I thought about spending a few minutes to create a pithy reply, but instead will wish you good luck and monitor the thread for anything real. People are smart, they can view all of the various investigative projects and determine what makes sense and what does not.
As if a pithy reply would answer the question. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!Originally Posted by elevengrover
You know, as scummy as Travis Makar was, at least he had the guts to do the dumping of the documents publicly, understanding full well that the stuff inside left no doubt as to his complicity. Your source, on the other hand, continues to hide. Was that part of the deal?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!
Since the thread has shifted back to Heick and documents Travis Makar released, my question still stands. How did Travis Makar get Carolyn Heick's emails with Excapsa officers?
Well, since Russ was one of those officers and most of Travis's dump came off of Russ's laptop, that seems like a logical way right there. Copy-and-paste of a forwarded note without including the headers? It happens all the time. This may or not be what happened, but it's sure as hell not impossible.
Now let's stop with the lame derail attempt and return to this latest development of ElevenGrover willingly shielding somebody who hid documents until after the statutes of limitations had expired. This is, after all, a thread about this documentary. :-)
The records we have are the proprietary work product of a long, hard investigation though I would expect most any professional journalist could have gained them. The specifically referred documents appear to come from the internal site investigation and as such are not "shielding" anybody from anything. I doubt the readers are as stupid as you often believe.
That said, I make the formal offer to provide Carolyn Heick copies of all our related documentation in exchange for an interview (on or off the record). I make this directly to Heick, who is free to do whatever she wants with the information. If she has a list of involved individuals and would like information concerning their refunds, she can ask and we will consider the request.
When our film project is completed, all of this work product will be made available on a corollary website. In discussions with our attorney, none of the information would be dispositive in assisting players this year with a legal action against anyone involved with the site, thus the allegation of hurting players does not apply. In contrast, the documents taken by Ms. Heick in 2008 and subsequently leaked into the public domain clearly prevented players from legal redress and as such, Heick and her compatriots probably still have legal liability if players wanted to pursue an action.
As usual, that's ridiculous. As one example, the evidence that absolutely proves that the AP cheating was orchestrated by Scott Tom probably doesn't come out unless Heick releases it. I'm talking about those ieSnare images which I think we all agree originated with Heick, and show money moving into Tom's ePassporte account.
Please proffer even a single hard example of what you claim here, that Heick took documents and leaked them in a way as to damage players' chances to seek redress. Only someone who's adamantly trying to prove a blackmail conspiracy where none existed could continue to ignore such obvious facts in the way you do, and make such an unsubstantiated assertion.
I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for you to provide such any sort of documentation to substantiate your claims, but I will note in advance why you can't:
You're making shit up.
You go ahead and take another day to craft an answer that doesn't come anywhere close to addressing why you're shielding someone -- or by extension, iovation as a whole -- who by your own words waited until after the statutes of limitation expired. I'm asking for the second time. Tomorrow, I'll ask for the third, because you haven't answered.
Thanks for admitting she sent those. Perhaps you can go back through all your blogs and highlight each piece that originated with Heick. If not, I can. And to once again correct your misunderstanding, it isn't that she leaked docs that hurt players, it is that she didn't leak all the docs she took to clear her name and to force higher remunerations. Arguing with you is often difficult because you cannot remain focused on the topic.
Finally we get a tiny germ of truth out of your posting. You have some wild notion that iovation is supporting our work. Aside from the hilarity since it was our recent efforts that drove the Ultimate Poker issues against iovation, it also shows clearly there is an opposing side (Heick/Hamilton/Makar/whomever else). Most observers will correctly get that our project is much like the referee seeking to understand levels of culpability and motivations on both sides. You have become deeply enmeshed with one side and thus your story is always going to be slanted.
I accept your criteria for judging the independence of our project; see who we leave out. If there is anyone deserving of blame that does not get it in our project, that is totally on me. Obviously, we hold all other projects to the same standard.
Lets get back to lawsuits though. So far, I have been contacted by three different firms and we contacted two others directly. In every case, I offered myself and our entire cache of evidence to support a player initiative. In two cases, we charged a nominal sum (less than $100) so as not to make an untoward appearance.
And on your side? In the first case, you couldn't even figure out who the attorney was, confusing him with a high stakes MTT legend. Worse, without doing any research you started screeching about defamation and wrote a post describing our "persecution" of Jack Bates when in fact we attempted to clear him from the brief. The second is even funnier. A young lawyer was tasked to look into the case and started contacting folks. I took a lot of time to help educate the guy and he seemed like an honest broker that could help players. You on the other hand slapped him down and then wrote a blog about it:
"He basically wanted me to bring me up to speed on the entirety of the UB scandal, which of course had me rolling my eyes on my side of the phone connection; I certainly don’t have problems with anyone offering legal challenges against UB, AP, or modern-day parent Cereus, but I’m also not a day-care center, potty-training everyone who comes along."
