Soooooo The Cubs may be for sale

[DonaldTrumpsHairPiece]

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/cubs-pat...001154007.html


On a side note he says nothing that isn't true and to me that is the sad thing. The Quran literally says what he says they think about Christians and Jews.

Ask yourself, name 5-10 Islamic/Muslim countries and ask yourself why they never were before and how long it took. Not long, they immigrate, breed and take over. Sometimes the truth hurts, a REAL Muslim thinks you are less than a dog. The one's that say only extremists or radicals think that or hate are full of crap or never read their own book.

[GambleBotsSatire]

can you imagine being governor and having to tell your old ass dad to check snopes to see if obama was a male sex worker

[GrenadaRoger]

can you imagine being governor and having to tell your old ass dad to check snopes to see if obama was a male sex worker

well, not the governor part

[Crowe Diddly]

The one's that say only extremists or radicals think that or hate are full of crap or never read their own book.

Have you read the Quran?

[duped_samaritan]

Jeez. Joe Ricketts might be worse than SideDish/Sparten and co.

[DonaldTrumpsHairPiece]

The one's that say only extremists or radicals think that or hate are full of crap or never read their own book.

Have you read the Quran?

Yes I have and no you cannot win this argument. It 110% is a book filled with flat out direct to kill infidels and those who refuse to follow Islam. It compares you and me to dogs and lessor than.

Unlike most religions or faiths Islam is a real stand out because it actual states you can do everything right according to the Quran and even still you may not make it! What a hope that gives. Not to mention its countless pages of dribble and nonsense. Believed to be due to the seizures they believe Muhammad was having as they wrote his words.

Bottom line you can NOT be a true follower of that religion and NOT hate people, period. You are only fooling yourself or chosing pieces of the Quran which if you are don't tell you Imam they may poke your eyes out.

And before anyone says the Old Test in the Bible and Jewish law blah blah blah that has changed and no ones stones anyone. It's evolved as a story/law. Islam did not.

[Crowe Diddly]

Have you read the Quran?

Yes I have and no you cannot win this argument. It 110% is a book filled with flat out direct to kill infidels and those who refuse to follow Islam. It compares you and me to dogs and lessor than.

First off, I have not yet begun to argue. Just asked a single question.

It's almost like the Bible doesn't say in numerous places that sinners and non-believers should be killed, as well as their relatives and lands and animals etc. Oh wait...

But in what scenario did you read the Quran? I 100% don't believe you just picked it up and start reading it, because you would NEVER finish it if that was the case, because it's almost as bad as the Book of Mormon as far as being windy and impenetrable without an idea of the backstory or history or even the nature of the translation itself. I know, I tried multiple times, with multiple translations. What/Whose notes or guides or 'shoulder programming,' so to speak, giving context and explaining the weirdness of translating spoken arabic into modern English, did you read with it?

Bottom line you can NOT be a true follower of that religion and NOT hate people, period. You are only fooling yourself or chosing pieces of the Quran which if you are don't tell you Imam they may poke your eyes out.

I literally know many living examples of those you say do not exist.

It's funny how we accept that there are innumerable versions of christianity based on a single bible, who all believe and practice some similar and some very different things based on their interpretation of said text, but there's only one version of Islamic belief based on a single text. Almost sounds unlikely and unbelievable.

Of course, that's because it isn't true. There are as many translations and interpretations as there are imams.

[duped_samaritan]

Crowe Diddly is correct

[DonaldTrumpsHairPiece]

Yes I have and no you cannot win this argument. It 110% is a book filled with flat out direct to kill infidels and those who refuse to follow Islam. It compares you and me to dogs and lessor than.

First off, I have not yet begun to argue.

It's almost like the Bible doesn't say in numerous places that sinners and non-believers should be killed, as well as their relatives and lands and animals etc. Oh wait...

