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Thread: Stand Your Ground Florida Shooter Arrested and Charged

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    Feelin' Stronger Every Day tony bagadonuts's Avatar
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    Stand Your Ground Florida Shooter Arrested and Charged

    Sorry if this was covered in another thread.

    I'm a gun owner, I have a concealed carry permit and I support Stand Your Ground laws as a means to protect a someone from prosecution in a righteous shooting. Common Law typically includes a Duty to Retreat, which SYG eliminates. But appropriate force and imminent peril considerations still have to me made.

    This isn't a righteous shooting. If the victim had followed up the shove with additional aggression then at least a case could be made. But he started backing up when the shooter pulled his gun and at that point the incident was over.

    Additionally, based on the shooters actions towards the victims wife a case could be made that the victim was defending his wife against a potential threat.

    Reports are that the sheriff's detectives wanted to move forward with an arrest but the Sheriff put the kybosh on it. Glad the DA moved forward with charges, this asshole was looking for trouble IMO.

    I do find it interesting that the headline below is "White Man charged with killing unarmed Black Man", but that's a topic for another thread.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-man...160637411.html


     
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      duped_samaritan: well said
      
      GrenadaRoger: thx for posting...worth studying
      
      Neverheeb: didn't need to fire a kill shot :/

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    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    Reading this passage of the article, I now think that the sheriff has played both sides of this case for votes.

    Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri originally declined to charge Drejka, saying one day after the shooting that the man was protected by Florida's stand-your-ground law. The sheriff passed the case to prosecutors for a final decision.

    The law says people can use deadly force if they believe they are in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and have no obligation to retreat. Under a change made by the Legislature last year, if a suspect raises a stand-your-ground defense, prosecutors must prove the law doesn't apply.

    Gualtieri said in a statement Monday that he supported McCabe's decision.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony bagadonuts View Post
    Sorry if this was covered in another thread.

    I'm a gun owner, I have a concealed carry permit and I support Stand Your Ground laws as a means to protect a someone from prosecution in a righteous shooting. Common Law typically includes a Duty to Retreat, which SYG eliminates. But appropriate force and imminent peril considerations still have to me made.

    This isn't a righteous shooting. If the victim had followed up the shove with additional aggression then at least a case could be made. But he started backing up when the shooter pulled his gun and at that point the incident was over.

    Additionally, based on the shooters actions towards the victims wife a case could be made that the victim was defending his wife against a potential threat.

    Reports are that the sheriff's detectives wanted to move forward with an arrest but the Sheriff put the kybosh on it. Glad the DA moved forward with charges, this asshole was looking for trouble IMO.

    I do find it interesting that the headline below is "White Man charged with killing unarmed Black Man", but that's a topic for another thread.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-man...160637411.html

    And if it was the other way around, there would be no mention of the race of the suspect, nor a picture, and that is even assuming this would be a national story, which it most certainly wouldn't be. The fact this is even a national story and the ridiculously racist, inflammatory headline are all a part and parcel of the media's cultural Marxist master plan.

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    Platinum GrenadaRoger's Avatar
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    its a tough call, but based only on what I see, I think the threat was over once the gun was drawn, so the shooting wasn't justified...

    but I have the advantage of seeing the victims right hand, which when the shot occurred, was near where a holster would be worn...the shooter could not see the hand, and it would look to the shooter as if the victim was about to draw

    in .3 secs a person can draw, present and shoot...it take the target that long to recognize what is happening...as Massad Ayoob said, "if you wait to see a gun, you will see what comes out of it"...so here the shooter may have thought he was about to be draw on and shot at...key question/factor is "did the shooter yell at the victim to raise his hands?"...if he did and the victim did not, then shooting seems far more reasonable to me

    so, as is said when reviewing a poker hand, "it depends"

    btw, notice the victim did not drop instantly when shot, and was able to walk back into the store before expiring (unlike TV Westerns when a single bullet kills instantly)

     
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      tony bagadonuts: Massad Ayoob rep
    Last edited by GrenadaRoger; 08-13-2018 at 07:34 PM.
    (long before there was a PFA i had my Grenade & Crossbones avatar at DD)

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    Don't worry, he'll be found not guilty.
    TRUMP 2024!

