If you're still undecided on this monster.
Could you ever imagine an obviously intelligent man like Assad call himself a genius?... I couldn't see it.
Folks in the USA should be jealous of Syria in regard to quality of their leader... you got Trump LOL
Originally Posted by Salty_Aus
His style of diverting questions and discrediting everything that is not his narrative reminds me a lot of Putin and trump. Everyone is lying except him. Very classic technique used by cult leaders, where only what they say is truth. FBI reports, irrelevant; photographs, photoshop; sworn testimony for a dozen people including doctors and high ranking officials; traitors that have been paid to lie.
Many times you can take one thing and buy into the logic. That’s also something Fox News and other leaders do, they break everything down so that they give a small chance that something might not be true. But as rationale human beings we need to add it all up and realize that as a whole it is clearly bullsht.
Maybe the FBI is lying, but then so are 12 witnesses that are risking their lives my coming forward and then the photos ALSO have to be doctored.
It’s also how we know the truth about trump; you can take one or 2 things and show how there is reasonable doubt but you can’t add up 50 different things all of which have a slim amount of reasonable doubt and not see that as a whole he’s a lying piece of shit conman who tricks stupid people; which unfortunately is the majority of people.
We pray for understanding as we all occasionally request back door action by accident, when we tried to call an electrician. It happens, it simply happens.
I thought he did a stellar job, just about everything asked was a loaded question. Thought his mannerisms, voice inflection, gestures and demeanor was open and honest.
His style of diverting questions and discrediting everything that is not his narrative reminds me a lot of Putin and trump. Everyone is lying except him. Very classic technique used by cult leaders, where only what they say is truth. FBI reports, irrelevant; photographs, photoshop; sworn testimony for a dozen people including doctors and high ranking officials; traitors that have been paid to lie.
Many times you can take one thing and buy into the logic. That’s also something Fox News and other leaders do, they break everything down so that they give a small chance that something might not be true. But as rationale human beings we need to add it all up and realize that as a whole it is clearly bullsht.
Maybe the FBI is lying, but then so are 12 witnesses that are risking their lives my coming forward and then the photos ALSO have to be doctored.
It’s also how we know the truth about trump; you can take one or 2 things and show how there is reasonable doubt but you can’t add up 50 different things all of which have a slim amount of reasonable doubt and not see that as a whole he’s a lying piece of shit conman who tricks stupid people; which unfortunately is the majority of people.
If I'm asked a loaded question, I will rarely answer that question.
Reporter reminded me of a lawyer trying to trick someone with his questions... and he knew exactly what he was trying to accomplish.
Least we know it wasn't scripted, and I doubt the questions were pre-approved.
His style of diverting questions and discrediting everything that is not his narrative reminds me a lot of Putin and trump. Everyone is lying except him. Very classic technique used by cult leaders, where only what they say is truth. FBI reports, irrelevant; photographs, photoshop; sworn testimony for a dozen people including doctors and high ranking officials; traitors that have been paid to lie.
Many times you can take one thing and buy into the logic. That’s also something Fox News and other leaders do, they break everything down so that they give a small chance that something might not be true. But as rationale human beings we need to add it all up and realize that as a whole it is clearly bullsht.
Maybe the FBI is lying, but then so are 12 witnesses that are risking their lives my coming forward and then the photos ALSO have to be doctored.
It’s also how we know the truth about trump; you can take one or 2 things and show how there is reasonable doubt but you can’t add up 50 different things all of which have a slim amount of reasonable doubt and not see that as a whole he’s a lying piece of shit conman who tricks stupid people; which unfortunately is the majority of people.
And ur opinion of msnbc and cnn??? Very important question if u want anything u say to not obviously be about u coming out ahead.
We already touched upon this subject. It's a way of questioning everything at such degree that if used equally we can't know anything. There's larger benefit from this to the person accused of committing war crimes than there is to the accuser.I thought he did a stellar job, just about everything asked was a loaded question. Thought his mannerisms, voice inflection, gestures and demeanor was open and honest.
