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Thread: ElevenGrover announces UB documentary, Ultimate Beat

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post
    But I'll also tell you GUYS something; sometimes women marry a certain guy for reasons men can't fathom. I wouldn't even pretend to know all the answers to this, but I bet it's more complex than any of you (or me) know.
    I imagine she thought she was getting Midge Ure or Billy Currie as much as Tom Metzger. That said, she left little doubt in the naming of their kids (its fair game though I won't name them here).

    At the end of the day, I look forward to your work. I believe you have become far too close to your source and believe what they have told you even though some of it clearly cannot be correct. It's fine, let there be several lines of inquiry and the public can decide how to apportion blame or believability. Is there a Zoltan? Seems true enough. Do we think this rando call center dude conned the master hustler with an extortion scheme in a country where $100 can buy a lot of mayhem? Or more importantly, that the same dude would know exactly all the pressure points that dodo hit on? Recall that dodo was the first to bring iesnare into the light of day.

    Some can look at the case and point upwards, that Greg Pierson is the be-all, end-all holy chalice. Everyone else is subordinate to his peculiar brand of angle-shooting and should not share culpability for carrying off this long old school mafia-type skim operation. I'm not in that business. To me, its more interesting to see how groups of individuals and group dynamics allow this kind of behavior. The plausible deniability, the half-hearted mea culpas and the hiding out for years instead of coming clean.

    To give Heick, Makar, David, Moore, Leinhos and the others a pass because craig is a master puppeteer is naïve, yes but more importantly it doesn't illuminate how some very good ideas were turned into very bad ones. Bates, for all his flaws at least had the stones to quit when he realized there was no standing up to Pierson/Dehaan. To look back now and have all of the compatriots say they just collected checks and did what they were told is going to be a heavy lift and require a lot of cross-wiring that won't easily bear scrutiny. Bates attempted to suggest Heick's role was minor, administrative and not of major significance. Friedberg seems to suggest Heick was a very important component who interacted daily with all levels of senior management and likely carries at least some grudge for not being elevated into the management suite after an enormous contribution to the success of the site.

    We get it. Still doesn't excuse her approving 100k transfers from fake accounts to RussHamilton. As a credit card fraud specialist, those accounts should have screamed out to her. Actually its worse because she created some of the accounts. It's actually pretty noble that Russ wants to take care of his team though I think there is still a desire to offload some of the culpability onto Travis' shoulders like they wanted in early 2008.

    Make your case, we'll make ours. People will figure out what happened.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevengrover View Post
    Recall that dodo was the first to bring iesnare into the light of day.
    Hilarious. Dodo's data dumps didn't even come from the ieSnare system. They were CS-level account inquiries. Those workers didn't need ieSnare to see what other accounts someone was sending money to.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elevengrover View Post
    Recall that dodo was the first to bring iesnare into the light of day.
    Hilarious. Dodo's data dumps didn't even come from the ieSnare system. They were CS-level account inquiries. Those workers didn't need ieSnare to see what other accounts someone was sending money to.
    http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...40&postcount=1

    The suite was in use much earlier and even listed on the early ieLogic website but nobody in the poker world had any clue about iovation, iesnare or what it did until dodo linked it here. And of course, Heick leaking the AP snares of Scott Tom later on. (also note she doubled down on Bate's resume in that post, a disgruntled former employee makes far more sense than an ancient tourney director)
    Last edited by elevengrover; 06-26-2013 at 07:48 AM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevengrover View Post
    The suite was in use much earlier and even listed on the early ieLogic website but nobody in the poker world had any clue about iovation, iesnare or what it did until dodo linked it here. And of course, Heick leaking the AP snares of Scott Tom later on.
    Absolute, unmitigated bizarro looniness. Just because players didn't know about ieSnare doesn't mean the site workers didn't know about it, and it wouldn't be talked about on player forums, as it was a tool the sites used against fraudulent players. You yourself know how many companies bought usage rights to ieSnare, and that goes back years before the dodo posts.

    That post you linked is a gem; it disproves more than it proves. What exactly are those links supposed to be proving? That's a random collection of links to sites that dodo was fishing on and thought had some connection to what he was digging at. Do you not recognize a fishing expedition?

    But THIS, THIS, is the clincher: Why would brainwashdodo (who you think is Carolyn Heick) link to Jack Bates' resume, when you claim at one point that Bates and Heick and Makar were all working together as part of this extortion scheme? Exactly what would a supposed extortionist have to gain by outing one of her supposed co-extortionists?

    Do you even think about the logic of these scenarios that you construct??

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post

    Absolute, unmitigated bizarro looniness.
    I will engage as long as it remains civil. You are on the path to ad hominem attack again and homeslice isn't going to participate. My full name is Kenneth Scott Bell, I use Scott for publishing purposes. I might have chosen something like R2XP, but my middle name is fine.

