Latest police excessive force controversy: Tulare, CA

[MrTickle]

Come on Druff - “probably” overused force?! You should only use deadly force if there is an extremely high probablity of danger to someone else’s life. Nothing probably about it.

[devidee]

Damn Bernie...

[ErickAA]

The point you guys are missing is that as long as the guy is within reaching distance of the police officer he isn't unarmed, because the police officer has a gun, so they have to treat the situation accordingly. If I engage this guy in a fight and he wins, this is his gun, so for all intensive purposes he is armed.

So, if the police officers can't handle him physically without using their guns (which clearly appears to be the case) their options are basically to stay away and wait for more backup and hope nothing too bad happens while this is going on, or to shoot him. Saying the man shouldn't have been shot because he was unarmed is missing this crucial piece of reasoning.

If you want to argue the man didn't seem to be threatening anyone too much in the moment, so the police officers should have just stayed away and followed him from a distance until backup came that is fine. But as long as the police officers are engaging the man, and he is fighting back, they have to treat him as if he is armed, because their gun is in play.

[ErickAA]

Come on Druff - “probably” overused force?! You should only use deadly force if there is an extremely high probablity of danger to someone else’s life. Nothing probably about it.

If you are a police officer and a suspect overpowers you and grabs your baton and starts attacking you with it, you have to assume he will do the same thing if he gets his hands on your gun. So there is a super high probability of danger to someone else life, mainly your own.

Nothing probable about it.

[thesparten]

I've had a few negative incidents with police pulling me over during my lifetime, though all were in my 20s. In all cases, I just kept calm and de-escalated the situation.

The worst was in Riverside, CA, in a strip mall, where I accidentally cut off a cop.

He immediately pulled me over, and of course my first thought was, "Fuck, I'm getting a ticket."

Well, since Riverside was full of young druggies, he assumed I was one of them, given that I was 22-23 years old at the time, and he thought I was driving erratically to have cut him off. (In reality, I just didn't see him, partially because it was at night.)

He started yelling at me that he knew I was on drugs, that I needed to admit it to him right now, that he knew what a druggie looked like, etc. I kept repeating to him that I never do drugs, and that I simply didn't see him when I cut him off. He kept yelling at me that he knew the truth, and that he was getting pissed I was lying to him.

He then told me that he wanted to search my car for drugs. I could have told him no, but I figured I had nothing to hide, and wanted this overwith quickly, so I told him he could. To my surprise, he then cuffed me and sat me down on the curb, telling me the cuffs were for "both of our safeties".

He searched the car and found nothing, and suddenly it dawned on him that he fucked up, and was possibly going to face discipline for abusing an innocent kid over a minor traffic violation.

He took the cuffs off and, rather than apologize, said, "Well, I didn't find any drugs, but you better be careful while you're driving, or next time I'm really giving you that ticket!"

He stormed away.

In the heat of the moment, I actually thought I was fortunate to have avoided getting a ticket.

Then right after he was gone, I realized he didn't ticket me because he didn't want me complaining to his superiors. I should have gotten his name when this was over (even surreptitiously if I didn't want him to ticket me after asking), and then reported him. The guy was a complete prick, and totally overstepped his authority.

But never once did I consider escalating the situation or making it worse. I kept calm, kept assuring him repeatedly that I never do drugs, and also kept apologizing for having cut him off, even though I thought he was a complete asshole and didn't deserve any apologies.

The problem is that too many people these days believe that they have a right to fight the police if they aren't being treated in the manner they like, and they turn it into a pissing contest -- one which they will almost always lose.

I respect that the police have a very tough job to do, and they deal with the worst of the worst of society on a daily basis. I try to keep that in mind when dealing with them myself, even if at times certain bad-apple or over-stressed officers don't treat me the way they should. I figure that the least I can do as a citizen is to avoid escalating any problem, and then complain later if I feel the situation warrants it. And yes, I understand that these complaints often go nowhere, as police tend to protect one another, but that's still a better option than trying to fight and putting yourself in extreme danger.

If u said no to the search..

1. What do u think would have happened?

2. Would u say no to the search in the future?

[Dan Druff]

I've had a few negative incidents with police pulling me over during my lifetime, though all were in my 20s. In all cases, I just kept calm and de-escalated the situation.

