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Thread: *** OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Race Thread ***

  1. #521
    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    A more moderate version of Warren would actually be a tough opponent for Trump.

    The actual version, who is too obsessed with free stuff and other far left proposals, is going to be a tough sell in those same swing states Trump grabbed in 2016.

    I watched the entire debate. I heard very little disagreement on that stage, aside from a few attacks on Biden. Everyone was afraid to stray too much from the far left narrative, even the candidates who aren't actually far left. It's like they haven't learned anything from the failures of 2016. Swing voters do not relate well to the current far left, and they find the hyper-focus on identity politics and free stuff to be extremely off-putting.

    This reminds me a bit of 2010, when Republicans basically made the same mistake, attempting to out-right-wing each other, and sending some awful candidates to very winnable Senate races. The result? Republicans tossed away five Senate seats they easily could have won that year. How nice would those be to have right now? I complained a lot at the time about that, and lamented the rise of the thankfully-now-inconsequential "Tea Party".

    Now Dems are making the same mistake, and it might just earn Trump a second term.
    Here you go again with a pre-Trumpian political outlook that helped the establishment Democrats lose the presidency to a demagogic pathologically lying racist. And it’s why most of the GOP establishment also ended up getting sidelined by Trump. Such “middle of the road” political strategy won’t work for the Democrats in the current era.

    More importantly, the Democrats can’t win the president in 2020 with any kind of political momentum to then take back control of the Senate by 2022 if their underlying strategy is to be Republicans-Lite. They have to adopt underlying policy objectives that will highly energize the huge percentage of voters who are disgusted with the unstated pandering by corporatists Dems like Hillary Clinton to the corporations and the wealthy. Trump’s election signaled a sea-change in the sentiment in a broad spectrum of voters regarding how the US economy is rigged in favor of the wealthy, and the Dems will be marginally relevant if they ignore that sentiment.

     
    Comments
      
      nightmarefish: So you hate people because they’re marginal tax rate isn’t as high as you’d like? That’s tax laws, has nothing to do with them you pathetic human.
      
      limitles: fuck this idiot
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

  2. #522
    Diamond Tellafriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellafriend View Post



    More preciously, 48% of the populace that pays nothing in but takes something out would vote against anyone with an (R) next to their name.
    This is a common theme/misconception for many right wingers it seems. Where do you come up with this number?
    Who are these 48% that pay nothing yet take something?


    Individual income taxes are the federal government’s single biggest revenue source. In fiscal year 2018, which ended Sept. 30, the individual income tax is expected to bring in roughly $1.7 trillion, or about half of all federal revenues, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

    If past statistics can offer any guidance, in 2016, $1.44 trillion income taxes were paid by 140.9 million taxpayers reporting a total of $10.2 trillion in adjusted gross income, according to data recently released by the Internal Revenue Services.


    Bloomberg looked into the 2016 individual returns data in detail for some additional insights illustrated in the charts below:

    The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (37.3 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (30.5 percent).
    The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of total individual income taxes.
    Who Pays (and doesn't pay) Income Taxes

    Source: IRS

    In other words, the bottom 50 percent paid 3 percent. Which small percentile of tax payers also paid 3 percent or more? You might have guessed it. It is the top 0.001%, or about 1,400 taxpayers. That group alone paid 3.25 percent of all income taxes. In 2001, the bottom 50 percent paid nearly 5 percent whereas the top 0.001 percent of filers paid 2.3 percent of income taxes.


    http://https://www.bloomberg.com/new...-taxes-in-2016

  3. #523
    Diamond BCR's Avatar
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    The entire labyrinth of unethical medical billing is always, at its core, a way for doctors to make more money. I agree it’s corrupt and idiotic. If there was even a way to eliminate it, and let’s get real, when have we ever eliminated a lobby like the AMA when it comes to something of that nature. That’s akin to taking on the NRA over handguns, forget AR-15s.

    They’re never going to be down for anything that reduces that maze. And it would be a straight dem vote to do it as the AMA is as right as the bar associations are left, and the dems will simply go single payer if they ever have that level of control, so it’s kind of a theoretical discussion.