    The post I linked proves little in isolation but it shows dodo understood that iovation/iesnare would become a critical lynchpin in the entire case both from a technical standpoint and from financial/business standpoint. Those links are not scattershot btw, they are laser focused. As for Bates and the theory that dodo was involved in extortion, it's pretty simple though I have said on multiple occasions that Bates was likely not a knowing participant (that bad cop routine thing again). Personally, I think exposing his resume was an internal mistake and one they were forced to rectify. Everyone involved now admits dodo was some form of extortion. The question is who drove the conspiracy and what were the goals. Toblerone factories in Costa Rica for a brazen Hungarian is one explanation. Another is protection against the big seam that was closing down on the Las Vegas arm of CRME, Inc. I imagine these folks believe Chintimini Farm belongs as much to them as it does to DC. I mean, Zillow has an amazing chart showing 1725 Glenview was worth nearly $800k the day Fosco drew the curtain on Russ. From there it was all literally and figuratively downhill.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevengrover View Post
    Personally, I think exposing his resume was an internal mistake and one they were forced to rectify. Everyone involved now admits dodo was some form of extortion. The question is who drove the conspiracy and what were the goals.
    No, this is a prime example of dismissing any evidence that doesn't fit the theory. Bear in mind that you can only dismiss facts or construct extreme rationales for so long, until the theory itself comes crashing down. This one just does not fit the facts, no matter how they're distorted.

    It was obvious to me on first read that dodo was likely involved in some form of extortion; when he disappeared so fast there was no other explanation. If you read that thread a lot of other watchers felt the same way.

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    Just want to say that I find it amazing that Bowie was mentioned in not just one but TWO poker-related threads yesterday, both here (this thread) and on 2+2 when Jesse "MazeOrBowie" Martin won a bracelet.

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    DELETED FROM NET, YALL

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Just want to say that I find it amazing that Bowie was mentioned in not just one but TWO poker-related threads yesterday, both here (this thread) and on 2+2 when Jesse "MazeOrBowie" Martin won a bracelet.

    IMO, Jesse is a fan of the band PHISH, because "MAZE" and "DAVID BOWIE" are two songs of theirs, and fans would just call the latter, "BOWIE"







    continue...

  10. #50
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    Kind of surprised nobody has mentioned Queen Bitch or Man Who Sold the World as all-time Bowie songs
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

  11. #51
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    I think everybody knows who the people most responsible are.

    That being said...

    I'll be charitable for a minute. I don't think someone just doing what their bosses told them would be a valid defense against wrongdoing. Especially if there was ample reason why the person should have known something terrible was happening. Especially if the person held a position to observe the wrongdoing. Especially if the person's account received stolen money, directly from a cheating account, or possibly even personally moved the money from the account into their own.

    The transfer below came from a superuser account.

    488360308 -5000.00 Transfer To Spent Hen 2006-NOV-22 12:25:51 PM administrati
    Last edited by thiefcatcher; 06-27-2013 at 12:27 PM.

  12. #52
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    though I can go old school Bowie, Tarantino saw the light.



    Just saw the post above. Spent Hen is Carolyn Heick, right?

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post

    No, this is a prime example of dismissing any evidence that doesn't fit the theory. Bear in mind that you can only dismiss facts or construct extreme rationales for so long, until the theory itself comes crashing down. This one just does not fit the facts, no matter how they're distorted.
    Actually the facts fit the theory exceedingly well. Lets suppose I was someone with the highest levels of administrative access and a long history of using admin tools in the company. I know full well that pre-2005, the data was a mess that required copious amounts of spit/glue/dehaan to actually work with. You will note that all of the data leaks, both from Heick and from within the company provide detail mostly post-2005 and the Oracle changeover.

    Now, if I were trying to protect myself and my team when the cheating is being exposed, I would recognize that just pulling data post-2005 is probably not enough and if I'm Carolyn Heick, I don't have the dba experience to start generating SQL queries to an old data pile. In that world, I might pick up the phone and call an old friend. One who worked on and developed the early stuff. One who clearly has no problem in assisting in efforts against the evil Arthur Andersen jerks. In that light, linking to Bates could have been quite effective, though I'm sure Bates did not realize his assistance would be made public and I doubt he considered the effort was in aid of criminal activity, hence the quick change to Jack McClelland who also probably has a ton of experience with SQL queries and the UB administrative toolsets....

    Also plz address thiefcatcher's find of Missy receiving money from superusers.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevengrover View Post

    Also plz address thiefcatcher's find of Missy receiving money from superusers.
    Send me the file it came from. That entry doesn't even show the sending account.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by thiefcatcher View Post
    I think everybody knows who the people most responsible are.

    That being said...

    I'll be charitable for a minute. I don't think someone just doing what their bosses told them would be a valid defense against wrongdoing. Especially if there was ample reason why the person should have known something terrible was happening. Especially if the person held a position to observe the wrongdoing. Especially if the person's account received stolen money, directly from a cheating account, or possibly even personally moved the money from the account into their own.

