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Thread: Social Card Clubs of Texas adds additional flight to avoid overlay (plus other shady BS)

  1. #1

    Social Card Clubs of Texas adds additional flight to avoid overlay (plus other shady BS)

    Hey guys, longtime listener to radio from Texas. Got a scandal for you regarding the Social Card Clubs of Texas.

    Please know that poker is not explicitly legal in Texas, and card clubs get around it by branding themselves as private clubs charging membership fees. Social Card Clubs of Texas currently charge a $100 annual membership fee.

    They also need to pull shenanigans as far as holding tournaments and being able to charge an entry fee.

    Social Card Clubs of Texas are currently in the process of hosting a multi-venue $250k guaranteed tournament. You can play Day 1 in either Austin, Houston, Killeen, or San Antonio.

    Buyin is $300 + $50 which already is a bit high (14.3% rake) and you get 12k tourney chips. However the trick comes in where you can get another 12k chips for just $100 more, except that $100 doesn't go into the prize pool! It goes to what they call a charity. However, the charity is called "SCCoT Education and Advocacy Efforts", which is their lobbying group for legalizing poker! This obviously is no charity and is equivalent to another $100 rake. Sure, you can just not pay it, but then you start with half the chips of everyone else, and that's big time -EV, so almost everyone pays it.

    When it's all said and done, you are paying $150 rake on a $300 buyin tourney, which means the rake is 33%. Fucking terrible!!!!

    Here are the details: https://www.socialcardclubsoftexas.org/tournament/

    Well you might think this is the scam I'm talking about, but it's not. At least you can figure this out before you play and just not register if you hate the fact that they are raking 33%.

    Well on Sunday they were advertising an overlay, but didn't explain how far behind they were.

    I sorta quit playing at Texas Cardhouse in Austin (one of the locations), but went there Sunday to see how the games were.

    So.. through table talk I learn they have added ANOTHER first day! This is from the same place that was advertising an overlay earlier in the day via their texts.

    Fucking scumbag move, right???

    See, they had Day 1s in 4 locations on November 30, December 1, and December 2. On December 2 (Sunday) they realized they were way below the $250k guarantee and started texting the overlay. Obv still not enough people showed up so they added a December 7 date at Austin only.

    This place has also allowed private games to ruin the experience. Remember the controversy you talked about on radio regarding Aria doing this shit?

    Well it's happening here too.

    So basically the more likable guys who are more willing to go around fluffing the fish, get them to go into their "private" game. They pull these same players from the public games where they meet them at the cardroom. This keeps out a lot of the better players from the games and actually kills the live games. These places all have these private game rooms.. which is unfortunately legal here unlike Nevada where it's illegal.

    The private game rooms are meant to allow a group of friends to just show up and play together without the public joining in. However the reality is that very few people use them for the intended purpose, and almost all seem to do it to abuse the system by pulling the fish out of public games, creating a 'private' game with them, and shutting out the solid players from the public who want to join it. Management doesn't give a shit and lets it happen.

  2. #2
    Texas card house has the sickest agro players I've ever played with, you pretty much need luck just for your hand to hold.

    True story, I was down to my last $20 at the 1-2 game and within 20 minutes or so I was up to like $800, I think I won like 6 all ins in a row. This pretty much describes the 1-2 atmosphere there, I just kept shoving in pre flop every hand and people kept calling.....lol....

    All in all it's my kind of spot, a lot of people with money to blow and you can byob...

    You can call it "rake", but it really is a membership fee.

    Everything is upfront, they tell you before you pay what the fees are so I really don't see any fraud regarding the cash games.

    People may go to the private rooms but I always see the place packed anytime I drop by...imo...
    "Druff would suck his own dick if it were long enough"- Brandon "drexel" Gerson

    "ann coulter literally has more common sense than pfa."-Sonatine

    "Real grinders supports poker fraud"- Ray Davis


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  3. #3
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Looks like educated people running some of these rooms in Texas.


  4. #4
    I've been watching this. The Texas Cardhouse is a lol place. The dealers are decent. You get free drinks through this elaborate coffee machine. The hourly is $10 which is roughly what it is across Texas. The above picture was not likely from a Texas card club. Part of the way they get around state gambling laws is by charging an hourly access fee. Initially one couldn't tip, but now you can tip cash. They no longer charge hourly access fees for tournaments. All these changes come about because some card clubs do it and aren't busted, so the others see how far they can push it, then they all do it to be competitive. Dallas/FW had their rooms raided due to proximity of Winstar casino. (Not sure if that is true.) Who knows, everywhere but Dallas/FW has tolerated these places even where they didn't previously.