The worst was in Riverside, CA, in a strip mall, where I accidentally cut off a cop.

He immediately pulled me over, and of course my first thought was, "Fuck, I'm getting a ticket."

Well, since Riverside was full of young druggies, he assumed I was one of them, given that I was 22-23 years old at the time, and he thought I was driving erratically to have cut him off. (In reality, I just didn't see him, partially because it was at night.)

He started yelling at me that he knew I was on drugs, that I needed to admit it to him right now, that he knew what a druggie looked like, etc. I kept repeating to him that I never do drugs, and that I simply didn't see him when I cut him off. He kept yelling at me that he knew the truth, and that he was getting pissed I was lying to him.

He then told me that he wanted to search my car for drugs. I could have told him no, but I figured I had nothing to hide, and wanted this overwith quickly, so I told him he could. To my surprise, he then cuffed me and sat me down on the curb, telling me the cuffs were for "both of our safeties".

He searched the car and found nothing, and suddenly it dawned on him that he fucked up, and was possibly going to face discipline for abusing an innocent kid over a minor traffic violation.

He took the cuffs off and, rather than apologize, said, "Well, I didn't find any drugs, but you better be careful while you're driving, or next time I'm really giving you that ticket!"

He stormed away.

In the heat of the moment, I actually thought I was fortunate to have avoided getting a ticket.

Then right after he was gone, I realized he didn't ticket me because he didn't want me complaining to his superiors. I should have gotten his name when this was over (even surreptitiously if I didn't want him to ticket me after asking), and then reported him. The guy was a complete prick, and totally overstepped his authority.

But never once did I consider escalating the situation or making it worse. I kept calm, kept assuring him repeatedly that I never do drugs, and also kept apologizing for having cut him off, even though I thought he was a complete asshole and didn't deserve any apologies.

The problem is that too many people these days believe that they have a right to fight the police if they aren't being treated in the manner they like, and they turn it into a pissing contest -- one which they will almost always lose.

I respect that the police have a very tough job to do, and they deal with the worst of the worst of society on a daily basis. I try to keep that in mind when dealing with them myself, even if at times certain bad-apple or over-stressed officers don't treat me the way they should. I figure that the least I can do as a citizen is to avoid escalating any problem, and then complain later if I feel the situation warrants it. And yes, I understand that these complaints often go nowhere, as police tend to protect one another, but that's still a better option than trying to fight and putting yourself in extreme danger.

If u said no to the search..

1. What do u think would have happened?

2. Would u say no to the search in the future?

I thought if I said no, I would have validated the idiot's suspicion, and he would have held me there while attempting to get a search warrant, or perhaps some other bullshit where he would demand I come down to the station for a drug test.

My basic thought was that I just wanted it to be over quickly, and knowing that there was nothing at all incriminating in my car, I thought consenting to the search would accomplish that.

And it did.

What would I do if this happened today? Not sure. Probably would be a little more assertive about it without escalating, basically stating that I don't ever do drugs, there's nothing to find, and that I'm glad to do any kind of cognitive test in front of him to prove I'm not high.

This dumbass was so hot under the collar about being cut off in the parking lot that he led himself to believe he was 100% sure I was on drugs (probably because of all of his encounters with young druggies in the area), and he really thought I was just a drugged-up driver trying to deny the truth. He was legitimately shocked when he found nothing in the car, and then it dawned on him that he fucked up.

[herbertstemple]

I like how Druff rationalizes the outright killing of mentally ill people if they get violent during one of their episodes. Reminds me of how Nazi Germany used to deal with people who didn’t comply with authority.

The Nazis were only able to do that once they confiscated every ones guns.

[MrTickle]

I like how Druff rationalizes the outright killing of mentally ill people if they get violent during one of their episodes. Reminds me of how Nazi Germany used to deal with people who didn’t comply with authority.

The Nazis were only able to do that once they confiscated every ones guns.

This never happened.

[hongkonger]

I've had a few negative incidents with police pulling me over during my lifetime, though all were in my 20s. In all cases, I just kept calm and de-escalated the situation.