    The arguments against single payer systems is wait lists and that qualified individuals decide not to opt for medicine as a career. If they’re making less through reduction of billing practices or Medicare for all, it’s still going to reduce their salaries. So it’s essential to do that stuff even in a single payer system for tax and efficiency reasons, but as far as the arguments regarding care and quality, fixing the issue druffs way or medicare for all will have the same impact. It would be more efficient druffs way, but it’s never happening.

  4. #524
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellafriend View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post

    This is a common theme/misconception for many right wingers it seems. Where do you come up with this number?
    Who are these 48% that pay nothing yet take something?


    Individual income taxes are the federal government’s single biggest revenue source. In fiscal year 2018, which ended Sept. 30, the individual income tax is expected to bring in roughly $1.7 trillion, or about half of all federal revenues, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

    If past statistics can offer any guidance, in 2016, $1.44 trillion income taxes were paid by 140.9 million taxpayers reporting a total of $10.2 trillion in adjusted gross income, according to data recently released by the Internal Revenue Services.


    Bloomberg looked into the 2016 individual returns data in detail for some additional insights illustrated in the charts below:

    The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (37.3 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (30.5 percent).
    The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of total individual income taxes.
    Who Pays (and doesn't pay) Income Taxes

    Source: IRS

    In other words, the bottom 50 percent paid 3 percent. Which small percentile of tax payers also paid 3 percent or more? You might have guessed it. It is the top 0.001%, or about 1,400 taxpayers. That group alone paid 3.25 percent of all income taxes. In 2001, the bottom 50 percent paid nearly 5 percent whereas the top 0.001 percent of filers paid 2.3 percent of income taxes.

    http://https://www.bloomberg.com/new...-taxes-in-2016
    If you think the rich are hard done by in the de-regulated States of America then ask them to try
    their game elsewhere. The rich can afford to put their boys in office, ensuring tax cuts are applied to them, never mind the bailouts when then things fail.

    "Estimates of the number of people in the United States living in poverty are nuanced. One organization estimated that in 2015, 13.5% of Americans (43.1 million) lived in poverty.[3] Yet other scholars underscore the number of people in the United States living in "near-poverty," putting the number at around 100 million, or nearly a third of the U.S. population.[4] Starting in the 1930s, relative poverty rates have consistently exceeded those of other wealthy nations".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

    So you bristle at the fact that possibly a third of your population are not pulling their weight?

    Who cares about what the top 1% pays? They have no worries regarding health or home, two basics
    the richest country in the world has trouble with

     
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      nightmarefish: Pathetic cry baby alcoholic liberal.
    Last edited by limitles; 09-15-2019 at 04:23 PM.

  5. #525
    Diamond Tellafriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellafriend View Post



    Individual income taxes are the federal government’s single biggest revenue source. In fiscal year 2018, which ended Sept. 30, the individual income tax is expected to bring in roughly $1.7 trillion, or about half of all federal revenues, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

    If past statistics can offer any guidance, in 2016, $1.44 trillion income taxes were paid by 140.9 million taxpayers reporting a total of $10.2 trillion in adjusted gross income, according to data recently released by the Internal Revenue Services.


    Bloomberg looked into the 2016 individual returns data in detail for some additional insights illustrated in the charts below:

    The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (37.3 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (30.5 percent).
    The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of total individual income taxes.
    Who Pays (and doesn't pay) Income Taxes

    Source: IRS

    In other words, the bottom 50 percent paid 3 percent. Which small percentile of tax payers also paid 3 percent or more? You might have guessed it. It is the top 0.001%, or about 1,400 taxpayers. That group alone paid 3.25 percent of all income taxes. In 2001, the bottom 50 percent paid nearly 5 percent whereas the top 0.001 percent of filers paid 2.3 percent of income taxes.

    http://https://www.bloomberg.com/new...-taxes-in-2016
    If you think the rich are hard done by in the de-regulated States of America then ask them to try
    their game elsewhere. The rich can afford to put their boys in office, ensuring tax cuts are applied to them, never mind the bailouts when then things fail.

