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Thread: Police brutality allegations in Glendale, Arizona

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    Police brutality allegations in Glendale, Arizona

    On July 26, 2017, in Glendale, Arizona, officer Matt Schneider and his partner approached the car of Johnny Wheatcroft and his family in a motel parking lot.

    It is unclear why they approached the vehicle, but Wheatcroft seemed to be acting a bit erratically, though not totally out of control.

    When he wasn't responding to orders very well, either Scheider or his partner said, "Looks like he's going to fight", Schneider grabbed his arm, and everything fell apart from there.

    Schneider appeared to twist Wheatcroft's arm, yelled out, and then Schneider tased him 11 different times, including a tase in the testicles at the very end when his pants were either intentionally pulled down or had come down from the struggle.

    Schneider also threatened at the end that he would start tasing him again if he didn't "shut up".

    During the entire struggle, Schneider said something about Wheatcroft's wife hitting his partner in the head, and ordered her arrested.

    The initial 3-minute bodycam video looked really, really bad for Schneider.

    Another version was released after that showing the initial confrontation, and also another camera angle shows Wheatcroft's wife throwing an object at Scheider's partner's head during the struggle, knocking the officer unconscious.

    Here is the narrated, updated version, with some parts edited out:



    Here is the initial raw 3-minute clip, not containing the original confrontation:



    Meth was also found in the car, explaining why Wheatcroft both was acting erratically and nervous about the entire situation.

    ABC15 in Arizona started to investigate the matter, and found that Officer Schneider had repeated disciplinary issues in the department, including after this incident in 2018.

    It is unclear why Schneider was still on the force, given all of his issues.

    The police department and city of Glendale appeared to mostly cover this incident up, only suspending Schneider for 3 days. Wheatcroft, who claimed he spent months in jail over this incident for "resisting arrest", has filed a lawsuit against the police department and city of Glendale.

    https://www.abc15.com/news/local-new...ons-discipline


    Everyone involved is white, so there's no racial element to this.

    Despite occurring over 18 months ago, this is only getting mainstream attention recently.

    The truth is that officers like Matt Schneider are the real problem regarding police brutality in this country.

    There are a small percentage of police officers with a bad disciplinary history, who repeatedly use excessive force, and use their badge to bully people.

    Police departments need to commit to more aggressively remove these bad apples, and in exchange, the public needs to let normal officers do their jobs without constant second-guessing, unless blatant evidence shows otherwise.

    The real problem with police brutality in America doesn't come from militarized gear/weapons they use, nor does it come from racism. It comes from a few assholes who should have been off the force long ago.

     
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      SysOp: Shocked you're defending the police here. you're almost always pro police brutality

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    On a side note, when encountering an aggressive officer like Schneider, it's idiotic to fight or refuse to follow instructions. That will get you hurt or killed.

    I encountered a guy like this during a traffic stop in 1994, where I was falsely accused of being on drugs. It was in an area with heavy drug use, and I was a young, skinny male, so I fit the profile. However, I was not acting erratically, nor was I driving like someone on drugs. I accidentally cut off the officer in a mini-mall parking lot, and that's what sent him into the rage.

    I kept calm and didn't let the situation escalate, so it never turned into anything terrible. The only thing I regret was not looking at his name on his badge and reporting the incident later.

    Every time I get pulled over, I keep my hands on the steering wheel, respond clearly to every question, and move very slowly (and only when asked). I also never argue or create a confrontation.

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    drk stars oath breaking brother is this true?

     
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      SysOp: drk star's scumbag brother never honors his oath, and you know this Man
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Why don’t abusive fuckups like this cop not get bounced from their jobs? Because police unions in the US are *very* strong.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Why don’t abusive fuckups like this cop not get bounced from their jobs? Because police unions in the US are *very* strong.
    Yes, that's the reform we need.

     
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      big dick: fuck off

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Why don’t abusive fuckups like this cop not get bounced from their jobs? Because police unions in the US are *very* strong.
    Yes, that's the reform we need.
    Glad you are seeing the light about this matter.

    And here is a “biased liberal media” article from 2014 that discusses the matter.

