Trump's attorney went to the worst lawschool in America.

[Dan Druff]

Cooley has a 53% first-time pass rate of the bar.

That's actually higher than I expected.

Anyone know what the national average is?

[Tellafriend]

Cooley has a 53% first-time pass rate of the bar.

That's actually higher than I expected.

Anyone know what the national average is?

There’s no such thing really as each state is different for different reasons. You should check how all of the schools in that particular state compare.

[Draymond]

Cooley has a 53% first-time pass rate of the bar.

That's actually higher than I expected.

Anyone know what the national average is?

There’s no such thing really as each state is different for different reasons. You should check how all of the schools in that particular state compare.

Correct, passing the bar is set by each state. It is incredibly difficult now. While there is no concerted effort to my knowledge, it's pretty common knowledge the industry got saturated and they are trying to limit new practicing lawyers into the space. So you can spend $200,000 at law school and not become certified because you fail the board. Sweet deal.

[hongkonger]

There’s no such thing really as each state is different for different reasons. You should check how all of the schools in that particular state compare.

Correct, passing the bar is set by each state. It is incredibly difficult now. While there is no concerted effort to my knowledge, it's pretty common knowledge the industry got saturated and they are trying to limit new practicing lawyers into the space. So you can spend $200,000 at law school and not become certified because you fail the board. Sweet deal.

It's not like before. You have to really think about what you're doing before you go to law school. The jobs that pay $150K right out of school are there, but only if you go to a top 15 school and make good grades when you're there. And you have to accept living at your job. Sleeping in one's office is common at Wall Street firms.

If you want to go for passion, not money, and you are content with a lower salary, the career can be quite rewarding. People go into public advocacy jobs, public defenders offices, prosecutors offices or sole practitioner jobs because they really like it. A practitioner in a small or solo firm can make very nice money after building up a roster of clients but they are often doing routine work. For any of these people, it's perfectly fine to go to your state university's law school and save a boatload of money.

[mulva]

It's not like before. You have to really think about what you're doing before you go to law school. The jobs that pay $150K right out of school are there, but only if you go to a top 15 school and make good grades when you're there. And you have to accept living at your job. Sleeping in one's office is common at Wall Street firms.

i don't know where wall street draws the line for schools (not jd's) they recruit from, but they actively recruit. you can bet american or cooley isn't on their list.

as for young lawyers, isn't the 60/70 hr work week the norm...

[Charham]

There’s no such thing really as each state is different for different reasons. You should check how all of the schools in that particular state compare.

Correct, passing the bar is set by each state. It is incredibly difficult now. While there is no concerted effort to my knowledge, it's pretty common knowledge the industry got saturated and they are trying to limit new practicing lawyers into the space. So you can spend $200,000 at law school and not become certified because you fail the board. Sweet deal.

Yes. And unless you graduate from a good school in the top of your class starting lawyer jobs are 50-60 k if you can find one.

[hutmaster]

I think people nowadays confuse great attorneys with what they see on TV. What you see on TV are personalities who practice law. Johnnie Cochran of OJ fame was probably the most celebrated in this space.

Most law is incredibly boring. I was accepted to law school in the 1990s, UNC was the highest pedigree law school I could get in, which by the way is fabulous and a top 50 school which requires a large LSAT score (which I had, I perhaps could have gotten into Vanderbilt and Duke if I had retaken the test like 5 times but I was not interested in pursuing law after careful consideration).

The problem with being a lawyer is you sit at your desk most days at a firm and look up case law to apply to whatever it is you are doing. This notion that you are going to court on high profile cases is just fiction. It's endless paperwork and terribly boring. A good friend of mine makes $300,000 a year as a corporate lawyer and dreads his job every week.

Trump's attorneys were nothing more than pals whom he like and were loyal. Nothing wrong with that. The best attorneys are never going to be buddies with you though.

TRUTH I was on the debate team in college. Most of my college debate friends are attorneys. About 50% love it and 50% hate it. I have a friend that did his undergrad at Harvard, went to law school at Berkely. While a law student he interned at Muenger, Tolles and Olson...a very prominent and selective firm. He hated every second of it. He finished law school, passed the bar and went into real estate development. He's never practiced law.

Conversely, another friend went to UCLA law, interned for Judge Kozinski on the 9th circuit, got a high paying position with O'Melveny & Myers upon graduation. He now has his own firm that specializes in Patent infringement and complex business litigation. It recently was recognized in the national legal news publication Law360 as one of the top 10 boutique practices in the U.S. that are "on par with the biggest firms" and "capable of competing with – and beating – the best big firms at the highest level." He loves practicing law.

[Draymond]

Correct, passing the bar is set by each state. It is incredibly difficult now. While there is no concerted effort to my knowledge, it's pretty common knowledge the industry got saturated and they are trying to limit new practicing lawyers into the space. So you can spend $200,000 at law school and not become certified because you fail the board. Sweet deal.