The worst was in Riverside, CA, in a strip mall, where I accidentally cut off a cop.

He immediately pulled me over, and of course my first thought was, "Fuck, I'm getting a ticket."

Well, since Riverside was full of young druggies, he assumed I was one of them, given that I was 22-23 years old at the time, and he thought I was driving erratically to have cut him off. (In reality, I just didn't see him, partially because it was at night.)

He started yelling at me that he knew I was on drugs, that I needed to admit it to him right now, that he knew what a druggie looked like, etc. I kept repeating to him that I never do drugs, and that I simply didn't see him when I cut him off. He kept yelling at me that he knew the truth, and that he was getting pissed I was lying to him.

He then told me that he wanted to search my car for drugs. I could have told him no, but I figured I had nothing to hide, and wanted this overwith quickly, so I told him he could. To my surprise, he then cuffed me and sat me down on the curb, telling me the cuffs were for "both of our safeties".

He searched the car and found nothing, and suddenly it dawned on him that he fucked up, and was possibly going to face discipline for abusing an innocent kid over a minor traffic violation.

He took the cuffs off and, rather than apologize, said, "Well, I didn't find any drugs, but you better be careful while you're driving, or next time I'm really giving you that ticket!"

He stormed away.

In the heat of the moment, I actually thought I was fortunate to have avoided getting a ticket.

Then right after he was gone, I realized he didn't ticket me because he didn't want me complaining to his superiors. I should have gotten his name when this was over (even surreptitiously if I didn't want him to ticket me after asking), and then reported him. The guy was a complete prick, and totally overstepped his authority.

But never once did I consider escalating the situation or making it worse. I kept calm, kept assuring him repeatedly that I never do drugs, and also kept apologizing for having cut him off, even though I thought he was a complete asshole and didn't deserve any apologies.

The problem is that too many people these days believe that they have a right to fight the police if they aren't being treated in the manner they like, and they turn it into a pissing contest -- one which they will almost always lose.

I respect that the police have a very tough job to do, and they deal with the worst of the worst of society on a daily basis. I try to keep that in mind when dealing with them myself, even if at times certain bad-apple or over-stressed officers don't treat me the way they should. I figure that the least I can do as a citizen is to avoid escalating any problem, and then complain later if I feel the situation warrants it. And yes, I understand that these complaints often go nowhere, as police tend to protect one another, but that's still a better option than trying to fight and putting yourself in extreme danger.

The cop was a complete prick, but was not overstepping his authority. Thanks to your conservative "tough on crime" friends on the Suoreme Court, cops can usually thoroughly search your car without probable cause even during a routine traffic stop. The law of unintended consequences.

I don't know why the cop didn't ticket you, but it wasn't because he was afraid of you complaining. They get away with just about every crooked thing they do and have little reason to be afraid. Maybe you didn't technically do anything to violate the traffic laws.

[hongkonger]

I like how Druff rationalizes the outright killing of mentally ill people if they get violent during one of their episodes. Reminds me of how Nazi Germany used to deal with people who didn’t comply with authority.

The Nazis were only able to do that once they confiscated every ones guns.

You know that Easter bunny at the mall is just a guy in a suit, right?

[limitles]

I've had a few negative incidents with police pulling me over during my lifetime, though all were in my 20s. In all cases, I just kept calm and de-escalated the situation.

The worst was in Riverside, CA, in a strip mall, where I accidentally cut off a cop.

He immediately pulled me over, and of course my first thought was, "Fuck, I'm getting a ticket."

Well, since Riverside was full of young druggies, he assumed I was one of them, given that I was 22-23 years old at the time, and he thought I was driving erratically to have cut him off. (In reality, I just didn't see him, partially because it was at night.)

He started yelling at me that he knew I was on drugs, that I needed to admit it to him right now, that he knew what a druggie looked like, etc. I kept repeating to him that I never do drugs, and that I simply didn't see him when I cut him off. He kept yelling at me that he knew the truth, and that he was getting pissed I was lying to him.

He then told me that he wanted to search my car for drugs. I could have told him no, but I figured I had nothing to hide, and wanted this overwith quickly, so I told him he could. To my surprise, he then cuffed me and sat me down on the curb, telling me the cuffs were for "both of our safeties".