    As far as this tournament. Pretty much a scumbag thing to do. They did add 10k later, but I see they had 132 entries on the added flight. So they think that makes up for their advertising of an "overlay". My take is owners thought this was a great idea (they really don't even play poker and are absentee owners) then started hearing the general consensus "scumbag move". So they threw 10k on top. None of this stuff was mentioned AFAIK until the last initial flight. THen it was labelled as a "miscommunication". The owners are lawyers who basically opened one of these places at the right time and got first mover advantage in Austin. They made the T&C so they could change whatever however they wished.

    I think the owner might overestimated interest outside of Austin. People don't want to win then have to drive 3 hours next weekend to play. They never posted the numbers from the various clubs. Frankly, more shady behavior.
    Facts, reality, brains cannot defeat him.

  5. #5
    Platinum thesparten's Avatar
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    I really like the idea of a card playing social club, and yes: I probably would expect too pay above average rake.

    But don't like what they did here AT ALL..

    Anyway, tournaments take way too long in the real world, NOBODY HAS THAT TIME and if u do.

    Your probably not getting laid enough or experiencing life enouph.

  6. #6
    I'm from Houston. This all normal. The rake is high at all the underground clubs... It's Texas. If you don't like it drive to Louisiana or winstar.

  7. #7
    33%...I mean that should tell you all you need to know

  8. #8
    If they had to add days to get the $250k so be it, what the heck do you want instead, sorry guys only at $190k so too bad. Then youd complain they didn't market enough or something like that. The numbers required to achieve $250k are the numbers, no matter how many days or players it didn't change the requirement to get there.

    The fact the club even exists is a + and anyone who bitches about $100 shouldn't be gambling because clearly you cannot afford to lose.

    Flame suit on!... no flame suit off, I'm a man and would rather be set a blaze bare flesh.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldTrumpsHairPiece View Post

    The fact the club even exists is a + and anyone who bitches about $100 shouldn't be gambling because clearly you cannot afford to lose.
    are you familiar with this board's owner? how do you think he'd fit into the above statement?
    @CursedDiamonds on twitter

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldTrumpsHairPiece View Post

    The fact the club even exists is a + and anyone who bitches about $100 shouldn't be gambling because clearly you cannot afford to lose.
    are you familiar with this board's owner? how do you think he'd fit into the above statement?

    Todd is the exception to this statement. I realize he would break a penny in half if he could (even though he doesn't have to) I suspect.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldTrumpsHairPiece View Post
    If they had to add days to get the $250k so be it, what the heck do you want instead, sorry guys only at $190k so too bad. Then youd complain they didn't market enough or something like that. The numbers required to achieve $250k are the numbers, no matter how many days or players it didn't change the requirement to get there.

    The fact the club even exists is a + and anyone who bitches about $100 shouldn't be gambling because clearly you cannot afford to lose.

    Flame suit on!... no flame suit off, I'm a man and would rather be set a blaze bare flesh.

    This...

    Texas card house is the shizzle, it beats driving to bum fuck Oklahoma just to get one outed on the river.

    Although I was playing in a tournament in Durant a few years ago and learned that mr why not himself, TJ Cloutier, was a frequent tournament player at WinStar, a long with a few other poker pros. So I guess if you're into that shit then it's worth the visit.

    The texas card house is pretty upscale, in a normally safe part of town. So far just one robbery since they've opened. Ever since then they've added additional armed security, and they constantly patrol the premises, and parking lot.

    I would recommend it to anyone visiting looking for a lot of action..
    "Druff would suck his own dick if it were long enough"- Brandon "drexel" Gerson

    "ann coulter literally has more common sense than pfa."-Sonatine

    "Real grinders supports poker fraud"- Ray Davis


    "DRILLED HER GOOD"- HONGKONGER

  12. #12
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldTrumpsHairPiece View Post
    If they had to add days to get the $250k so be it, what the heck do you want instead, sorry guys only at $190k so too bad. Then youd complain they didn't market enough or something like that. The numbers required to achieve $250k are the numbers, no matter how many days or players it didn't change the requirement to get there.