Yes. And unless you graduate from a good school in the top of your class starting lawyer jobs are 50-60 k if you can find one.

I know a lawyer who worked in corporate for three years making good money but hated the 14 hour days. So he and another lawyer at his company left and started their own firm. It lasted two years when they basically ran out of money. Each went back into the corporate world about a half million in debt.

I think a lot of 20 somethings get quickly disillusioned after graduating college and immediately think the answer is more school, so they go into law school by default. What they don't understand is just how saturated the market is with lawyers. Like I said, I know several people with law degrees from good schools that gave up on the career. I truly believe the reason law school applications spiked in the last 20 years was because of the success of Law & Order on TV, and high profile cases all over TV starting with OJ. 5 years later they are grinding 14 hours a day at a desk with some VP dumping more and more shit on their desk.

[Draymond]

I think people nowadays confuse great attorneys with what they see on TV. What you see on TV are personalities who practice law. Johnnie Cochran of OJ fame was probably the most celebrated in this space.

Most law is incredibly boring. I was accepted to law school in the 1990s, UNC was the highest pedigree law school I could get in, which by the way is fabulous and a top 50 school which requires a large LSAT score (which I had, I perhaps could have gotten into Vanderbilt and Duke if I had retaken the test like 5 times but I was not interested in pursuing law after careful consideration).

The problem with being a lawyer is you sit at your desk most days at a firm and look up case law to apply to whatever it is you are doing. This notion that you are going to court on high profile cases is just fiction. It's endless paperwork and terribly boring. A good friend of mine makes $300,000 a year as a corporate lawyer and dreads his job every week.

Trump's attorneys were nothing more than pals whom he like and were loyal. Nothing wrong with that. The best attorneys are never going to be buddies with you though.

TRUTH I was on the debate team in college. Most of my college debate friends are attorneys. About 50% love it and 50% hate it. I have a friend that did his undergrad at Harvard, went to law school at Berkely. While a law student he interned at Muenger, Tolles and Olson...a very prominent and selective firm. He hated every second of it. He finished law school, passed the bar and went into real estate development. He's never practiced law.

Yep. Years ago I was friends with a guy who graduated from University of Florida, a very good law school. He failed the bar the first time, and decided to wait a year before taking the bar again. In the interim he began selling real estate and sold like 25 homes his first year and like 40 the second year and we lost contact (about the time I discovered poker). This thread caused me to google him for the first time in years and he has his own realtor firm now with what looks like 50 agents working for him. LOL, I highly doubt he ever went back to pass the bar. I may send him an email, I dunno.

[Suicide King]

Even tho he went to a crap law school he still managed to pass the NY bar which is the second hardest bar to pass. The first being California which had a 46% pass rate in 2016 and 49% last year. My wife says it's a beast, and one of the most brutal experience in her life.

[thesidedish]

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SetofKs



whats taking so long??


LOL HOSEQ

[donkdowndonedied]

Cooley has a 53% first-time pass rate of the bar.

That's actually higher than I expected.

Anyone know what the national average is?

Look at their graduation rate. I bet 2/3s or more failed out before they got to the bar. If I remember right that was sort of how they did things. Give the lower classmen little support in hard classes or whatever so that most would fail out so that the school actually had room for their upper division. Like it appeared that failing people out was baked into their business.

[hutmaster]

Even tho he went to a crap law school he still managed to pass the NY bar which is the second hardest bar to pass. The first being California which had a 46% pass rate in 2016 and 49% last year. My wife says it's a beast, and one of the most brutal experience in her life.

An attorney I know told
Me that when he took the CA bar exam another guy taking it sat down opened the book, looked horrified, sweated profusely and never wrote any answers after about 30 minutes he closed the booklet and walked out.

[tigerpiper]

Bar passage rates are very state dependent. Big state lots of lawyers low pass rate- CA. Small state easy bar.
Trump's lawyers are crap, just like everyone else who works for him because he screws them all. Anyone with any other option would have taken it already.
Family excepted.

[Suicide King]

Even tho he went to a crap law school he still managed to pass the NY bar which is the second hardest bar to pass. The first being California which had a 46% pass rate in 2016 and 49% last year. My wife says it's a beast, and one of the most brutal experience in her life.

An attorney I know told
Me that when he took the CA bar exam another guy taking it sat down opened the book, looked horrified, sweated profusely and never wrote any answers after about 30 minutes he closed the booklet and walked out.

My wife told me about people having full blown panic attacks, and not uncommon to see someone sobbing in hallways.

[lol wow]

just a shoutout to the equally horrible conversation sk is having with his wife right this minute

[Suicide King]

just a shoutout to the equally horrible conversation sk is having with his wife right this minute

Sorry that your lady is a waitress at Denny's and you don't have any interesting stories to tell

[lol wow]

i only fuck ihop waitresses but nice try

[lol wow]

ANND MARRONE THE NEW POINT OF SALE SYS AT IHOP IS DRAMZ

[Suicide King]

i only fuck ihop waitresses but nice try