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Thread: MoviePass: The trainwreck on its way to a complete derail

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    MoviePass: The trainwreck on its way to a complete derail

    When I first heard about MoviePass, I thought it was a brilliant idea. You would pay $10/month to see unlimited movies in any theater (maximum one per day). Great for the movie-loving consumer. The seats would have to be purchased "day of" -- meaning that MoviePass couldn't be used to grab advance seats at highly awaited premieres, which would clearly fill up beforehand.

    I assumed that they had made deals with theaters all across the US to basically reimburse them very little for seats which would have gone empty.

    The genius in what I assumed was the arrangement was that movie theaters have empty seats in the vast majority of their showings, and sometimes the theaters are almost entirely empty. This would benefit the theaters, as the cost of filling those empty seats is almost zero, so even a small percentage payment of the ticket price would be worth it. Furthermore, the theater would also make money on the (very overpriced) concessions sold to these customers.

    So this finally would bridge the gap between the theaters whining, "Why are there 3 people seeing this movie at 3pm on Wednesday?" and the consumers whining, "I don't want to pay $12 per ticket to see a movie first-run. If I could see the movie in a decent theater for far cheaper, I would totally go."

    But that's not really how MoviePass works.

    In reality, MoviePass supposedly reimburses the movie theaters for the full cost of the ticket! (I write "supposedly", because it's possible they struck some deals with certain theaters to pay less.)

    So if you're paying them $10/month, and you're going to $150 worth of movies in that month, isn't MoviePass taking a huge haircut?

    In fact, even one ticket per month ($12 in many markets) would cause MoviePass to lose money on that customer.

    How could they possibly be profitable?

    This article from Wired claims that MoviePass' real revenue sources include movie-habit datamining, promoting lesser-known independent films, and splitting concession stand purchases.

    Yes, splitting concession stand purchases. MoviePass has approached theaters around the country and demanded that they split the profits from the concession stands, according to the percentage of people who purchased their tickets with MoviePass. So if 5% of the tickets were purchased with MoviePass at a theater, then the theater is supposed to cough up 2.5% of the concession stand profits of the day to MoviePass.

    Not surprisingly, some of the bigger theater chains balked at this, especially AMC. This caused MoviePass to turn off certain big-city AMC theaters from its service in the spring, hoping to pressure AMC into submission, only to quietly turn it back on again when AMC finally came to some undisclosed terms with them.

    The theaters have no choice but to accept MoviePass because it functions as a normal debit card (which only works at movie theaters).

    Also of concern: The terms of service of MoviePass are extremely obnoxious.

    MoviePass is worried that several people will share an account, and this paranoia has led to a highly restrictive, obnoxious terms of service, including the odd term that your account will be suspended if you don't use the latest version of their app (lol).

    In the meantime, AMC opened up their own internal version of MoviePass. While AMC's version only allows three movies per week, only works at their theaters, and costs twice as much as MoviePass, it does allow people to book tickets well in advance, and also gives them discounts on concessions.


    So how is MoviePass doing?

    Their stock, which was $39 in October, closed at 18 cents yesterday.



    Here is a laughable interview with their CEO, who seems quite delusional: https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/12/med...ock/index.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    In the meantime, AMC opened up their own internal version of MoviePass. While AMC's version only allows three movies per week, only works at their theaters, and costs twice as much as MoviePass, it does allow people to book tickets well in advance, and also gives them discounts on concessions.
    You can also get premium AMC tix like 3D, iMAX, dine-in, etc, that you can't get with Moviepass.

    Didn't realize Movie Pass was a public company. I was about to sign up for them, but now I wonder if they'll be bankrupt before I do. Just be sure to do month to month.
    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Just non-stop unrelenting LGBT propaganda being shoved down our throats.

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    Platinum mulva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post



    So how is MoviePass doing?

    Their stock, which was $39 in October, closed at 18 cents yesterday.



    Here is a laughable interview with their CEO, who seems quite delusional: https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/12/med...ock/index.html
    it was a good idea but the app portion was a failboat idea from the start. i'm sure many bailed just because of it or it couldn't be supported, or was a pia to use.

