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Thread: *** OFFICIAL 2020 Democratic Presidential Nomination Race Thread ***

  1. #481
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Biden laughably failed to defend attacks on Obamacare -- basically what he supports as his health care plan -- when his opponents were claiming that his insurance plan "leaves 10 million Americans not covered". What? Obamacare guarantees acceptance regardless of preexisting conditions, and also subsidizes healthcare (to the point of premiums being free) for low and lower-middle class Americans. So yes, his plan does cover everyone who puts out the most minimal effort to sign up. Sleepy Joe didn't articulate this and just uttered 1-liners like a dope.


    The federal subsidies for a Obamacare plan issued by an private health insurance company are not sufficient enough to make health insurance affordable for millions of the working poor and lower middle class. That’s why the ACA also included the option for states to opt into expanding Medicaid to include individuals and families making too much income to qualify for pre-ACA Medicare but too little to afford a private Obamacare plan. And lots of “red” states refuse to accept expanded Medicare, leaving those folks out in the lurch re not being able to afford health care insurance.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ured-obamacare
    Then this could be tweaked to where these gaps could be covered. Not that I support this fully (the ACA is a disaster and needs to be torn down and replaced), but this isn't really a reason throw up your hands and replace ACA with socialized medicine.

    BTW, you just heard one of the "working poor" on PFA Radio last night who has a free ACA plan. That would be one Ken Scalir. So it's BS to say that the "working poor" are left out. Honestly, when you cut through the BS of that Vox article, the real issue of uninsured comes from either people voluntarily choosing to skip having insurance (especially young people), and people who actually CAN afford the premiums based upon their income, but spend their money unwisely and then cant pay the premiums. But at some point, personal responsibility really needs to kick in.

    I realize it's more complicated than that and there are some tweaks necessary to get more people covered, but honestly this isn't the major problem with the ACA. The ACA sucks because it's poorly written, it's based upon faulty economics, and most of the good doctors won't take it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPIT this View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post
    im obv a hater but how bad are these candidates. its Hillary's fault really. what we're seeing now is who should have been running in 2016 if Hillary didn't bulldoze out the field 8 years in advance. they are running nothing but standard politician trash. yang is the best option up there
    Wait, I like Amy Klobuchar
    Yeah, she's actually not bad. She has no chance, but she's the best one of the bunch. It's hilarious watching the more left candidates treat her like she's the insane one for not parroting their extreme views and plans.

    Yang is amusing in that he only seems to be running for President so he can become a celebrity and forever become known as the "I want to give you $1000" guy. He almost has this grin when he speaks, like he knows that he's not taking any of this seriously.

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    How could there be any type of health ins after Trump and the gop just gave the super wealthy a trillion dollar tax cut?

    The country can't afford health ins for the poor the 1% needed more than they already have

    an extra trilly for the rich is just what the country needed fuck the people dying in the steets and dying early because they can't afford to see a doctor

     
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      MumblesBadly: Also makes for shorter wait times at the doctors for ordinary folks like Druff who have an Obamacare plan. #IGotMineToughLuckOnYou

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SPIT this View Post
    Wait, I like Amy Klobuchar
    Yeah, she's actually not bad. She has no chance, but she's the best one of the bunch. It's hilarious watching the more left candidates treat her like she's the insane one for not parroting their extreme views and plans.

    Yang is amusing in that he only seems to be running for President so he can become a celebrity and forever become known as the "I want to give you $1000" guy. He almost has this grin when he speaks, like he knows that he's not taking any of this seriously.
    tulsi didn't even make the last debate cause liberals seem to hate her but she's clearly the best democrat running

     
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      tony bagadonuts:

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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    Yeah, she's actually not bad. She has no chance, but she's the best one of the bunch. It's hilarious watching the more left candidates treat her like she's the insane one for not parroting their extreme views and plans.

    Yang is amusing in that he only seems to be running for President so he can become a celebrity and forever become known as the "I want to give you $1000" guy. He almost has this grin when he speaks, like he knows that he's not taking any of this seriously.
    tulsi didn't even make the last debate cause liberals seem to hate her but she's clearly the best democrat running
    Saw her on fox earlier complaining about DNC rigging the debates. She'll probably make the next one (NYTimes/CNN moderators) since they think it's a good idea to have more people in the Nov debate than last night. I think they'd be better off having down to 5 or 6 by then.

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    Tulsi is cool with Assad mowing down his own people and is generally very weak in terms of foreign policy, which supposedly is her strength given her background.

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    Diamond blake's Avatar
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    he's not one of my top choices but this impressed me


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      MumblesBadly: A must-have for home defense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by big dick View Post
    How could there be any type of health ins after Trump and the gop just gave the super wealthy a trillion dollar tax cut?

