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Thread: ElevenGrover announces UB documentary, Ultimate Beat

  1. #121
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Also, I would like to ask that nobody post links to torrents of the film, or any other illegal way to download it.

    I will request the same thing regarding Haley's book, when it comes out.

    I do understand why Haley won't pay the $2.99 to watch it. She and Scott hate each other, and I would never want to give a penny to someone I hated.

    As I've said before, I like both Scott and Haley, and it's too bad that they don't get along, but that's the way it ended up. I have never taken sides in their disputes, and I will continue to support the work that both are doing.

    I also don't fault either of them for any parts that are inaccurate. It's a very difficult job to take an extremely complicated situation, piece together everything from little tidbits you get here and there, and put together a coherent and accurate story on the matter. It's even more difficult when you are not afforded the access given to law enforcement, and when your budget to research is very small.

    It's better to take educated guesses with the blanks in matters like these than to completely omit areas where you're not 100% sure. Of course, anyone accused of wrongdoing should be given the opportunity to defend themselves, but I haven't seen any issue where accused AP/UB conspirators have tried to tell their side and were silenced.

  2. #122
    Diamond chinamaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker View Post

    It don't show whose viewing it on Vimeo ever as far as I know and I also downloaded it then streamed the film to my hdtv.

    The documentary is well presented and I learned some stuff as well. The biggest negative critique I have which isn't a problem for me but could be for some users is that the film will be tough for someone who don't already know some in depth details of UB's issues to understand it. I'm sure EG already knows it's not geared towards someone who don't know anything about the history of UB but maybe a 5 to 10 minute synopsis in the beginning of what happened could help some understand whose not up on the history of UB at all understand it a little better.

    Overall, I enjoyed this and a few parts I know I will be re-watching over the next week or two because they were very detailed where I want to see them again.
    I think the above is a good and fair review.

    You are also right that NoahSD's part near the end had no audio. Weird. Made me try to adjust something, as well.

    My only criticisms:

    - I wish there was more stuff on AP. I know Haley has written volumes on that, so I am really looking forward to her book coming out, so I can read all about that side of it.

    - They probably should have slowed down a bit when explaining ieLogic, Excapsa, Blast Off, eWorld Holdings, etc. Those parts will probably be very difficult to follow for the average viewer. A graph showing the structure of all of these companies would have been very helpful.

    - For the most part, everything between 2009 and early 2011 was omitted, aside from the mention of the "10% lost" hand histories. I thought there should have been some airtime given to the Cereus rebranding and the attempt by Leggett (and Sebok) to portray UB as a new company that was sold to people unrelated to the cheating.

    I don't mind them using Jonathan Little. Brad Booth's actions have been a lot more scandalous than Little's, and he was featured a ton (as well as had some production credits). I don't really care that much about the personal failings of the people involved with the film. I just care about it being accurate and the story getting out -- especially when it comes to guys like Pierson who skated away mostly unscathed.
    yes they def should have slowed down with the companies. i am somewhat familiar with these companies and it was still confusing.

  3. #123
    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I don't mind them using Jonathan Little. Brad Booth's actions have been a lot more scandalous than Little's, and he was featured a ton (as well as had some production credits). I don't really care that much about the personal failings of the people involved with the film. I just care about it being accurate and the story getting out -- especially when it comes to guys like Pierson who skated away mostly unscathed.
    I never really thought about Brad Booth because I know he was personally screwed out of a whole lot of money from UB that it forced him to sell off personal assets which for a while took him out of the game. When someone takes beats like this left and right from super hero bets/calls because obviously they know what he has it still brings a negative feeling to a person about their game. It did the same for Matusow who said the UB cheating ruined his confidence for a while.

    Not that it this makes it acceptable but in ways I feel for Brad Booth as he did all this shit because he personally was screwed so bad from UB which is why I don't mind seeing him in the film. He shouldn't turn around and cheated on a staking type deal but he might not have been in that situation if UB cheaters didn't do what they did to him.

    With that said, what did UB/AP do to Jonathan Little? If they did nothing and ElevenGrover just used him because he's an intelligent guy who agreed to do an interview then with Little's past I would have picked someone else.