    The transfer below came from a superuser account.

    488360308 -5000.00 Transfer To Spent Hen 2006-NOV-22 12:25:51 PM administrati
    I agree with you, re valid defense, as long as the people involved knew that what they were doing was assisting wrongdoing when they did it. (Which reminds me of a brief tale of how I ended up on an FBI surveillance tape once, about 25 years ago, helping a man with no hands move some boxes. Little did I know what those boxes contained.)

    That said, those cheating accounts sent money to all kinds of people for all kinds of reasons, cheaters and innocent players alike. I need context to evaluate.

    The stuff that Bell runs with about blackmail plots is just plain wrong, but I'm not going to go into specifics and assist him in correcting it, since he's already done a really good job of hanging himself with it. I'm quite aware of who the guilty players are here, and I also remain open to receiving new information and reevaluating things. Please send me this file. Several of my e-mail addresses are readily available, and it shouldn't be at all hard to set up a dummy account somewhere to shield your identity, if you're worried.

  16. #56
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    I think it is a fair line of inquiry to try and understand why Jack Bates would say that Carolyn was just some middling level employee that Greg would not give the "keys" to while Daniel Friedberg on the tapes and Travis Makar in the leaked emails portray a picture of someone who directly interfaced with senior management and had access to nearly all levels of administrative software.

    She is one of the first 10 employees at the company, uproots her family to move to Costa Rica where she hires/trains and configures the company's support division and then moves on to become the "Fraud Manager" when existential credit card fraud was going to kill the site. She was on the front line in preventing everyone from losing everything. She relocated to Toronto (she has two small children at the time) and works for Ryan. According to several well-known players, Carolyn was the go-to person when you actually had to get something done at the site (or receive a check). After UIGEA, she doesn't move back to Portland. Instead, she moves to Vegas and goes to work directly for Russ. Reviewing, she has worked directly for Greg, Jim and Russ. In the Vegas offices (that include an IP address used by superuser and auditmonster accounts), she is making gigantic changes to superuser accounts. One account she transfers almost 400k over a short period of time.

    This is an individual who knows the entire history of the company and led the brigade against outside fraud. If anyone would be hyper-sensitive to a massive fraud at UB, its Carolyn. And yet, she is setting up cheating accounts, changing their credit limits and VIP status, doing large money transfers from them to RussHamilton and ultimately getting paid by them herself.

    When 2008 rolls around, she directly told Nolan Bolusan that she had a large trove of internal administrative documents and that she would release them if her name ever became associated with the case. When I read all the above, there are few legitimate theories that fit the pattern. The project I am working on will simply present the evidence and allow the viewer to decide. Apparently you feel the need to make sure these people are cleared of wrongdoing. That's not my job, that belongs to them.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elevengrover View Post

    Also plz address thiefcatcher's find of Missy receiving money from superusers.
    Send me the file it came from. That entry doesn't even show the sending account.
    The transfer was from the superuser account "squezzzed". The transfer history for that account is out in the public for the world to see. It was part of the latest records dump. The context is that "squeezzzed" stole the money from players, and then some of that was shipped to "Spent Hen".

    The file is available to everyone on Pokerxanadu's site, www.pokerxanadu.com.

    Or, you could just ask Carolyn to show you the admin screen for that account.

    BTW, does Carolyn Heick have evidence of Greg Pierson cheating, or people other than Russ Hamilton and his foot soldiers, other higher ups, etc, any of the tech guys, whoever?

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    Good teamwork haleylh and elevengrover

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    Quote Originally Posted by thiefcatcher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post

    Send me the file it came from. That entry doesn't even show the sending account.
    The transfer was from the superuser account "squezzzed". The transfer history for that account is out in the public for the world to see. It was part of the latest records dump. The context is that "squeezzzed" stole the money from players, and then some of that was shipped to "Spent Hen".

    The file is available to everyone on Pokerxanadu's site, www.pokerxanadu.com.

    Or, you could just ask Carolyn to show you the admin screen for that account.

    BTW, does Carolyn Heick have evidence of Greg Pierson cheating, or people other than Russ Hamilton and his foot soldiers, other higher ups, etc, any of the tech guys, whoever?
    I checked PokerXanadu's site, and don't see it anywhere. Link?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thiefcatcher View Post
    The transfer was from the superuser account "squezzzed". The transfer history for that account is out in the public for the world to see. It was part of the latest records dump. The context is that "squeezzzed" stole the money from players, and then some of that was shipped to "Spent Hen".

    The file is available to everyone on Pokerxanadu's site, www.pokerxanadu.com.

    Or, you could just ask Carolyn to show you the admin screen for that account.

    BTW, does Carolyn Heick have evidence of Greg Pierson cheating, or people other than Russ Hamilton and his foot soldiers, other higher ups, etc, any of the tech guys, whoever?
    I checked PokerXanadu's site, and don't see it anywhere. Link?
    I got the link from PX. No need to post it.

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