But in what scenario did you read the Quran? I 100% don't believe you just picked it up and start reading it, because you would NEVER finish it if that was the case, because it's almost as bad as the Book of Mormon as far as being windy and impenetrable without an idea of the backstory or history or even the nature of the translation itself. I know, I tried multiple times, with multiple translations. What/Whose notes or guides or 'shoulder programming,' so to speak, giving context and explaining the weirdness of translating spoken arabic into modern English, did you read with it?

I literally know many living examples of those you say do not exist.

It's funny how there are innumerable versions of christianity based on a single bible, but who all believe very different things based on their interpretation of said text, but there's only one version of Islamic belief. Almost sounds unbelievable.

Like I said the Bible evolved, the story the laws, no Christian/Jew is stoning, beheading or killing non believers because God told them to. The issue with Islam is it goes backwards and has never evolved, the mission remains the same or maybe I should say, method. Islamic countries go backward to forwarding of human rights, this is undeniable and dictated by the Quran.

As for how I read it, I have a diverse group of friends and getting an English translation was easy as well as Arabic. One friend was from Pakistan and the other Iran. I did quite a bit of reading with the them. At points it was weird ramblings and at others brutal direction and almost game like. I cannot speak strongly about the Book of Mormons but personally believe it is more of a cultish thing.

One's gut is usual right, if it ever tells you, ya that's a cult man, you should listen lol

You know many examples of hypocrite Muslims, good for you, where I come from you either believe your religions whole book and teachings or you don't. No ignoring the murder your fellow non believing Jew neighbor stuff like the real Muslims you know lol That is my point, they are not real Muslims, sorry.

The difference between interpreting bible verses differently on certain topics of say sex etc is by no way a pass for the hate the Quran teaches.

News flash Crowe, your Muslim friends would kill you in a second if they were told to and if not, they aint no Muslim.

[Crowe Diddly]

Like I said the Bible evolved, the story the laws, no Christian/Jew is stoning, beheading or killing non believers because God told them to.

Ridiculous. A homosexual or heretic is just as likely to get kllled by christians in Uganda as they are by muslims in Dagestan. You aren't likely to get killed by most christians or most muslims in most of the world. However, the religious texts of both give you all the ammo you need if that's what you are into. Also, the Bible has not "evolved." The Old Testament is still as terrible as it always was, and in case you hadn't noticed, a MASSIVE portion of christians are way more interested in the hard laws of the old testament rather than the 'good news' 'love thy neighbor' New Testament.

You know many examples of hypocrite Muslims, good for you, where I come from you either believe your religions whole book and teachings or you don't.

So every Christian who denied the word of God that is the Old Testament is also a hypocrite. Weird, since there are plenty of places where the text contradicts itself, INSISTING you have 2 competing beliefs at the same time. That's God-mandated hypocrisy.

Newsflash, hypocrisy is an integral part of the human existence.

The difference between interpreting bible verses differently on certain topics of say sex etc is by no way a pass for the hate the Quran teaches.

Most of the Bible quotes I'm referring to leave zero room for interpretation, much like you would say with the quran. I'm not giving either a pass, quite the opposite. YOU are giving one of them a pass without giving the other the same pass. I give neither a pass.

News flash Crowe, your Muslim friends would kill you in a second if they were told to and if not, they aint no Muslim.

I'm sure they value your judgment on their religion and would take it very seriously. Also, who would be the one telling them to kill me?

[DonaldTrumpsHairPiece]

Ok, I think there is a question I need to ask you, do you know the difference or I should say reason for the New Testament in the Bible? I only ask because your first question/statement shows a lack of understanding, no offense.

Ridiculous. A homosexual or heretic is just as likely to get kllled by christians in Uganda as they are by muslims in Dagestan. You aren't likely to get killed by most christians or most muslims in most of the world. However, the religious texts of both give you all the ammo you need if that's what you are into. Also, the Bible has not "evolved." The Old Testament is still as terrible as it always was, and in case you hadn't noticed, a MASSIVE portion of christians are way more interested in the hard laws of the old testament rather than the 'good news' 'love thy neighbor' New Testament.