    "Estimates of the number of people in the United States living in poverty are nuanced. One organization estimated that in 2015, 13.5% of Americans (43.1 million) lived in poverty.[3] Yet other scholars underscore the number of people in the United States living in "near-poverty," putting the number at around 100 million, or nearly a third of the U.S. population.[4] Starting in the 1930s, relative poverty rates have consistently exceeded those of other wealthy nations".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

    So you bristle at the fact that possibly a third of your population are not pulling their weight?

    Who cares about what the top 1% pays? They have no worries regarding health or home, two basics
    the richest country in the world has trouble with

    You are mentally ill. You know what to do.

  6. #526
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellafriend View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post

    If you think the rich are hard done by in the de-regulated States of America then ask them to try
    their game elsewhere. The rich can afford to put their boys in office, ensuring tax cuts are applied to them, never mind the bailouts when then things fail.

    "Estimates of the number of people in the United States living in poverty are nuanced. One organization estimated that in 2015, 13.5% of Americans (43.1 million) lived in poverty.[3] Yet other scholars underscore the number of people in the United States living in "near-poverty," putting the number at around 100 million, or nearly a third of the U.S. population.[4] Starting in the 1930s, relative poverty rates have consistently exceeded those of other wealthy nations".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

    So you bristle at the fact that possibly a third of your population are not pulling their weight?

    Who cares about what the top 1% pays? They have no worries regarding health or home, two basics
    the richest country in the world has trouble with

    You are mentally ill. You know what to do.
    You lose your shit pretty fast. One challenge and you are out.
    And believe me I know what to do and it may involve you

     
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      nightmarefish: Pathetic cry baby alcoholic liberal.

  7. #527
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    If you spend your days hating rich people just because they’re rich you’re pathetic IMO.

     
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      MumblesBadly: Hedge fund managers face lower marginal income tax rates than 80% of the middle class, nitwit, and the GOP isn’t even happy enough with that.
      
      limitles: moron

  8. #528
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightmarefish View Post
    If you spend your days hating rich people just because they’re rich you’re pathetic IMO.
    You are so stupid.. I can't believe you show your face.

    It's not a hate against the most wealthy. It's a hate against inequality. You dumb fuck. I would even
    support schooling for your dumb fuck ancestry.

    Are you serious, that you are in college at this time?
    It sounds like you're in middle school

    get the fuck off idiot....tie your shoe laces.....I said it before
    pack your bags and get the fuck out


    dumb,dumb, dumb,dumb
    You make Druff look smart

     
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      nightmarefish: Pathetic cry baby liberal.
    Last edited by limitles; 09-15-2019 at 07:23 PM.

  9. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nightmarefish View Post
    If you spend your days hating rich people just because they’re rich you’re pathetic IMO.
    You are so stupid.. I can't believe you show your face.

    It's not a hate against the most wealthy. It's a hate against inequality. You dumb fuck. I would even
    support schooling for your dumb fuck ancestry.

    Are you serious, that you are in college at this time?
    It sounds like you're in middle school

    get the fuck off you idiot....tie your shoe laces.....I doubt it
    In college? Are you fuckin retarded? College is several years in the rear view. That’s why I get $2k a paycheck taken out for taxes and still have owe more to the IRS when tax season comes while the bottom third pay nothing in income tax since they get a big fat refund.

    And crying that not everyone earns the same, pathetic. Go drink your sorrows away you jelly clown. How about taking steps to improve your own situation instead of crying about the system as if it was impossible for you to do better in life.

    Once again, you’re pathetic.
    Last edited by nightmarefish; 09-15-2019 at 07:32 PM.

  10. #530
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightmarefish View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post

    You are so stupid.. I can't believe you show your face.

    It's not a hate against the most wealthy. It's a hate against inequality. You dumb fuck. I would even
    support schooling for your dumb fuck ancestry.

    Are you serious, that you are in college at this time?
    It sounds like you're in middle school

    get the fuck off you idiot....tie your shoe laces.....I doubt it
    In college? Are you fuckin retarded? College is several years in the rear view. That’s why I get $2k a paycheck taken out for taxes and still have owe more to the IRS when tax season comes while the bottom third pay nothing in income tax since they get a big fat refund.

    And crying that not everyone earns the same, pathetic. Go drink your sorrows away you jelly clown. How about takes steps to improve your own situation instead of crying about the system as if it was impossible for you to do better in life.