  4. #124
    Poker Investigative Journalist
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    I hear Bell's ludicrous theory regarding brainwashdodo's identity and purpose made it into the film. That whole section of the film is crackpot nonsense, and I don't even need to watch it to state that. Brainwashdodo, aka Zoltan Rozsa, was part of a tiny group of Costa Rica customer service workers who had begun to steal from the players (and from the company), by accessing players' "secret question" passwords and essentially freerolling the accounts of high-rolling Cereus players. It is presumed that Zoltan and one other person were canned when this escapade was discovered, though this particular cheating episode was never acknowledged publicly.

    Ol' Zoltan thought he had himself a get-out-of-jail-free card, because he was clever enough to have searched on the accounts of Russ Hamilton and others, and he figured that he'd spill the beans on Hamilton et al if he didn't get money and a job-restoration/promotion from Paul Leggett. Except Leggett wouldn't pay him and told him to go blackmail Russ Hamilton instead, which is exactly what Zoltan did. Leggett also went to the OIJ (Costa Rica's FBI) with Zoltan's threats.

    Leggett wouldn't talk to me directly about it, for some unknown reason (lulz), but I did confirm it with JoJo Priam, a high-level insider who was working as Leggett's assistant for a while, and that included confirmation that the e-mails between Leggett and Zoltan were legitimate. What happened next is that Zoltan sent his blackmail demands on to Hamilton and began his little publicity campaign on 2+2. Since some of the stuff was computer-based, Hamilton had to have Travis Makar explain it, and when Hamilton sent Makar to Costa Rica to meet Zoltan and find out if the guy was real, that's where Makar realized that he was in way over his head and began to have cold feet. Zoltan was indeed real; Makar tried to snap a photo of him on his cel phone but just got a picture of Zoltan's back as he disappeared down a busy CR street.

    In no way am I apologizing for anything Makar did, by the way. In retrospect, he had plenty of chances to come clean and he chose to protect himself instead. The full extent of his involvement was proven when he finally released that cache of documents he'd been sitting on.

    Once Zoltan's blackmail threats appeared on 2+2 -- and they appeared to be very real, because Hamilton did pay Zoltan -- Makar started digging on those laptops. Makar had already helped Hamilton tape those conversations with Pierson and Friedberg and Millar, and it was somewhere in there that the light went on, and Makar realized that he was probably an accessory to a whole big bunch of felonies and that Hamilton would willingly hang Makar out to dry if needed. That started another whole chain reaction of events in motion, and no one outside of Makar himself was aware of all the elements in play. Travis Makar is no one's hero, and that can't be stated clearly enough.

    But the causality Bell asserts (from what I've heard), that Zoltan and Makar and Carolyn Heick were all in cahoots to blackmail Hamilton, that's just ludicrous. I have tons of evidence that proves the contrary, and I've already published quite a bit of it. It's the opposite that's true; they were loyal workers in what was an admittedly squirrelly operation, only to find out that their boss (Hamilton) was a giant crook who was willing to hang the whole affair around their necks if he could find a way to do it.

    In typical fashion, Bell just discards any evidence that doesn't fit the theories he favors or the smears he seeks to inflict. I expect that the film will be about 70% good, solid digging and reconstruction, and about 30% lunatic theories and vengeful smears against anyone who chose not to speak to him, because that's about the ratio Bell's demonstrated in the past. He's just not a professional.
    Last edited by haleylh; 10-24-2013 at 07:35 AM.

  5. #125
    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    No offense with this comment but from how invested both haley an Scott are with UB/AP I can't see them just ignoring what the other has to say which by that I bet haley secretly will watch Scott Bell's documentary and he will secretly at least read snippets if not get haley's book but neither will ever admit it.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post
    I hear Bell's ludicrous theory regarding brainwashdodo's identity and purpose made it into the film. That whole section of the film is crackpot nonsense, and I don't even need to watch it to state that. Brainwashdodo, aka Zoltan Rozsa, was part of a tiny group of Costa Rica customer service workers who had begun to steal from the players (and from the company), by accessing players' "secret question" passwords and essentially freerolling the accounts of high-rolling Cereus players. It is presumed that Zoltan and one other person were canned when this escapade was discovered, though this particular cheating episode was never acknowledged publicly.

    Ol' Zoltan thought he had himself a get-out-of-jail-free card, because he was clever enough to have searched on the accounts of Russ Hamilton and others, and he figured that he'd spill the beans on Hamilton et al if he didn't get money and a job-restoration/promotion from Paul Leggett. Except Leggett wouldn't pay him and told him to go blackmail Russ Hamilton instead, which is exactly what Zoltan did. Leggett also went to the OIJ (Costa Rica's FBI) with Zoltan's threats.