    How Police Unions and Arbitrators Keep Abusive Cops on the Street
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...street/383258/
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    Yes, that's the reform we need.
    Glad you are seeing the light about this matter.

    And here is a “biased liberal media” article from 2014 that discusses the matter.

    How Police Unions and Arbitrators Keep Abusive Cops on the Street
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...street/383258/
    Its a 2 headed coin. Police in this country are definitely heavy handed. That being said, similar police heavy handedness (and in many cases much worse) has been the standard in pretty much every human society that has ever existed. This is because it is an effective strategy on the whole, although obviously some people are going to be unfairly victimized by it.

    It is not clear that a kindler, gentler police force will be able to effectively do their job. Some people point to how policing functions in Northern and Western European democracies as a standard for the policing we should aspire to. I am not sure those are good models, because those societies generally have much less violence and crime. Most of the countries that have similar crime and violence statistics as the US correspondingly have a more criminal, violent police force.

    I have made this argument before, but IMO policing is a product of the system it operates in, and you can't really change policing in a vacuum. You have to operate at the systemic level. If our crime and violence levels plummeted to those seen in Sweden or Japan, I have no doubt our policing would change accordingly. I just dont think you can have the latter without the former.

    I am just guessing so I may be completely wrong, but as far as crime and violence levels, I am guessing the US is much more similar to Russia than to Sweden. And I am guessing Russian police heavy handedness is correspondingly more similar to that seen in the US. Maybe Mr. Tickle, who lives in Russia, could comment whether this conjecture is accurate or not.

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    The problem is that people are erroneously equating police brutality to aggressive policing and police militarization. Those are NOT the same.

    The US is unusual because it is relatively violent despite being a first world country. Thus, crime and punishment solutions which work or somewhat work in other first word countries will not be successful here. There are various societal reasons why the US is violent, none of which are easy to solve, and none of which are likely to be significantly reduced any time soon.

    An aggressive and highly present police force to basically take no crap from the criminal element is essential. Look at how that tactic cleaned up Times Square, for example, which went from notoriously dangerous to extremely safe.

    However, at the same time, there are certain assholes in the police force like the officer depicted in these videos, and they often victimize innocent or mostly innocent citizens with excessive force and brutality. These type of officers are NOT beneficial to society in any way. They need to be identified and eradicated.

    Fortunately, an officer rarely just wakes up one day and decides to be brutal. Usually it is quite easy to identify from an officer's history whether he is a problem or not. Most officers have a clean or almost-clean disciplinary record, while the problem ones usually have a very spotty record. Unfortunately, police unions enable these problem officers to have countless chances, and to stay on the force, despite being clearly unfit to do so.

    Believe it or not, I feel that a large key to fixing society's crime woes AND our police brutality woes is quite similar: Get rid of the small percentage of people who are bad apples, and everything else will dramatically improve.

    Remove the top 5% of problem officers from police departments, and police brutality will massively plummet.

    Remove the most dangerous 5% of residents from a high-crime neighborhood, and the crime rate will plummet.

    The above two should be our objectives.

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    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post

    Glad you are seeing the light about this matter.

    And here is a “biased liberal media” article from 2014 that discusses the matter.

    How Police Unions and Arbitrators Keep Abusive Cops on the Street
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...street/383258/
    Its a 2 headed coin. Police in this country are definitely heavy handed. That being said, similar police heavy handedness (and in many cases much worse) has been the standard in pretty much every human society that has ever existed. This is because it is an effective strategy on the whole, although obviously some people are going to be unfairly victimized by it.

    It is not clear that a kindler, gentler police force will be able to effectively do their job. Some people point to how policing functions in Northern and Western European democracies as a standard for the policing we should aspire to. I am not sure those are good models, because those societies generally have much less violence and crime. Most of the countries that have similar crime and violence statistics as the US correspondingly have a more criminal, violent police force.

    I have made this argument before, but IMO policing is a product of the system it operates in, and you can't really change policing in a vacuum. You have to operate at the systemic level. If our crime and violence levels plummeted to those seen in Sweden or Japan, I have no doubt our policing would change accordingly. I just dont think you can have the latter without the former.