    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Just non-stop unrelenting LGBT propaganda being shoved down our throats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PLOL View Post
    Don't worry, he'll be found not guilty.
    Yep. The nice black lady should have not been so fucking lazy and parked in a regular spot for starters. It is questionable .. Problem is she gets out of her car so you could argue guy was defending her but meh not sure. Once you get shoved by an urban dweller so hard you are knocked down, you have 0 clue what said urban person is going to do next. I'd give him a pass on this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    And if it was the other way around, there would be no mention of the race of the suspect, nor a picture, and that is even assuming this would be a national story, which it most certainly wouldn't be. The fact this is even a national story and the ridiculously racist, inflammatory headline are all a part and parcel of the media's cultural Marxist master plan.
    And his ass would have went strait to jail without collecting $200...
    Last edited by duped_samaritan; 08-13-2018 at 07:16 PM.

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    Feelin' Stronger Every Day tony bagadonuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrenadaRoger View Post
    its a tough call, but based only on what I see, I think the threat was over once the gun was drawn, so the shooting wasn't justified...

    but I have the advantage of seeing the victims right hand, which when the shot occurred, was near where a holster would be worn...the shooter could not see the hand, and it would look to the shooter as if the victim was about to draw

    in .3 secs a person can draw, present and shoot...it take the target that long to recognize what is happening...as Massad Ayoob said, "if you wait to see a gun, you will see what comes out of it"...so here the shooter may have thought he was about to be draw on and shot at...key question/factor is "did the shooter yell at the victim to raise his hands?"...if he did and the victim did not, then shooting seems far more reasonable to me

    so, as is said when reviewing a poker hand "it depends"

    btw, notice the victim did not drop instantly when shot, and was able to walk back into the store before expiring (unlike TV Westerns when a single bullet kills instantly)
    Well put GR, coincidentally I went to grab my copy of "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob right before I read your post. It was recommended to me by my firearms instructor in the class I took before buying my first handgun. Very important book and a must read IMO.

    Even if the shooter couldn't see the hand, the fact is the hands were empty and the dude was retreating when shot. If your going to carry open or concealed, with that comes a tremendous responsibility.

    If the shooter was really that fearful of getting beaten to death by a big black dude, then maybe berating his wife wasn't his most prudent course of action.

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    Platinum GrenadaRoger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony bagadonuts View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GrenadaRoger View Post
    its a tough call, but based only on what I see, I think the threat was over once the gun was drawn, so the shooting wasn't justified...

    but I have the advantage of seeing the victims right hand, which when the shot occurred, was near where a holster would be worn...the shooter could not see the hand, and it would look to the shooter as if the victim was about to draw

    in .3 secs a person can draw, present and shoot...it take the target that long to recognize what is happening...as Massad Ayoob said, "if you wait to see a gun, you will see what comes out of it"...so here the shooter may have thought he was about to be draw on and shot at...key question/factor is "did the shooter yell at the victim to raise his hands?"...if he did and the victim did not, then shooting seems far more reasonable to me

    so, as is said when reviewing a poker hand "it depends"

    btw, notice the victim did not drop instantly when shot, and was able to walk back into the store before expiring (unlike TV Westerns when a single bullet kills instantly)
    Well put GR, coincidentally I went to grab my copy of "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob right before I read your post. It was recommended to me by my firearms instructor in the class I took before buying my first handgun. Very important book and a must read IMO.

    Even if the shooter couldn't see the hand, the fact is the hands were empty and the dude was retreating when shot. If your going to carry open or concealed, with that comes a tremendous responsibility.

    If the shooter was really that fearful of getting beaten to death by a big black dude, then maybe berating his wife wasn't his most prudent course of action.
    In Gravest Extreme, although some 30 years old, has lessons that still appliy. Also good is Ayoob's book "Deadly Force" which tells what one can expect from the courts if one is involved in a self-defense shooting.

    I'm glad you posted this news item...it's better to read/study such incidents and decide beforehand on how to react/what to avoid/do different rather than repeat a mistake made by someone else.

    In this instance the shooter lost 'situational awareness' by getting overly focused in verbal confrontation with the woman and he was blind sided. Also, we don't know if he told the victim to show his hands...if I am in a situation like that, I certainly will.
    Last edited by GrenadaRoger; 08-13-2018 at 10:03 PM.
    (long before there was a PFA i had my Grenade & Crossbones avatar at DD)

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    This is why I have mixed feelings about conceal/carry for average citizens.

    There is legitimate data showing that violent crime is lower where conceal/carry is legal and common (presumably because of the criminals fearing being killed), but then there's situations like this.

    The problem is that people don't always think rationally in the heat of the moment, and may pull out their weapon and blow someone away in situations where it's not really justified.

    Here it's a mixed bag because the guy was attacked and knocked to the ground without any kind of physical provocation, but as has already been pointed out here, he was far enough away to where he could have simply said, "Hands up!" without shooting, and then shot the guy if he continued aggression.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I honestly don't feel all that sorry for the victim, though.