He searched the car and found nothing, and suddenly it dawned on him that he fucked up, and was possibly going to face discipline for abusing an innocent kid over a minor traffic violation.

He took the cuffs off and, rather than apologize, said, "Well, I didn't find any drugs, but you better be careful while you're driving, or next time I'm really giving you that ticket!"

He stormed away.

In the heat of the moment, I actually thought I was fortunate to have avoided getting a ticket.

Then right after he was gone, I realized he didn't ticket me because he didn't want me complaining to his superiors. I should have gotten his name when this was over (even surreptitiously if I didn't want him to ticket me after asking), and then reported him. The guy was a complete prick, and totally overstepped his authority.

But never once did I consider escalating the situation or making it worse. I kept calm, kept assuring him repeatedly that I never do drugs, and also kept apologizing for having cut him off, even though I thought he was a complete asshole and didn't deserve any apologies.

The problem is that too many people these days believe that they have a right to fight the police if they aren't being treated in the manner they like, and they turn it into a pissing contest -- one which they will almost always lose.

I respect that the police have a very tough job to do, and they deal with the worst of the worst of society on a daily basis. I try to keep that in mind when dealing with them myself, even if at times certain bad-apple or over-stressed officers don't treat me the way they should. I figure that the least I can do as a citizen is to avoid escalating any problem, and then complain later if I feel the situation warrants it. And yes, I understand that these complaints often go nowhere, as police tend to protect one another, but that's still a better option than trying to fight and putting yourself in extreme danger.

If ever a post screamed out "bullshit" this is the one. "Since Riverside was full of druggies he assumed I was one of them" No, you don't know what he was thinking.
You were alone in the car. Very little threat and no evidence of joyriding with your drug addled buddies.
Ergo, "he started yelling at me that he knew I was on drugs" Fabrication. Even if you were blatantly blind drunk peace officers do not jeopardize their position by inappropriate behaviour. They've got you, no need for acting.
Also, there aren't many drugs, minus alcohol where you become a wild maniac who needs lecturing from an angry cop
I call severe bullshit on this post.

[ErickAA]

I've had a few negative incidents with police pulling me over during my lifetime, though all were in my 20s. In all cases, I just kept calm and de-escalated the situation.

The worst was in Riverside, CA, in a strip mall, where I accidentally cut off a cop.

He immediately pulled me over, and of course my first thought was, "Fuck, I'm getting a ticket."

Well, since Riverside was full of young druggies, he assumed I was one of them, given that I was 22-23 years old at the time, and he thought I was driving erratically to have cut him off. (In reality, I just didn't see him, partially because it was at night.)

He started yelling at me that he knew I was on drugs, that I needed to admit it to him right now, that he knew what a druggie looked like, etc. I kept repeating to him that I never do drugs, and that I simply didn't see him when I cut him off. He kept yelling at me that he knew the truth, and that he was getting pissed I was lying to him.

He then told me that he wanted to search my car for drugs. I could have told him no, but I figured I had nothing to hide, and wanted this overwith quickly, so I told him he could. To my surprise, he then cuffed me and sat me down on the curb, telling me the cuffs were for "both of our safeties".

He searched the car and found nothing, and suddenly it dawned on him that he fucked up, and was possibly going to face discipline for abusing an innocent kid over a minor traffic violation.

He took the cuffs off and, rather than apologize, said, "Well, I didn't find any drugs, but you better be careful while you're driving, or next time I'm really giving you that ticket!"

He stormed away.

In the heat of the moment, I actually thought I was fortunate to have avoided getting a ticket.

Then right after he was gone, I realized he didn't ticket me because he didn't want me complaining to his superiors. I should have gotten his name when this was over (even surreptitiously if I didn't want him to ticket me after asking), and then reported him. The guy was a complete prick, and totally overstepped his authority.

But never once did I consider escalating the situation or making it worse. I kept calm, kept assuring him repeatedly that I never do drugs, and also kept apologizing for having cut him off, even though I thought he was a complete asshole and didn't deserve any apologies.

