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Thread: Joy Miller rears her ugly head again and bashes me on Twitter

  1. #121
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GambleBotsSatire View Post
    Why exactly would a Libertarian be against kaepernick?
    A libertarian is very pro-business and, in general, very much favors business owner rights over employee rights.

    The typical libertarian would tell Kapernick that he's getting paid millions of dollars to play football, and to STFU and leave his political protesting to outside of work. They would never believe he has a "right" to disrupt the workplace with protest which will hurt the employer's brand and alienate many of its customers.

    Furthermore, libertarians are not big on social justice issues. They are socially liberal in their feeling that government shouldn't tell people what to do, and that we need to have far fewer laws and regulations. For example, they tend to be against recreational drug laws. But they're not at all into government attempting to solve social woes.

    Tell a libertarian, "Black people are disproportionately in prison more than any other race in America", and he/she will respond, "Then they need to stop committing so many crimes."

    Someone obsessively criticizing Trump, constantly attacking other Republicans, and in vocal support of Kapernick is a LIBERAL, not a libertarian.

     
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      MumblesBadly: Only the racist libertarians will say that.

  2. #122
    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    you have absolutely no idea what libertarians are about in the year of our lord 2019.

    the loudest voice against the police these days is libertarian, which is one of a handful of points i agree with them on.

    the fact that you think libertarians would suggest 'black people stop committing so many crimes' says that your understanding of them comes republicans who love guns so they identify as libertarian.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  3. #123
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Back to the original point of this thread.

    Emily posted this:


  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    you have absolutely no idea what libertarians are about in the year of our lord 2019.

    the loudest voice against the police these days is libertarian, which is one of a handful of points i agree with them on.

    the fact that you think libertarians would suggest 'black people stop committing so many crimes' says that your understanding of them comes republicans who love guns so they identify as libertarian.
    Libertarians don't like heavy-handed policing, but they also don't like identity politics where one certain "marginalized" group is given extra allowances or benefits.

    Ask the typical libertarian how they feel about affirmative action, for example.

    But go ahead, show me any evidence that libertarians are getting together to protest systematic racism against black people in law enforcement.

    And even if they were doing such a thing, they would never support employees being able to disrupt a business because they want to socially protest.

  5. #125
    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    libertarians regard the entire law enforcement industry as a thinly veiled property grab, its basically in their charter.

    you can spin this as hard as you want by finding dark corners of that philosophy that are or are not at odds with whatever point youre trying to make, im sure you'll find plenty. but the only thing they can agree on is that the police are trash and the military is nothing but police with better weapons and lower iqs.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  6. #126
    Both of you are correct, Sonatine being so on some things because the Libertarian party has been largely infiltrated by liberals masquerading as something they're not. I've skimmed this thread, and the type of person I'm talking about is exactly who Druff is describing as Penn's wife.

     
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      Dan Druff:

  7. #127
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Here is the libertarian position on crime and punishment: https://www.lp.org/issues/crime-and-justice/

    Aside from a reference to the "racist war on drugs", there is zero mention of race, despite their position being markedly anti-police and anti-long-prison-sentence.

    In a nutshell, libertarians believe that people should never be arrested for crimes which don't involve "force or fraud", and that long prison sentences and bad prison conditions just encourage criminals to eventually commit more crimes when released.

    Notice that absent from that entire platform is any kind of claim that black people are unfairly targeted or abused by police.

    The "racist war on drugs" criticism is one of policy, not policing practices, claiming that it's racist because black people are more likely to use and deal drugs, and therefore they are getting imprisoned more often in what libertarians feel is an unjust reason for imprisonment in the first place. (They feel nobody should go to prison for anything drug-related, dealing or otherwise.)

    Given how strongly-worded this platform is against current crime-and-punishment tactics, you'd think we'd see something about black people being routinely abused by police, but it's completely absent.

    Why do you think that is?

    It's because libertarians are not social justice warriors. They want crime-related laws changed as a whole, but do not necessarily believe that black people accused of violent crimes are being mistreated or framed.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by monsterj View Post

    Yep. Total beatdown. We went from all mutually not liking Joy Miller to Stuff defending the indefensible. This isn't difficult. Trump Sucks. I am a conservative. I don't need to bash HRC(that filthy cunt) to make it legitimate it. That's Fox News logic in a nut shell.
    I don't know if you're on social media, but I'm pretty sure you're not posting hundreds of tweets constantly bashing Republicans while saying nothing bad about Democrats for the past few years.

    If you have been, then you're not a conservative (unelss your bashing of Republicans is from the right, which Emily is not.)