    I am just guessing so I may be completely wrong, but as far as crime and violence levels, I am guessing the US is much more similar to Russia than to Sweden. And I am guessing Russian police heavy handedness is correspondingly more similar to that seen in the US. Maybe Mr. Tickle, who lives in Russia, could comment whether this conjecture is accurate or not.
    the reason some countries have kinder and gentler police is because the forces known to cause crime are human hardship. this hardship comes in many forms but let’s just say the worse your conditions the more likely you are to entertain desperate measures

    a have/have not society is the underlying reason behind crime, especially drug related crime

    countries with less violent police forces are also those who care
    for their people through intelligent social programs

     
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      MumblesBadly: :this

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    Les, do you know that Canada is super particular who they even let visit the country?

    They turn away people at the border who have single misdemeanor convictions for things like shoplifting, even if they were 8-9 years ago.

    Clearly your own country understands the value of keeping criminals out of the population, even temporarily, and they take it to an extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Les, do you know that Canada is super particular who they even let visit the country?

    They turn away people at the border who have single misdemeanor convictions for things like shoplifting, even if they were 8-9 years ago.

    Clearly your own country understands the value of keeping criminals out of the population, even temporarily, and they take it to an extreme.
    please stay on topic
    police brutality comes from dealing with brutal people
    brutal people come from brutal/substandard conditions
    one feeds the other

     
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      MumblesBadly: Not according to folks who believe that it’s due to bad genes. But we won’t mention who here might be prejudiced that way.

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    The thing that piss's me off is these huge lawsuits are paid by the state.

    Cops should be held responsible and forced to have insurance.
    Everytime they're disciplined their premium goes up. Further they should be held personally responsible for the first $100k of any payout.

    Gaurantee these sort of things would not happen so frequently.

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    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
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    This is only going to get worse, IMO, mainly because who in their right mind even wants to be a cop anymore? They are not recruiting the best of the best from society here. There will be even more mentally unstable meatheads with no other viable career getting into the forces as the years pass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    This is only going to get worse, IMO, mainly because who in their right mind even wants to be a cop anymore? They are not recruiting the best of the best from society here. There will be even more mentally unstable meatheads with no other viable career getting into the forces as the years pass.
    Actually, In blue states it is kind of going the other way and they are doing a lot of affirmative action hiring of overweight black and Latino women. Ironically, this might be better. We have so much surveillance now it might almost be better to have passive, ineffectual police that let criminals do whatever they want in the moment; and then to use surveillance to identify and catch them down the line.

    In the end run might be better outcomes than hero cops full of testosterone going in guns blazing.

    Of course you will still need a small number of effective special unit guys to catch the bad guys in their girlfriend or moms house a week later. So will always be a place for some small number of “hardcore, trigger happy” cops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    This is only going to get worse, IMO, mainly because who in their right mind even wants to be a cop anymore? They are not recruiting the best of the best from society here. There will be even more mentally unstable meatheads with no other viable career getting into the forces as the years pass.
    There are still good folks joining polices over here, but the system has a long way to go reformwise to routinely route out the abusive assholes. And first we need to get more conservatives like Druff on board with libertarians and progressives towards reforming policing in the US.

    One step we can take on a national level is repealing the federal grants for domestic police forces get military equipment on a use-or-lose basis, as that encourages reckless use of such equipment with unnecessary SWAT raids on suspects, and increaingly innocent people.

    Another is ending the War on Drugs, as that is often used as a pretext for conducting such raids on people in their homes, as well as encourages corruption among police to further their careers, and sometimes personally enrich themselves while working with drug dealers.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    This is only going to get worse, IMO, mainly because who in their right mind even wants to be a cop anymore? They are not recruiting the best of the best from society here. There will be even more mentally unstable meatheads with no other viable career getting into the forces as the years pass.
    There are still good folks joining polices over here, but the system has a long way to go reformwise to routinely route out the abusive assholes. And first we need to get more conservatives like Druff on board with libertarians and progressives towards reforming policing in the US.

    One step we can take on a national level is repealing the federal grants for domestic police forces get military equipment on a use-or-lose basis, as that encourages reckless use of such equipment with unnecessary SWAT raids on suspects, and increaingly innocent people.