    18 cents..lol
    Quote Originally Posted by bottomset_69 View Post
    Johnny Manziel will be the 1st pick in the draft. I truly believe not only will Johnny Manziel be rookie of the year, quite possibly he will be MVP as his style will shock defensive coordinators. Manziel may only be 6 feet tall, but he has size 15 feet. And he has HUGE hands. I know some NFL scouts so I know what I am talking about.



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    What's the implied valuation for 18 cents?
    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Just non-stop unrelenting LGBT propaganda being shoved down our throats.

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    Platinum mulva's Avatar
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    1st communications class i took in college the prof said concessions is where the money is made
    Quote Originally Posted by bottomset_69 View Post
    Johnny Manziel will be the 1st pick in the draft. I truly believe not only will Johnny Manziel be rookie of the year, quite possibly he will be MVP as his style will shock defensive coordinators. Manziel may only be 6 feet tall, but he has size 15 feet. And he has HUGE hands. I know some NFL scouts so I know what I am talking about.



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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    It's no surprise this is failing. They started with $50/month which is a huge ripoff then dropped to $9.95 where I believe it is now but also ran it for $6.95 for a bit.

    They also have a $7.95 pass for 3 movies a month which has to be more then the average movie enthusiast goes to to the theater.

    Those prices are way too cheap and rely on people to buy over priced snacks each time to survive.

    How many years away do you think we are from every movie being also available on PPV or some expensive streaming service maybe $30/month that has not only all the new released movies thousands of others?

    What if they gave the theaters two weeks with new movies then they put them on these services since most ticket sales are going to happen in the first few weeks anyways?

    We live in an era where a majority of people have big screens and some have a home theater. A lot of people will even watch a cheap ass camera filmed pirated movie over going to the theater so it seems they should be trying to scrape every penny they can out of a movie quickly using multiple platforms.

    Most of these people who watch everything they get pirated aren't going to get that type of service or buy the movie on ppv (obviously) but some people are willing to spend it for convenience because they have a weird schedule,etc...

    The movie industry needs to find a way to embrace the change of times and should have long ago. It's just like the music industry was forced to do so thanks to napster type services leading towards all digital music content practically eliminating CDs from existence.

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    Platinum PLOL's Avatar
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    The movie industry is actually doing fairly well
    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Just non-stop unrelenting LGBT propaganda being shoved down our throats.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker View Post
    It's no surprise this is failing. They started with $50/month which is a huge ripoff then dropped to $9.95 where I believe it is now but also ran it for $6.95 for a bit.

    They also have a $7.95 pass for 3 movies a month which has to be more then the average movie enthusiast goes to to the theater.

    Those prices are way too cheap and rely on people to buy over priced snacks each time to survive.

    How many years away do you think we are from every movie being also available on PPV or some expensive streaming service maybe $30/month that has not only all the new released movies thousands of others?

    What if they gave the theaters two weeks with new movies then they put them on these services since most ticket sales are going to happen in the first few weeks anyways?

    We live in an era where a majority of people have big screens and some have a home theater. A lot of people will even watch a cheap ass camera filmed pirated movie over going to the theater so it seems they should be trying to scrape every penny they can out of a movie quickly using multiple platforms.

    Most of these people who watch everything they get pirated aren't going to get that type of service or buy the movie on ppv (obviously) but some people are willing to spend it for convenience because they have a weird schedule,etc...

    The movie industry needs to find a way to embrace the change of times and should have long ago. It's just like the music industry was forced to do so thanks to napster type services leading towards all digital music content practically eliminating CDs from existence.
    Good post.

    I have a good home theater setup (100 inch projection screen, 7-channel sound), so I figure I'd rather just wait a few months and see the movie at home. I imagine many feel that way, even those with just a standard big screen TV.

    I totally agree that the correct model is just to relegate these passes to movies at least a few weeks old (maybe less than that for lower-profile releases), and then make deals with the movie theater to get a severely cut rate of reimbursement. I'm sure they could come up with a formula to where everyone wins from it.

    I realize that the movie theater industry doesn't want to train people to avoid new releases in order to wait 'til later to get deep discounts, but I think there's still enough demand to see new movies that this still won't matter.

