*** OFFICIAL SYRIA CONFLICT THREAD ***

[gimmick]

There's no known specifics since there wasn't that much left. This most of it from the report...

55. As described in paragraph 46 above, two objects of interest that were visible in photographs and videos of the crater were analysed by the Mechanism. These were the filler cap from a chemical munition and a deformed piece of metal protruding from deep within the crater.
56. According to information obtained by the Mechanism, the filler cap, with two closure plugs, is uniquely consistent with Syrian chemical aerial bombs. The Mechanism was provided with an assessment of the filler cap and with chemical analysis showing sarin and a reaction product of sarin with hexamine that can be formed only under very high heat. Information was also received that additional metal fragments collected from the crater might correspond to parts of Syrian aerial chemical munitions.
57. The two energetic-materials experts engaged by the Mechanism reported that the size and thickness of the metal piece protruding from the crater indicated that it had been the casing of an aerial bomb measuring between 300 and 500 mm in diameter.
58. The munition remnants recovered from the crater by unidentified individuals are assessed as being associated with an air-delivered chemical bomb. Specific munition remnants, particularly the tailfin, could not be recovered. The absence of a chain of custody relating to the munition remnants diminishes their probative value.

...khab-250 is something Israel reported. They are not a member of OPWC. I think it's them and NK that are the only ones. Would you like to link where you got this piece of information. It's the usual i don't know the propaganda you read/watch. Makes it kinda hard to refute that, don't you think?

I'd simply like to know what munition was used to create this hole in the ground. The KhAB-250 was considered the only logical weapon they "might" possess that was capable of being dropped from an Su-22
Also I'd like to add, that after the Syrian government said they have no munition that can be deployed from an Su-22 capable of causing this crater and gas release in their arsenal, it was then reported they dropped the munition from a helicopter. (which I believe was quickly disproved)
The only unquestionable facts we have to consider, is the USA was informed before an attack was made by the Syrian government on a weapons depot that very well might have contained CW's by several Su-22's that were reported in the area. The timeline on when this alleged attack occurred is several hours before this confirmed sortie. This was an area held at the time by the al-nusra front, and a large portion of the alleged evidence came from TWH's.

The standard to which you endorse your own variety of propaganda, is objectively different to the standard you apply to anything that disagrees with your position.
I don't know without doubt who did this! If I was to speculate, al-nusru would be my first choice. Simply based on the fact they're getting the shit kicked out of them on the battlefield... desperate men committing a desperate act.

Yea only idiots or people looking for strawmen thought khab-250 was the only logical munition. It was Su-22 pretty much the whole way. The random claim that Su-22 is incapable of dropping the munition in the ground or they Syrian don't have such munition were proven to be lies. Good job with the questionable facts though.

[gimmick]

Yea i need specifics. What questionable behaviour? List things you think they've done or what is suspicious.

I'll look this up tomorrow. Going to bed. Been up too long.

I'm not doing your homework for you.

Obviously you know how to use google, though with all due respect impartially assessing evidence does not appear to be your strong suit.

So i should just guess what things you believe? Or do i counter them all just for good measure because it's too hard for you to say what you find suspicious specifically? How fucking stupid are you? Don't waste my time cunt.

[gimmick]

Looking more in to this SOHR didn't actually report a gas attack, it was 2 other documentation groups. SNHR was the one i was thinking about. SOHR bit is still about friday though.

Can you not see this as a massive contradiction of the facts you've just presented?
Let's at least agree to call him That Bloke in Coventry.
Do we at the very least concur that he reported heavy shelling, that lead to folks suffocating in basements and underground tunnels?
Ridiculing me with your snide comment in regard to the concept of time, just makes you look like a massive cunt when you need to backtrack.

It isn't a contradiction. I'm not using SOHR as a source of proof for anything. Zerohedge is using it as a source of proof. Yes he reported heavy shelling on friday that lead to suffocation. Saturday was the day of alleged gas attack. The heavy shelling caused symptoms of suffocation to 70ish people on friday. The gas attack caused symptoms of suffocation to 500ish people on saturday. For the autists 70 and 500 are not exact numbers, but the scale is so far off that it's really hard to claim they are the describing the same event.