    The fact the club even exists is a + and anyone who bitches about $100 shouldn't be gambling because clearly you cannot afford to lose.

    Flame suit on!... no flame suit off, I'm a man and would rather be set a blaze bare flesh.
    That's a bad way to approach your attitude about guarantees and add-ons, and pretty much "guarantees" the house is going to fuck you repeatedly.

    The whole point of a guarantee is to GUARANTEE that the prize pool will be, at minimum, a certain amount, regardless of how many entries they get.

    It does NOT mean the casino can just keep adding flights until they can get enough entries to meet the guarantee. That defeats the whole purpose of a guarantee in the first place.

    A guarantee benefits the casino because it draws people to the tournament, who otherwise may not have played it.

    A guarantee benefits the players because they will play with extra money in the prize pool if the number of players wouldn't have otherwise caused the pool to be as large as the guarantee -- known as an "overlay".

    As I've said countless times, "If your casino can't afford to risk there being an overlay, then don't run guaranteed tournaments!"

    By running guarantee tournaments and then adding flights until the number of entrants prevents an overlay, the casino is taking all of the upside of the situation (people playing for the guarantee) with none of the downside (risk of an overlay). That's complete bullshit. And if they're going to operate this way, they need to disclose it from the start.

    Furthermore, the $100 add-on thing sucks because it doesn't go into the prize pool.

    It's not about whether you can afford to lose $100.

    It's that you're paying another $100 in rake, causing the actual rake of the tournament to be 33%, which is horrendous.

    Sounds like you're making excuses for the casino.

    I especially hate the attitude of, "If you can't afford to lose XXXX, then don't do YYYY", in regards to something unfair/stupid/shady.

    Reminds me of one time there was a hospital billing error for $120. They wouldn't fix it, and I had tons of arguments with them over the phone. Finally a woman there said to me, "Your bill is $560, so even if we remove the $120, it's still $440. So if you can afford to pay $440, clearly you can afford to pay $560, so what's the big deal?"

    I responded with, "If $120 isn't a big deal, then you pay the $120 for me, and I'll drop this right now."

    She screamed at me, "Why should I pay your $120? I don't owe it!"

    I said, "I don't owe it, either. And that's why I won't pay. Get it now?"

    Believe it or not, that actually got through to her, and she adjusted off the $120.

  13. #13
    All that aside druff, it's still a good atmosphere.....because at the end of the day, the rake is the least of my concerns....I'm more concerned about sitting to the left of the Asian guy...
    "Druff would suck his own dick if it were long enough"- Brandon "drexel" Gerson

    "ann coulter literally has more common sense than pfa."-Sonatine

    "Real grinders supports poker fraud"- Ray Davis


    "DRILLED HER GOOD"- HONGKONGER

  14. #14
    Platinum thesparten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldTrumpsHairPiece View Post
    If they had to add days to get the $250k so be it, what the heck do you want instead, sorry guys only at $190k so too bad. Then youd complain they didn't market enough or something like that. The numbers required to achieve $250k are the numbers, no matter how many days or players it didn't change the requirement to get there.

    The fact the club even exists is a + and anyone who bitches about $100 shouldn't be gambling because clearly you cannot afford to lose.

    Flame suit on!... no flame suit off, I'm a man and would rather be set a blaze bare flesh.
    That's a bad way to approach your attitude about guarantees and add-ons, and pretty much "guarantees" the house is going to fuck you repeatedly.

    The whole point of a guarantee is to GUARANTEE that the prize pool will be, at minimum, a certain amount, regardless of how many entries they get.

    It does NOT mean the casino can just keep adding flights until they can get enough entries to meet the guarantee. That defeats the whole purpose of a guarantee in the first place.

    A guarantee benefits the casino because it draws people to the tournament, who otherwise may not have played it.

    A guarantee benefits the players because they will play with extra money in the prize pool if the number of players wouldn't have otherwise caused the pool to be as large as the guarantee -- known as an "overlay".

    As I've said countless times, "If your casino can't afford to risk there being an overlay, then don't run guaranteed tournaments!"

    By running guarantee tournaments and then adding flights until the number of entrants prevents an overlay, the casino is taking all of the upside of the situation (people playing for the guarantee) with none of the downside (risk of an overlay). That's complete bullshit. And if they're going to operate this way, they need to disclose it from the start.

    Furthermore, the $100 add-on thing sucks because it doesn't go into the prize pool.