    Leggett wouldn't talk to me directly about it, for some unknown reason (lulz), but I did confirm it with JoJo Priam, a high-level insider who was working as Leggett's assistant for a while, and that included confirmation that the e-mails between Leggett and Zoltan were legitimate. What happened next is that Zoltan sent his blackmail demands on to Hamilton and began his little publicity campaign on 2+2. Since some of the stuff was computer-based, Hamilton had to have Travis Makar explain it, and when Hamilton sent Makar to Costa Rica to meet Zoltan and find out if the guy was real, that's where Makar realized that he was in way over his head and began to have cold feet. Zoltan was indeed real; Makar tried to snap a photo of him on his cel phone but just got a picture of Zoltan's back as he disappeared down a busy CR street.

    In no way am I apologizing for anything Makar did, by the way. In retrospect, he had plenty of chances to come clean and he chose to protect himself instead. The full extent of his involvement was proven when he finally released that cache of documents he'd been sitting on.

    Once Zoltan's blackmail threats appeared on 2+2 -- and they appeared to be very real, because Hamilton did pay Zoltan -- Makar started digging on those laptops. Makar had already helped Hamilton tape those conversations with Pierson and Friedberg and Millar, and it was somewhere in there that the light went on, and Makar realized that he was probably an accessory to a whole big bunch of felonies and that Hamilton would willingly hang Makar out to dry if needed. That started another whole chain reaction of events in motion, and no one outside of Makar himself was aware of all the elements in play. Travis Makar is no one's hero, and that can't be stated clearly enough.

    But the causality Bell asserts (from what I've heard), that Zoltan and Makar and Carolyn Heick were all in cahoots to blackmail Hamilton, that's just ludicrous. I have tons of evidence that proves the contrary, and I've already published quite a bit of it. It's the opposite that's true; they were loyal workers in what was an admittedly squirrelly operation, only to find out that their boss (Hamilton) was a giant crook who was willing to hang the whole affair around their necks if he could find a way to do it.

    In typical fashion, Bell just discards any evidence that doesn't fit the theories he favors or the smears he seeks to inflict. I expect that the film will be about 70% good, solid digging and reconstruction, and about 30% lunatic theories and vengeful smears against anyone who chose not to speak to him, because that's about the ratio Bell's demonstrated in the past. He's just not a professional.
    To be fair, Scott pretty much stops short of saying "this is who it is" and instead throws out the circumstantial evidence and coincidences, letting the viewer decide if he's on the right trail or not. In my opinion, he did a good job of not taking too many leaps of faith and leaving a lot of loose ends instead of trying to wrap every angle up in a bow. His assertions are more like an indictment than a criminal conviction.

    As much as you hate each other you really should watch the film because I (and many other people) would like to hear your opinion on it. I know you don't want to give him a penny, but many in the poker community would like you to reconsider.
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

  7. #127
    Yet oddly, the guy running IDS hardly ever heard of this Zoltan Rozsa. Seems like a guy blackmailing your senior leadership using your internal network would at least pop up on the guy's radar, but he didn't. In fact, the guy running IDS said he later heard about Rozsa and that he worked for UltimateBet and reported to them in Canada. If you ask me, Zoltan has the look of one of Bob Heick's friends. Keep carrying that water for criminals.

    And because if you were actually correct, Carolyn and Russ would have a slam dunk in a defamation case but they won't file one because of that Discovery thing and also for the same reasons that Carolyn never lifted a finger to help players or shareholders but did decide to help you.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by elevengrover View Post
    Keep carrying that water for criminals.
    I never have and don't plan to start. Keep giving me more reasons to pursue my own libel case against you, loser.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elevengrover View Post
    Keep carrying that water for criminals.
    I never have and don't plan to start. Keep giving me more reasons to pursue my own libel case against you, loser.
    Come on you 2 crazy kids, play nice.
    (•_•) ..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hockey Guy
    I'd say good luck in the freeroll but I'm pretty sure you'll go on a bender to self-sabotage yourself & miss it completely or use it as the excuse of why you didn't cash.

