Stand Your Ground Florida Shooter Arrested and Charged

[tony bagadonuts]

Sorry if this was covered in another thread.

I'm a gun owner, I have a concealed carry permit and I support Stand Your Ground laws as a means to protect a someone from prosecution in a righteous shooting. Common Law typically includes a Duty to Retreat, which SYG eliminates. But appropriate force and imminent peril considerations still have to me made.

This isn't a righteous shooting. If the victim had followed up the shove with additional aggression then at least a case could be made. But he started backing up when the shooter pulled his gun and at that point the incident was over.

Additionally, based on the shooters actions towards the victims wife a case could be made that the victim was defending his wife against a potential threat.

Reports are that the sheriff's detectives wanted to move forward with an arrest but the Sheriff put the kybosh on it. Glad the DA moved forward with charges, this asshole was looking for trouble IMO.

I do find it interesting that the headline below is "White Man charged with killing unarmed Black Man", but that's a topic for another thread.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-man...160637411.html

[MumblesBadly]

Reading this passage of the article, I now think that the sheriff has played both sides of this case for votes.

Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri originally declined to charge Drejka, saying one day after the shooting that the man was protected by Florida's stand-your-ground law. The sheriff passed the case to prosecutors for a final decision.

The law says people can use deadly force if they believe they are in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and have no obligation to retreat. Under a change made by the Legislature last year, if a suspect raises a stand-your-ground defense, prosecutors must prove the law doesn't apply.

Gualtieri said in a statement Monday that he supported McCabe's decision.

[ErickAA]

Sorry if this was covered in another thread.

I'm a gun owner, I have a concealed carry permit and I support Stand Your Ground laws as a means to protect a someone from prosecution in a righteous shooting. Common Law typically includes a Duty to Retreat, which SYG eliminates. But appropriate force and imminent peril considerations still have to me made.

This isn't a righteous shooting. If the victim had followed up the shove with additional aggression then at least a case could be made. But he started backing up when the shooter pulled his gun and at that point the incident was over.

Additionally, based on the shooters actions towards the victims wife a case could be made that the victim was defending his wife against a potential threat.

Reports are that the sheriff's detectives wanted to move forward with an arrest but the Sheriff put the kybosh on it. Glad the DA moved forward with charges, this asshole was looking for trouble IMO.

I do find it interesting that the headline below is "White Man charged with killing unarmed Black Man", but that's a topic for another thread.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-man...160637411.html

And if it was the other way around, there would be no mention of the race of the suspect, nor a picture, and that is even assuming this would be a national story, which it most certainly wouldn't be. The fact this is even a national story and the ridiculously racist, inflammatory headline are all a part and parcel of the media's cultural Marxist master plan.

[GrenadaRoger]

its a tough call, but based only on what I see, I think the threat was over once the gun was drawn, so the shooting wasn't justified...

but I have the advantage of seeing the victims right hand, which when the shot occurred, was near where a holster would be worn...the shooter could not see the hand, and it would look to the shooter as if the victim was about to draw

in .3 secs a person can draw, present and shoot...it take the target that long to recognize what is happening...as Massad Ayoob said, "if you wait to see a gun, you will see what comes out of it"...so here the shooter may have thought he was about to be draw on and shot at...key question/factor is "did the shooter yell at the victim to raise his hands?"...if he did and the victim did not, then shooting seems far more reasonable to me

so, as is said when reviewing a poker hand, "it depends"

btw, notice the victim did not drop instantly when shot, and was able to walk back into the store before expiring (unlike TV Westerns when a single bullet kills instantly)

[PLOL]

Don't worry, he'll be found not guilty.

[donkdowndonedied]

Don't worry, he'll be found not guilty.

Yep. The nice black lady should have not been so fucking lazy and parked in a regular spot for starters. It is questionable .. Problem is she gets out of her car so you could argue guy was defending her but meh not sure. Once you get shoved by an urban dweller so hard you are knocked down, you have 0 clue what said urban person is going to do next. I'd give him a pass on this one.