    It's very simple.

    If you spend a lot of time bashing only one political party, and say absolutely nothing negative about the other party, then you obviously align with the party you're not bashing.

    It's very frustrating to see how many of you are trying to deny this. With the exception of monsterj, everyone denying it in this thread has previously identified as being on the political left, which says a lot.

    Someone posting hundreds of tweets bashing Republicans (and supporting Colin Kapernick, as well), while never bashing the left, is obviously a liberal who is very sympathetic to the left. It's not rocket science.
    I thought she was a libertarian? So not a member of Democrat or Republican. I didn't see any bylaws that their has to be an equal number of attacks by a libertarian to remain a libertarian. Maybe she just really really doesn't like Trump?

  9. #129
    And the average Libertarian has definitely always been of the "fuck the police" mentality.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterj View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    I don't know if you're on social media, but I'm pretty sure you're not posting hundreds of tweets constantly bashing Republicans while saying nothing bad about Democrats for the past few years.

    If you have been, then you're not a conservative (unelss your bashing of Republicans is from the right, which Emily is not.)

    It's very simple.

    If you spend a lot of time bashing only one political party, and say absolutely nothing negative about the other party, then you obviously align with the party you're not bashing.

    It's very frustrating to see how many of you are trying to deny this. With the exception of monsterj, everyone denying it in this thread has previously identified as being on the political left, which says a lot.

    Someone posting hundreds of tweets bashing Republicans (and supporting Colin Kapernick, as well), while never bashing the left, is obviously a liberal who is very sympathetic to the left. It's not rocket science.
    I thought she was a libertarian? So not a member of Democrat or Republican. I didn't see any bylaws that their has to be an equal number of attacks by a libertarian to remain a libertarian. Maybe she just really really doesn't like Trump?

    libertarians yell loudest at whoever is in power, for obvious reasons.

    well.. to us.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  11. #131
    I assume you also know that the liberals and libertarians have more in common that conservatives and libertarians. Hell they share the same root word(liberty). The difference is that liberals want liberty using government and the libertarians want liberty without government.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterj

    I thought she was a libertarian? So not a member of Democrat or Republican. I didn't see any bylaws that their has to be an equal number of attacks by a libertarian to remain a libertarian. Maybe she just really really doesn't like Trump?
    She only bashes Republicans (not just Trump) for the past few years, and despite hundreds of political tweets in that timespan, I can't find one criticizing any leftist or leftist policy.

    Plus she's a big fan of Kapernick and his kneeling.

    If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterj View Post
    I assume you also know that the liberals and libertarians have more in common that conservatives and libertarians. Hell they share the same root word(liberty). The difference is that liberals want liberty using government and the libertarians want liberty without government.


    Libertarians are all over the place.

    There are conservative libertarians and liberal libertarians. On economic issues, libertarians and conservatives tend to be very close. In fact, I remember in college people from the "Liberty Club" were attempting to show up to College Republicans meetings and asking us to come to their meetings, "because we're pretty close".

    The problem is that some people are basically carbon copies of Republicans or Democrats, with a few small twists on particular issues (such as the pro-marijuana Republican or the pro-gun Democrat), and then they label themselves "libertarian" because it sounds cool and rebellious.

    And then they attack the other party from a high horse of, "Hey, I'm a libertarian, so I see the flaws in both parties, so therefore I'm totally unbiased here"... when in reality, they're just as biased as someone from either of the two major parties.

    If Emily admitted she was a left-leaning libertarian, there would be no issue here. Libertarians don't have to be all cut from the same cloth. But there was a certain arrogance and dishonesty in her posts, basically saying, "No, you're just an ignoramus. I'm totally not biased against Republicans, and I'm a total libertarian, you're just seeing me attacking Republicans right now because they're in power."

    And that would be as absurd as sonatine claiming he's a centrist and just attacking Republicans because they're in power now.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by monsterj

    I thought she was a libertarian? So not a member of Democrat or Republican. I didn't see any bylaws that their has to be an equal number of attacks by a libertarian to remain a libertarian. Maybe she just really really doesn't like Trump?
    She only bashes Republicans (not just Trump) for the past few years, and despite hundreds of political tweets in that timespan, I can't find one criticizing any leftist or leftist policy.

    Plus she's a big fan of Kapernick and his kneeling.

    If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....
    Trying to force someone into your definition of a certain label by the art of negation is a fools errand. Your time should be better spent elsewhere. Just my opinion.