    The country can't afford health ins for the poor the 1% needed more than they already have

    an extra trilly for the rich is just what the country needed fuck the people dying in the steets and dying early because they can't afford to see a doctor
    One is not related to the other. The healthcare crisis is one of ongoing super-high costs, lack of transparency, inefficiency, doctor shortages, and a super broken billing system.

    One trillion dollars could not come close to paying for socialized medicine. BTW, the poor actually get healthcare now, and have for awhile. That's not the issue at hand.

    The biggest FAIL in all of these Democratic proposals is the fact that they don't want to address the underlying major issues with our healthcare, and instead just want to shift around who pays for it. That's going to compound the problem. It's like having some major disease, and instead of working to cure it, you simply ask your dad to start paying your rent. That's not going to make you get healthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by big dick View Post
    How could there be any type of health ins after Trump and the gop just gave the super wealthy a trillion dollar tax cut?

    The country can't afford health ins for the poor the 1% needed more than they already have

    an extra trilly for the rich is just what the country needed fuck the people dying in the steets and dying early because they can't afford to see a doctor
    One is not related to the other. The healthcare crisis is one of ongoing super-high costs, lack of transparency, inefficiency, doctor shortages, and a super broken billing system.

    One trillion dollars could not come close to paying for socialized medicine. BTW, the poor actually get healthcare now, and have for awhile. That's not the issue at hand.

    The biggest FAIL in all of these Democratic proposals is the fact that they don't want to address the underlying major issues with our healthcare, and instead just want to shift around who pays for it. That's going to compound the problem. It's like having some major disease, and instead of working to cure it, you simply ask your dad to start paying your rent. That's not going to make you get healthy.
    All good points with an emphasis on doctor shortages.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Watching the debate, it just underscores for me that Democrats are extremely out of touch regarding the solution to our problems.

    Some examples:

    PROBLEM: Healthcare is way more expensive per capita in the US than any other country in the word.

    DEMOCRATS' SOLUTION: Raise taxes on a ton of people and corporations, and have the government foot the entire bill. Don't bother addressing costs. Assume that the removal of insurance companies will save a lot of money (even though it won't).

    ACTUAL SOLUTION: Thoroughly investigate the reasons for the high costs, eliminate those factors, introduce free market competition, disincentivize waste. At the same time, make sure low and semi-low income Americans have continued access to healthcare.



    PROBLEM: Black men are disproportionately in prison in the US.

    DEMOCRATS' SOLUTION: Obviously this is due to systemic racism, and black people aren't committing crimes at a higher rate than other races. Put more restrictions on police and lighten sentencing, and basically assume that most cops are racist.

    ACTUAL SOLUTION: Realize that, yes, black men are committing a lot more crime per capita than men of other races. Investigate the societal reasons for this, and attempt to tackle these problems. Get the bad apples out of low-income neighborhoods via longer sentences, while attempting to increase opportunities for everyone else there.



    PROBLEM: The country needs immigration reform.

    DEMOCRATS' SOLUTION: Immigration is great! After all, almost all of our families were immigrants at one time, lol! Therefore, let pretty much anyone in who claims "asylum", and don't deport people who are already here illegally.

    ACTUAL SOLUTION: Reform legal immigration. Strengthen border to prevent illegal immigration, as this is unfair to everyone trying to come here legally and doing it the right way. Understand that, while Trump exaggerates the danger of illegal immigration, it is indeed a burden on our country and our society.



    PROBLEM: College is too expensive, and students end up with a lot of debt which they struggle to pay during young adulthood.

    DEMOCRATS' SOLUTION: Forgive all student debt. Screw everyone who was responsible and actually paid off their debt, even if they just paid it off very recently. Make all college free. Government foots bill. Raise taxes on "the wealthy" and corporations to cover the cost.

    ACTUAL SOLUTION: Address the skyrocketing cost of attending college, which has increased at breakneck speed despite there being no good reason for it. College tuition is now about 9x what it was 30 years ago, despite inflation only being about 2x during that period. Force an audit on all public colleges which will address why inflation-adjusted college costs have gone up by almost 5x in 30 years.


    Notice that most of these Democratic solutions are based upon the idea that some group of people are being victimized, and we need to base our laws upon addressing this supposed victimization. Then we're just supposed to open our pocketbooks to pay for these super-expensive solutions, and just keep raising them taxes on the rich if we need more money, right?

    It's all nonsense. Healthcare needs cost reform. People who commit crimes should serve an appropriate prison sentence, regardless of the color of their skin or the racial makeup of the prison population. Illegal immigration is a problem and needs to be addressed with a fair and logical solution, not an emotional one. College tuition has escalated to ridiculous levels due to schools gouging students (and the state) because people keep paying for it, and nobody's stopping them.