Once again Zerohedge is using SOHR as providing corroborating evidence to the "no gassing" claim. This is something normal people call as a lie. I doesn't matter if Zerohedge is lying because they are too stupid and lazy to do the bare minimum of work or because they are intentionally trying to mislead. Either way it's still a lie. This isn't hard. None of this is hard.

If this makes me look like a massive cunt, it's probably an accurate perception.

[Salty_Aus]

I'd simply like to know what munition was used to create this hole in the ground. The KhAB-250 was considered the only logical weapon they "might" possess that was capable of being dropped from an Su-22
Also I'd like to add, that after the Syrian government said they have no munition that can be deployed from an Su-22 capable of causing this crater and gas release in their arsenal, it was then reported they dropped the munition from a helicopter. (which I believe was quickly disproved)
The only unquestionable facts we have to consider, is the USA was informed before an attack was made by the Syrian government on a weapons depot that very well might have contained CW's by several Su-22's that were reported in the area. The timeline on when this alleged attack occurred is several hours before this confirmed sortie. This was an area held at the time by the al-nusra front, and a large portion of the alleged evidence came from TWH's.

The standard to which you endorse your own variety of propaganda, is objectively different to the standard you apply to anything that disagrees with your position.
I don't know without doubt who did this! If I was to speculate, al-nusru would be my first choice. Simply based on the fact they're getting the shit kicked out of them on the battlefield... desperate men committing a desperate act.

Yea only idiots or people looking for strawmen thought khab-250 was the only logical munition. It was Su-22 pretty much the whole way. The random claim that Su-22 is incapable of dropping the munition in the ground or they Syrian don't have such munition were proven to be lies. Good job with the questionable facts though.

Ascertaining what munition was used would certainly be a priority in determining what actually happened and by who.

You've clearly stated Assad did this, I'd simply like to know what munition he used, and evidence to support he has these weapons.

When folks start using legal jargon like more likely then not as proof, yet can't simply tell me what munition was used... I'm hesitant to buy what they're selling.

Furthermore this event took place after weapons inspectors stated he was compliant. Am I to believe it was an improvised munition?

[Salty_Aus]

I'm not doing your homework for you.

Obviously you know how to use google, though with all due respect impartially assessing evidence does not appear to be your strong suit.

So i should just guess what things you believe? Or do i counter them all just for good measure because it's too hard for you to say what you find suspicious specifically? How fucking stupid are you? Don't waste my time cunt.

I'm not wading through hundreds of reports to highlight what I feel might be valid.

Whatever TWH's report should not be considered fact and must be questioned... simple.

[Salty_Aus]

Can you not see this as a massive contradiction of the facts you've just presented?
Let's at least agree to call him That Bloke in Coventry.
Do we at the very least concur that he reported heavy shelling, that lead to folks suffocating in basements and underground tunnels?
Ridiculing me with your snide comment in regard to the concept of time, just makes you look like a massive cunt when you need to backtrack.

It isn't a contradiction. I'm not using SOHR as a source of proof for anything. Zerohedge is using it as a source of proof. Yes he reported heavy shelling on friday that lead to suffocation. Saturday was the day of alleged gas attack. The heavy shelling caused symptoms of suffocation to 70ish people on friday. The gas attack caused symptoms of suffocation to 500ish people on saturday. For the autists 70 and 500 are not exact numbers, but the scale is so far off that it's really hard to claim they are the describing the same event.

Once again Zerohedge is using SOHR as providing corroborating evidence to the "no gassing" claim. This is something normal people call as a lie. I doesn't matter if Zerohedge is lying because they are too stupid and lazy to do the bare minimum of work or because they are intentionally trying to mislead. Either way it's still a lie. This isn't hard. None of this is hard.

If this makes me look like a massive cunt, it's probably an accurate perception.

When you repeatedly say something as a basis to prove your point, and later recant this is a contradiction.

You repeated this untruth in an attempt to prove a timeline that would discredit Fisk.

[Salty_Aus]

Of course you're not a shill, Mr gimmick

Just another arrogant, abusive know it all. With a delicate ego that always must be right.

