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Thread: ElevenGrover announces UB documentary, Ultimate Beat

  1. #21
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    The quoted line concerns me and me only. I'm defending my own honor and reputation. So why is it that you won't provide any evidence or specifics?

  2. #22
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    Here's a little bonus for victims of Bell's ongoing and repeated libels. The documentary teaser linked above isn't Bell's debut UB effort. Instead, that honor goes to a 2:17 trailer which Bell distributed and/or showed to friends and possible film investors. Again, that constitutes "publication" in the legal sense.

    That trailer's contents include the same UB/Excapsa montage as shown above but without the text shown at lower left, a snippet from a Scott Fischman interview (in addition to others found in the trailer above), and this gem, which deserves wider exposure:

    Name:  bell-doc-trailer-1c.jpg
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    I might know a thing or two about UB, and in my opinion it is very likely that at least three of the seven people pictured are going to have issues with Bell labeling them as "Accessories," as in "accessories to a crime."

    There are plenty of guilty people who worked at UB or its parent companies. By the same measure, there are plenty of innocent ones. If any of those innocent ones want to get in touch me with and send me a cheap flash drive and a padded envelope with return postage, I will provide them a copy of this alternate trailer in support of their own future legal efforts. I'm not too hard to locate.

  3. #23
    PFA Emeritus Crowe Diddly's Avatar
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    Haley is Goddess.

  4. #24
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    Thank you for the kind words, CD. The exact audio accompanying that screengrab details "ownership, management and a large group of accessories supporting the fraud." So the accusation has been made by Bell.

    I suppose it's a good time to share another Grover Special. Mr. Bell always has that special touch of the wise confidante when approaching people to serve as possible sources. While I do not know the person to whom this was sent, this Facebook message nonetheless made its way to me:

    ...

    Scott Bell March 4, 2011 at 1:25pm

    Subject: Will it matter if somebody died

    A college kid, maybe a little degenerate, a little too cocky. Builds a roll in the boom and runs headfirst into all those screennames. A process so jaded, the user would log out after winning a few buyins and come back twenty minutes later as a different cheating name and continue to rape the victim. So maybe he loses his roll, then his tuition, then his will to continue. And why? For some money? You can carry that?

    And the justification "We are going to get that money in the long run anyway". Really?

    ...

    Then Bell goes and accuses people that won't talk to him of being part of the conspiracy. I mean, really. Who in their right mind would talk to this guy?

  5. #25
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    I give my full permission for the alleged scumbags, scammers, criminals and facilitators at UB and various sister companies to reveal all communications between myself and them. Travis Makar followed this tack earlier here. BTW, his law firm will not respond to queries about the "player class action case" he described in his 2nd interview.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevengrover View Post
    I give my full permission for the alleged scumbags, scammers, criminals and facilitators at UB and various sister companies to reveal all communications between myself and them. Travis Makar followed this tack earlier here. BTW, his law firm will not respond to queries about the "player class action case" he described in his 2nd interview.
    ROFL. So which category do I fall in -- scumbags, scammers, criminals or facilitators? Multiple of the above? You've already got me in "criminals".

    Keep digging that hole....

  7. #27
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    C'mon, Kenneth, I can see you lurking. Shit or suck egg.

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  8. #28
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    And in other UB/AP news of personal interest to me....

    I don't follow the guy (EG) or read much of what he writes because I know better than to get sucked into his troll games. I was, though, quite pleased to see him Tweet this a couple of weeks ago:

    Scott Bell ‏@ElevenGrover 12 Jun

    @gaucho2121 http://ow.ly/lXlDX this post kicked off a long legal wrangle w/David lawyers as one "investigator" threw in w/Hamilton gang.
    View conversation

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    That link comes back to this thread, and Fred David is one of the three who I surmised might not be happy about the screengrab I showed. Whether or not he is as craven as a Phil Hellmuth or Annie Duke is in regards to his UB ownership and income (he was a longtime sportsbetting partner of Russ's, after all) has no relevancy to whether or not he was an "accessory" in the UB cheating.