    Maybe MoviePass will at least spur some changes in the movie theater industry to where they get more with the times, and seeing movies becomes more of a tiered pricing experience.

    For me, it's not even the price keeping me away from the theaters. It's just the inconvenience factor, especially with a kid who would need a babysitter (and isn't old enough to see any movie I'd want to see at this point).

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    I've been planning on signing up for movie pass since last summer. Keep putting it off then not going to a movie because I haven't signed up yet.

    Just realized it's pretty likely I never go see a movie in a theater again.

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    This is interesting:
    https://www.sinemia.com/new-plans

    Like movie pass, but with a more sustainable business model and you can see IMAX/premium movies and order tickets in advance. You have to get an annual subscription tho.
    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Just non-stop unrelenting LGBT propaganda being shoved down our throats.

  11. #11
    If todge was a movie for ultra discount website he'd be called JEWVIE PASS IS THIS THING ON

  12. #12
    I also had one for when he tries his hand at becoming an edm guy and its called jewrisdecent lighting just light work yall

  13. #13
    The most jew move of my life:

    I buy a ticket for Regal cinema showings with Moviepass
    on my way home from work 3-4 days per week for the movies I don't watch. You build points with Regal for popcorn, drinks etc. Free tickets as well, as once every now and then you want to see a movie twice, which you can no longer do with Moviepass.

    Enjoying it while it lasts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyde View Post
    I am a nice human being who enjoys being upbeat and affable with others

  14. #14
    They couldn't afford to pay for people's movies on Thursday.

    https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/27/med...age/index.html

    Nice business model.

    Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17626737

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Helios and Matheson, the parent company of the popular movie subscription service, said that it had a service outage on Thursday because it couldn't afford to pay for movie tickets. The company borrowed $5 million in cash Friday to pay its merchant and fulfillment processors, according to a regulatory filing.

    Helios and Matheson missed a payment to one of its fulfillment processors, and that contractor temporarily refused to process payments for MoviePass.

    Some customers complained on social media Thursday that they couldn't use their MoviePass accounts to purchase movie tickets at theaters.

    By Friday afternoon, MoviePass said that its app was "now up-and-running with stability at 100%."

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    I gotta say, I'm really enjoying my Sinemia subscription. $120/yr and you can see 2 movies a month in any format, 3D, IMAX, Dolby whatever, etc. No blackouts on specific movies or days. The key is to combine it with an AMC Stubs Premier account. $15/year and you don't have to pay ticket reservation fees. Otherwise you'll pay the $1.75 convenience fee for buying tix online. When you have a Premier account you'll also get 10% back in points for what you pay for the movie (even though it's not really you paying for the movie). Pretty good since the 3D movies at the downtown AMC dine-in is almost $20. So for $135/yr you can see 24 movies and get ~$45 back in AMC points that you can use for concessions or movie tickets for friends. This is a lot better deal than the AMC A-list program where you see 3 movies/mo for $240/yr and you don't get AMC points on every movie you see.

    They have other plans too, like 1 movie a month (no 3D/IMAX) for $3.99/mo, or 3 movies a month (any format) for $14.99/mo.
    https://www.sinemia.com/R/9JYQMX

    Their business model is also dumb, but it's not insane like Moviepass', so they probably have better long-term viability.

    Edit: I misread the Stubs A-list. It's 3 movies a week, not month. That's a better deal if you see a ton of movies. Though I think it'd be difficult to see more than 3 movies a month anyway
    Last edited by PLOL; 08-01-2018 at 11:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Just non-stop unrelenting LGBT propaganda being shoved down our throats.

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    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLOL View Post
    I gotta say, I'm really enjoying my Sinemia subscription. $120/yr and you can see 2 movies a month in any format, 3D, IMAX, Dolby whatever, etc. No blackouts on specific movies or days. The key is to combine it with an AMC Stubs Premier account. $15/year and you don't have to pay ticket reservation fees. Otherwise you'll pay the $1.75 convenience fee for buying tix online. When you have a Premier account you'll also get 10% back in points for what you pay for the movie (even though it's not really you paying for the movie). Pretty good since the 3D movies at the downtown AMC dine-in is almost $20. So for $135/yr you can see 24 movies and get ~$45 back in AMC points that you can use for concessions or movie tickets for friends. This is a lot better deal than the AMC A-list program where you see 3 movies/mo for $240/yr and you don't get AMC points on every movie you see.

