Calling the Clock

[Tenfiftyam]

I am torn between being completely right to varying degrees of being a dick. Here is the story:


So I am playing an evening tournament at a local casino. It is a small place with a $60 buy in 7500 starting stacks and 3 tables. The structure dictates it plays super fast and a lot of the players are regular customers of this and a few other local casinos. With about 15 players left the average stack is 15k and the blinds are 500 1k with no antes. After this level blinds double every 12 mins (1k 2k/ 2k 4k/ 3k 6k) and there is only 225k in play. So a hand begins and player 1 opens to 3500, and player 2 who I don't know by name but definitely know he's a semi reg puts in a call leaving himself 7k behind (lol). The flop comes down 246ccc and player 1 puts player 2 all in. Player 2 goes into the tank (lol he didn't see this coming).

He is only in the tank for about 15 seconds or so but then lifts his hand off the table and exposes it to everyone letting us in on his tough decision. His hand is AcKh. An obvious easy snap call for any poker player (as I said this guy is a regular at this spot). So when I see his hand I get a little annoyed as I may have been having a bad night/life. So I ask the dealer, if I can call a clock in this tourney, the dealer asks if I am serious (as it's only been maybe 20 seconds) and informs me that yes I am allowed to. The floor isn't needed to be called over however as player 2 tells me what a piece of shit I am and makes his call and everyone at the table proceeds to rage at me.

My thoughts were I would normally never call the clock on someone if I'm not involved in the hand. Also if I were in the hand and called the clock I would wait for at least a minute or 2 assuming I don't see his hand and it isn't such a simple decision. This spot caused me to adjust my standards because the tourney itself is very quick moving and the guy was getting 2 to 1 holding a hand that was a favorite vs QQ. On top of that, lifting his hand to expose it to the rest of the table made it seem very hollywoodish to me in the sense that he wanted some extra attention and drama in case this was his last hand of the night.

Basically I just was wondering what people thought. Am I a total asshole? Am I justified? Somewhere in between?

[LLL]

Did he lose the hand? Not that it will help with an answer but it would make me feel good if he did.

[Tenfiftyam]

Did he lose the hand? Not that it will help with an answer but it would make me feel good if he did.

Yeah he called and lost to JJc lol.

[Steve-O]

I would have been very pissed off considering the structure, but with the way he played the hand he has to be a donk, and may have actually thought he had a tough decision. I mean, the guy has AK with about 10 or so Big Blinds and is somehow flat-calling a raise for a third of his stack???? So I probably would have waited before calling the clock because his play was so donkish he may very well not have known that calling here is automatic --maybe give him close to a minute tops

[tommyt]

AK is a favorite vs QQ?

[Steve-O]

AK is a favorite vs QQ?

board had three clubs so he had flush draw and two overs

[Tenfiftyam]

AK is a favorite vs QQ?

Yep.You might be able to put this to use if u didn't know that....http://www.pokerstove.com/blog/downloads/

[tommyt]

AK is a favorite vs QQ?

board had three clubs so he had flush draw and two overs

i thought he meant pre-flop. ill just stfu now

[Tenfiftyam]

board had three clubs so he had flush draw and two overs

i thought he meant pre-flop. ill just stfu now

lol I didn't realize you weren't accounting for the flop haha, yeah on the flop

[tommyt]

AK is a favorite vs QQ?

Yep.You might be able to put this to use if u didn't know that....http://www.pokerstove.com/blog/downloads/

DO NOT WANT. I THOUGHT YOU MEANT PRE-FLOP.

[sonatine]

ahahaha poker

[donkeykilla]

I am torn between being completely right to varying degrees of being a dick. Here is the story:


So I am playing an evening tournament at a local casino. It is a small place with a $60 buy in 7500 starting stacks and 3 tables. The structure dictates it plays super fast and a lot of the players are regular customers of this and a few other local casinos. With about 15 players left the average stack is 15k and the blinds are 500 1k with no antes. After this level blinds double every 12 mins (1k 2k/ 2k 4k/ 3k 6k) and there is only 225k in play. So a hand begins and player 1 opens to 3500, and player 2 who I don't know by name but definitely know he's a semi reg puts in a call leaving himself 7k behind (lol). The flop comes down 246ccc and player 1 puts player 2 all in. Player 2 goes into the tank (lol he didn't see this coming).

He is only in the tank for about 15 seconds or so but then lifts his hand off the table and exposes it to everyone letting us in on his tough decision. His hand is AcKh. An obvious easy snap call for any poker player (as I said this guy is a regular at this spot). So when I see his hand I get a little annoyed as I may have been having a bad night/life. So I ask the dealer, if I can call a clock in this tourney, the dealer asks if I am serious (as it's only been maybe 20 seconds) and informs me that yes I am allowed to. The floor isn't needed to be called over however as player 2 tells me what a piece of shit I am and makes his call and everyone at the table proceeds to rage at me.

