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Thread: Attention lawyers: Is this grounds for a class action suit?

  1. #21
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsearles22 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    You can make your snide comments if you want.

    For those wondering why I'm bothering with this, I'm pissed off even though I only got ripped off for a small amount of money. If this were just a one-off screw job, I'd probably just charge it back to the App Store (which you can do) and let it go, but it's clear that this is an intentional (and probably illegal) pattern to cheat mass numbers of people for relatively small amounts of money, which add up to be something large when all taken together.

    So I'm wondering if a viable class action suit could be started, because this piece of shit scam company deserves it. Not that I'll benefit much from it, but just the satisfaction of seeing these stubborn and shady cocksuckers suffer will be all the benefit I need.
    Whatís the game?
    I don't want to make it public just yet. But I will soon.

    I'm not revealing some deep, dark secret here. Anyone who has played this particular game for awhile, and bought gold, has had this occur.

  2. #22
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied View Post
    Stuff like this will become more and more rampant.

    Late stage capitalism and all that.
    I hate to say it, but you're correct.

    Sadly, we are at a point where many people take the attitude of, "It's just a small amount of money, stop whining, you bitch", or "It's in the terms of service, so you have no right to complain", or "It says no refunds and all purchases are final. Can't you read?"

    I am a supporter of capitalism in general, but not of capitalism engaging in fraudulent and deceptive business practices.

  3. #23
    I was Druff yesterday. Sale was for Steamfresh vegetables. 5 for 5 bucks. I purchased mixed veggies, green beans and peas. I was charged $1.76 for the peas. Had to argue with customer service for 10 mins to get my $3.04 back.

     
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      sonatine: au naturale
    Au Naturale

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by splitthis View Post
    I was Druff yesterday. Sale was for Steamfresh vegetables. 5 for 5 bucks. I purchased mixed veggies, green beans and peas. I was charged $1.76 for the peas. Had to argue with customer service for 10 mins to get my $3.04 back.
    What kind of monster needs 4 bags of peas?

     
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      splitthis: I bought 10 bags total, you need more veggies.
    It's hilarious that we as a society think everyone can be a dr, a lawyer, an engineer. Some people are just fucking stupid. Why can't we just accept that?

  5. #25
    Inaugural Spring Classic Champion HoodedN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsearles22 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by splitthis View Post
    I was Druff yesterday. Sale was for Steamfresh vegetables. 5 for 5 bucks. I purchased mixed veggies, green beans and peas. I was charged $1.76 for the peas. Had to argue with customer service for 10 mins to get my $3.04 back.
    What kind of monster needs 4 bags of peas?
    How dare you?
    #ToddsPlan

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by handicapme View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    You can make your snide comments if you want.

    For those wondering why I'm bothering with this, I'm pissed off even though I only got ripped off for a small amount of money. If this were just a one-off screw job, I'd probably just charge it back to the App Store (which you can do) and let it go, but it's clear that this is an intentional (and probably illegal) pattern to cheat mass numbers of people for relatively small amounts of money, which add up to be something large when all taken together.

    So I'm wondering if a viable class action suit could be started, because this piece of shit scam company deserves it. Not that I'll benefit much from it, but just the satisfaction of seeing these stubborn and shady cocksuckers suffer will be all the benefit I need.
    1. Read terms of service
    2. Unless they are blatantly stealing from you (which they aren't but you feel they are) you have no remedies.
    3. Did you read the TOS yet?
    4. Delete the game and never pay "gold"again, you have enough in the pool.

    Honestly man I would have never pegged you as someone who would do this... you know I'm usually on your side with things, but I'm embarrassed for you right now. Also, I can promise you that you aren't the only person to think of this, won't be the last and the company doesn't give a fuck.
    Pretty much this ^

    Obviously if its proven to be just an outright scam then there is some legal recourse, as there always should be.

     
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      handicapme: Please stick to finance and don't sign TOS docs that say I can shoot you in the head!

  7. #27
    I didn't practice litigation, but in general class actions are becoming harder to pursue. It's getting so only unsophisticated companies will face class actions.

    https://www.huntonak.com/images/cont...agreements.pdf

  8. #28
    You sure a minor didn't make the purchases to start with

  9. #29
    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    Yes. Yes it is.