    Just because some guy is berating your wife, that doesn't give you the right to blindside him and knock his ass to the ground.

    So when you do shit like that to strangers, especially in a conceal/carry state, you are taking a risk.

    It's not like the guy was physically going after his wife in some way. I think the victim was probably a macho hothead who felt like he wasn't going to let whitey crack wise at his wife, and immediately resorted to violence.

     
    Comments
      
      JimmyG_415: Unreal, That dude deserved a push WAY more than that guy deserved to die.
      
      MumblesBadly: What JimmyG_415 said! (Seriously, Druff! What kind of conservotard pill did you take before considering this issue???)
      
      1marley1: c’mon man
      
      snowtracks: Druff but Fair
      
      splitthis: Whitey rep

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    tldr
    just kidding
    just happy to see this member
    that's not a sexual comment,
    members being members
    it's a good thing
    carry on

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    Platinum GrenadaRoger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    This is why I have mixed feelings about conceal/carry for average citizens.

    There is legitimate data showing that violent crime is lower where conceal/carry is legal and common (presumably because of the criminals fearing being killed), but then there's situations like this.

    The problem is that people don't always think rationally in the heat of the moment, and may pull out their weapon and blow someone away in situations where it's not really justified.

    Here it's a mixed bag because the guy was attacked and knocked to the ground without any kind of physical provocation, but as has already been pointed out here, he was far enough away to where he could have simply said, "Hands up!" without shooting, and then shot the guy if he continued aggression.
    in California, when one can obtain a concealed carry, i'd say that the permitted person is no longer an average citizen (meaning one uneducated about firearm safety and responsibility), one has to go through a good deal of training first to obtain a permit...unfortunately for those in counties along the coast, you must be a special person before you begin training (that is a judge, ex-police, celebrity, or politically connected) to have any hope of getting a permit; indeed an ordinary guy with all the training possible won't get one in those cities...by contrast, in the rural counties inland an average citizen will get a permit after undergoing the training in conceal carry to become the non-average educated citizen entitled to carry---the result is a situation in the coastal counties that is ripe for corruption for the politically powerful, giving permits to friends/contributors of mayors/police chiefs, councilmen....

    in short: California sucks ass
    Last edited by GrenadaRoger; 08-14-2018 at 12:51 AM.
    (long before there was a PFA i had my Grenade & Crossbones avatar at DD)

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    Feelin' Stronger Every Day tony bagadonuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    This is why I have mixed feelings about conceal/carry for average citizens.

    There is legitimate data showing that violent crime is lower where conceal/carry is legal and common (presumably because of the criminals fearing being killed), but then there's situations like this.

    The problem is that people don't always think rationally in the heat of the moment, and may pull out their weapon and blow someone away in situations where it's not really justified.

    Here it's a mixed bag because the guy was attacked and knocked to the ground without any kind of physical provocation, but as has already been pointed out here, he was far enough away to where he could have simply said, "Hands up!" without shooting, and then shot the guy if he continued aggression.
    I hear you Druff, and as a gun owner I absolutely support training requirements prior to receiving a concealed carry permit. Of course I'm in WA state which is an open carry state and doesn't require any training whatsoever. I've taken the training and believe that anyone even considering purchasing a firearm would be well advised to do the same.

    I tried to put myself in the shooters shoes (shooter's shoes?), and my take is that the guy's used to talking shit with impunity and was surprised and humiliated when he got shoved to the ground and knee jerked his weapon.

    Not an appropriate response on either a legal or moral basis.

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    Platinum JimmyG_415's Avatar
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    So you come out of a store and this guy
    Name:  stand.PNG
Views: 297
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    is yelling at your wife/GF w/your kid(s) in the car, (like he had ANY authority to do so)
    an you'd just come out and have a conversation?.........Those are the words of a wimp.

    Actually I could see Druff doing that, "Um Gee, are you handicapped? You really shouldn't be parking there"

    And the Sheriff who said essentially the same thing, (who now is behind the charges) he won't last long.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I honestly don't feel all that sorry for the victim, though.

    Just because some guy is berating your wife, that doesn't give you the right to blindside him and knock his ass to the ground.

    So when you do shit like that to strangers, especially in a conceal/carry state, you are taking a risk.

    It's not like the guy was physically going after his wife in some way. I think the victim was probably a macho hothead who felt like he wasn't going to let whitey crack wise at his wife, and immediately resorted to violence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony bagadonuts View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    This is why I have mixed feelings about conceal/carry for average citizens.