  15. #135
    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    ok so lets focus on the parts that libertarians agree on;

    the constitution.


    show me in the constitution where there is an exception to the first amendment for pro football players and i'll be the first to say wow todd totally knew what he was talking about.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    ok so lets focus on the parts that libertarians agree on;

    the constitution.


    show me in the constitution where there is an exception to the first amendment for pro football players and i'll be the first to say wow todd totally knew what he was talking about.
    Libertarians feel that business owners are paying the bills and should basically be able to do what they want.

    So if the business owner says, "Hey, your kneeling during the anthem is costing us money, and we're paying you a fortune to represent us. You need to stop doing that", the libertarian would be totally in favor of the business owner having the right to make such a demand, and to fire someone who doesn't adhere to it.

    The libertarian would NOT be saying, "B-b-b-b-but black people are so abused by police, fuck the business owners! Let the employees protest on the employer's dime, and protect them if they're fired!"

    The libertarian WOULD defend the right of Kapernick to protest in public when not at work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterj View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    She only bashes Republicans (not just Trump) for the past few years, and despite hundreds of political tweets in that timespan, I can't find one criticizing any leftist or leftist policy.

    Plus she's a big fan of Kapernick and his kneeling.

    If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....
    Trying to force someone into your definition of a certain label by the art of negation is a fools errand. Your time should be better spent elsewhere. Just my opinion.
    I'm not trying to force anyone into anything. I am stating what looks obvious from all appearances.

    If I came on this forum and announced that I'm actually a Democrat but just have a few views which differ from the party, you'd rightfully call bullshit, and you'd laugh if I said you were trying to "force me your definition into a certain label".

    If you're on the left, be proud of that and admit it. Same thing if your'e on the right.

    People who hide behind fake political labels in order to seem cool or to strengthen their arguing position are really annoying to me.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    ok so lets focus on the parts that libertarians agree on;

    the constitution.


    show me in the constitution where there is an exception to the first amendment for pro football players and i'll be the first to say wow todd totally knew what he was talking about.
    Libertarians feel that business owners are paying the bills and should basically be able to do what they want.

    So if the business owner says, "Hey, your kneeling during the anthem is costing us money, and we're paying you a fortune to represent us. You need to stop doing that", the libertarian would be totally in favor of the business owner having the right to make such a demand, and to fire someone who doesn't adhere to it.

    The libertarian would NOT be saying, "B-b-b-b-but black people are so abused by police, fuck the business owners! Let the employees protest on the employer's dime, and protect them if they're fired!"

    The libertarian WOULD defend the right of Kapernick to protest in public when not at work.

    sorry where in the first amendment does it say a pro football player cant take a knee during the national anthem exactly, im not seeing it.

    is there another amendment that covers that?

    otherwise youre describing a republican, not a libertarian.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    ok so lets focus on the parts that libertarians agree on;

    the constitution.


    show me in the constitution where there is an exception to the first amendment for pro football players and i'll be the first to say wow todd totally knew what he was talking about.
    Libertarians feel that business owners are paying the bills and should basically be able to do what they want.

    So if the business owner says, "Hey, your kneeling during the anthem is costing us money, and we're paying you a fortune to represent us. You need to stop doing that", the libertarian would be totally in favor of the business owner having the right to make such a demand, and to fire someone who doesn't adhere to it.

    The libertarian would NOT be saying, "B-b-b-b-but black people are so abused by police, fuck the business owners! Let the employees protest on the employer's dime, and protect them if they're fired!"

    The libertarian WOULD defend the right of Kapernick to protest in public when not at work.
    I don't think you could be more wrong If you tried. You have no idea what a libertarian would believe. Kneeling, would be considered free speech. Period. Libertarian would defend Kaepernick 100 times out of 100.

  20. #140
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    A lot of times, people like to stick to former labels they had when they felt differently about politics, and then use it to supposedly strengthen their arguments.

    So a guy who was a Republican in 2004 but has since gone far to the left may still say he's "Republican", but espouse only viewpoints which match with the political left.

    Then, when called out for bias, he can respond, "Whoa! I'm a Republican just like you! I voted for George W. Bush both times! I'm just not blind to a lot of the stupidity in our party like you are."

    It's totally disingenuous.

    Yes, the parties do change over time and leave some of the moderates (on both sides) behind, but that's not what I'm talking about.

    A solid Republican in 2004 would still be a solid Republican today, even if his views haven't changed a bit in the past 15 years.

    I just don't like phonies and those who debate from a false position.

    This isn't even a partisan attack on my part. I'm equally annoyed with "Democrats" and "liberals" who appear on conservative YouTube shows and somehow agree almost 100% with the right-wing hosts.

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