So when you make accusations about us withholding evidence, you really mean you want us to do your work for you and you have never given much thought to players in the case at all. The current initiatives rest on the fact that in addition to players, there are two aggrieved shareholder camps, both of who believe they slot in BEFORE players in any monies due. You carry water for the anti-AP shareholders and Heick is smack in the middle of what could develop into a significant legal action against her, Hamilton, iovation, Pierson, etc. I'm down with all that, a legal action could definitely produce Discovery useful to understanding the case. I just feel it is important for everyone's motives to be totally transparent.
Again, no one's ever paid me to look into this stuff. Your discussion re: the Canadian lawyer epitomizes the belief that I should be your (or his) unpaid employee, when in fact I did try to give him some help.
For those who want a prime example of how Kenneth Scott Bell takes things out of context when he's not doing his slander / libel / defamation stuff -- and I write it out specifically to make sure it gets into Google that way -- you should go back and read the complete post he's referring to.
What Bell isn't telling y'all is this. I called the lawyer (Serge Kalloghlian) on my own dime after he e-mailed me, and found out that he hadn't even read the important legal documents related to the Excapsa liquidation, which were absolutely a prerequisite for any sort of Canadian action, as this was. Instead, he wanted to schedule a lengthy phone meeting for me to sit down and go through the entire history of the UB scandal with him.
Fuck that; he can get himself up to speed a bit first and at least show me he's serious about this if he wants my time. Instead, this Serge guy was being lazy and wanted me to do his work for him, when he was going to have to go look through those legal documents no matter what, since they were very germane to his and JD Moussa's possible case. As relayed in that post, I tried four different times in asking him to take a piece of paper and a pen and write down the URL I wanted to give him (a short URL at that), so he could go to that site and start downloading stuff. I did it; he needed to do it too. He finally wrote down the URL, after much arguing. I even told him I'd point out which were the good documents, but I was not interested in serving as his unpaid legal aide and walking him through what became thousands of pages of legalese in addition to being his tour guide through all of the Internet for UB scandal stuff.
This Serge guy wanted none of it; he just wanted to be potty-trained using my time. Even at that, I wished him well, and another quote from that same post Bell is now using to try to trash me reads as follows:
So while I was unwilling to serve as Kalloghlian’s personal tutor, I did wish him well in his endeavor, and I can confirm for the world that he and his law firm and his looking into the matter all seem to be legit. What I did for him was point him — after about four attempts to get him to grab a pen and paper and write down a brief URL — toward the Canadian liquidator’s website where all sorts of business documents relating to Excapsa’s declared bankruptcy and subsequent sale to AP/Blast-Off can be found. That’s sort of a litmus test when lawyers come a-calling. They can go read the several hundred pages of documents found here, and if they make it through that, then I’ll start to take them seriously.
So will there be a class-action case brought against UB, AP, Cereus, or any of several other possible parties? Too soon to tell, and in response to Kalloghlian’s final question, I believe that the jurisdictional issues are far more of a hindrance to successful civil litigation then they would be in comparable criminal matters. But Moussa and Kalloghlian deserve a little bit of credit for at least looking into a new way to right some wrongs. Their way may not be great for everyone, but at least it’s something.
It is disgusting for Kenneth Scott Bell to state that I did something wrong there, but that's how the guy rolls -- he's an evil, despicable man. He's trying very, very hard right now to fling whatever dirt he can my way, because he knows his silly conspiracy-theory story is teetering. As long as he keeps showing up, I plan to keep pwning him in this thread.
Also, those AP shareholders. I don't think I've heard from any of them in two years. They gave up after Black Friday, when it was clear there was no money and no assets left, but it was their intent to oust the frat boys and reimburse the players and try to get the site back on the road to health and respectability. I supported them in their endeavor, but they obviously never got the chance to put their plans into action. It is again despicable of you to miscast that the way you did, when they were really the first concerted effort to get AP out of the hands of the thieves. But I also don't expect anything else from you.
I also never said Heick sent those ieSnare scans to me. I said it was obvious that they originated with her. I'm also not the first person outside of UB who had them. D'oh.
Anyone else see this video? Does anyone else recognize this asshole? I got a feeling it's really him
It is him. His mom shot the video.
Bump for Movie release.