    Once again, you’re pathetic.
    You idiot I have been everywhere you will go....I have more money than I need and then some.......but
    I have learned that money in the bank or anywhere does constitute pleasure.

    Seriously. You can have the fattest bank account and be the poorest person on your block.

    I swear this is no lie. I have come to grips with it recently. No amount of money
    can replace what you truly need. I can't be specific, but it's family.
    I can hop a flight to Honolulu tomorrow and it will mean nothing by comparison.

    Now that I mention it and knowing I have alienated all family members I put the call out
    to Sheboone...I will pay your fare to Hawaii and we will laugh out loud

    c'mon dude

    Can you believe it? I have asked sheboone to accompany me on trips to Hawaii and New York City
    all expenses paid and I get nada

    and technically I'm not even a serial killer
    Last edited by limitles; 09-15-2019 at 07:42 PM.

  11. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nightmarefish View Post

    In college? Are you fuckin retarded? College is several years in the rear view. That’s why I get $2k a paycheck taken out for taxes and still have owe more to the IRS when tax season comes while the bottom third pay nothing in income tax since they get a big fat refund.

    And crying that not everyone earns the same, pathetic. Go drink your sorrows away you jelly clown. How about takes steps to improve your own situation instead of crying about the system as if it was impossible for you to do better in life.

    Once again, you’re pathetic.
    You idiot I have been everywhere you will go....I have more money than I need and then some.......but
    I have learned that money in the bank or anywhere does constitute pleasure.

    Seriously. You can have the fattest bank account and be the poorest person on your block.

    I swear this is no lie. I have come to grips with it recently. No amount of money
    can replace what you truly need. I can't be specific, but it's family.
    I can hop a flight to Honolulu tomorrow and it will mean nothing by comparison.
    Didn’t you just get a loan for $80?

    Good for you money isn’t important so quit crying that some people have more then.

    Pathetic cry baby alcoholic liberal.

  12. #532
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    A more moderate version of Warren would actually be a tough opponent for Trump.

    The actual version, who is too obsessed with free stuff and other far left proposals, is going to be a tough sell in those same swing states Trump grabbed in 2016.

    I watched the entire debate. I heard very little disagreement on that stage, aside from a few attacks on Biden. Everyone was afraid to stray too much from the far left narrative, even the candidates who aren't actually far left. It's like they haven't learned anything from the failures of 2016. Swing voters do not relate well to the current far left, and they find the hyper-focus on identity politics and free stuff to be extremely off-putting.

    This reminds me a bit of 2010, when Republicans basically made the same mistake, attempting to out-right-wing each other, and sending some awful candidates to very winnable Senate races. The result? Republicans tossed away five Senate seats they easily could have won that year. How nice would those be to have right now? I complained a lot at the time about that, and lamented the rise of the thankfully-now-inconsequential "Tea Party".

    Now Dems are making the same mistake, and it might just earn Trump a second term.
    Which candidates do you consider far left?
    I know that the most leftist candidates in the US seem centrist to a Euro leftist like you, but Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are both very far left, and neither are really aligned with the American mainstream.

    Beto is also pretty far left, but he's so weird that he's difficult to pigeonhole. He's got no shot at this point, so he's not worth talking about. All he's done is help Republican voter turnout with his "we're coming for your guns" speech, which is just going to hurt his party.

  13. #533
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightmarefish View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post

    You idiot I have been everywhere you will go....I have more money than I need and then some.......but
    I have learned that money in the bank or anywhere does constitute pleasure.

    Seriously. You can have the fattest bank account and be the poorest person on your block.

    I swear this is no lie. I have come to grips with it recently. No amount of money
    can replace what you truly need. I can't be specific, but it's family.
    I can hop a flight to Honolulu tomorrow and it will mean nothing by comparison.
    Didn’t you just get a loan for $80?

    Good for you money isn’t important so quit crying that some people have more then.

    Pathetic cry baby alcoholic liberal.
    Look I'm humoring you. The loan.....that was a joke......alright

    hahaha yeah I needed and or got a loan for eighty dollars.
    what a thick piece of shit
    Second sentence....."some people have more then"

    You idiot. don't ever come at me if you can't master the English
    language ......then does not equal than....fucking moron

    THEN AND THAN ARE NOT TYPOS....YOU ARE A SIXTH GRADER
    DUMMY
    Last edited by limitles; 09-15-2019 at 08:06 PM.

