into first capturing the GOP nomination for president AND then defeat the corporately-compromised establishment Democratic Party candidate in the general election.

    So, yeah. We’ve tried that tax policy and it has brought us Trump and the utter debasing of the GOP as it keeps itself tied to Trump and his trampling of the Constitution in order to keep from losing relevance with the voters.
    Just because you use a lot of big words doesn’t make your argument any more compelling. Here’s how you become a success in America. Work your ass off, save your money and invest it for your retirement so you don’t have to be a WalMart greeter at age 70. Don’t blow it on internet poker, cocaine and tranny prostitutes like Jewdonk. You essentially want to penalize people who “did the right thing” and didn’t rely on the government to take care of them in their old age.

  17. #777
    Plutonium lol wow's Avatar
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    There's nothing worse than faggots like mumbles thinking they know how to spend other people's money

  18. #778
    Plutonium lol wow's Avatar
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    Oh wait sorry this was a two parter you actually get to watch democrats squander it all in Cali lets give them more money you fucking idiot

  19. #779
    Plutonium lol wow's Avatar
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    LIKE THEY HAVE LITERALLY BEEN TURNING OFF THE FUCKING POWER HERE TO FIGHT FIRES CUZ LOL

  20. #780
    Diamond Pro Zap_the_Fractions_Giraffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post
    If she said "taxes will go up but your overall costs will go down because private insurance companies won't be taking billions out of what americans pay for healthcare", half the country will just hear her say "taxes will go up" over and over and over again.
    yeah because only complete nerds go to the doctor but everyone pays taxes

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