    What pleases me about this latest Tweet is that Bell continues to associate me with this imaginary "Hamilton gang," which has never been true. I did my damnedest to try to find a way to get Makar to release those tapes earlier, but he just would not. He was the only one who possessed them.

    Bell has also made a veiled (if laughable) threat on Twitter to hit me with an anti-SLAPP action. If you want to read what SLAPP actions are -- and any lawsuit by me most assuredly wouldn't be that -- click here. What makes me smile is that I had put aside my own plans to go after Bell in court last year after being urged by one of my sources to wait, even though doing so probably meant that the original statute of limitations then passed for that sort of civil action.

    What pleases me now is that Bell's recent Tweets have may well have recharged those limitation dates, in combination with all the defamation he engaged in earlier, as illustrated above. I can assure everyone that there is no one waiting more eagerly for the release of this documentary than me. And before someone asks, yes, things are very pissy right now. I'm of the opinion that one or more lawsuits are inevitable in all of this, and I've believed that for at least three years.

    ...

    Edit; not so veiled:

    Scott Bell ‏@ElevenGrover 17 May

    @haley_hintze Still threatening us? I will enjoy running an anti-SLAPP against you and your UB friends. Lie down with dogs...
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    Last edited by haleylh; 06-25-2013 at 04:58 PM.

  9. #29
    Gold Bootsy Collins's Avatar
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    Why don't you two grow the fuck up? Do you both realize how much credibility you both are losing from this shit? I am guessing both of you do not know the definition of professionalism. Fucking childish IMO.

     
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  10. #30
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    Haley, why is Fred David's reputation so important to you?

    Why would you aid him in a lawsuit against someone who is pursuing the criminals who stole players' money, and someone who has made efforts to help players obtain reparations?

    What is the best case scenario for Fred David?

    Did the source you are working with on your book tell you David was innocent? Did your source post the "-Fred-" transfer history on 2p2? Does your source share their life with a neo-nazi? Did your source help facilitate the theft of tens of millions of dollars from players? Did your source help Russ Hamilton get superuser's names changed after they left work at UB?

    Journalists and writers often work with unsavory sources, there is nothing wrong with that in and of itself. What is wrong, is going to the mat for your source or trying to discredit other people your source has a problem with.

    It's also wrong to downplay the wrong doing of your source.

    Haley, in this book you have planned, you aren't going to make your source look like they were used and taken advantage of, are you? David Bowie sucks, anyway imo.
    Last edited by thiefcatcher; 06-25-2013 at 06:50 PM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by thiefcatcher View Post
    Haley, why is Fred David's reputation so important to you?
    It's not. I couldn't give a rat's ass about him. On the flip side, I have no direct cheating evidence against him, despite the -fred- account being nominally his. Russ had control of that, but Fred David bears some fiduciary responsibility merely for allowing Russ unfettered access to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by thiefcatcher View Post
    Why would you aid him in a lawsuit against someone who is pursuing the criminals who stole players' money, and someone who has made efforts to help players obtain reparations?
    It wasn't done for Fred David's benefit. The screengrab was published to show the nature of the work being prepared, and that EG will libel/slander/bully anyone who doesn't give him what he wants. I'm not aware of any work EG has done that aided any reparations process, though I am aware of his involvement as a documentation provider for the Alan Engle California civil action which resulted in early UB programmer Jack Bates being grossly and falsely smeared as complicit in the UB cheating. Not exactly a high point, no matter how it's slanted.

    Quote Originally Posted by thiefcatcher View Post
    What is the best case scenario for Fred David?
    Beats me. I've never talked to the guy, never e-mailed, and I literally could not give a damn. I have some e-mail addresses for him that are years old, but since most of them went through Makar's LV internet hookup, I doubt they work. I have never communicated in any form with Fred David, either the Sr. or Jr. version.

    Quote Originally Posted by thiefcatcher View Post
    Did the source you are working with on your book tell you David was innocent? Did your source post the "-Fred-" transfer history on 2p2? Does your source share their life with a neo-nazi? Did your source help facilitate the theft of tens of millions of dollars from players? Did your source help Russ Hamilton get superuser's names changed after they left work at UB?
    This has to be EG posting under a new account. Hi, Kenneth. I will be polite, just this once.