For starters stating Homosexuals are as likely to be killed in Uganda (or anywhere) by a Christian as a Muslim is preposterous. Homosexuals cannot freely travel or be known in most Muslim countries and if they are their life is always in danger. I would use the same ruler to judge so called Christians who killed a homosexual, NOT a christian.
Your comparison of the Quran and the Old Testament is a quite common method in deflecting the issues with Islam. And as stated, one evolved, the other did not. Leading to my original question above, do you know the difference or I should say why there is a New Testament? The NT was written on the premise Jesus did away with those old laws, again no real Christian is throwing gays off roof tops, to think so is mind boggling. But Muslims do and often around the world because their belief system/method has not changed. The argument of the Old Testament is an ignorant man's quick comeback. In short the " ya but the old testament " argument is fruitless unless you show Islam evolved as well. Stating Christians are more interested in old laws is also laughable, the foundational laws such as the 10 commandments exist, sure but only because the ideas still exist in the NT. Read the 10 commandments, where int hem does it command anyone to kill anyone else?

So every Christian who denied the word of God that is the Old Testament is also a hypocrite. Weird, since there are plenty of places where the text contradicts itself, INSISTING you have 2 competing beliefs at the same time. That's God-mandated hypocrisy.

Newsflash, hypocrisy is an integral part of the human existence.

Noooo, as explained above.

Most of the Bible quotes I'm referring to leave zero room for interpretation, much like you would say with the quran. I'm not giving either a pass, quite the opposite. YOU are giving one of them a pass without giving the other the same pass. I give neither a pass.

And here we are again, you are trying to use a system which should have ended 2000 (roughly) years ago which has been and I quote the Bible "done away with" (the OT laws) to justify a very real and very current ideology given by the Quran to continue with violence. In fact this is the major difference when looking at Christianity vs. Judaism. Judaism does not believe Jesus was the son of God and thus the New Testament is untrue. Therefore tell a practicing Jew that Christians live by the old law and they would laugh at your ignorance. The very fact Christianity evolved with the coming of Christ and the New Testament crushes your flawed theory. Basically a Jew wouldn't agree with you comparing Christianity and it's laws to being the same as the Quran. If anything the New Testament clearly states Jesus came to do away with the "old law". This is what makes me believe Crowe Diddly my good man you know not of the New Testament and are lumping in laws because Christians belief was formed and has its base in the OT to start not knowing that law was done away with. If anything even practicing Jews today shy away from many old laws and they too evolved to stop stoning women. It is ONLY the Quran to this very day which remains a violent religion, no other main stream for lack of a better term religion exists which condones such things, none.

m sure they value your judgment on their religion and would take it very seriously. Also, who would be the one telling them to kill me?

Who? Their Quran, unless of course you are a Muslim yourself they are directly told to lie in wait for the unbeliever and quite literally remove their head. It goes further to say a slow punishment can be even better than their death. In other words torture the dog (that's you) and enjoy it.

The Pew Institute has some very good and real data collected on how Muslims feel about non Muslims, even the "peaceful" loving Muslims you say you know. The vast majority of Muslims around the world see no issue with terror attacks, the death of innocent people to advance Islam.

[Crowe Diddly]

Let's go back to the main discussion first. The line that sparked my response was this.

Sometimes the truth hurts, a REAL Muslim thinks you are less than a dog. The one's that say only extremists or radicals think that or hate are full of crap or never read their own book.

Then you gave us this.

Bottom line you can NOT be a true follower of that religion and NOT hate people, period. You are only fooling yourself or chosing pieces of the Quran which if you are don't tell you Imam they may poke your eyes out.

News flash Crowe, your Muslim friends would kill you in a second if they were told to and if not, they aint no Muslim.

You told me that Muslims that I knew were not Muslims if they didnt have it in them to kill me for Islam, because lol you know better than them I guess. That's the most ridiculous thing in this thread btw, you acting like the arbiter of who can be a Muslim based upon whether you think they believe the right Muslim things.
This was a weird insert:

Unlike most religions or faiths Islam is a real stand out because it actual states you can do everything right according to the Quran and even still you may not make it! What a hope that gives.