My thoughts were I would normally never call the clock on someone if I'm not involved in the hand. Also if I were in the hand and called the clock I would wait for at least a minute or 2 assuming I don't see his hand and it isn't such a simple decision. This spot caused me to adjust my standards because the tourney itself is very quick moving and the guy was getting 2 to 1 holding a hand that was a favorite vs QQ. On top of that, lifting his hand to expose it to the rest of the table made it seem very hollywoodish to me in the sense that he wanted some extra attention and drama in case this was his last hand of the night.

Basically I just was wondering what people thought. Am I a total asshole? Am I justified? Somewhere in between?

I think you got your answer from the rest of the table. I mean C'mon 20 seconds. I can't believe you didn't get followed out to the parking lot for a good ol' ass kicking.

[peter mcneil]

obviously the play is ridiculous but calling the clock after 20 seconds is retarded as well. Give the guy a minute, then call it. You want retards like that enjoying themselves and coming back. After a minute I'd nicely call the clock and apologize to him while blaming the structure for the need to call it.

[Tenfiftyam]

I would have been very pissed off considering the structure, but with the way he played the hand he has to be a donk, and may have actually thought he had a tough decision. I mean, the guy has AK with about 10 or so Big Blinds and is somehow flat-calling a raise for a third of his stack???? So I probably would have waited before calling the clock because his play was so donkish he may very well not have known that calling here is automatic --maybe give him close to a minute tops

I also did assume he was a donk. And to be honest, he obviously is a donk. My excuse (not claiming it to be right or wrong) for being vocal so quickly even though he was a fish was being that he was a regular player I knew this wasn't his one time out for the week or month sort of thing. I thought it was 80 20 weighted towards hollywooding for drama and thinking he had any decision. My assumption could be way off and maybe it should have been a reason to stay quiet though.Thanks for giving an opinion.

[ftpjesus]

I am torn between being completely right to varying degrees of being a dick. Here is the story:


So I am playing an evening tournament at a local casino. It is a small place with a $60 buy in 7500 starting stacks and 3 tables. The structure dictates it plays super fast and a lot of the players are regular customers of this and a few other local casinos. With about 15 players left the average stack is 15k and the blinds are 500 1k with no antes. After this level blinds double every 12 mins (1k 2k/ 2k 4k/ 3k 6k) and there is only 225k in play. So a hand begins and player 1 opens to 3500, and player 2 who I don't know by name but definitely know he's a semi reg puts in a call leaving himself 7k behind (lol). The flop comes down 246ccc and player 1 puts player 2 all in. Player 2 goes into the tank (lol he didn't see this coming).

He is only in the tank for about 15 seconds or so but then lifts his hand off the table and exposes it to everyone letting us in on his tough decision. His hand is AcKh. An obvious easy snap call for any poker player (as I said this guy is a regular at this spot). So when I see his hand I get a little annoyed as I may have been having a bad night/life. So I ask the dealer, if I can call a clock in this tourney, the dealer asks if I am serious (as it's only been maybe 20 seconds) and informs me that yes I am allowed to. The floor isn't needed to be called over however as player 2 tells me what a piece of shit I am and makes his call and everyone at the table proceeds to rage at me.

My thoughts were I would normally never call the clock on someone if I'm not involved in the hand. Also if I were in the hand and called the clock I would wait for at least a minute or 2 assuming I don't see his hand and it isn't such a simple decision. This spot caused me to adjust my standards because the tourney itself is very quick moving and the guy was getting 2 to 1 holding a hand that was a favorite vs QQ. On top of that, lifting his hand to expose it to the rest of the table made it seem very hollywoodish to me in the sense that he wanted some extra attention and drama in case this was his last hand of the night.

Basically I just was wondering what people thought. Am I a total asshole? Am I justified? Somewhere in between?

This is an easy answer sorry to say but 20seconds in and your calling the clock on a dude who isnt sure he wants to call off his last 7k sure he has an nut flush draw but its not made. The other guy could have a monster PP of Ks or As so yes your a grade A ASSHOLE for clocking somebody less then 20seconds in. It sounds more like to me your implying this guy was trying to slow roll and you cant call it that without a made hand that is the nuts or 2nd nuts. If he had tanked for awhile which with rapid blinds would be a different story but for fucks sake it was 20secs. You sir are a DICK and I guarantee if you'd pulled this at a Vegas Casino somebody likely would have met you inthe parkinglot and you might have met Mr Louisville Slugger or something to teach you some fucking manners.. 20 SECS??? Really??? No excuse you win the Dipshit at the table of the night award hands down on this one

[JUSTIFIEDhomicide]

I love how people say "if this were in my town you'd get your ass beat in the parking lot"

It's 2012 you idiots. Every person and their mother has a walking video camera waiting for an idiot like you to beat someone up in a parking lot.

It's not 1989 anymore...


That being said, you're a giant douche for calling the clock so quickly.