    Answers are no; no; not if you mean the same source the second question refers to (and probably "no" anyway, because your info is a decade out of date); no, not knowingly; and not to the best of my knowledge. But you will have to wait for the evidence; I have no interest in supporting your work. If you're referring to Robert Heick's (husband of Carolyn Heick) previous behavior, I'm already fully aware of it. It's horrible stuff, and I would never apologize for that sort of behavior. That said, it's also irrelevant to the UB cheating, and the background information was leaked as part of an effort to shut up any possible info from Carolyn Heick.

    But you go ahead with whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by thiefcatcher View Post
    Journalists and writers often work with unsavory sources, there is nothing wrong with that in and of itself. What is wrong, is going to the mat for your source or trying to discredit other people your source has a problem with.
    If you're referring to Travis Makar, I've repeatedly and publicly accused him of being self-serving, particularly since he only released the tapes after the statute of limitations expired. I even went to the FBI two years ago and advised them he had these tapes, if they were really interested in getting to the bottom of the UB cheating. Apparently they weren't; I'm sure you will conjecture as to why. Makar won't be treated particularly well in my book, though I do believe the threat against him was genuine. He could have done the right thing and chose not to. He is not a hero in this.

    Referring to EG, lots of people had a problem with you/him. He drove at least three valuable sources my way with his harassment.

    Quote Originally Posted by thiefcatcher View Post
    It's also wrong to downplay the wrong doing of your source.
    Show me where I've done this? Just because I haven't revealed all of my sources or all of what they've told me, it doesn't mean I've downplayed anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by thiefcatcher View Post
    Haley, in this book you have planned, you aren't going to make your source look like they were used and taken advantage of, are you? David Bowie sucks, anyway imo.
    Nope. I like some Bowie songs, but others suck. Suffragette City is crap-ass, but Changes and Fame are great.

  12. #32
    Gold Bootsy Collins's Avatar
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    How can you not like Suffragette City? Id rank that shit in the top 5 if not top 3.

     
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  13. #33
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    Also who is Fred David? Anybody who has 2 first names is bad news.

     
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  14. #34
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    I think the "Wham Bam Thank You Ma'am" is corny, lame and sexist, and the rest of the song is monotone and lurchy. The two I mentioned and Golden Years would be my top three, and now that I think about it, Golden Years might be my fave Bowie song. Not that I wrote that Bowie Tweet the other post refers to, and I only own one Bowie CD, which I never listen to anyway. Beatles and Zep and some more eclectic artists are more my taste. [/derail]

     
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      Bootsy Collins: Yeah I agree they could have cut that out. I'm going with Life on Mars, Cracked Actors and Space Oddity as my top 3. However Under Pressure is GOAT.

  15. #35
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  16. #36
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    My problem is and always has been with your ongoing lying. In your last post you make two blatant lies. First you said I have responsibility for Jack Bates inclusion in the Alan Engle lawsuit. I've corrected you on this before though it didn't stop you from writing one of your typical screeds feigning all manner of personal injury. Engles action was already filed when he first approached me, but when asked to assist, I agreed to look over the claim. In fact, I directly said Bates should not have been included, something Alan will confirm. I doubt you will bother to check with the actual source, but you have left up at least two blog entries where you originally thought Engle was long time MTT hero Bodog Ari Engel.

    The second is my discovery of the founder of American Front, Robert "nazi bob" Heick. You have said I received this info as part of a smear campaign though you have never offered any proof or even any conjecture on specific folks who might have put me up to it. That's because it didn't happen. I found it like I found most of the stuff in the case, hard work. As to relevance, if you can't see relevance in Carolyn's ties with the founder of a violent hate group while she was involved in a massive ongoing fraud operation at an offshore gambling site, I can't help you.

    It is relevant both to mindset and motive along with the decisions she made post-scandal. Some of his followers have been convicted of serious violence, up to and including murder. It's not an alternative lifestyle. And like many anti-social folks, Heick proved she is out for herself, players be damned. Your blogs stretching back to 2009 reference all this Makar stuff (which mostly originates with Heick). Sitting on it caused players to lose a valuable shot at full refunds. A lot of people knew about her document trove, she made it clear everyone would suffer if her actions assisting the crime were made public (appears to be happening).