The problem is that too many people these days believe that they have a right to fight the police if they aren't being treated in the manner they like, and they turn it into a pissing contest -- one which they will almost always lose.

I respect that the police have a very tough job to do, and they deal with the worst of the worst of society on a daily basis. I try to keep that in mind when dealing with them myself, even if at times certain bad-apple or over-stressed officers don't treat me the way they should. I figure that the least I can do as a citizen is to avoid escalating any problem, and then complain later if I feel the situation warrants it. And yes, I understand that these complaints often go nowhere, as police tend to protect one another, but that's still a better option than trying to fight and putting yourself in extreme danger.

If ever a post screamed out "bullshit" this is the one. "Since Riverside was full of druggies he assumed I was one of them" No, you don't know what he was thinking.
You were alone in the car. Very little threat and no evidence of joyriding with your drug addled buddies.
Ergo, "he started yelling at me that he knew I was on drugs" Fabrication. Even if you were blatantly blind drunk peace officers do not jeopardize their position by inappropriate behaviour. They've got you, no need for acting.
Also, there aren't many drugs, minus alcohol where you become a wild maniac who needs lecturing from an angry cop
I call severe bullshit on this post.

Nah. The cop wasn't interested in writing a parking ticket. He was interested in searching Druff's car looking for drugs. Druff cutting him off was just pretense to give him an excuse to search the car. He found nothing, so he let Druff go. Nothing really more to this story.

Except if Druff was black he would have escalated the situation and ended up in jail probably. I don't really think police target blacks more than whites. Or if they do it is minor. I think a much bigger part of the issue is that most white guys when they get pulled over just comply, and black people tend to escalate the situation. I actually think this explains a lot of why blacks get charged for way more shit, and have way more negative interactions with police.

[ErickAA]

I've had a few negative incidents with police pulling me over during my lifetime, though all were in my 20s. In all cases, I just kept calm and de-escalated the situation.

The worst was in Riverside, CA, in a strip mall, where I accidentally cut off a cop.

He immediately pulled me over, and of course my first thought was, "Fuck, I'm getting a ticket."

Well, since Riverside was full of young druggies, he assumed I was one of them, given that I was 22-23 years old at the time, and he thought I was driving erratically to have cut him off. (In reality, I just didn't see him, partially because it was at night.)

He started yelling at me that he knew I was on drugs, that I needed to admit it to him right now, that he knew what a druggie looked like, etc. I kept repeating to him that I never do drugs, and that I simply didn't see him when I cut him off. He kept yelling at me that he knew the truth, and that he was getting pissed I was lying to him.

He then told me that he wanted to search my car for drugs. I could have told him no, but I figured I had nothing to hide, and wanted this overwith quickly, so I told him he could. To my surprise, he then cuffed me and sat me down on the curb, telling me the cuffs were for "both of our safeties".

He searched the car and found nothing, and suddenly it dawned on him that he fucked up, and was possibly going to face discipline for abusing an innocent kid over a minor traffic violation.

He took the cuffs off and, rather than apologize, said, "Well, I didn't find any drugs, but you better be careful while you're driving, or next time I'm really giving you that ticket!"

He stormed away.

In the heat of the moment, I actually thought I was fortunate to have avoided getting a ticket.

Then right after he was gone, I realized he didn't ticket me because he didn't want me complaining to his superiors. I should have gotten his name when this was over (even surreptitiously if I didn't want him to ticket me after asking), and then reported him. The guy was a complete prick, and totally overstepped his authority.

But never once did I consider escalating the situation or making it worse. I kept calm, kept assuring him repeatedly that I never do drugs, and also kept apologizing for having cut him off, even though I thought he was a complete asshole and didn't deserve any apologies.

The problem is that too many people these days believe that they have a right to fight the police if they aren't being treated in the manner they like, and they turn it into a pissing contest -- one which they will almost always lose.

I respect that the police have a very tough job to do, and they deal with the worst of the worst of society on a daily basis. I try to keep that in mind when dealing with them myself, even if at times certain bad-apple or over-stressed officers don't treat me the way they should. I figure that the least I can do as a citizen is to avoid escalating any problem, and then complain later if I feel the situation warrants it. And yes, I understand that these complaints often go nowhere, as police tend to protect one another, but that's still a better option than trying to fight and putting yourself in extreme danger.