  14. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nightmarefish View Post

    Didn’t you just get a loan for $80?

    Good for you money isn’t important so quit crying that some people have more then.

    Pathetic cry baby alcoholic liberal.
    Look I'm humoring you. The loan.....that was a joke......alright

    Second sentence....."some people have more then"

    You idiot. don't ever come at me if you can't master the English
    language ......then does not equal than....fucking moron
    Pointing out typos is the first sign you have lost.

    Pathetic cry baby alcoholic liberal.

  15. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post

    Which candidates do you consider far left?
    I know that the most leftist candidates in the US seem centrist to a Euro leftist like you, but Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are both very far left, and neither are really aligned with the American mainstream.

    Beto is also pretty far left, but he's so weird that he's difficult to pigeonhole. He's got no shot at this point, so he's not worth talking about. All he's done is help Republican voter turnout with his "we're coming for your guns" speech, which is just going to hurt his party.
    You categorizing candidates as far, medium or extreme left is laughable. Only you care
    about these titles...only you spaceman

    HEY FRANK OXYCONTIN IS A PRODUCT..NO WAY FOR IT TO DECLARE BANKRUPTCY
    IDIOT

    NOBODY MAKES IT THROUGH COLLEGE NOT KNOWING THEN FROM THAN
    UNLESS YOU WENT TO SCHOOL IN THE FUCKING SHITHOLE COUNTRY OF THE U.S.A.
    YOU BACK WATER CRAWFISH EATING MORONS

    AMERICAN IDIOTS SHOULD BE A SERIES...JUST ELECT TRUMP AGAIN YOU FUCKING IDIOTS

    YOU ARE DUMB, STUPID, THICK....THERE IS NO WAY AROUND IT.....YOU CAN'T TELL
    CAUSE YOU ARE THICK.....STUPID CAN'T BE FIXED....JUST LIKE UGLY WHICH I'M SURE
    YOU ARE.....CAN'T FIX STUPID. SO ELECT ANOTHER STUPIE TO MAKE YOU FEEL BETTER

    AS AN EXAMPLE FRANK SEEMS TO BE A NICE GUY BUT HE IS BLATENTLY IGNORANT.
    MAYBE HE WAS DROPPED AS A BABY, I DON'T KNOW BUT HE IS AS THICK AS
    NIGHTMARENIGHTY AND THEN SOME


    NIGHTMARENIGHTY

    IS THERE A SPELLING BADGE FOR THE SLOWER STUDENTS?
    WOULD YOU LIKE FRIES WITH THAT?

    WHAT IS THE IQ OF THIS COUNTRY...GOOD LORD THEY DON'T KNOW
    NO NOTHIN





     
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      Zap_the_Fractions_Giraffe: *blatantly
    Last edited by limitles; 09-15-2019 at 08:52 PM.

  16. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    I know that the most leftist candidates in the US seem centrist to a Euro leftist like you, but Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are both very far left, and neither are really aligned with the American mainstream.

    Beto is also pretty far left, but he's so weird that he's difficult to pigeonhole. He's got no shot at this point, so he's not worth talking about. All he's done is help Republican voter turnout with his "we're coming for your guns" speech, which is just going to hurt his party.
    You categorizing candidates as far, medium or extreme left is laughable. Only you care
    about these titles...only you spaceman
    Another clueless statement.

  17. #537
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    The entire labyrinth of unethical medical billing is always, at its core, a way for doctors to make more money. I agree it’s corrupt and idiotic. If there was even a way to eliminate it, and let’s get real, when have we ever eliminated a lobby like the AMA when it comes to something of that nature. That’s akin to taking on the NRA over handguns, forget AR-15s.

    They’re never going to be down for anything that reduces that maze. And it would be a straight dem vote to do it as the AMA is as right as the bar associations are left, and the dems will simply go single payer if they ever have that level of control, so it’s kind of a theoretical discussion.