[tony bagadonuts]

its a tough call, but based only on what I see, I think the threat was over once the gun was drawn, so the shooting wasn't justified...

but I have the advantage of seeing the victims right hand, which when the shot occurred, was near where a holster would be worn...the shooter could not see the hand, and it would look to the shooter as if the victim was about to draw

in .3 secs a person can draw, present and shoot...it take the target that long to recognize what is happening...as Massad Ayoob said, "if you wait to see a gun, you will see what comes out of it"...so here the shooter may have thought he was about to be draw on and shot at...key question/factor is "did the shooter yell at the victim to raise his hands?"...if he did and the victim did not, then shooting seems far more reasonable to me

so, as is said when reviewing a poker hand "it depends"

btw, notice the victim did not drop instantly when shot, and was able to walk back into the store before expiring (unlike TV Westerns when a single bullet kills instantly)

Well put GR, coincidentally I went to grab my copy of "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob right before I read your post. It was recommended to me by my firearms instructor in the class I took before buying my first handgun. Very important book and a must read IMO.

Even if the shooter couldn't see the hand, the fact is the hands were empty and the dude was retreating when shot. If your going to carry open or concealed, with that comes a tremendous responsibility.

If the shooter was really that fearful of getting beaten to death by a big black dude, then maybe berating his wife wasn't his most prudent course of action.

[GrenadaRoger]

its a tough call, but based only on what I see, I think the threat was over once the gun was drawn, so the shooting wasn't justified...

but I have the advantage of seeing the victims right hand, which when the shot occurred, was near where a holster would be worn...the shooter could not see the hand, and it would look to the shooter as if the victim was about to draw

in .3 secs a person can draw, present and shoot...it take the target that long to recognize what is happening...as Massad Ayoob said, "if you wait to see a gun, you will see what comes out of it"...so here the shooter may have thought he was about to be draw on and shot at...key question/factor is "did the shooter yell at the victim to raise his hands?"...if he did and the victim did not, then shooting seems far more reasonable to me

so, as is said when reviewing a poker hand "it depends"

btw, notice the victim did not drop instantly when shot, and was able to walk back into the store before expiring (unlike TV Westerns when a single bullet kills instantly)

Well put GR, coincidentally I went to grab my copy of "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob right before I read your post. It was recommended to me by my firearms instructor in the class I took before buying my first handgun. Very important book and a must read IMO.

Even if the shooter couldn't see the hand, the fact is the hands were empty and the dude was retreating when shot. If your going to carry open or concealed, with that comes a tremendous responsibility.

If the shooter was really that fearful of getting beaten to death by a big black dude, then maybe berating his wife wasn't his most prudent course of action.

In Gravest Extreme, although some 30 years old, has lessons that still appliy. Also good is Ayoob's book "Deadly Force" which tells what one can expect from the courts if one is involved in a self-defense shooting.

I'm glad you posted this news item...it's better to read/study such incidents and decide beforehand on how to react/what to avoid/do different rather than repeat a mistake made by someone else.

In this instance the shooter lost 'situational awareness' by getting overly focused in verbal confrontation with the woman and he was blind sided. Also, we don't know if he told the victim to show his hands...if I am in a situation like that, I certainly will.

[Dan Druff]

This is why I have mixed feelings about conceal/carry for average citizens.

There is legitimate data showing that violent crime is lower where conceal/carry is legal and common (presumably because of the criminals fearing being killed), but then there's situations like this.

The problem is that people don't always think rationally in the heat of the moment, and may pull out their weapon and blow someone away in situations where it's not really justified.

Here it's a mixed bag because the guy was attacked and knocked to the ground without any kind of physical provocation, but as has already been pointed out here, he was far enough away to where he could have simply said, "Hands up!" without shooting, and then shot the guy if he continued aggression.

[duped_samaritan]

And if it was the other way around, there would be no mention of the race of the suspect, nor a picture, and that is even assuming this would be a national story, which it most certainly wouldn't be. The fact this is even a national story and the ridiculously racist, inflammatory headline are all a part and parcel of the media's cultural Marxist master plan.

And his ass would have went strait to jail without collecting $200...