If ever a post screamed out "bullshit" this is the one. "Since Riverside was full of druggies he assumed I was one of them" No, you don't know what he was thinking.
You were alone in the car. Very little threat and no evidence of joyriding with your drug addled buddies.
Ergo, "he started yelling at me that he knew I was on drugs" Fabrication. Even if you were blatantly blind drunk peace officers do not jeopardize their position by inappropriate behaviour. They've got you, no need for acting.
Also, there aren't many drugs, minus alcohol where you become a wild maniac who needs lecturing from an angry cop
I call severe bullshit on this post.

Nah. I don't know exactly when this happened but Riverside is basically the per capita meth capital of the world, especially when Druff was a young adult in the late 90s-early 2000s. I am sure the officer thought there was a reasonable chance he was gonna find some meth and that is why he pulled Druff over.

[herbertstemple]

The Nazis were only able to do that once they confiscated every ones guns.

This never happened.

Maybe it was the Marxists in Commie Russia. I get these murderous regimes mixed up sometimes. Maybe it was both.

Nice to see we have people sticking up for the Nazis here.

[donkdowndonedied]

Come on Druff - “probably” overused force?! You should only use deadly force if there is an extremely high probablity of danger to someone else’s life. Nothing probably about it.

If you are a police officer and a suspect overpowers you and grabs your baton and starts attacking you with it, you have to assume he will do the same thing if he gets his hands on your gun. So there is a super high probability of danger to someone else life, mainly your own.

Nothing probable about it.

The batons are given to police to use. I don't know why Druff thinks the guy being in possession of a baton changes much. This should open up a new avenue of discussion, infact. If batons are that dangerous then why do cops carry them around to use on citizens?

Dude was swinging at the cops. They can shoot him all day. He is a stupid shit and good riddance. I agree with you 100% Verm.

It is one thing resisting arrest, trying to get away. When you actively swing at a police office, fuck that. Punches knock people out cold all the time and can lead to very serious injuries, including death.

I am big into police accountability and often watch these videos to see how bad it is. This wouldn't even be worth posting/watching by my standards. Cops do worse constantly. Call them out on that, not this.

[donkdowndonedied]

If ever a post screamed out "bullshit" this is the one. "Since Riverside was full of druggies he assumed I was one of them" No, you don't know what he was thinking.
You were alone in the car. Very little threat and no evidence of joyriding with your drug addled buddies.
Ergo, "he started yelling at me that he knew I was on drugs" Fabrication. Even if you were blatantly blind drunk peace officers do not jeopardize their position by inappropriate behaviour. They've got you, no need for acting.
Also, there aren't many drugs, minus alcohol where you become a wild maniac who needs lecturing from an angry cop
I call severe bullshit on this post.

Nah. The cop wasn't interested in writing a parking ticket. He was interested in searching Druff's car looking for drugs. Druff cutting him off was just pretense to give him an excuse to search the car. He found nothing, so he let Druff go. Nothing really more to this story.

Except if Druff was black he would have escalated the situation and ended up in jail probably. I don't really think police target blacks more than whites. Or if they do it is minor. I think a much bigger part of the issue is that most white guys when they get pulled over just comply, and black people tend to escalate the situation. I actually think this explains a lot of why blacks get charged for way more shit, and have way more negative interactions with police.

You say one reasonable thing then something totally retarded. You think most black men when searched "escalate" things to the point where they're "probably" arrested???

[ErickAA]

Nah. The cop wasn't interested in writing a parking ticket. He was interested in searching Druff's car looking for drugs. Druff cutting him off was just pretense to give him an excuse to search the car. He found nothing, so he let Druff go. Nothing really more to this story.

Except if Druff was black he would have escalated the situation and ended up in jail probably. I don't really think police target blacks more than whites. Or if they do it is minor. I think a much bigger part of the issue is that most white guys when they get pulled over just comply, and black people tend to escalate the situation. I actually think this explains a lot of why blacks get charged for way more shit, and have way more negative interactions with police.

You say one reasonable thing then something totally retarded. You think most black men when searched "escalate" things to the point where they're "probably" arrested???

