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Thread: Horrible ruling at One Drop brings scrutiny to "I thought I saw this card exposed" ruling

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Horrible ruling at One Drop brings scrutiny to "I thought I saw this card exposed" ruling

    There was a big 3-way all-in at the $1,000,000 Buy In WSOP One Drop event, involving Byron Kaverman, Fedor Holz, and Rick Salomon. Table was 5-handed at the time.

    With 5 players left in the event, a short-stacked Kaverman shoved with A5 clubs Fedor called with TT. Then Salomon found he had AK hearts, but accidentally exposed the ace of hearts while looking at his hand.



    The problem was that the exposure was fairly quick, and wasn't super-obvious. Salomon went all-in himself. Fedor was closing the action. No one was going to act behind, and there would be no postflop play. The other two players at the table were out of the hand.

    Fedor said that he saw the ace of hearts in Salomon's hand.

    Jack Effel, WSOP tournament director, made the peculiar decision to check Salomon's cards and exposed the ace of hearts when indeed that's what he had.

    Fedor made the call, and ended up scoring a double-knockout despite the AK2 flop, when a T landed on the river.

    The reason this decision was so bad was that nobody was left to act besides Fedor. If Fedor thought he saw an ace of hearts, he was welcome to factor that into his decision to fold or call the double-all-in, but there was no way this should have been verified for him.

    Furthermore, since it was a double-all-in, Rick's cards would have been exposed anyway once Fedor was done acting. Therefore, exposing it before Fedor finished acting only served to give him more info. Even if Byron Kaverman had seen the ace of hearts clearly, he would have seen it AFTER he went all-in, thus it did not affect his decision.

    In addition, people were a little bothered that Salomon exposed the ace in the first place. Was he trying to help Fedor in some way? Induce/discourage action? Poker pro DJ Mackinnon demanded answers, but he had to get them from Seth Palansky, because Effel has quit Twitter.










    Of course, this logic is flawed because there was no reason to expose the card at this point with ONLY Fedor left to act, since Fedor was the only one acting after Salomon. No matter what Fedor thought he saw, there's no way it affected anyone else, as they had all acted BEFORE the exposure.

    Several players pointed out that this ruling could set a very bad precedent for angle-shooting. If someone goes all-in and you're facing a decision, you can take a guess as to which cards you think they might have, and then claim you "might have seen" one of of them. Taking a very simple example, say I have KK in the first round of a $1500 NL event, where everyone is deep compared to the blinds. I get in a raising war with an opponent, who goes all-in. Obviously I'm happy to run out the KK against everything except AA. Before calling, I simply say, "Hey, I thought I saw him flash an ace. Can the floor verify and expose the ace if I saw the flash correctly?" If the floor does that and exposes an ace for me, then I know there's a good chance he has aces, and can lay it down. If the floor says, "No ace, you saw it wrong", then I know for sure I have him crushed (or at worst he has the other KK), and I snap call! Horrible!

    Sadly, the WSOP doesn't want to admit they simply made a mistake with this ruling.

    However, believe it or not, Effel technically followed the posted tournament rules with his decision.




    Clearly there should have been an exception made here, given the circumstances. The WSOP tournament rules also grant the power to the floorman or tournament director to make rule exceptions when common sense dictates it's proper to do so. This was one of those times.

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    Gold Shizzmoney's Avatar
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    Full hand in question for those who missed it:


     
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      duped_samaritan:
    http://www.miraclecovers.com

    "Donk down, that’s what you say to someone after they have lost 28K straight?" - Phil Hellmuth, online

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    Diamond Tellafriend's Avatar
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    Polk has a good evaluation of the hand with a humorous anecdote about Solomon.

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    Cubic Zirconia
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    I don’t agree with anyone on this, I see the situation for what it was. Saloman was obvious angle shooting. I have only seen one video that shows the beginning of the hand and it looks like he looked at his cards like a normal human being, then when it gets around to his turn to act he suddenly has a spaz attack and picks up his cards like a two year old. And how convenient that the card he actually turned face up ( not flashed) turned out to be the ace. He was so obviously trying to influence fedors decision, and wanted him to think he had aces.


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    Diamond TheXFactor's Avatar
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    Is Rick Salomon angle shooting by accidentally showing an ace? I doubt it. He looked like he didn't know what the fuck he was doing, just like on the Paris Hilton sex tape. Fedor Holz would have called anyway but he figured out Rick Salomon didn't have aces.

    Could Fedor Holz get laid if he didn't have a lot of money? No fucking way.


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    Gold Shizzmoney's Avatar
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    The explanation for Rick Solomon showing a card is: "He snorted up the 30 yard line just an hour ago"
    http://www.miraclecovers.com

    "Donk down, that’s what you say to someone after they have lost 28K straight?" - Phil Hellmuth, online

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    Cubic Zirconia Moral Fiber's Avatar
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    On the 7/19 show Druff calls Fedor out for a possible angle shoot. What? Thats a pretty bold accusation.

    When you watch the replay you can clearly see Fedor just sitting there after Solomon flashes his cards. He doesn't respond, react, or even say anything. Wouldn't a true angler, who has gone through these angle opportunities in his head, immediately raise his hand and say "hey, I think I saw an Ace?" Effel is standing right there but Fedor makes no reaction to the exposed card. In fact, what is even more unclear is how the discussion about the exposed hand came up at all.

    Druff, now that you can watch the hand as it actually went down, do you still think Fedor was angling in this spot?

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    Silver JohnCommode's Avatar
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    Salomon should have been penalized heavily because he was one of the 29 listed executive producers associated with, perhaps, the worst organized crime movie ever made: Gotti with John Travolta.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/re...review-1112262

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    Cubic Zirconia
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    I find it hilarious that you all actually think the fault lies on the tournament director. He did his job, by the book..but the real question is how any of you could possibly believe that someone playing in a million dollar buy-in tournament could possibly accidentally literally turn one card face up! Again! Not an accidental flash!! I have played with people smoking crack at the table, once a guy poured about a half a ounce on the felt and cut it up with his cards!! All the while never exposing them. I have played with blind people, one was an Omaha player and he picked one card up at a time and held it about 2 inches from his face, then the dealer would call out the board cards for him. Another guy, who was completely blind I played with in Reno in the 80’s..one of the best players I’ve ever played with! He had someone, sometimes an off duty dealer, or a friend or whoever would sit behind him and whisper to him his hole cards, then the dealer would call the action, like good dealers did back in the day! Say like the 1-3-6-9 seats called..within a half hour or so he had a really good read on how people played. Then there’s the kid now that plays the circuit, with no arms! He uses his feet to look at his cards. You’ll never find him exposing his cards.
    But I digress...it’s a pleasure to have y’all out there playing in and commenting on this game we all love...
    BTW...Rick might have acted in a few porns, but he’s no actor!! What’s the ol saying...Ray Charles could have seen that shit!!


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  11. #11
    Cubic Zirconia
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    BTW! The reason Fedor doesn’t say anything is because he really didn’t even have time, it was such a blatant and obvious violation that even the tournament director caught it!! The same reason Solomon, in his best acting performance to date didn’t get upset or even try to feign disappointment that his ace was exposed...for fucks sake!!


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