    Finally, when you deride standard good cop/bad cop tactics you are just being disengenuous. Everyone uses a mix to bring players to the table. It is in fact a tactic to tell sources lies about other interlocutors to get them to trust you. It is what it is. So, don't come on here and suggest the only methods you have used to speak with sources is sugar and honesty because that is another lie. I have at least two emails you wrote threatening high stakes players if they didn't speak with you. It's sometimes unfortunate but all investigative journalists must sometimes use the stick. In this same vein, maybe you would like me to share some of the nasty things you had to say about Nat Arem along the way.

    I offered to bury this hatchet a long time ago and to cooperate with evidence. I offer it again. I have attempted to be civil and to present things fairly. In that, I feel confident that the audience that matters will see this situation exactly for what it is.

     
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      Deal: We all get that you will say anything in order to get what you want. Including lies and threats.
    Last edited by elevengrover; 06-25-2013 at 10:15 PM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevengrover View Post
    My problem is and always has been with your ongoing lying. In your last post you make two blatant lies. First you said I have responsibility for Jack Bates inclusion in the Alan Engle lawsuit. I've corrected you on this before though it didn't stop you from writing one of your typical screeds feigning all manner of personal injury. Engles action was already filed when he first approached me, but when asked to assist, I agreed to look over the claim. In fact, I directly said Bates should not have been included, something Alan will confirm. I doubt you will bother to check with the actual source, but you have left up at least two blog entries where you originally though Engle was long time MTT hero Bodog Ari Engel.

    The second is my discovery of the founder of American Front, Robert "nazi bob" Heick. You have said I received this info as part of a smear campaign though you have never offered any proof or even any conjecture on specific folks who might have put me up to it. That's because it didn't happen. I found it like I found most of the stuff in the case, hard work. As to relevance, if you can't see relevance in Carolyn's ties with the founder of a violent hate group while she was involved in a massive ongoing fraud operation at an offshore gambling site, I can't help you.

    It is relevant both to mindset and motive along with the decisions she made post-scandal. Some of his followers have been convicted of serious violence, up to and including murder. It's not an alternative lifestyle. And like many anti-social folks, Heick proved she is out for herself, players be damned. Your blogs stretching back to 2009 reference all this Makar stuff (which mostly originates with Heick). Sitting on it caused players to lose a valuable shot at full refunds. A lot of people knew about her document trove, she made it clear everyone would suffer if her actions assisting the crime were made public (appears to be happening).

    Finally, when you deride standard good cop/bad cop tactics you are just being disengenuous. Everyone uses a mix to bring players to the table. It is in fact a tactic to tell sources lies about other interlocutors to get them to trust you. It is what it is. But don't come on here and suggest the only methods you have used to speak with sources is sugar and honesty because that is another lie. I have at least two emails you wrote threatening high stakes players if they didn't speak with you. It's sometimes unfortunate but all investigative journalists must sometimes use the stick.

    I offered to bury this hatchet a long time ago and to cooperate with evidence. I offer it again. I have attempted to be civil and to present things fairly. In that, I feel confident that the audience that matters will see this situation exactly for what it is.
    So you are saying it was absolutely Engle then, regarding Bates? He declined to answer. That's not a lie by me; it has been truly my belief based on what I have seen. What I remain curious about is why Engle would have inserted Bates into that complaint in the first place; there was absolutely no rationale for it, and almost no mention of Bates' name, except for your posts and blogs referencing brainwashdodo's mention of Jack Bates, which he later corrected to be Jack McClelland. You're the one who kept insisting that, no, Bates was really the one BWDD meant.

    It was only a few months ago that I realized Ari and Alan were two different people. Mistaken identity. Neither one ever bothered to correct me on it, and they could have.