[LegallyNonBindingPosts]

Just checking in to get a expert recommendation for ending the civil war (conflict, troubles, fighting, we) in Syria.

[gimmick]

It isn't a contradiction. I'm not using SOHR as a source of proof for anything. Zerohedge is using it as a source of proof. Yes he reported heavy shelling on friday that lead to suffocation. Saturday was the day of alleged gas attack. The heavy shelling caused symptoms of suffocation to 70ish people on friday. The gas attack caused symptoms of suffocation to 500ish people on saturday. For the autists 70 and 500 are not exact numbers, but the scale is so far off that it's really hard to claim they are the describing the same event.

Once again Zerohedge is using SOHR as providing corroborating evidence to the "no gassing" claim. This is something normal people call as a lie. I doesn't matter if Zerohedge is lying because they are too stupid and lazy to do the bare minimum of work or because they are intentionally trying to mislead. Either way it's still a lie. This isn't hard. None of this is hard.

If this makes me look like a massive cunt, it's probably an accurate perception.

When you repeatedly say something as a basis to prove your point, and later recant this is a contradiction.

You repeated this untruth in an attempt to prove a timeline that would discredit Fisk.

Oh dear. SOHR reporting correctly about this has nothing to do with my point. You're using them to prove your point. Now i'm just checking, do you understand this?

SOHR's later claims have nothing to do with the timeline. But just to reiterate, friday is not saturday, friday and saturday are not the same thing and friday is not close enough to saturday.

That truth has nothing to do with discrediting Fisk. Fisk has never said anything i need to discredit. It appears you have no idea what Fisk has said about this matter. Just read the original Fisk article. It can't be that hard.

[gimmick]

Yea only idiots or people looking for strawmen thought khab-250 was the only logical munition. It was Su-22 pretty much the whole way. The random claim that Su-22 is incapable of dropping the munition in the ground or they Syrian don't have such munition were proven to be lies. Good job with the questionable facts though.

Ascertaining what munition was used would certainly be a priority in determining what actually happened and by who.

You've clearly stated Assad did this, I'd simply like to know what munition he used, and evidence to support he has these weapons.

When folks start using legal jargon like more likely then not as proof, yet can't simply tell me what munition was used... I'm hesitant to buy what they're selling.

Furthermore this event took place after weapons inspectors stated he was compliant. Am I to believe it was an improvised munition?

Yes and i told you pretty much everything that was known about the munition that was used.

I guess you would be interested in this bit, "According to information obtained by the Mechanism, the filler cap, with two closure plugs, is uniquely consistent with Syrian chemical aerial bombs. The Mechanism was provided with an assessment of the filler cap and with chemical analysis showing sarin and a reaction product of sarin with hexamine that can be formed only under very high heat. Information was also received that additional metal fragments collected from the crater might correspond to parts of Syrian aerial chemical munitions."

That's just a summary. The bits that prove the words in it are elsewhere.

I have not used more likely than not jargon as proof. But whatever. Nothing is 100% true. In all information there is a faith component.

After 2014 the highest estimates were that 96% of stockpile was confiscated. After that and before this incident there were indications that Assad had restarted the production of Sarin.

Apparently you can believe whatever you want. Clearly facts or logic have nothing to do with it. You can call it an improvised munition if that makes you happy. Likely by Western or Russian standards it would be. By developing worlds standards it's just basic factory made munition.

[Salty_Aus]

When you repeatedly say something as a basis to prove your point, and later recant this is a contradiction.

You repeated this untruth in an attempt to prove a timeline that would discredit Fisk.

Oh dear. SOHR reporting correctly about this has nothing to do with my point. You're using them to prove your point. Now i'm just checking, do you understand this?

SOHR's later claims have nothing to do with the timeline. But just to reiterate, friday is not saturday, friday and saturday are not the same thing and friday is not close enough to saturday.

That truth has nothing to do with discrediting Fisk. Fisk has never said anything i need to discredit. It appears you have no idea what Fisk has said about this matter. Just read the original Fisk article. It can't be that hard.