    There is legitimate data showing that violent crime is lower where conceal/carry is legal and common (presumably because of the criminals fearing being killed), but then there's situations like this.

    The problem is that people don't always think rationally in the heat of the moment, and may pull out their weapon and blow someone away in situations where it's not really justified.

    Here it's a mixed bag because the guy was attacked and knocked to the ground without any kind of physical provocation, but as has already been pointed out here, he was far enough away to where he could have simply said, "Hands up!" without shooting, and then shot the guy if he continued aggression.
    I hear you Druff, and as a gun owner I absolutely support training requirements prior to receiving a concealed carry permit. Of course I'm in WA state which is an open carry state and doesn't require any training whatsoever. I've taken the training and believe that anyone even considering purchasing a firearm would be well advised to do the same.

    I tried to put myself in the shooters shoes (shooter's shoes?), and my take is that the guy's used to talking shit with impunity and was surprised and humiliated when he got shoved to the ground and knee jerked his weapon.

    Not an appropriate response on either a legal or moral basis.
    The points both of raise brings up the issue of whether the government is either sufficiently motivated and/or organizationally capable of assessing whether someone who wants to legally carry a gun isn’t a serious risk to others by doing so. Frankly, I don’t believe so. And how automobile insurance is managed in most modern aocieties speaks to the need for non-government companies are much more likely to work in regulated partnership in managing that risk for the public.

    For example, it would fully consistent with the 2nd Amendment for the federal government and/or states to require that individuals who own or carry guns have insurance to do so for (1) all ofnthe guns they own and (2) whether they are allowed by the state to open and/or concealed carry. Also, the government could require gun sellers, either as licensed dealers or as individuals, to verify that the person they sell the gun to has the appropriate insurance to own/carry gun as allowed by the state. And if they don’t have documentation if such verification, the seller bars shared civil liability with the shooter for civil damages potentially owed to the victims. That way, individuals who are likely to mentally unbalanced like this idiot wannabe cop, as well as that Zimmerman fuck who violated the community watch rules by carrying a gun while patroling the neighborhood) would be much less likely to be able to own and/carry guns.
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    Dude with the gun was looking for trouble and found it.

    You don't get to start an altercation, then claim self defense when someone responds. That is not how "self defense" works anywhere outside of FL.

    Just another bitch with a gun.


     
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      snowtracks: all you need rep

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I honestly don't feel all that sorry for the victim, though.

    Just because some guy is berating your wife, that doesn't give you the right to blindside him and knock his ass to the ground.

    So when you do shit like that to strangers, especially in a conceal/carry state, you are taking a risk.

    It's not like the guy was physically going after his wife in some way. I think the victim was probably a macho hothead who felt like he wasn't going to let whitey crack wise at his wife, and immediately resorted to violence.

    The Shooter went way overboard .. He just had to pull the Gun Out and Nothing would of escalated. Sure he got pushed but he was being an idiot! (from the picture looks like handicapme's big brother)

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowtracks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I honestly don't feel all that sorry for the victim, though.

    Just because some guy is berating your wife, that doesn't give you the right to blindside him and knock his ass to the ground.

    So when you do shit like that to strangers, especially in a conceal/carry state, you are taking a risk.

    It's not like the guy was physically going after his wife in some way. I think the victim was probably a macho hothead who felt like he wasn't going to let whitey crack wise at his wife, and immediately resorted to violence.

    The Shooter went way overboard .. He just had to pull the Gun Out and Nothing would of escalated. Sure he got pushed but he was being an idiot! (from the picture looks like handicapme's big brother)

    it must be super difficult to still have these sorts of feelings when you read posts like that. like, this isnt the forum for this. you know this to be true in your heart.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

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    Bronze RS_'s Avatar
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    LOL @ her saying she has the right to park wherever she wants to park. No......no, you don't.


    So the woman is getting out of her car while Drejka gets blindsided and knocked to the ground. Idk about you, but if I get attacked out of nowhere, I'm not going to be thinking the guy is going to help me up and offer me a candy bar or some shit. I see the guy might be reaching for a gun in that case....I very well may pull the trigger, too. It takes almost no time to pull a gun and shoot someone, or even jump on top of him and start beating the shit out of someone. Not to mention the woman got out of the car, which happening right when he got knocked over, would be seen as a sign of aggression, like he's about to get jumped.

    It's not like you're playing chess and have all the time in the world to make a decision. A split second could be the difference between you dying or surviving. As the Ancient Hawaiians used to say, "It doesn't matter if you made the right decision, if you're dead."



    I bet that woman isn't going to be parking in handicapped spots anytime soon.

     
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