It's obvious you were having a shitty day and needed to take it out on someone, somehow.

[ftpjesus]

AK is a favorite vs QQ?

Yep.You might be able to put this to use if u didn't know that....http://www.pokerstove.com/blog/downloads/

Actually your wrong Qs are a 56 to 43% favorite to AK preflop. Any questions try this little calculator. Pocket pairs are always favs on overcards preflop the odds obvious change once the flop comes immensely usually but they consider them a coinflip because of the near break even but Pocket pairs are ALWAYS a slight fav immediately if you think otherwise you need to go back to poker 101 my friend.

http://holdemtight.com/cgi-bin/poker-eval.cgi#bottom

Ok if he was talking post flop I just checked.. Despite what you thought the guy with the over cards was STILL a marginal dog at 48.72% vs 50.29% so actually the coin flip situation didnt improve nearly as much as you thought based on the flop dont believe me put in the whole cards and the flop and see if you get a different answer.

[ftpjesus]

I love how people say "if this were in my town you'd get your ass beat in the parking lot"

It's 2012 you idiots. Every person and their mother has a walking video camera waiting for an idiot like you to beat someone up in a parking lot.

It's not 1989 anymore...


That being said, you're a giant douche for calling the clock so quickly.

It's obvious you were having a shitty day and needed to take it out on someone, somehow.

For the record I dont live in Vegas I just know that in certain places people get their asses beat in dark spots out of camera range especially if enough people are around to met out justice. I mean did ya'll forget about Sam Trickett's ass kicking that happened right after the one drop?? I dont recall any video of that nor any arrests by Metro so if you think it cant or doesnt happen in Vegas your nuts. Vegas can be a cool city but it also has its rough side too and if you cross over and piss off the wrong person or people you better be able to defend yourself or have somebody who can.

[Tenfiftyam]

This is an easy answer sorry to say but 20seconds in and your calling the clock on a dude who isnt sure he wants to call off his last 7k sure he has an nut flush draw but its not made. The other guy could have a monster PP of Ks or As so yes your a grade A ASSHOLE for clocking somebody less then 20seconds in. It sounds more like to me your implying this guy was trying to slow roll and you cant call it that without a made hand that is the nuts or 2nd nuts. If he had tanked for awhile which with rapid blinds would be a different story but for fucks sake it was 20secs. You sir are a DICK and I guarantee if you'd pulled this at a Vegas Casino somebody likely would have met you inthe parkinglot and you might have met Mr Louisville Slugger or something to teach you some fucking manners.. 20 SECS??? Really??? No excuse you win the Dipshit at the table of the night award hands down on this one

Fair enough. I wouldn't have called the clock on him if he didn't pick his hand up. Maybe that is still no excuse, but that is what tilted me. It doesn't seem I was clear enough when I said the first time, that under normal circumstances I wouldn't ever call the clock on anyone if I wasn't in the hand and this isn't something that has happened before or will probably ever happen again. This won't be happening in a Vegas casino. It was very circumstantial. Those circumstances right or wrong being: I know the player (by face tho not personally), the buy in was about as small as you can get for live nightly poker tourneys around my area and the structure moves super quick (10 handed FTs play shallower then super turbo SNGs online normally no joke), and IMO he was just trying to milk drama turning his hand over.

Also to be clear, as said in op, I never actually called the clock. I asked the dealer if I could do so as an actual question, not a request. I was more so vocalizing my intention to do so because. "Am I allowed to call the clock in this tournament?" Not trying to say I'm 100% right here (or even 50%) it just didn't seem all the info was fully absorbed. I think that my exact reasons for thinking it was a reasonable thing to do may be the same reasons others find it offensive. I see both sides.

[Tenfiftyam]

Yep.You might be able to put this to use if u didn't know that....http://www.pokerstove.com/blog/downloads/

Actually your wrong Qs are a 56 to 43% favorite to AK preflop. Any questions try this little calculator. Pocket pairs are always favs on overcards preflop the odds obvious change once the flop comes immensely usually but they consider them a coinflip because of the near break even but Pocket pairs are ALWAYS a slight fav immediately if you think otherwise you need to go back to poker 101 my friend.

http://holdemtight.com/cgi-bin/poker-eval.cgi#bottom

Ok if he was talking post flop I just checked.. Despite what you thought the guy with the over cards was STILL a marginal dog at 48.72% vs 50.29% so actually the coin flip situation didnt improve nearly as much as you thought based on the flop dont believe me put in the whole cards and the flop and see if you get a different answer.

Don't know what to say about this one. I have run these numbers before and AK with a club is ahead of QQ without a club on that flop. Even so, I think this is less of a point because it was just an example of a strong part of someones opening range here. And because I'm anal I just pulled up pokerstove to re run the numbers again and AcKd has 51.9% equity on 256ccc vs QdQh (Q with a club gives QQ the slight edge) according to poker stove and getting 2 to 1 even if it didn't have this edge it is a call.