No, you retracted that the bloke from Coventry reported gas the next day.
You repeated at least twice that he reported gas the next day, then retracted this statement.
All this does is muddy the exact date and time SOHR reported heavy shelling that caused asphyxia. I have no desire to reference an event you acknowledge did not occur to establish your timeline of events.

[gimmick]

Of course you're not a shill, Mr gimmick

Just another arrogant, abusive know it all. With a delicate ego that always must be right.

Yup this really needed it's own post. But since were here i can provide additional proof that i must always be right. My ego is so delicate that i couldn't let you catch me saying something that wasn't true, i had to correct myself. So far in this thread i am the only one that have caught me saying something that isn't true. I'm just that fucking great and you're a muppet that couldn't find your tail if it was attached to you.

There, three of your points proven. Consider it a favor.

[gimmick]

Oh dear. SOHR reporting correctly about this has nothing to do with my point. You're using them to prove your point. Now i'm just checking, do you understand this?

SOHR's later claims have nothing to do with the timeline. But just to reiterate, friday is not saturday, friday and saturday are not the same thing and friday is not close enough to saturday.

That truth has nothing to do with discrediting Fisk. Fisk has never said anything i need to discredit. It appears you have no idea what Fisk has said about this matter. Just read the original Fisk article. It can't be that hard.

No, you retracted that the bloke from Coventry reported gas the next day.
You repeated at least twice that he reported gas the next day, then retracted this statement.
All this does is muddy the exact date and time SOHR reported heavy shelling that caused asphyxia. I have no desire to reference an event you acknowledge did not occur to establish your timeline of events.

Yea it literally has nothing to with it. This is the second time i quote what SOHR reported...

"Syrian Observatory for Human Rights monitored the rise of number of persons who were killed today, Friday, to 42 casualties"

...that is from the only link Zerohedge provides to SOHR. How muddy is that?

I never said they reported gas the next day.

[Salty_Aus]

Ascertaining what munition was used would certainly be a priority in determining what actually happened and by who.

You've clearly stated Assad did this, I'd simply like to know what munition he used, and evidence to support he has these weapons.

When folks start using legal jargon like more likely then not as proof, yet can't simply tell me what munition was used... I'm hesitant to buy what they're selling.

Furthermore this event took place after weapons inspectors stated he was compliant. Am I to believe it was an improvised munition?

Yes and i told you pretty much everything that was known about the munition that was used.

I guess you would be interested in this bit, "According to information obtained by the Mechanism, the filler cap, with two closure plugs, is uniquely consistent with Syrian chemical aerial bombs. The Mechanism was provided with an assessment of the filler cap and with chemical analysis showing sarin and a reaction product of sarin with hexamine that can be formed only under very high heat. Information was also received that additional metal fragments collected from the crater might correspond to parts of Syrian aerial chemical munitions."

That's just a summary. The bits that prove the words in it are elsewhere.

I have not used more likely than not jargon as proof. But whatever. Nothing is 100% true. In all information there is a faith component.

After 2014 the highest estimates were that 96% of stockpile was confiscated. After that and before this incident there were indications that Assad had restarted the production of Sarin.

Apparently you can believe whatever you want. Clearly facts or logic have nothing to do with it. You can call it an improvised munition if that makes you happy. Likely by Western or Russian standards it would be. By developing worlds standards it's just basic factory made munition.

I'm not the one stating it was Assad.
How can one prove someone did something yet not even be able to tell me what munition he used, plus supporting evidence in regard to this munition.
It's not a trick question you know.

[Salty_Aus]

No, you retracted that the bloke from Coventry reported gas the next day.
You repeated at least twice that he reported gas the next day, then retracted this statement.
All this does is muddy the exact date and time SOHR reported heavy shelling that caused asphyxia. I have no desire to reference an event you acknowledge did not occur to establish your timeline of events.

Yea it literally has nothing to with it. This is the second time i quote what SOHR reported...

"Syrian Observatory for Human Rights monitored the rise of number of persons who were killed today, Friday, to 42 casualties"

...that is from the only link Zerohedge provides to SOHR. How muddy is that?

I never said they reported gas the next day.