    The arguments against single payer systems is wait lists and that qualified individuals decide not to opt for medicine as a career. If they’re making less through reduction of billing practices or Medicare for all, it’s still going to reduce their salaries. So it’s essential to do that stuff even in a single payer system for tax and efficiency reasons, but as far as the arguments regarding care and quality, fixing the issue druffs way or medicare for all will have the same impact. It would be more efficient druffs way, but it’s never happening.
    Well I'm glad I mostly have your support on this issue, but I will say that the AMA could easily go for a teardown/rebuild of the medical billing mess if it were to also introduce free market competition.

    Doctors aren't particularly happy with the situation right now, either. Yes, they're gaming it to make the maximum money, but they're doing it because they feel like they've been held hostage by insurance companies. In turn, insurance companies feel like doctors are screwing them (which they often are), and that patients sign up for healthcare only when they know a big procedure might be needed soon (which they often do). I knew someone who ultimately died of cancer, but became aware that they probably had cancer before the official diagnosis came down. They rushed to sign up for insurance, got approved (this was pre-Obamacare), and got like $700k worth of medical care before ultimately dying from that cancer.

    Not that I'm defending insurance companies, either. They also have their own level of both incompetence and corruption, some of it due to the belief that they have to be shitty back in order to fight shitty behavior by patients and doctors. When the smoke clears, often it's the honest man getting screwed, and that's a tragedy.

    Anyway, doctors are consolidated into groups these days in order to fight what they perceive to be underpayments from insurance companies. This also lessens choice for the patient (you basically have to be careful not to alienate that office if it includes every single specialist in the area), and quality of care tends to go down in these mega-groups.

    If a free market healthcare model is introduced, where doctors can charge what they want, and insurance pays a flat amount for each service/procedure/test, then the best/most popular doctors could charge well above that and still get patients, while other doctors will be happy to take insurance-only pricing. Then there would be some in the middle, who would charge a little above insurance pricing, but low enough out-of-pocket to where typical families can still afford them.

    This system would also somewhat remove the incentive for doctors to rush through patients, as the better doctors could see fewer patients by simply slowing down and having a higher price to begin with.

    If such a system existed, I would utilize a mixture of the expensive, middle-ground, and cheap doctors. If I just needed a blood pressure prescription, I would see the cheapest doctor possible. If I had a weird set of symptoms which were likely difficult to correctly diagnose, I would see the best doctor possible, even if he was expensive. If it was something where I felt I needed someone competent, but not the very best, I'd go to a middle-of-the-road doctor (such as a well physical).

    Last year, I would have paid a lot of money to have seen one of the top ENT doctors and one of the top psychiatrists, but it didn't work that way. I had to accept who was able to take me. I was even willing to pay out-of-pocket to an out-of-network doctor if he/she were really good, but the simple fact was that the availability was minimal. After a lot of searching and many hours of research, I ended up finding a decent psychiatrist (whom my insurance took, fortunately), and finally found a good ENT who could take me, but he was 55 miles away and there was a lot of traffic in that direction during business hours.

    Anyway, I know I'm rambling here, but the healthcare solution is so much more complicated than either party is currently making it out to be, and it's tilting to hear both sides pretend they have a solution.

    At some point the Dems will have majorities in all three branches, socialized medicine will pass, it will be an epic fail, Republicans will capitalize upon it and win subsequent elections, and then it will be repealed. Then at some point after that, some real reform MIGHT happen. The problem is that few politicians even understand what really needs to be done.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Pretty good Shapiro analysis of the debate


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    At some point the Dems will have majorities in all three branches, socialized medicine will pass, it will be an epic fail, Republicans will capitalize upon it and win subsequent elections, and then it will be repealed.
    once the government gives out free stuff, it will never end.

    trump actually ran on repealing and replacing obamacare, had a republican congress and senate as well as a conservative supreme court, and still couldn't get rid of it.

    you would need such a fail that it would threaten the existence of the country itself (like a venezuela situation) before single payer would get repealed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    At some point the Dems will have majorities in all three branches, socialized medicine will pass, it will be an epic fail, Republicans will capitalize upon it and win subsequent elections, and then it will be repealed.
    once the government gives out free stuff, it will never end.
    Like a free wall?

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