    If what you are saying about your discovery of Bob Heick's neo-Nazi past is true, then it was most fortuitous timing on your part, as that post appeared quite literally as evidence that I published -- and which I am now confident originated from Heick -- was made public. I mean, like, within 48 hours. Nonetheless, if you insist you discovered it on your own, congrats! Good find. Just like the Whitefish stuff, which really was a good find. You're still wrong on your Nazi conclusion, but you do like these weird conspiracy and political theories, so go ahead and run with it. (I'll give you a little hint: Why do you think Bob Heick dropped out of the American Nazi movement?)

    I'll also clue you in on one other thing. I've been a writer and editor for most of my adult life, and I have a well-developed sense of writing styles. The brainwashdodo posts were absolutely, positively written by someone for whom English was a second language. There are linguistic constructions in those posts that could not originate from someone who grew up crapping all over the King's English in the way Americans do. It means that no one like Carolyn Heick or Travis Makar wrote those posts.

    One player I can remember badgering in such a manner as you assert was Annie, and what I wrote had more to do with raising the issues about her character and her ongoing claims regarding UB than anything else. I'm not apologizing for that, not one bit. If you're referring to Nat, we had heated words about his dropping the matter in the way he did, and I'm just going to say I was aware of far more there than you were. He did some really good stuff early on, but he walked away when the going got tough, and I simply don't believe all of what he's said.

    And above all, you've still never apologized for your claims that I was a part of this ridiculousness, this blackmail plot. That remains highly offensive to me -- way, way beyond the pale. "It is in fact a tactic to tell sources lies about other interlocutors to get them to trust you." No, that's not a legit "tactic," and your lie about me was not intended to get -anyone- to trust you. It was pure bullying.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bootsy Collins View Post
    Also who is Fred David? Anybody who has 2 first names is bad news.
    Fred David was the co-boss (with Russ Hamilton) of one of the largest Nevada sportsbetting operations of the '90s, run out of David's house. From what I've heard they had a better information set-up than many of the Vegas casino books themselves. That's how he ended up being one of the major investors who joined UB along with Hamilton and others. The -fred- transfer account of UB cheating infamy was originally his, and it was one of several such accounts given to the prominent owners. They were designed essentially to launder money, to help other high rollers get money into and off of the site, and to shuffle money between players.

    Six of the primary owners had these named transfer accounts, and there were three or four more generic ones.

  19. #39
    Cubic Zirconia
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    First,sorry for the Bowie derail. That line was supposed to go in a tweet. No idea how it made it into my post. Haha, hope it isn't permanently marked on government servers.

    Second, I'm definitely not Bell. Maybe Druff can come in here and confirm we have different IPs. I'm just someone who has followed this story for a while. I've been paying close attention.



    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post
    On the flip side, I have no direct cheating evidence against him, despite the -fred- account being nominally his. Russ had control of that, but Fred David bears some fiduciary responsibility merely for allowing Russ unfettered access to it.
    So, the best case scenario is that he allowed someone else "unfettered" access to his company account? This someone used the account it to move around a lot of stolen money. So you bumped this months old thread to rub it in Bell's face that this guy is suing him?
    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post
    Answers are no; no; not if you mean the same source the second question refers to (and probably "no" anyway, because your info is a decade out of date); no, not knowingly; and not to the best of my knowledge. But you will have to wait for the evidence; I have no interest in supporting your work. If you're referring to Robert Heick's (husband of Carolyn Heick) previous behavior, I'm already fully aware of it. It's horrible stuff, and I would never apologize for that sort of behavior. That said, it's also irrelevant to the UB cheating, and the background information was leaked as part of an effort to shut up any possible info from Carolyn Heick.
    First, it is very relevant, in the context of a thread that you came into trying to discredit someone else's work. This is a court of public opinion. Anyone that married a neo-nazi is going to have their character called into question.




    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post
    and not to the best of my knowledge.
    Well, why would Russ send her this email, just on a whim? Hoping she, who apparently didn't work at UB at the time, could change it for him?