  10. #130
    Platinum Rollo Tomasi's Avatar
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    just finished watching, my take is whether or not Scott did or did not fill in some of the blanks correctly, getting the overall story told in an organized timeline is important, I hope Haleyh who has done incredible work on the AP/UB scandals, publishes soon and gets a movie deal, the important thing is to make sure the crooks at iOvation owned by Pierson along with shareholders Hamiton, Hellmuth et al are exposed and ieSnare fails

    the crooks should be blocked from cashing in on iEsnare,
    get as much info as possible into the hands of Neveda Gaming Commission members and get iOvation banned, hopefully the rest will follow suit, the word needs to get out that iOvation and iEsnare were partially if not totally financed with cheated players money

    also did i miss something or was Sebock not mentioned at all

    no wonder Prahlad went to work for UB, nice refund dude

    Last edited by Rollo Tomasi; 11-03-2013 at 05:09 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by tony bagadonuts View Post

    Look Corrigan, you've been a sideshow clown around here from the jump
    It's tough to take you seriously when you've made your bones acting the fool.
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    Which one is he?

  11. #131
    just finished watching, and I have still some big unanswered questions:



    1. What is this???
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    2. When was the last time this man ate some greens, went for a walk or was even outside???
    Name:  unhealthy.JPG
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    3. Why did this man's eyes keep darting to the left? What is he trying to hide?
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    Comments
      
      Deal: inquiring minds want to know
    Martin Curacao 95.5 KWNR Radio Host "We see 192 000 miles for your car. How did you put on that many miles since 2005?"

    2005 Chevy Impala owner "Drove it"

  12. #132
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I can answer #3.

    I hate talking to cameras, especially when the guy asking me the questions is in a different direction than the camera. Just feels unnatural and my eyes naturally move to the person I'm talking to.

    LOL @ your questions though

  13. #133
    Bronze DutchDoDo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by haleylh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elevengrover View Post
    Keep carrying that water for criminals.
    I never have and don't plan to start. Keep giving me more reasons to pursue my own libel case against you, loser.
    Geeeeeeezzzzzzz......you guys sound like a bunch of teenagers.
    Bury the hatchet and start working together like adults. Both might be holding a piece to this puzzle that could be resolved when being combined. The main goal of both should be to get to the bottom of this, it doesn't have to be hand in hand. That being said, appreciate the dedication and time you guys both put into this thing.

  14. #134
    Diamond mulva's Avatar
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    on youtube


    Quote Originally Posted by bottomset_69 View Post
    Johnny Manziel will be the 1st pick in the draft. I truly believe not only will Johnny Manziel be rookie of the year, quite possibly he will be MVP as his style will shock defensive coordinators. Manziel may only be 6 feet tall, but he has size 15 feet. And he has HUGE hands. I know some NFL scouts so I know what I am talking about.



  15. #135
    1 hr 23 min. Can someone just sum that up lol

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldTrumpsHairPiece View Post
    1 hr 23 min. Can someone just sum that up lol

    Sure, i watched it all while doing some easy work at my desk. Cliffs:

    Several cameos of Druff opining. Lots of cheating. Lots of hands in the pie. Enjoyed watching Brad Booth recount losing everything. Played with him a couple of times and he was an arrogant prick. All in all, it was a good use of 1.23 hours.

  17. #137
    I no longer have sympathy for players like Brad Booth.

    Brad was killing it playing live poker cash games at the Bellagio at the time.

    He should've stayed the fuck away from internet poker in the first place and he never should have trusted Phil Hellmuth Jr.

    I would like to know exactly what these criminals made off Ultimatebet.

    When I say criminals I mean...

    Scott Tom
    Russ Hamilton
    Phil Hellmuth Jr
    Annie Duke
    Prahlad Friedman


  18. #138
    Does anybody remember an account at AP named Chuck999? He was the biggest loser in the 3-6, 5-10 and 10-20 limit holdem games. Basically played every hand as aggro as possible and showed up with air on the river most of the time. I'm thinking that was a Scott Tom acct to give away free money and promote the "great action" at AP. The guy was such a beauty and talked mad shit too. the good ole days

  19. #139
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by padre33 View Post
    Does anybody remember an account at AP named Chuck999? He was the biggest loser in the 3-6, 5-10 and 10-20 limit holdem games. Basically played every hand as aggro as possible and showed up with air on the river most of the time. I'm thinking that was a Scott Tom acct to give away free money and promote the "great action" at AP. The guy was such a beauty and talked mad shit too. the good ole days
    Probably. Sounds kinda familiar.

    I don't think it was Scott Tom. There were just a lot of horrible players there in those days.

    I won 300k playing 40-80 limit holdem in 4 months, shortly before the scandal.

    OPEN THE DOOR, GET ON THE FLOOR, EVERYBODY WALK THE DINOSAUR

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