That's called Predestination. The Christians who believe that are called Calvinists, and they have a pretty long, interesting history in the US. Still do, and maybe growing, depending on who you believe. Massive influence on Baptist churches, too. But as for the Muslims, this may stun you, but they don't all believe the same thing regarding this. However, the largest group of Muslims by FAR, the Sunnis, generally believe that while God has perfect knowledge of the past and future and has already written the book because of it, the human still has freedom of choice for all his actions. The human does not do the action because it is in the book, it is in the book because whatever the human does, God obv has perfect knowledge and knew you were going to do it, so he already wrote it in the book. There are many theological viewpoints on this matter, within Muslims and outside them, but that is the prevailing majority view, as I understand it.

Of course, here is where you might say that "THEY'RE NOT MUSLIMS IF THEY BELIEVE THAT!" or something like that, because you don't seem to think there can be any variety in Muslim beliefs, or else they ain't Muslims. Unfortunately, you are easily, verifiably wrong.

Lets go to your final paragraph.

The Pew Institute has some very good and real data collected on how Muslims feel about non Muslims, even the "peaceful" loving Muslims you say you know. The vast majority of Muslims around the world see no issue with terror attacks, the death of innocent people to advance Islam.

Lets investigate. I googled Pew Institute first off, just to make sure they weren't whackjobs. Non-partisan fact tank. Nothing jumps out as them being extreme in any way. I'm in. So I googled "Pew Institute Muslims." First link was about Muslim populations in the US, but the 2nd one appears to be what you are talking about. It's a compilation report of all their data over a bunch of years and surveys, last updated in mid 2017.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...und-the-world/

First bunch of paragraphs are about why and where Muslim populations are growing, by how much, how Americans and Euros feel about Muslims, and things like that.

Here's the good stuff, tho.

"What do Muslims around the world believe?
Like any religious group, the religious beliefs and practices of Muslims vary depending on many factors, including where in the world they live."

I feel like I should stop right there. My main point, as clearly stated as can be, by your source.

"For instance, a Pew Research Center survey of Muslims in 39 countries asked Muslims whether they want sharia law, a legal code based on the Quran and other Islamic scripture, to be the official law of the land in their country. Responses on this question vary widely. Nearly all Muslims in Afghanistan (99%) and most in Iraq (91%) and Pakistan (84%) support sharia law as official law. But in some other countries, especially in Eastern Europe and Central Asia – including Turkey (12%), Kazakhstan (10%) and Azerbaijan (8%) – relatively few favor the implementation of sharia law."

Follow the embedded link for more details on all the different views on the many things Muslims disagree about concerning Sharia law and what it should actually entail. There's tremendous variation and severity in views.

Lets hop to the section on extremist views from that last link, from your suggested source Pew.

"Extremism Widely Rejected

Muslims around the world strongly reject violence in the name of Islam."
Wait, that can't be correct. Those must not be real Muslims, right, DTHP?

News flash Crowe, your Muslim friends would kill you in a second if they were told to and if not, they aint no Muslim.

"Muslims around the world strongly reject violence in the name of Islam." From your source, dude.

"Yet there are some countries in which substantial minorities think violence against civilians is at least sometimes justified. This view is particularly widespread among Muslims in the Palestinian territories (40%), Afghanistan (39%), Egypt (29%) and Bangladesh (26%)."

Not a huge surprise there, the places that have long been war-torn always have the most religious extremists. Even where the beliefs are held the most strongly, though, they are still decided minorities.

Muslim extremists exist. I know that. Everyone knows that. I live in Boston, we kinda had a thing a few years back with Muslim extremists, as you may remember. They are not the majority of Muslims. Not all Muslims believe the same thing. A small percentage of Muslims want to kill anyone for any reason, but when you are 25% of the world, that's a lot bad people.

The tl;dr
DTsHairPiece' claims that "the vast majority of Muslims around the world see no issue with terror attacks, the death of innocent people to advance Islam."
The evidence he offers to support the claims shows the direct opposite.