If I'm asked a loaded question, I will rarely answer that question.
Reporter reminded me of a lawyer trying to trick someone with his questions... and he knew exactly what he was trying to accomplish.
Least we know it wasn't scripted, and I doubt the questions were pre-approved.
Assad only accepts sources of evidence that are controlled by him.
Then there was a logical fallacy at the end. Using accurate and inaccurate weapons is in no way exclusive. It's not a situation of having your cake and eating it too. It's a case of having two cakes or using a single cake in altering ways. You can do it with just barrel bombs by altering the altitude. And obv Syrian army owns more than one type of munition.
I need you to take as much offense as you can, I won’t get into any discussions with you because you’re an idiot. Normally I’d go into how a lot of things are fucked, but there is no point in discussing whether or not water is wet with you.
And ur opinion of msnbc and cnn??? Very important question if u want anything u say to not obviously be about u coming out ahead.
We pray for understanding as we all occasionally request back door action by accident, when we tried to call an electrician. It happens, it simply happens.
It was a very simple question bud: is msnbc and CNN also propaganda or are ppl who agree with u also really smart like u?I need you to take as much offense as you can, I won’t get into any discussions with you because you’re an idiot. Normally I’d go into how a lot of things are fucked, but there is no point in discussing whether or not water is wet with you.
DJ_Chaps: NAILED HIM
Bro, didn't u sell out skatzpoker for kicks
CANADIEN SNAKE TRASH
The keyword is equally and there is no equality in this debate. Your argument loses all credibility if you refuse to acknowledge this key point.We already touched upon this subject. It's a way of questioning everything at such degree that if used equally we can't know anything. There's larger benefit from this to the person accused of committing war crimes than there is to the accuser.
I thought he did a stellar job, just about everything asked was a loaded question. Thought his mannerisms, voice inflection, gestures and demeanor was open and honest.
If I'm asked a loaded question, I will rarely answer that question.
Reporter reminded me of a lawyer trying to trick someone with his questions... and he knew exactly what he was trying to accomplish.
Least we know it wasn't scripted, and I doubt the questions were pre-approved.
Assad only accepts sources of evidence that are controlled by him.
Then there was a logical fallacy at the end. Using accurate and inaccurate weapons is in no way exclusive. It's not a situation of having your cake and eating it too. It's a case of having two cakes or using a single cake in altering ways. You can do it with just barrel bombs by altering the altitude. And obv Syrian army owns more than one type of munition.
On one side you have a hugely more powerful and influential party, who is illegally and unjustly imposing their will. They also CONTROL the majority of the resources and can therefore lead the information and disinformation wherever they please, without consequence.
When you have a country with millions of dead on their hands and they are sprouting human rights nonsense...you certainly can have your cake and eat it.
It's not much of a key point. The way Assad handles this interview is reminiscent of how former Eastern Block dealt with accusations. There's probably a KGB handbook somewhere that describes the basic methods and the desired effects.The keyword is equally and there is no equality in this debate. Your argument loses all credibility if you refuse to acknowledge this key point.
On one side you have a hugely more powerful and influential party, who is illegally and unjustly imposing their will. They also CONTROL the majority of the resources and can therefore lead the information and disinformation wherever they please, without consequence.
When you have a country with millions of dead on their hands and they are sprouting human rights nonsense...you certainly can have your cake and eat it.
I forgot the Aleppo hospital argument from logical fallacies. The Assad claim that it's suspicious that they are always accused of bombing the last hospital and implying that would be impossible. It's logical if you live in a Presidential palace. If you think about it in the context of a city under siege, then there's nothing unusual about it. Hospital in Aleppo at later stages was just a sanitized area where they had patients, medical personnel and medical equipment. I assume it took less than a day to set it up after the previous "hospital" was bombed.
Contrary to your belief US is not liked around the world in the international community. They aren't even united internally and the concept of ally is fluent. They would get plenty of shit if they were caught from a disinformation campaign similar to Russia's or Syria's. The biggest favor Russia did to US was annexation of Crimea. Before that event Europe had almost forgot what they needed US for.