    It's not about whether you can afford to lose $100.

    It's that you're paying another $100 in rake, causing the actual rake of the tournament to be 33%, which is horrendous.

    Sounds like you're making excuses for the casino.

    I especially hate the attitude of, "If you can't afford to lose XXXX, then don't do YYYY", in regards to something unfair/stupid/shady.

    Reminds me of one time there was a hospital billing error for $120. They wouldn't fix it, and I had tons of arguments with them over the phone. Finally a woman there said to me, "Your bill is $560, so even if we remove the $120, it's still $440. So if you can afford to pay $440, clearly you can afford to pay $560, so what's the big deal?"

    I responded with, "If $120 isn't a big deal, then you pay the $120 for me, and I'll drop this right now."

    She screamed at me, "Why should I pay your $120? I don't owe it!"

    I said, "I don't owe it, either. And that's why I won't pay. Get it now?"

    Believe it or not, that actually got through to her, and she adjusted off the $120.
    I enjoy breaking druffs balls but I ABSOLUTELY agree with druff on the above..

    I also agree I would definitely expect too pay extra rake + membership BUT THE TOURNAMENT NONE
    SENSE WAS BULLSHIT.

  15. #15
    Y'all just cheap.

     
    Comments
      
      Mintjewlips: This.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by incognito81 View Post
    I'm from Houston. This all normal. The rake is high at all the underground clubs... It's Texas. If you don't like it drive to Louisiana or winstar.
    It is timecharge. Their regular rake isn't that high on tournaments. Also, these places we're talking about in AUstin are hardly 'underground'. Things have changed.

    So now they have added tipping. Previously they didn't allow anyone to tip, which made it a good deal. Management of Texas Cardhouse were notoriously cheap for the longest time. So I have to wonder what the end effect will be. No doubt Texas Cardhouse management will use that to decrease base wages on new hires. They were losing their very best dealers though because tips double the hourly of the staff.

    It is fun watching the whole thing unfold.
    Facts, reality, brains cannot defeat him.

  17. #17
    My favorite time at the cardhouse is sucking out on the river on these flimsy looking beta cucks, I literally play any two cards when I see those chumps in a pot, the lol's that ensue are worth the rake imo..
    "Druff would suck his own dick if it were long enough"- Brandon "drexel" Gerson

    "ann coulter literally has more common sense than pfa."-Sonatine

    "Real grinders supports poker fraud"- Ray Davis


    "DRILLED HER GOOD"- HONGKONGER

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldTrumpsHairPiece View Post
    If they had to add days to get the $250k so be it, what the heck do you want instead, sorry guys only at $190k so too bad. Then youd complain they didn't market enough or something like that. The numbers required to achieve $250k are the numbers, no matter how many days or players it didn't change the requirement to get there.

    The fact the club even exists is a + and anyone who bitches about $100 shouldn't be gambling because clearly you cannot afford to lose.

    Flame suit on!... no flame suit off, I'm a man and would rather be set a blaze bare flesh.
    The problem is they also advertised an overlay at some point to players. Well, if you are never going to have an overlay by just adding additional days then it is basically fraudalent advertising. It seems they realized this issue and then added 10k to the prizepool to make up for this snafu on their part as they didn't want people talking shit about them for years.

    The other part you fail to understand is the $100 isn't something you "lose". You act like you're gambling with the $100. The whole point is you're NOT gambling with the $100. You're just giving it away.

    Luckily i never play there because there are 1/2 games all around town that I can beat !
    Facts, reality, brains cannot defeat him.

  19. #19
    Bronze alpha1243's Avatar
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    As a casino chip collector, these new Texas Private Poker Clubs represent a new wave of chips. The problem is that oddly enough, many casino chip collectors either don't gamble or, if they do, they don't play poker. The idea of frequenting one of these establishments with the sole intent of adding a few chips to their collection is a non-starter due to the membership fees and seat fees (or other rake variants). This leaves the true poker players as the only avenue to hope to add a chip from one of these clubs to my collection. I've had some success in obtaining a few $1 chips, but I'm sure that there are many more poker clubs in Texas. If any PFA'ers live in Texas and have access to $1 chips that I don't already have, I'd be interested in seeing if you can assist me in getting a few. Anyway, here are the ones I have in my collection. If you can help, just PM me. I can PayPal you or send you a chip in trade. Thanks.

    Name:  txalamocardhousef.jpg
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