[Crowe Diddly]

Ok, I think there is a question I need to ask you, do you know the difference or I should say reason for the New Testament in the Bible? I only ask because your first question/statement shows a lack of understanding, no offense.

The new testament is in the bible because it is the story of Jesus and the early church. Along with the Old Testament, it is the canon of Christianity. Some christian churches have a heavy focus on the New Testament. Some churches focus way more heavily on the Old Testament. In US politics at the moment, when conservatives quote bible verses, they tend to lean very heavily on the Old Testament, like Proverbs, Romans, Psalms, Exodus, and more Proverbs. I admit, they do also hit up Revelations, which is very much New Testament, but it's apocalyptic madness and perhaps the strangest maddest part of a book with a lot of strange, mad stuff in it.

What am I not understanding?

[DonaldTrumpsHairPiece]

Ok, I think there is a question I need to ask you, do you know the difference or I should say reason for the New Testament in the Bible? I only ask because your first question/statement shows a lack of understanding, no offense.

The new testament is in the bible because it is the story of Jesus and the early church. Along with the Old Testament, it is the canon of Christianity. Some christian churches have a heavy focus on the New Testament. Some churches focus way more heavily on the Old Testament. In US politics at the moment, when conservatives quote bible verses, they tend to lean very heavily on the Old Testament, like Proverbs, Romans, Psalms, Exodus, and more Proverbs. I admit, they do also hit up Revelations, which is very much New Testament, but it's apocalyptic madness and perhaps the strangest maddest part of a book with a lot of strange, mad stuff in it.

What am I not understanding?

Your first couple sentences are true, but what you seems to forget which I just explained is the old law(OT) (like stoning etc) they lived by was replaced, essentially the NT (Jesus) picks up the love/redemption factor and so on while leaving punishment to the Lord. This does not however remove the basic principles which are covered by love, such as having no other God, lying, stealing, jealousy, envy, wrath, hatred etc. Thus no Christian is told to stone, murder etc as with the Quran. That is my point, Christianity while starting with those OT laws evolved. As far as politicians go and quotes, here nor there to doctrine. By the way I find Proverbs to be an exceptionally good book in terms of advice/guidance and last time I checked no where is anyone given the green light to lay in wait for a person and torture or kill them as again, with the Quran.

Further on, if your argument that the OT is considered for sake of the conversation as being equal to the violence taught in the Quran and you now know Christians do not live fully to that OT law but rather Jews still do....arn't Jews now in your eyes worse than Christians? I'm playing devils advocate here because even I know Judaism evolved to a point where the wrath/punishment of God is left to God in terms of stoning/killing, even their own, adulterous wives for example. But I digress... The very fact you wish to point out that the OT is as violent as the Quran is an admission the Quran is violent! Therefore you could as easily turn to your Muslim friend and say hey your Quran is violent, whats your excuse for not following Allah's orders?

This is my point, what you understand and do not I cannot do for you.

There will always be hypocrites, bad apples, poor examples of any religion but they do not trump the doctrine taught of any belief. I had an interesting discussion with a Hindu the other day, nice girl but when she started saying things they believe then went on to follow that up with, well we don't have any real rules per say or book we must follow I was like (in my head) thinking wow so no rules or laws, interesting. Also I asked here about reincarnation and if she becomes a bird or whatever when she dies is it still "her" but a bird, she said no not how it works, I said so why bother living a good life or being kind/karma, etc. She looked at me and answered, I dunno.

Laws are good, laws keep us in check, laws which tell you to kill others are evil, those are the laws/commands of the Quran. If any Muslim says well I am a good person and I wouldn't do that, Allah himself would deny that person, you are not a Muslim. We are lucky here in the US Muslims for the most part with hold their acting out of laws due to our justice system mainly ( a law a good thing) but around the world we see and hear of their violence towards not just other religions but their own family members because that is their Quran's law and they are good Muslims and follow direction. Those Muslim friends of yours back home in a Muslim nation would 100% follow them too or again... not a Muslim. What they have done is exchange their religions laws for the better life in America... for example I cannot kill my sister or stone my wife but I can have freedom here to drive an Audi, live in a nice house, have a good job, watch movies, not wear a hijab, dress how I wish... they sold out. But I bet when mom and dad from Iran or Jordan or where ever come to visit the hijab goes on, women sit in another room the whole 9 yards because they know better. Look at Iran, plenty of examples of freedom lost under Islamic law, plenty.