Probably Not most. But a much higher %. And I think that explains A LOT of how outcomes vary between different groups as far as interactions with police go. A lot of police officers are just asshole bullies taking out their anger with the world on you. If a police officer pulls you over and is being an asshole the +EV move is always just to suck it up, take it, and move on with your life. If things really cross the line, wait until the situation is over, then get an attorney and pursue your rights later when your not being confronted by an asshole with a gun in a high leverage situation.

Not saying it is right or fair. It just is what it is.

[MumblesBadly]

I've had a few negative incidents with police pulling me over during my lifetime, though all were in my 20s. In all cases, I just kept calm and de-escalated the situation.

The worst was in Riverside, CA, in a strip mall, where I accidentally cut off a cop.

He immediately pulled me over, and of course my first thought was, "Fuck, I'm getting a ticket."

Well, since Riverside was full of young druggies, he assumed I was one of them, given that I was 22-23 years old at the time, and he thought I was driving erratically to have cut him off. (In reality, I just didn't see him, partially because it was at night.)

He started yelling at me that he knew I was on drugs, that I needed to admit it to him right now, that he knew what a druggie looked like, etc. I kept repeating to him that I never do drugs, and that I simply didn't see him when I cut him off. He kept yelling at me that he knew the truth, and that he was getting pissed I was lying to him.

He then told me that he wanted to search my car for drugs. I could have told him no, but I figured I had nothing to hide, and wanted this overwith quickly, so I told him he could. To my surprise, he then cuffed me and sat me down on the curb, telling me the cuffs were for "both of our safeties".

He searched the car and found nothing, and suddenly it dawned on him that he fucked up, and was possibly going to face discipline for abusing an innocent kid over a minor traffic violation.

He took the cuffs off and, rather than apologize, said, "Well, I didn't find any drugs, but you better be careful while you're driving, or next time I'm really giving you that ticket!"

He stormed away.

In the heat of the moment, I actually thought I was fortunate to have avoided getting a ticket.

Then right after he was gone, I realized he didn't ticket me because he didn't want me complaining to his superiors. I should have gotten his name when this was over (even surreptitiously if I didn't want him to ticket me after asking), and then reported him. The guy was a complete prick, and totally overstepped his authority.

But never once did I consider escalating the situation or making it worse. I kept calm, kept assuring him repeatedly that I never do drugs, and also kept apologizing for having cut him off, even though I thought he was a complete asshole and didn't deserve any apologies.

The problem is that too many people these days believe that they have a right to fight the police if they aren't being treated in the manner they like, and they turn it into a pissing contest -- one which they will almost always lose.

I respect that the police have a very tough job to do, and they deal with the worst of the worst of society on a daily basis. I try to keep that in mind when dealing with them myself, even if at times certain bad-apple or over-stressed officers don't treat me the way they should. I figure that the least I can do as a citizen is to avoid escalating any problem, and then complain later if I feel the situation warrants it. And yes, I understand that these complaints often go nowhere, as police tend to protect one another, but that's still a better option than trying to fight and putting yourself in extreme danger.

Druff, the problem with your prescription here is that unlike the random black male, you, as a lily white cleancut guy, have had only *a few* bad experiences with police, and your white friends and family also. Which means that your frustration level of dealing with the police is relatively low versus the typical black guy. Hell! Philando Castille was stopped by the police over 40 times in the two years before he wa shot by that trigger happy yahoo suburban cop at that traffic stop. Collectively, you and everyone in your immediate family likely haven’t been stopped by police that much over your lifetimes to date!

Seriously, dude. Take over your lily-white blinders.

[anonamoose]

I was in Seoul other day watching three cops nab a guy for drunk driving. The guy keep trying to break into their car and they just stood there filming him laughing. Guy was totally out of it. Reached for their pepper spray a few times they just backed up and laughed at him. He kept getting in their face yelling and one made the peace sign and smiled. Eventually the tow truck arrived, took his car, handed the guy the receipt, cops put him in cuffs and put him in the car.

Non lethal force from belligerent people should never be met with lethal force. Guy learned a lesson that night without losing his life like he would in the US.