Oh and before you think i'm saying US doesn't use disinformation i should probably add that they very much do. It's just different from former Eastern Block. It's more towards soft power. Relying on different methods and subtler messaging.
Not much of a key point? *laughs*It's not much of a key point. The way Assad handles this interview is reminiscent of how former Eastern Block dealt with accusations. There's probably a KGB handbook somewhere that describes the basic methods and the desired effects.
I forgot the Aleppo hospital argument from logical fallacies. The Assad claim that it's suspicious that they are always accused of bombing the last hospital and implying that would be impossible. It's logical if you live in a Presidential palace. If you think about it in the context of a city under siege, then there's nothing unusual about it. Hospital in Aleppo at later stages was just a sanitized area where they had patients, medical personnel and medical equipment. I assume it took less than a day to set it up after the previous "hospital" was bombed.
Contrary to your belief US is not liked around the world in the international community. They aren't even united internally and the concept of ally is fluent. They would get plenty of shit if they were caught from a disinformation campaign similar to Russia's or Syria's. The biggest favor Russia did to US was annexation of Crimea. Before that event Europe had almost forgot what they needed US for.
Oh and before you think i'm saying US doesn't use disinformation i should probably add that they very much do. It's just different from former Eastern Block. It's more towards soft power. Relying on different methods and subtler messaging.
It's increasingly hard to take you seriously... so I wont.
Hope you have a nice day.
“The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind.” ~Blake
Cool. I could have added that my argument is in no way tied to how equal the parties, but being the nice person i am i didn't. We could have added that to the long list of things you try score points with without actually acknowledging arguments you can't refute. No, really it's refreshing. I've never seen that before.Not much of a key point? *laughs*
It's increasingly hard to take you seriously... so I wont.
Hope you have a nice day.
“The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind.” ~Blake
Literally does nothing to the veracity of accusations how equal the accused and accuser are. Are you under the impression that in civilian courts some form of equality exists between common criminals and the government that accuses them? In some countries there are efforts taken to try to make different accused equal with each other, but that's the extent of it.
No, but really this is clearly about me being too stubborn to change my opinion. What else could it be, when you make such compelling arguments based on childish assumptions that have never been true.
I hope it's a beautiful day in your part of the world.Cool. I could have added that my argument is in no way tied to how equal the parties, but being the nice person i am i didn't. We could have added that to the long list of things you try score points with without actually acknowledging arguments you can't refute. No, really it's refreshing. I've never seen that before.
Literally does nothing to the veracity of accusations how equal the accused and accuser are. Are you under the impression that in civilian courts some form of equality exists between common criminals and the government that accuses them? In some countries there are efforts taken to try to make different accused equal with each other, but that's the extent of it.
No, but really this is clearly about me being too stubborn to change my opinion. What else could it be, when you make such compelling arguments based on childish assumptions that have never been true.
Do something special with your loved ones today if it's possible.
Good day, Sir.
David Duke drew a crowd of 50k in Syria, the topic? Peace.
Lets look at Bibi's documents and Israel/Iran objectively.
Iran has zero bombs but SUPPOSEDLY had some plans. If true Bibi should tell the inspectors where to find Iran's secret program.
Israel did Sept 11 and the USS liberty.
Lied us into the Iraq war causing 7 trillion in debt and 5775 American deaths and unimaginable misery for countless people around the world. This month in Iraq "526 Killed in Iraq or in Iraqi Operations near the Syrian Border During April; 1,444 Found in Mass Graves"
Stole nuclear weapons from the USA, currently has over 400 nukes and left a toxic and expensive mess for the US to clean up.
Has subverted our govt against us.
Engaged in a covert plot to genocide white people worldwide.
I could go on and on and on.