This is exactly why we cannot afford for the US to become an Islamic nation, its a brutal one in terms of punishment. My fear is in the future the Muslim population grows in North America to the point they start making their way into positions of power, changing laws, caring out punishment according to their doctrine. And before you say I am crazy or paranoid I can run off a list of Nations we know as Muslim today you would likely not want to live in as non Muslim that just 100 years ago were NOT and by immigration alone they conquered.

[ftpjesus]

Yes I have and no you cannot win this argument. It 110% is a book filled with flat out direct to kill infidels and those who refuse to follow Islam. It compares you and me to dogs and lessor than.

First off, I have not yet begun to argue. Just asked a single question.

It's almost like the Bible doesn't say in numerous places that sinners and non-believers should be killed, as well as their relatives and lands and animals etc. Oh wait...

But in what scenario did you read the Quran? I 100% don't believe you just picked it up and start reading it, because you would NEVER finish it if that was the case, because it's almost as bad as the Book of Mormon as far as being windy and impenetrable without an idea of the backstory or history or even the nature of the translation itself. I know, I tried multiple times, with multiple translations. What/Whose notes or guides or 'shoulder programming,' so to speak, giving context and explaining the weirdness of translating spoken arabic into modern English, did you read with it?

Bottom line you can NOT be a true follower of that religion and NOT hate people, period. You are only fooling yourself or chosing pieces of the Quran which if you are don't tell you Imam they may poke your eyes out.

I literally know many living examples of those you say do not exist.

It's funny how we accept that there are innumerable versions of christianity based on a single bible, who all believe and practice some similar and some very different things based on their interpretation of said text, but there's only one version of Islamic belief based on a single text. Almost sounds unlikely and unbelievable.

Of course, that's because it isn't true. There are as many translations and interpretations as there are imams.

Your statement of their being only one Islam version isn't true.. Biggest religious rift that rivals the Protestants and the Catholics in Ireland is the one between the Sunni and Shia Muslims.. Theres also to Suffis making three.. and then theres the weird little hybrid the B'hai which are also like the Unitarians are to Christianity..

[Crowe Diddly]

It's funny how we accept that there are innumerable versions of christianity based on a single bible, who all believe and practice some similar and some very different things based on their interpretation of said text, but there's only one version of Islamic belief based on a single text. Almost sounds unlikely and unbelievable.

Of course, that's because it isn't true. There are as many translations and interpretations as there are imams.

Your statement of their being only one Islam version isn't true..

Wtf dude. Your reading comprehension in nonexistent.

[Crowe Diddly]

Your first couple sentences are true, but what you seems to forget which I just explained is the old law(OT) (like stoning etc) they lived by was replaced, essentially the NT (Jesus) picks up the love/redemption factor and so on while leaving punishment to the Lord. This does not however remove the basic principles which are covered by love, such as having no other God, lying, stealing, jealousy, envy, wrath, hatred etc. Thus no Christian is told to stone, murder etc as with the Quran. That is my point, Christianity while starting with those OT laws evolved. As far as politicians go and quotes, here nor there to doctrine. By the way I find Proverbs to be an exceptionally good book in terms of advice/guidance and last time I checked no where is anyone given the green light to lay in wait for a person and torture or kill them as again, with the Quran.

Further on, if your argument that the OT is considered for sake of the conversation as being equal to the violence taught in the Quran and you now know Christians do not live fully to that OT law but rather Jews still do....arn't Jews now in your eyes worse than Christians? I'm playing devils advocate here because even I know Judaism evolved to a point where the wrath/punishment of God is left to God in terms of stoning/killing, even their own, adulterous wives for example. But I digress... The very fact you wish to point out that the OT is as violent as the Quran is an admission the Quran is violent! Therefore you could as easily turn to your Muslim friend and say hey your Quran is violent, whats your excuse for not following Allah's orders?