I purchased the downloadable copy on Vimeo which is $5.99 but the stream is $2.99 which is good for 24 hours and just started watching it. When it's over I will give my opinion on the film but I see Druff already a few minutes into the film.
LOL does Vimeo show me watching?
I actually didn't watch it on there. I downloaded it, and just finished watching it on my computer.
VERY interesting stuff, and I learned some things I didn't already know.
I appeared several times, and excerpts from DD Radio and PokerFraudAlert Radio also made various appearances.
Really enjoyed it, and I recommend people get it: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/ultimatebeat
Given that the author's MO is to accuse key personnel of wrongdoings in order to motivate them to explain what they know I would not recommend purchasing it. Find it on a torrent if you are really interested in his hypothesis.
It don't show whose viewing it on Vimeo ever as far as I know and I also downloaded it then streamed the film to my hdtv.
The documentary is well presented and I learned some stuff as well. The biggest negative critique I have which isn't a problem for me but could be for some users is that the film will be tough for someone who don't already know some in depth details of UB's issues to understand it. I'm sure EG already knows it's not geared towards someone who don't know anything about the history of UB but maybe a 5 to 10 minute synopsis in the beginning of what happened could help some understand whose not up on the history of UB at all understand it a little better.
Overall, I enjoyed this and a few parts I know I will be re-watching over the next week or two because they were very detailed where I want to see them again.
I'm gonna wait until Haley publishes her 30 part review where she picks it apart, calls it all wrong, and corrects the story, in her view. I'd like to watch it and have her version on hand at the same time, see how much they differ on everything.
A couple more things:
I don't think Jonathan Little is someone you want commenting in a film about cheating when it's widely known how he was an FTP Pro and got banned because he let others play on his account to collect the hourly rate + RB. While the UB/AP scandal is a whole other animal I still wouldn't have picked him to be in this film because of his past even if I think he's overall a decent guy who made a mistake.
The refunds in the limit games were terrible but also for MTTs when all you do is disqualify and/or bump up the people who placed below is that proper compensation in a situation like this? The answer is NO! When a cheater can see all the hole cards what about all the people they busted along the way who lost their opportunity because of these GOD mode accounts? The point I'm making is that everyone that busted out or lost significant amounts of chips to a cheater account in an MTT is a victim who was robbed out of a potential opportunity to win either money or a big MTT seat and they weren't compensated back for it.
Their is a spot in the film where it appears NoahSD is talking yet you can't hear him. I backed the clip up a few times and same thing no audio in this part? Perhaps it was nothing important but it seemed weird.
Lol, CD, that would require me sending $2.99 or whatever to Bell. He ain't worth that much. I'm sure I'll hear the highlights from others soon enough.
I have bought and downloaded it but not watched it yet. I think the price is a small amount to pay given this is a small target audience.
I will also buy Haley's book when it comes out (hint!).
#FREEJACK #NEVERFORGET
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I think the above is a good and fair review.It don't show whose viewing it on Vimeo ever as far as I know and I also downloaded it then streamed the film to my hdtv.
The documentary is well presented and I learned some stuff as well. The biggest negative critique I have which isn't a problem for me but could be for some users is that the film will be tough for someone who don't already know some in depth details of UB's issues to understand it. I'm sure EG already knows it's not geared towards someone who don't know anything about the history of UB but maybe a 5 to 10 minute synopsis in the beginning of what happened could help some understand whose not up on the history of UB at all understand it a little better.
Overall, I enjoyed this and a few parts I know I will be re-watching over the next week or two because they were very detailed where I want to see them again.
You are also right that NoahSD's part near the end had no audio. Weird. Made me try to adjust something, as well.
My only criticisms:
- I wish there was more stuff on AP. I know Haley has written volumes on that, so I am really looking forward to her book coming out, so I can read all about that side of it.
- They probably should have slowed down a bit when explaining ieLogic, Excapsa, Blast Off, eWorld Holdings, etc. Those parts will probably be very difficult to follow for the average viewer. A graph showing the structure of all of these companies would have been very helpful.
- For the most part, everything between 2009 and early 2011 was omitted, aside from the mention of the "10% lost" hand histories. I thought there should have been some airtime given to the Cereus rebranding and the attempt by Leggett (and Sebok) to portray UB as a new company that was sold to people unrelated to the cheating.
I don't mind them using Jonathan Little. Brad Booth's actions have been a lot more scandalous than Little's, and he was featured a ton (as well as had some production credits). I don't really care that much about the personal failings of the people involved with the film. I just care about it being accurate and the story getting out -- especially when it comes to guys like Pierson who skated away mostly unscathed.
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