...as I said before SOHR reported gas on Saturday

[dwai]

Salty_Aus, keep it up, owning this shill faggot.

[Salty_Aus]

Of course you're not a shill, Mr gimmick

Just another arrogant, abusive know it all. With a delicate ego that always must be right.

Yup this really needed it's own post. But since were here i can provide additional proof that i must always be right. My ego is so delicate that i couldn't let you catch me saying something that wasn't true, i had to correct myself. So far in this thread i am the only one that have caught me saying something that isn't true. I'm just that fucking great and you're a muppet that couldn't find your tail if it was attached to you.

There, three of your points proven. Consider it a favor.

I gave up on ego battles over 30 years ago.

Came to a point in my life where I figured being proven wrong was way more valuable then proving I'm right.

Deep breaths mate, being wrong is not that bad.

Thanks for the favor.

[gimmick]

Yes and i told you pretty much everything that was known about the munition that was used.

I guess you would be interested in this bit, "According to information obtained by the Mechanism, the filler cap, with two closure plugs, is uniquely consistent with Syrian chemical aerial bombs. The Mechanism was provided with an assessment of the filler cap and with chemical analysis showing sarin and a reaction product of sarin with hexamine that can be formed only under very high heat. Information was also received that additional metal fragments collected from the crater might correspond to parts of Syrian aerial chemical munitions."

That's just a summary. The bits that prove the words in it are elsewhere.

I have not used more likely than not jargon as proof. But whatever. Nothing is 100% true. In all information there is a faith component.

After 2014 the highest estimates were that 96% of stockpile was confiscated. After that and before this incident there were indications that Assad had restarted the production of Sarin.

Apparently you can believe whatever you want. Clearly facts or logic have nothing to do with it. You can call it an improvised munition if that makes you happy. Likely by Western or Russian standards it would be. By developing worlds standards it's just basic factory made munition.

I'm not the one stating it was Assad.
How can one prove someone did something yet not even be able to tell me what munition he used, plus supporting evidence in regard to this munition.
It's not a trick question you know.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena...omment-page-1/

That's one take on it. M4000 was apparently the assignation. That one is after JIM report. I assume at the time they used the munitions that were confiscated in 2013-2014 for comparisons. They also used the composure of gas remnants. A specific by-product and hexamine were found that are consistent with the Syrian Sarin.

[gimmick]

Yea it literally has nothing to with it. This is the second time i quote what SOHR reported...

"Syrian Observatory for Human Rights monitored the rise of number of persons who were killed today, Friday, to 42 casualties"

...that is from the only link Zerohedge provides to SOHR. How muddy is that?

I never said they reported gas the next day.

...as I said before SOHR reported gas on Saturday

Yes on one occasion i said Saturday. That's not same as next day. I mean, if you want to concede that SOHR report is from Friday or about Friday, i'm fine with that. Because that's is what next day means in this context. It doesn't just mean Saturday.

http://www.syriahr.com/en/?p=88805

That's the article. This is what it's referring to...

"Syrian Observatory published hours ago that 11 people at least including 5 children had suffocated, after bombardment by a warplane on an area near the old cemetery at the northern outskirts of Douma city in the Eastern Ghouta"

...near the old cemetery bit is the one that matters. The gas incident's were near Sa’da bakery and near al-Shuhada Square. I understand that with your standards it's close enough to support your point, but it's a different day, location and number of affected people in vastly different scale. Is this possibly something you would like to acknowledge?

[Salty_Aus]

I'm not the one stating it was Assad.
How can one prove someone did something yet not even be able to tell me what munition he used, plus supporting evidence in regard to this munition.
It's not a trick question you know.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena...omment-page-1/

That's one take on it. M4000 was apparently the assignation. That one is after JIM report. I assume at the time they used the munitions that were confiscated in 2013-2014 for comparisons. They also used the composure of gas remnants. A specific by-product and hexamine were found that are consistent with the Syrian Sarin.

I trusted the link.

Some of the comments were entertaining.

This is another Soviet era bomb right?... for interest sake I'll research the M4000 later, maybe

Nothing in that article would come close to being considered proof.