    The caveat is you're going to need to find demonstrative evidence that the purchases were made in a way similar to what you described (essentially inadvertent).

    I and many others could help you do this but, and this is not in the slightest bit snarky, the cost for anyone to set up a proxy and MITM the traffic then distilling it into a form digestible to a legal authority would be prohibitive.

    Which is exactly what these games count on.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  10. #30
    Residential Neighborhood badguy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jsearles22 View Post

    What’s the game?
    I don't want to make it public just yet. But I will soon.

    I'm not revealing some deep, dark secret here. Anyone who has played this particular game for awhile, and bought gold, has had this occur.
    Not this shit again.

    Why don't u ever want to bring anything up? or make anything public? R u holding the developer at bay pretending to be some bitch on some fcked up dating site for nerdy fcks who cant get laid face to face?


    Honestly I think u really r losing your shit.

     
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      SysOp:

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post
    Wait... grown men actually buy meaningless points for real money?
    A friend of mine is addicted to this clash of kings game and said heís spent over 5k lifetime on it to level up his castles and whatever else they do itís serious business.

  12. #32
    this thread is huge lol cause I never thought you'd buy freemium gold from a phone game/app.

  13. #33
    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SysOp View Post
    this thread is huge lol cause I never thought you'd buy freemium gold from a phone game/app.
    i believe there is some huge regulatory framework protecting consumers from games where you essentially buy 'gold' or whatever for your kid and wake up the next day to find out that the kid either accidentally or intentionally bypassed the applications measures to keep them from topping off without your permission.

    i want to say COPA but im not sure and im not going to look it up because im not on the clock.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  14. #34
    NoFraud Poker Room Manager Belly Buster's Avatar
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    The minute you decide to buy the "gold" or whatever they have your money and you no longer have it.

    What happens from that point on is immaterial.
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    "So, yeah. I'm definitely a total fucking retard".
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Belly Buster View Post
    The minute you decide to buy the "gold" or whatever they have your money and you no longer have it.

    What happens from that point on is immaterial.
    Last week's show was talking about poker sites taking the money and not wanting to give the $50 back, seems odd timing.
    When faced with a difficult decision, ask yourself "What would Micon do?", then do the opposite.

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  16. #36
    Bringing up TOS is pointless because the TOS is not the law. A company can't turn something from being illegal to legal. That doesn't mean what happened to Druff was illegal, since I don't know what actually happened. An illegal TOS clause is not enforceable, as anyone with a double or triple digit IQ can deduce.

  17. #37
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS_ View Post
    Bringing up TOS is pointless because the TOS is not the law. A company can't turn something from being illegal to legal. That doesn't mean what happened to Druff was illegal, since I don't know what actually happened. An illegal TOS clause is not enforceable, as anyone with a double or triple digit IQ can deduce.
    This sounds logical, so what is it with these voluminous documents that we faced with and are asked to accept?
    Do TOS documents protect the producers of them? Should we ignore them completely?
    Nothing is more obvious today than the single inability of capital and private enterprise to take care of themselves unaided by the state; they are all the while besieging legislatures for relief from their own incompetency, and "pleading the baby act" through a trained body of lawyers and lobbyists.

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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RS_ View Post
    Bringing up TOS is pointless because the TOS is not the law. A company can't turn something from being illegal to legal. That doesn't mean what happened to Druff was illegal, since I don't know what actually happened. An illegal TOS clause is not enforceable, as anyone with a double or triple digit IQ can deduce.
    This sounds logical, so what is it with these voluminous documents that we faced with and are asked to accept?
    Do TOS documents protect the producers of them? Should we ignore them completely?
    Terms of Service, essentially, tells you "you're not allowed to do this or we'll suspend your service." It may also include stuff that you agree to -- for instance, a casino may say "by participating in this promotion, you allow us to use your name and picture for advertising" or some shit like that (basically, a picture of you with a big check to be put onto their website).