So I did that. The simplest answer is that Allah gave them free will, and also that murder is a most serious sin, and if they feel after the fact they were incorrect, about anything, they repent. Then he said that the the koran explicitly states that you should never cherrypick verses, you must take the entire document as a whole, and the overwhelming majority of it is very, very far from violent, indeed it reincorces how much murder is a sin many, many times. Then he said that the "kill them where they lie" stuff everyone always talks about is about the historical era it was written in, where the "idolaters" who had repeatedly attacked and killed lots of them, then signed treaties with them, then broke those treaties and attacked them again, yeah, slit their throats essentially. It is very much a story of its day, as are almost all the violent parts of the quran. This is a thing Muslims understand because they study the book and the history of their people before and during the time of the Quran. THEN he said that most Muslims consider ISIS to be the same types of people Muhammed railed against in the first place, the interlopers who murder and break treaties and such. Weird, huh? Not like what you said it meant at all.

There will always be hypocrites, bad apples, poor examples of any religion but they do not trump the doctrine taught of any belief. I had an interesting discussion with a Hindu the other day, nice girl but when she started saying things they believe then went on to follow that up with, well we don't have any real rules per say or book we must follow I was like (in my head) thinking wow so no rules or laws, interesting. Also I asked here about reincarnation and if she becomes a bird or whatever when she dies is it still "her" but a bird, she said no not how it works, I said so why bother living a good life or being kind/karma, etc. She looked at me and answered, I dunno.

They don't use laws or rules because they teach ethics, aspirations, and morality. But as for why live a good life, the answer to that is that it's quite explicit in their core beliefs. The goal is Dharma. Living a true, just, moral life is the very much part of the goal, not merely a commandment. That's my understanding, anyway.

Laws are good, laws keep us in check, laws which tell you to kill others are evil, those are the laws/commands of the Quran. If any Muslim says well I am a good person and I wouldn't do that, Allah himself would deny that person, you are not a Muslim.

The only Muslim Allah would ever deny is one who believed in Gods other than Allah (or idols) and did not repent and receive forgiveness before death. Everything else is forgivable.

Everything.

For the very last time in this thread, you are not the arbiter of who is a Muslim and you are in no place to make any such statements with any authority, so please stop doing it.

The very research you told me to read stated without any shadow of a doubt that even though YOU keep saying Muslims need to believe this, they themselves, OVERWHELMINGLY, do not.

And that's the crux of this thread, really. You keep saying things that ALL MUSLIMS MUST BELIEVE THIS THING, and yet a majority, an overwhelming majority really, do not.

[DonaldTrumpsHairPiece]

Ok...

So I did that. The simplest answer is that Allah gave them free will, and also that murder is a most serious sin, and if they feel after the fact they were incorrect, about anything, they repent. Then he said that the the koran explicitly states that you should never cherrypick verses, you must take the entire document as a whole, and the overwhelming majority of it is very, very far from violent, indeed it reincorces how much murder is a sin many, many times. Then he said that the "kill them where they lie" stuff everyone always talks about is about the historical era it was written in, where the "idolaters" who had repeatedly attacked and killed lots of them, then signed treaties with them, then broke those treaties and attacked them again, yeah, slit their throats essentially. It is very much a story of its day, as are almost all the violent parts of the quran. This is a thing Muslims understand because they study the book and the history of their people before and during the time of the Quran. THEN he said that most Muslims consider ISIS to be the same types of people Muhammed railed against in the first place, the interlopers who murder and break treaties and such. Weird, huh? Not like what you said it meant at all.

That is fine, they can state that murder is sin and tell you not to focus too hard on those bad verses but take the books message as a whole and hey can I buy you a drink good man and how bout them Knicks! Nothing to see here my good American friend.