    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post
    If you're referring to Travis Makar, I've repeatedly and publicly accused him of being self-serving, particularly since he only released the tapes after the statute of limitations expired. I even went to the FBI two years ago and advised them he had these tapes, if they were really interested in getting to the bottom of the UB cheating. Apparently they weren't; I'm sure you will conjecture as to why. Makar won't be treated particularly well in my book, though I do believe the threat against him was genuine. He could have done the right thing and chose not to. He is not a hero in this.
    Nope, not talking about Makar. But, while we're at it, if what those young people claim he did to them in Utah(or wherever it was he got arrested) is true, some people would probably consider him unsavory, too.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by thiefcatcher View Post
    First,sorry for the Bowie derail. That line was supposed to go in a tweet. No idea how it made it into my post. Haha, hope it isn't permanently marked on government servers.

    Second, I'm definitely not Bell. Maybe Druff can come in here and confirm we have different IPs. I'm just someone who has followed this story for a while. I've been paying close attention.



    So, the best case scenario is that he allowed someone else "unfettered" access to his company account? This someone used the account it to move around a lot of stolen money. So you bumped this months old thread to rub it in Bell's face that this guy is suing him?
    I didn't know Fred David was suing Bell. The Tweet didn't say that. And, no, the anti-SLAPP line directed at me is what got me fired up in the first place, and then I couldn't find it for a sec.

    Quote Originally Posted by thiefcatcher View Post
    First, it is very relevant, in the context of a thread that you came into trying to discredit someone else's work. This is a court of public opinion. Anyone that married a neo-nazi is going to have their character called into question.
    I think that's a fair point, re character question. But I'll also tell you GUYS something; sometimes women marry a certain guy for reasons men can't fathom. I wouldn't even pretend to know all the answers to this, but I bet it's more complex than any of you (or me) know.

    Quote Originally Posted by thiefcatcher View Post
    Well, why would Russ send her this email, just on a whim? Hoping she, who apparently didn't work at UB at the time, could change it for him?

    This is cool, and I have not seen it before right now.

    I believe the answer is this, and it's stated in general terms because I don't have privy to Heick's exact employment dates. There was a partial carryover of staff for a short period of time, and I believe Heick was part of that, separate from her UBT work. I have e-mails from Shah (Matloubi) himself in this same timeframe, coordinating stuff hand-in-hand with the frat boys at AP, and we can see from Makar's tapes that there was cooperation and communication going on between the UB and AP factions well into 2008, until the parallel scandals split them apart.

    Heick was high-level hired help, but still hired help, and if Russ and Mansour were still there helping to direct things, she would still be expected to follow the bosses' orders. This e-mail dates from before the cheating was discovered, and I don't think Heick was any sort of poker expert to the point where she would have recognized the cheating herself.

    That said, she absolutely did change those account names. Now, did she do it because she was part of the cheating, or did she do it because Russ Hamilton told her that he needed these extra accounts changed as part of his own ongoing (and faked) claims to be investigating these increasing cheating reports himself? After all, that's part of the pretense for why God Mode was created.

    Remember also that Heick's primary duties were essentially two-fold: to look for credit-card fraud using ieSnare, and to help provide customer-service to VIP customers, especially those connected to the site's primary owners. Her "security" title had to do with credit-card security; it had not much at all to do with the security of the game play, which was left to the bosses/poker experts. I've seen players misconstrue the meaning of various "security" titles within poker sites all the time; it just does not mean what players want to think it means.

    Quote Originally Posted by thiefcatcher View Post
    Nope, not talking about Makar. But, while we're at it, if what those young people claim he did to them in Utah (or wherever it was he got arrested) is true, some people would probably consider him unsavory, too.
    I don't necessarily disagree with this, but if I remember right the circumstances surrounding the death of his son were part of his explanation when I asked about the arrest. I did my very best to try to get the info (the tapes) from him, and at one point he was calling at me at four in the morning and talking for 90 minutes at a time about all sorts of stuff. But I couldn't get him to release those tapes, and it's pretty clear why, in light of all the stuff he's since released. Travis tended to ramble on about all sorts of different things. He claimed he had some sort of permit or license for the equipment in his car, and that the charges were later dropped, but I agree with you that it was weird and that there was probably stuff he wasn't telling me. But, I'm done with the guy; he had his chance.

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