    Another is ending the War on Drugs, as that is often used as a pretext for conducting such raids on people in their homes, as well as encourages corruption among police to further their careers, and sometimes personally enrich themselves while working with drug dealers.
    That sounds like the recipe for giving total control of the streets to Mexican cartels.

    But maybe that is the future of America, especially in blue states with a lot of recent immigrants. Just a have and have nots situation. Rich people living on the hills in gated communities with heavy policing presence keeping them safe and secure, and the drug cartels running the slums where 90+% of the people live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post

    There are still good folks joining polices over here, but the system has a long way to go reformwise to routinely route out the abusive assholes. And first we need to get more conservatives like Druff on board with libertarians and progressives towards reforming policing in the US.

    One step we can take on a national level is repealing the federal grants for domestic police forces get military equipment on a use-or-lose basis, as that encourages reckless use of such equipment with unnecessary SWAT raids on suspects, and increaingly innocent people.

    Another is ending the War on Drugs, as that is often used as a pretext for conducting such raids on people in their homes, as well as encourages corruption among police to further their careers, and sometimes personally enrich themselves while working with drug dealers.
    That sounds like the recipe for giving total control of the streets to Mexican cartels.

    But maybe that is the future of America, especially in blue states with a lot of recent immigrants. Just a have and have nots situation. Rich people living on the hills in gated communities with heavy policing presence keeping them safe and secure, and the drug cartels running the slums where 90+% of the people live.
    Oh, you mean like how ending Prohibition resulted in the Mafia taking over total control of the liquor business in the US???



    Seriously, it’s ass-backwards thinking like that that perpetuates the ability for those violent psychopaths to control those markets and gain ridiculous amounts of weath and power despite the political theatre of periodically capturing the leaders of those criminal organizations and locking them up in a supermax prison. The illegal market lives on and the next most violent psychopath among them takes over.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post

    There are still good folks joining polices over here, but the system has a long way to go reformwise to routinely route out the abusive assholes. And first we need to get more conservatives like Druff on board with libertarians and progressives towards reforming policing in the US.

    One step we can take on a national level is repealing the federal grants for domestic police forces get military equipment on a use-or-lose basis, as that encourages reckless use of such equipment with unnecessary SWAT raids on suspects, and increaingly innocent people.

    Another is ending the War on Drugs, as that is often used as a pretext for conducting such raids on people in their homes, as well as encourages corruption among police to further their careers, and sometimes personally enrich themselves while working with drug dealers.
    That sounds like the recipe for giving total control of the streets to Mexican cartels.

    But maybe that is the future of America, especially in blue states with a lot of recent immigrants. Just a have and have nots situation. Rich people living on the hills in gated communities with heavy policing presence keeping them safe and secure, and the drug cartels running the slums where 90+% of the people live.
    You really are ignorant on many topics and the failed "war on drugs" experiment should be no better example.

    The opioid crises is not new and some countries have found solutions when faced with alarming death tolls and drug related crime. Case in point Switzerland. They were faced the same problems the the U.S. is now. Their solution was to allow addicts free safety injection sites for as long as as needed

    Since it's inception there have been no recorded overdose related deaths through the
    Government program and it includes strong work rehabilitation program.

    Never mind the ultimate costs to a society with illicit drug trafficking
    Last edited by limitles; 02-24-2019 at 11:44 PM.

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    Ending the war on drugs is probably a good idea.

    I was mainly referring to disarming police will probably generally have the effect of handing the streets over to organized crime even more, especially in urban areas with large ethnic immigrant populations. Police violence is very far down the list of real problems threatening our civilization. The conversation around police violence is more or less a diversion to avoid acknowledging or addressing real issues.

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    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Ending the war on drugs is probably a good idea.

    I was mainly referring to disarming police will probably generally have the effect of handing the streets over to organized crime even more, especially in urban areas with large ethnic immigrant populations. Police violence is very far down the list of real problems threatening our civilization. The conversation around police violence is more or less a diversion to avoid acknowledging or addressing real issues.
    Demilitarizing the police is NOT disarming them! But stopping the granting of military equipment based on using it in SWAT raids will cut down on their excessive use of them to justify having those toys.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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