    It's legally enforceable in the sense that a company can restrict your access if you break the rules. It is not legally enforceable if, say, there was a clause that said "if you don't profess Allah as to be the one true god, then we'll hang you". That's obviously an extreme example....but even if you were to sign or agree to that statement, it isn't enforceable, since it's not legal.

    Most of the stuff in a TOS is fairly obvious, like maybe you can't re-sell the product as your own, give it away for free (think music or software), modify or hack the product (eg: Getting "free gold" in a game where it should cost $$$), can't use it for doing something illegal, need a different account type if you're using it for personal vs business purposes (think Microsoft Word/Excel/etc.), can't promote violence/threats/gross images or depictions (think Facebook, Twitter, etc.), as well as what limitations (if any) exist -- eg: You can share your account with up to X people (Netflix, iTunes, etc.?). But all of that stuff needs to be said by the company because they don't want one guy to pay for a Netflix account then have 100,000 people using that one account. They also need to protect themselves legally, and not allow people to redistribute things that are illegal to be redistributed, like music or movies.

    The TOS might be quite lengthy because it's gotta be written in legalese jargon, have to define a bunch of stuff, plus other crap we don't really care about, to make sure the TOS "holds up", just like any other contract.

  19. #39
    Not a lawyer but making the argument of "the TOS is not legally enforceable because then I could put we can shot you in the head and you can't do anything, so ha!" Is pretty shortsided. It defines your remedies, their responsibilities to you and obviously at the end of the day everyone is going to sue everyone, BUT if it is not a gross clause you'll be fighting an uphill fucking battle that you'll most likely not win.

    In this example I would guess they are very clear on their refund policy, state that they are not obligated or responsible for a mistake you make and something tells me you are also agreeing to arbitration (ie giving up your rights for a trail jury). Now obviously you can sue and scream about how they "tricked" you, but unless it is beyond a gross misrepresentation your day in court will be 5 hours waiting and 3min with the judge saying NOPE. Then when you go to the arbitrator he's going to ask if your "class" read the TOS and then before your broke lawyer can argue how it's a scam they'll rule in the company's favor.

    I'll stick to finance but you should come back to real life and stop buying "gold". Also, I know something like this triggers you, but I say this as a friend... if playing the game helped you get better and then you lost some money on it, is it really worth getting worked up about being scammed? How about maybe thinking of it as paying for a prescription, move on and not put yourself in a situation that will stress you out more and impact your health?
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by handicapme View Post
    Not a lawyer but making the argument of "the TOS is not legally enforceable because then I could put we can shot you in the head and you can't do anything, so ha!" Is pretty shortsided. It defines your remedies, their responsibilities to you and obviously at the end of the day everyone is going to sue everyone, BUT if it is not a gross clause you'll be fighting an uphill fucking battle that you'll most likely not win.

    In this example I would guess they are very clear on their refund policy, state that they are not obligated or responsible for a mistake you make and something tells me you are also agreeing to arbitration (ie giving up your rights for a trail jury). Now obviously you can sue and scream about how they "tricked" you, but unless it is beyond a gross misrepresentation your day in court will be 5 hours waiting and 3min with the judge saying NOPE. Then when you go to the arbitrator he's going to ask if your "class" read the TOS and then before your broke lawyer can argue how it's a scam they'll rule in the company's favor.

    I'll stick to finance but you should come back to real life and stop buying "gold". Also, I know something like this triggers you, but I say this as a friend... if playing the game helped you get better and then you lost some money on it, is it really worth getting worked up about being scammed? How about maybe thinking of it as paying for a prescription, move on and not put yourself in a situation that will stress you out more and impact your health?
    A LEGAL TOS is legally enforceable. An illegal clause in a TOS is not legally enforceable. It doesn't matter if it's something crazy like shooting the person or something minor. Legal is legal, illegal is illegal. Whether what happened is legal or illegal is a different story.

    I don't know the details of how this "mistake" happens, but given there are supposedly a bunch of other people this has happened to, it seems like the fault is on the company, meaning people weren't making a mistake, but the software was scamming people.

    Also pretty sure the "you can't sue us" clauses are BS.

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