So what should we do? Imo get basing rights and recover our $7 tril and bring the real Sept 11 masterminds to justice. What were you thinking, attack Iran...NOT
As if that wasn't enough
The leaked email in full
From: ********
Sent: 22nd June 2018 08:27
To: *********
Subject: Grave concern about the 'redacted' Douma report
Dear ******,
I wish to express, as a member of the FFM (Fact Finding Mission) team that conducted the investigation into the alleged chemical attack in Douma on 7 April, my gravest concern at the redacted version of the FFM report, which I understand was at the behest of the ODG. (Office of the Director General). After reading this modified report, which incidentally no other team member who deployed into Douma has had the opportunity to do, I was struck by how much it misrepresents the facts. Many of the facts and observations outlined in the full version are inextricably interconnected and, by selectively omitting certain ones, an unintended bias has been introduced into the report, undermining its credibility. In other cases, some crucial facts that have remained in the redacted version have morphed into something quite differentto what was initially drafted. If I may, I will outline some specific aspects to the redacted report that are particularly worrisome.
The statement in paragraph 8.3 of the final conclusions 'The team has sufficient evidence at this time to determine that chlorine, or another reactive chlorine-containing chemical, was likely released from cylinders', is highly misleading and not supported by the facts. The only evidence available at this moment is that some samples collected at Locations 2 and 4 were in contact with one or more chemicals that contain a reactive chlorine atom. Such chemicals could include molecular chlorine, phosgene, cyanogen chloride, hydrochloric acid, hydrogen chloride or sodium hypochlorite (the major ingredient of household chlorine-based bleach). Purposely singling out chlorine gas as one of the possibilities is disingenuous. It is also worth noting that the term 'reactive chlorine-containing chemical' used in the redacted report is, in fact, inaccurate. It actually describes a reactive chemical that contains chlorine which itself (the chlorine) is not necessarily reactive e.g. chlorophenol. The original report uses the more accurate term 'a chemical containing reactive chlorine'.
The redacted report states that the gas was likely released from the cylinders (in Locations 2 and 4). The original report purposely emphasised the fact that, although the cylinders might have been the source of the suspected chemical release, there was insufficient evidence to affirm this. It is possible the error was simply a typo. This is a major deviation from the original report.
Paragraph 8.2 states that 'based on the high levels of various chlorinated organic derivatives, [...] detected in environmental samples'. Describing the levels as 'high' likely overstates the extent of levels of chlorinated organic derivatives detected. They were, in most cases, present only in parts per billion range, as low as 1-2 ppb, which is essentially trace quantities.
The original report discusses in detail the inconsistency between the victims' symptoms, as reported by witnesses and seen in video recordings. Omitting this section of the report (including the Epidemiology which has been removed in its entirety) has a serious negative impact on the report as this section is inextricably linked to the chemical agent identified. It either supports or detracts from the confidence in the identity of any possible chemical. In this case the confidence in the identity of chlorine or any choking agent is drawn into question precisely because of the inconsistency with the reported and observed symptoms. The inconsistency was not only noted by the FFM team but strongly noted by three toxicologists with expertise in exposure to CW (Chemical Weapons) agents.
The original report has extensive sections regarding the placement of the cylinders at both locations as well as the relative damage caused to the impact points, compared to that caused to the cylinders suspected of being the sources of the toxic chemical. These sections are essentially absent from the redacted report. This information was important in assessing the likelihood of the 'presence' of toxic chemicals versus the 'use' of toxic chemicals.
A feature of this investigation and report was the robust and extensive scientific basis for sampling plans and analysing the data collected. A comprehensive bibliography of peer-reviewed scientific literature was attached to support and enhance the credibility of the work of the mission. This has unfortunately been omitted from the redacted report.
By singling out chlorine above other equally plausible substances containing reactive chlorine and presenting it as a fact in isolation creates, I believe, a level of partiality that would negatively impact on the perceived credibility of the report, and by extension that of the Organisation. I am requesting that the fact-finding report be released in its entirety as I fear that this redacted version no longer reflects the work of the team. The original report contains facts and observations that are all equally valid. The fact that inconsistencies are highlighted or observations not fully understood does not justify their omission. The inconsistencies and observations are based on the evidence and data collected. Further information in the future may help resolve them but the facts as they stand at present will not alter and need to be reported.