    They have other plans too, like 1 movie a month (no 3D/IMAX) for $3.99/mo, or 3 movies a month (any format) for $14.99/mo.
    https://www.sinemia.com/R/9JYQMX

    Their business model is also dumb, but it's not insane like Moviepass', so they probably have better long-term viability.


    are there really 24 movies a year you would consider sitting through?

    like does this work at art-houses in NYC or something?
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PLOL View Post
    I gotta say, I'm really enjoying my Sinemia subscription. $120/yr and you can see 2 movies a month in any format, 3D, IMAX, Dolby whatever, etc. No blackouts on specific movies or days. The key is to combine it with an AMC Stubs Premier account. $15/year and you don't have to pay ticket reservation fees. Otherwise you'll pay the $1.75 convenience fee for buying tix online. When you have a Premier account you'll also get 10% back in points for what you pay for the movie (even though it's not really you paying for the movie). Pretty good since the 3D movies at the downtown AMC dine-in is almost $20. So for $135/yr you can see 24 movies and get ~$45 back in AMC points that you can use for concessions or movie tickets for friends. This is a lot better deal than the AMC A-list program where you see 3 movies/mo for $240/yr and you don't get AMC points on every movie you see.

    They have other plans too, like 1 movie a month (no 3D/IMAX) for $3.99/mo, or 3 movies a month (any format) for $14.99/mo.
    https://www.sinemia.com/R/9JYQMX

    Their business model is also dumb, but it's not insane like Moviepass', so they probably have better long-term viability.


    are there really 24 movies a year you would consider sitting through?

    like does this work at art-houses in NYC or something?
    It does, actually. You can use them at indie art-house theaters, not just the big chains.
    https://www.sinemia.com/new-plans/us/new-york

     
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      sonatine: ok thats a legit great deal
    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Just non-stop unrelenting LGBT propaganda being shoved down our throats.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PLOL View Post
    I gotta say, I'm really enjoying my Sinemia subscription. $120/yr and you can see 2 movies a month in any format, 3D, IMAX, Dolby whatever, etc. No blackouts on specific movies or days. The key is to combine it with an AMC Stubs Premier account. $15/year and you don't have to pay ticket reservation fees. Otherwise you'll pay the $1.75 convenience fee for buying tix online. When you have a Premier account you'll also get 10% back in points for what you pay for the movie (even though it's not really you paying for the movie). Pretty good since the 3D movies at the downtown AMC dine-in is almost $20. So for $135/yr you can see 24 movies and get ~$45 back in AMC points that you can use for concessions or movie tickets for friends. This is a lot better deal than the AMC A-list program where you see 3 movies/mo for $240/yr and you don't get AMC points on every movie you see.

    They have other plans too, like 1 movie a month (no 3D/IMAX) for $3.99/mo, or 3 movies a month (any format) for $14.99/mo.
    https://www.sinemia.com/R/9JYQMX

    Their business model is also dumb, but it's not insane like Moviepass', so they probably have better long-term viability.


    are there really 24 movies a year you would consider sitting through?

    like does this work at art-houses in NYC or something?
    You could just see Spanish Pantalones and Brock Landers: Angels Live in My Town a dozen times each.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    August 02, 2018 10:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time

    We're Still Standing

    NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--MoviePass™, the nation’s premier movie theater subscription service and a majority-owned subsidiary of Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc. (Nasdaq:HMNY) (“Helios”), today pushed back on comments by some in the theater industry who have predicted, and in some cases declared, its passing.

    Exhibitors know that without MoviePass they will be able to continue to charge exorbitant prices for theater tickets and gouge customers with overpriced concessions. This is exactly the attitude the taxicab industry took when Uber entered their market.

    Furthermore, any crowing about the uptick in box office receipts this summer season should include the fact that a significant percentage of that total is directly attributable to MoviePass subscribers.