    Democrats tend to feel too much and think too little. Policy borne from emotion is rarely good policy. It's easy to say things like, "Everyone needs healthcare! The cops are racist! Everyone should be able to attend college without student debt!", until you stop and think about realistic solutions for these issues, and blindly throwing tax dollars at the problem is rarely the answer.

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    Platinum splitthis's Avatar
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    This is all a big waste of time, Trump will continue by a landslide.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Watching the debate, it just underscores for me that Democrats are extremely out of touch regarding the solution to our problems.

    Some examples:

    PROBLEM: Healthcare is way more expensive per capita in the US than any other country in the word.

    DEMOCRATS' SOLUTION: Raise taxes on a ton of people and corporations, and have the government foot the entire bill. Don't bother addressing costs. Assume that the removal of insurance companies will save a lot of money (even though it won't).

    ACTUAL SOLUTION: Thoroughly investigate the reasons for the high costs, eliminate those factors, introduce free market competition, disincentivize waste. At the same time, make sure low and semi-low income Americans have continued access to healthcare.
    i think the medicare for all advocates would tell you it will be real easy to control costs once private insurance companies are gone and doctors have no choice but to accept what the government will pay.

    that's one of the reasons that bernie and warren don't want a public option

     
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      MumblesBadly: Bingo!

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    of course, they also believe getting rid of the insurance companies would save a ton of money assuming that the government is halfway competent. i'm not saying i necessarily buy this, but that's the argument

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Watching the debate, it just underscores for me that Democrats are extremely out of touch regarding the solution to our problems.

    Some examples:

    PROBLEM: Healthcare is way more expensive per capita in the US than any other country in the word.

    DEMOCRATS' SOLUTION: Raise taxes on a ton of people and corporations, and have the government foot the entire bill. Don't bother addressing costs. Assume that the removal of insurance companies will save a lot of money (even though it won't).

    ACTUAL SOLUTION: Thoroughly investigate the reasons for the high costs, eliminate those factors, introduce free market competition, disincentivize waste. At the same time, make sure low and semi-low income Americans have continued access to healthcare.



    PROBLEM: Black men are disproportionately in prison in the US.

    DEMOCRATS' SOLUTION: Obviously this is due to systemic racism, and black people aren't committing crimes at a higher rate than other races. Put more restrictions on police and lighten sentencing, and basically assume that most cops are racist.

    ACTUAL SOLUTION: Realize that, yes, black men are committing a lot more crime per capita than men of other races. Investigate the societal reasons for this, and attempt to tackle these problems. Get the bad apples out of low-income neighborhoods via longer sentences, while attempting to increase opportunities for everyone else there.



    PROBLEM: The country needs immigration reform.

    DEMOCRATS' SOLUTION: Immigration is great! After all, almost all of our families were immigrants at one time, lol! Therefore, let pretty much anyone in who claims "asylum", and don't deport people who are already here illegally.

    ACTUAL SOLUTION: Reform legal immigration. Strengthen border to prevent illegal immigration, as this is unfair to everyone trying to come here legally and doing it the right way. Understand that, while Trump exaggerates the danger of illegal immigration, it is indeed a burden on our country and our society.



    PROBLEM: College is too expensive, and students end up with a lot of debt which they struggle to pay during young adulthood.

    DEMOCRATS' SOLUTION: Forgive all student debt. Screw everyone who was responsible and actually paid off their debt, even if they just paid it off very recently. Make all college free. Government foots bill. Raise taxes on "the wealthy" and corporations to cover the cost.

    ACTUAL SOLUTION: Address the skyrocketing cost of attending college, which has increased at breakneck speed despite there being no good reason for it. College tuition is now about 9x what it was 30 years ago, despite inflation only being about 2x during that period. Force an audit on all public colleges which will address why inflation-adjusted college costs have gone up by almost 5x in 30 years.


    Notice that most of these Democratic solutions are based upon the idea that some group of people are being victimized, and we need to base our laws upon addressing this supposed victimization. Then we're just supposed to open our pocketbooks to pay for these super-expensive solutions, and just keep raising them taxes on the rich if we need more money, right?

    It's all nonsense. Healthcare needs cost reform. People who commit crimes should serve an appropriate prison sentence, regardless of the color of their skin or the racial makeup of the prison population. Illegal immigration is a problem and needs to be addressed with a fair and logical solution, not an emotional one. College tuition has escalated to ridiculous levels due to schools gouging students (and the state) because people keep paying for it, and nobody's stopping them.