The issue with this statement regarding murder is WHEN they view murder as sin and WHEN they do not. When you have a text (Quran) which sates killing for no good reason is bad or a sin but killing for the purpose of advancing your ideology and killing what they consider lower than dog's/Christians/Jews (people) it is NOT sin. These people are very good at telling you how nice they are but the fine print must be read.

As far as them telling you Muhammed rallied against ISIS types..... bro... bro... ISIS? These friends of yours are trying hard...
I will not deny that their prophet had a peaceful way about him initially, this was his Mecca period but once forced to flee to Medina his words started to change, a more combative and violent tone emerged. So yes you can read text where Muhammed sounds like he promotes peace but you can not ignore what it eventually became, a call to jihad and martyrdom. In fact in his early teaching he calls for peace, ten years later he's attacking Christians and Jews to die or convert (historical facts).

So saying they believe all murder is a sin or Muhammed was peaceful are both debunked by anyone who knows the history and the verses he wrote after the one's touting peace. Or is it possible he was a conflicted man (Muhammed)? Some scholars believe his entire text was written during episodes of seizures and touched up by others to create a story line tying in their Abrahamic lineage.

The only Muslim Allah would ever deny is one who believed in Gods other than Allah (or idols) and did not repent and receive forgiveness before death. Everything else is forgivable.

Everything.

For the very last time in this thread, you are not the arbiter of who is a Muslim and you are in no place to make any such statements with any authority, so please stop doing it.

Hhhmmm, "The Crowe Diddly doth protest too much, methinks".

Only Allah you say, I have no place or authority you say huh, please stop you say. Very interesting choice of words from a non Muslim, either that or your Muslim friend is sleeping with you.

Can I ask you and be honest, are you or anyone close to you a Muslim, have been or considering?

By the way I see your reason for edit states spelling on last post, mine is horrid as well so I edit steady as I read back. No worries, no spelling police here but it does speak to your consciousness, in a good way.

[Crowe Diddly]

The only Muslim Allah would ever deny is one who believed in Gods other than Allah (or idols) and did not repent and receive forgiveness before death. Everything else is forgivable.

Everything.

For the very last time in this thread, you are not the arbiter of who is a Muslim and you are in no place to make any such statements with any authority, so please stop doing it.

Hhhmmm, "The Crowe Diddly doth protest too much, methinks".

Only Allah you say, I have no place or authority you say huh, please stop you say. Very interesting choice of words from a non Muslim, either that or your Muslim friend is sleeping with you.

Can I ask you and be honest, are you or anyone close to you a Muslim, have been or considering?

By the way I see your reason for edit states spelling on last post, mine is horrid as well so I edit steady as I read back. No worries, no spelling police here but it does speak to your consciousness, in a good way.

You talk as an expert on a religion that you don't even get the basics of. Everything IS forgivable, just like in Christianity. And NO, YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO AUTHORITY AS TO WHAT ARE EASILY VERIFIABLE THINGS THAT ALL MUSLIMS BELIEVE IN UNANIMOUSLY AND CLEARLY. SO YES, PLEASE STOP SAYING "If they don't believe it they're not Muslim" WHEN CLEARLY OVER A BILLION MUSLIMS DISAGREE WITH YOU, AS CLEARLY STATED BY THE REPORT YOU USED TO BOLSTER YOUR ARGUMENT.

You talk about doctrine so much and you don't know the basic shit about it. I protest when you write insanely, obviously incorrect things. You just move down the line and ignore the obviously wrong shit you said earlier. You sure haven't addressed how you got that Pew Center report so wrong, btw. Like I couldn't have found a better source to refute you with, you just handed it to me. And that was after you were like "Don't even start an argument you can't win". That's what started the argument, you saying that.

As for my background, Irish Catholic, altar boy, confirmed, and pretty much understood that there was no God in about 3rd grade. Essentially, lifelong atheist who had to do the Catholic thing because that's what was done. Only church I'd ever consider joining ever again would be UU, and that's pretty unlikely too.

[Crowe Diddly]

I wouldn't have to protest so much if you weren't wrong so much.