    Here’s just a sample:

    • MoviePass contributed nearly one-fourth of the domestic box office receipts for Lionsgate’s “Blindspotting” through the first Tuesday after its release.
    • MoviePass ticket purchases represented nearly 17 percent of Thursday night previews for Paramount’s “Book Club.”
    • For Warner Bros.’ “Tag,” which MoviePass promoted in-app, its purchases represented 13 percent of the film’s opening weekend domestic box office totals
    • MoviePass ticket purchases accounted for about 12 percent of the entire theatrical run for Magnolia Pictures’ runaway documentary hit “RGB.”


    Overall, we believe as much as 6 percent of the industry’s total box office receipts can be traced to our loyal subscribers. It’s clear that because of MoviePass, more people are seeing more movies at fair prices. Instead of wishing us away, the industry, particularly the independent film producers, should be congratulating and supporting us. Absent MoviePass, exhibitors are fighting to preserve profits in a declining box office environment. That’s the doomed strategy.

    Yes, we’re going through a rough patch not unlike what other disruptive enterprises experienced in their early days. Much of our issues can be attributed to the unprecedented growth in a business that just 12 months ago did not exist.



    About Helios and Matheson Analytics

    Helios and Matheson Analytics Inc. (Nasdaq:HMNY) (“Helios”) is a provider of information technology services and solutions, offering a range of technology platforms focusing on big data, artificial intelligence, business intelligence, social listening, and consumer-centric technology. Helios currently owns approximately 92% of the outstanding shares (excluding options and warrants) of MoviePass Inc., the nation's premier movie-theater subscription service. Helios' holdings include RedZone Map™, a safety and navigation app for iOS and Android users, and a community-based ecosystem that features a socially empowered safety map app that enhances mobile GPS navigation using advanced proprietary technology. Helios is headquartered in New York, NY and listed on the Nasdaq Capital Market under the symbol HMNY. For more information, visit us at www.hmny.com.



    About MoviePass Inc.

    MoviePass Inc. (“MoviePass”) is a marketing technology platform enhancing the exploration of film and the moviegoing experience. As the nation's premier movie-theater subscription service, MoviePass provides film enthusiasts the ability to attend select new movies in theaters. The service, now accepted at more than 91% of theaters across the United States, is the nation's largest theater network. Visit us at moviepass.com.




    Cautionary Statement on Forward-looking Information

    Certain statements in this communication contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 or under Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended (collectively, “forward-looking statements”) that may not be based on historical fact, but instead relate to future events, including without limitation statements containing the words “believe”, “may”, “plan”, “will”, “estimate”, “continue”, “anticipate”, “intend”, “expect” and similar expressions. All statements other than statements of historical fact included in this communication are forward-looking statements.

    Such forward-looking statements are based on a number of assumptions. Although Helios’ management believes that the assumptions made and expectations represented by such statements are reasonable, there can be no assurance that a forward-looking statement contained herein will prove to be accurate. Actual results and developments (including, without limitation, the ability of MoviePass to benefit from its acquisition and integration of Moviefone.com, and create immense value with film partners) may differ significantly from those expressed or implied by the forward-looking statements contained herein and even if such actual results and developments are realized or substantially realized, there can be no assurance that they will have the expected consequences or effects. Risk factors and other material information concerning Helios and MoviePass are described in Helios’ Annual Report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2017, its quarterly report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended March 31, 2018 and other filings, including subsequent current and periodic reports, information statements and registration statements filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. You are cautioned to review such reports and other filings at www.sec.gov.

    Given these risks, uncertainties and factors, you are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such forward-looking statements and information, which are qualified in their entirety by this cautionary statement. All forward-looking statements and information made herein are based on Helios’ current expectations and Helios does not undertake an obligation to revise or update such forward-looking statements and information to reflect subsequent events or circumstances, except as required by law.



    Contacts

    HMNY Contact:
    The Pollack PR Marketing Group
    Stephanie Goldman/Mark Havenner, 310-556-4443
    sgoldman@ppmgcorp.com / mhavenner@ppmgcorp.com
    or
    MoviePass Contact:
    LaunchSquad for MoviePass
    Gavin Skillman, 212-564-3665
    moviepass@launchsquad.com

    https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...0802005550/en/


    Cliffs Notes of the above:
     



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