    Democrats tend to feel too much and think too little. Policy borne from emotion is rarely good policy. It's easy to say things like, "Everyone needs healthcare! The cops are racist! Everyone should be able to attend college without student debt!", until you stop and think about realistic solutions for these issues, and blindly throwing tax dollars at the problem is rarely the answer.

    Another point regarding tuition is that when we were in school, there were TA’s and such, but almost all instructors and professors were tenured. They were lifetime lobs that were highly paid. Now it seems like most of the staff is some type of temp hire that might take a decade to get hired full time, if ever, and at a lower wage.

    It’s similar to medicine in many ways. Both have skyrocketed beyond any rational inflation, while many of your doctor visits and many of your instructors at colleges are physician assistants or crna’s or a grad student. When I was in school most of my instructors were PHDs and occasionally a TA would come in to simply assist on a test day or handle something minor.

    Medicine was the same. It was a nurse taking vitals and some info and then straight to the doctor. Now many offices the lesser educated staff do all the work and the doctors sign off on scripts and kind of oversee a patient rather than be completely involved. This is most true in any emergency medicine setting.

    I keep wondering why the costs are skyrocketing in both those fields beyond greed given so much of the work is being done by far lesser paid professionals. In education I assume it’s because they are being subsidized less as so manny states are broke, but it’s true of private schools also, but to what degree I don’t know. I just know both those professions treat us like payday loan borrowers and there isn’t much to do about it beyond take it. At least the person taking out a payday loan has fucked himself up. There are no other options in medicine and education. Both parties are in the pocket of these industries and never seem to offer any solution that’s significant, and eventually the pendulum will swing and bring about a drastic change because no one acted in a manner to truly halt the ridiculous inflation.
    Last edited by BCR; 09-14-2019 at 04:01 AM.

  16. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post

    Another point regarding tuition is that when we were in school, there were TA’s and such, but almost all instructors and professors were tenured. They were lifetime lobs that were highly paid. Now it seems like most of the staff is some type of temp hire that might take a decade to get hired full time, if ever, and at a lower wage.

    It’s similar to medicine in many ways. Both have skyrocketed beyond any rational inflation, while many of your doctor visits and many of your instructors at colleges are physician assistants or crna’s or a grad student. When I was in school most of my instructors were PHDs and occasionally a TA would come in to simply assist on a test day or handle something minor.

    Medicine was the same. It was a nurse taking vitals and some info and then straight to the doctor. Now many offices the lesser educated staff do all the work and the doctors sign off on scripts and kind of oversee a patient rather than be completely involved. This is most true in any emergency medicine setting.

    I keep wondering why the costs are skyrocketing in both those fields beyond greed given so much of the work is being done by far lesser paid professionals. In education I assume it’s because they are being subsidized less as so manny states are broke, but it’s true of private schools also, but to what degree I don’t know. I just know both those professions treat us like payday loan borrowers and there isn’t much to do about it beyond take it. At least the person taking out a payday loan has fucked himself up. There are no other options in medicine and education. Both parties are in the pocket of these industries and never seem to offer any solution that’s significant, and eventually the pendulum will swing and bring about a drastic change because no one acted in a manner to truly halt the ridiculous inflation.

    All of this in my experience is true, which then further begs the question of why prices have skyrocketed.

  17. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Watching the debate, it just underscores for me that Democrats are extremely out of touch regarding the solution to our problems.

    Some examples:

    PROBLEM: Healthcare is way more expensive per capita in the US than any other country in the word.

    DEMOCRATS' SOLUTION: Raise taxes on a ton of people and corporations, and have the government foot the entire bill. Don't bother addressing costs. Assume that the removal of insurance companies will save a lot of money (even though it won't).

    ACTUAL SOLUTION: Thoroughly investigate the reasons for the high costs, eliminate those factors, introduce free market competition, disincentivize waste. At the same time, make sure low and semi-low income Americans have continued access to healthcare.
    You can't be serious. The reason for higher costs are already known. Doctors/hospitals can more or less charge what the market will allow. There are no real controls. You already have free a market system but because they are not selling Ho Ho's the number of providers is limited. This takes away the benefits of free market competition.

     
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      MumblesBadly: Spot on! The American Medical Association is very effective in limiting the supply of new doctors in the US.

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    i find yang both incredibly relatable and somehow alarming all at once and then someone described him as a libertarian and i was like ohhhhhhhhhhhhh.. oh well
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    i find yang both incredibly relatable and somehow alarming all at once and then someone described him as a libertarian and i was like ohhhhhhhhhhhhh.. oh well
    I don’t think he’s libertarian, but he’s definitely the most right wing politician I’ve ever had a soft spot for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    he's not one of my top choices but this impressed me

    Beto writing his own opposition’s negative ads for them.

     
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      MumblesBadly: Pretty much

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