If the redacted version is to be released, I respectfully request to attach my differing observations, in accordance with the spirit of paragraph 62 of part II of the Verification Annex of the CWC.
Yours sincerely
---------
1 - 2 parts per billion. lol
My bathroom has higher traces of chlorine/bleach.
So much for the White Helmets eyewitness saying it was dropped from the air.
The bellingcat take on the email...
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2019...crucial-facts/
...cliffs...
1. The email is about an earlier interim report (26 pages, July 2018)
2. The final report addresses complaints (106 pages, March 2019)
3. The final report is based on more consultations,studies and fact find missions
4. Just read the thingie
5. It really is nothing
Here's the compilation of Bellingcat's open source work, The New York Times/Forensic Architecture and the final OPCW report all mostly about this...You are much tougher than Sonatine because I believe you argue in good faith and are also in search of the truth, whereas his posts are pure emotion and thus totally unedifying.
But you are incorrect w/r/t the claim that the canisters are now confirmed to have been dropped from the air. The most recent leak directly contradicts that + shows that the truth was redacted from the final report: "The report also included photographs of the alleged holes made on rooftops from what were claimed to be chemical munitions – but noted that adjacent buildings had similar craters and holes that clearly were not the result of chemical munitions. In other words, evidence suggests the canisters were likely placed into position, taking advantage of holes and craters created by conventional weapons."
They were staging this attack 8 years later (perhaps) because they knew Trump was itching to pull out, and they still hadn't gotten rid of Assad. They need to get rid of Assad to build the pipeline from Turkey -> Qatar.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena...urce-evidence/
...that's 3 different sources that all came to the same conclusion that canisters had been dropped.
Yes normal munitions cause holes, but that's not how forensics work. Not having a hole clearly would be abnormal, but there was quite a bit more details that matched the theory that canisters had been dropped than just holes. TBH concluding from the presence of other holes that canisters must have been planted is just straight retarded. It's a fucking war zone.
But anyway 3 different studies. Each far more extensive and thorough than one memorandum, leaked emails and anonymous whistleblowers have provided combined.
This also isn't an isolated incident. Part of the reason why canisters were suspected as the source, is that Syrian Army has used the same method before. The canisters matched previous cases.
Oh man well I'll let you know now that I'll be taking a long time to respond to this, b/c I want to read the article in its entirety.
One correction: the whistle-blowers aren't anonymous - they're members of the OPCW fact-finding mission to Syria.
Anyways - I'll be back.
Whistleblower thing is a bit murky. Ian Henderson is known publicly, but he hasn't personally given any statements and it's not clear if his work is used with or without his permission. The other whistleblower at least few days ago wasn't know, just the pseudonum "Alex".
All in all the story is likely out of the news cycle for a while. The likely motive was the funding associated to OPCWs ability to assign blame. These "news" started circulating just before the vote for IIT's funding. IIT is the part of OPCW that can assign blame.
https://eaworldview.com/2019/11/syri...mical-attacks/
From the few other things i mentioned such as US troops leaving parts of Syria these are some of the ripple effects...
https://eaworldview.com/2019/12/syri...-in-northeast/
...the Kurds are now a bit closer to Russia. The Kurds need a presence of human shields from any front Turkey respects, to exists. Otherwise they will get run over. Turkey isn't too fond of Kurds and they have around 2 million refugees from Syria they would like to return.
Oh and a link from the same source (for my convenience)...
https://eaworldview.com/2019/11/syri...lebanon-funds/
...the motive for a lot of Assad's actions. They are broke. Like really really broke. 100+ months of civil war and trade embargo since 2014 tends to hurt the finance side. I'm mentioning this just because one argument that's mentioned often is, that why would Assad use chemical weapons when he is winning. The thing is that he's not winning fast enough. He should have won 3 years ago to be barely solvent.
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