Druff.....do your PFA duty and bring down the whole online poker industry

[Deal]

You guys must not watch Deal very closely.

A very high percentage of all of his messages over the past few years are trolling me, including the one I responded to.

I don't know whether he sent me those hands like he claimed. It's possible he did and I forgot about them, but that's not the issue here. He also wrote that I was no longer playing poker in the 2008-2011 era (false), and that instead I was spending all of my time taking credit for others' work in busting the AP/UB scandals (also false).

You really want us to believe you have selective autism? You remember what you ate and what you paid for it, along with how much you tipped, and how many yards a car jockey drove your car for every occasion you left your house over the last 30 years but you don't remember owing me money and you don't remember our back and forth conversation about BJ on UB?

Your whole schtick is to take other peoples observations and investigations and presenting them as your own so many times that you end up believing they were the result of your own work. 11grover and hhaley J and noah from p4 crazymarco, etc all had way more involvement in uncovering what the poker public crowd uncovered. You took credit from re-communicating their investigations. That's not up for debate.

Your selective memory is amazing. The details you can pull up from stories of years gone past and then the total blank spots should be discussed with your dr. But that won't happen because he might overbill you.

[Dan Druff]

You guys must not watch Deal very closely.

A very high percentage of all of his messages over the past few years are trolling me, including the one I responded to.

I don't know whether he sent me those hands like he claimed. It's possible he did and I forgot about them, but that's not the issue here. He also wrote that I was no longer playing poker in the 2008-2011 era (false), and that instead I was spending all of my time taking credit for others' work in busting the AP/UB scandals (also false).

You really want us to believe you have selective autism? You remember what you ate and what you paid for it, along with how much you tipped, and how many yards a car jockey drove your car for every occasion you left your house over the last 30 years but you don't remember owing me money and you don't remember our back and forth conversation about BJ on UB?

Your whole schtick is to take other peoples observations and investigations and presenting them as your own so many times that you end up believing they were the result of your own work. 11grover and hhaley J and noah from p4 crazymarco, etc all had way more involvement in uncovering what the poker public crowd uncovered. You took credit from re-communicating their investigations. That's not up for debate.

Your selective memory is amazing. The details you can pull up from stories of years gone past and then the total blank spots should be discussed with your dr. But that won't happen because he might overbill you.

You're absolutely full of shit and don't know what you're talking about.

I get PMs and e-mails from rigtards all the time, most of whom supposedly have clear and convincing "evidence", but never amount to much. So excuse me if I didn't drop everything and dedicate myself to analyzing your claims.

You have no clue regarding what you're talking about with the AP/UB scandals. Crazymarco's only role was being super-obviously cheated in that POTRIPPER tournament, then complaining to AP and inexplicably receiving a full list of all holecards in the tourney, which he then forwarded to Nat Arem, who deciphered it all and realized he had the smoking gun proof. Important stuff for sure, and it was a fortunate moment which removed all doubt about the AP superusing claims, but that all happened after it had been going on awhile. Nat Arem was actually huge in investigating the AP stuff, but Crazymarco was just the victim of POTRIPPER who happened to get a big ball of proof dropped in his lap. So you really are just talking out of your ass when trying to name drop.

The original discovery of the AP cheating was made by me and 2 other high limit LHE players, after we noticed GRAYCAT's nonsensical play and winrates. I was the first to post about a "superuser" on 2+2 (look it up), and was one of the main people investigating it in the early-middle stages, prior to it being broken open with the POTRIPPER tournament. I even uncovered stupid things like "Popcorngate" while doing so (the story where AP was stealing charity money they raised by selling popcorn at the WSOP), due to the various insider contacts I made at AP while investigating the whole thing. Speaking of Haley, she wrote a book (never released) about the AP stuff, and detailed in the book my involvement in the early/middle stages (including acknowledging that I was the first to refer to it as a 'superuser'). Regarding anything discovered by others, I always gave credit where it was due, and never claimed to have discovered anything that others actually did.

Regarding UB, I was the first to put out Russ Hamilton's involvement -- and not just the first to post it. No one was looking at Russ yet when I posted that article on NWP. You can ask Dustin (or even Micon), as Dustin received a super-angry voicemail from Hamilton after I posted the article, demanding to talk to me, and threatening all kinds of legal action. Again, this wasn't a guess or repetition of others investigating, but rather a result of hard work to establish insider contacts at UB who trusted me enough to feed me info.

Oh, and hilarious that you are still bitter about the $40 which I've offered to pay you countless times, but you refuse to accept so you can keep bitching about it.

I'll be honest here, while I often cite you as an example of someone who constantly trolls me but I never ban/restrict, I've had enough.

You contribute almost nothing here besides trolling of me, and recently you've graduated to falsely accusing me of stealing freeroll money to actually run the site at a profit (and not in a joking way).

Your value to this forum is just about zero. Wasn't always that way, but it has been for a long time.

People here are very much allowed to question and criticize me, but when almost all of their posts contain trolling and nasty false accusations, it's time to send them packing. I'm sure you can figure out how to get a hold of me if you wish to discuss this further.

Until then...



... and go find some other dude to obsess over.

[mulva]

wtf just happened here?....really? i dont know the backstory or any contsant trlalalaloling between deal and you. but i do know you have selective something. you read shit and only respond to stuff that involves you and ignore other whether it's important or not.

so now you've banned deal because if this exchange in this thread? wtf? he offered some pretty damming points to online poker shops/gambling and you went full jewdonk on him.


congrat's, you've made yourself the kevin bacon of the poker world in the eyes of 100 limp dicks in our little shithouse

[Dan Druff]

wtf just happened here?....really? i dont know the backstory or any contsant trlalalaloling between deal and you. but i do know you have selective something. you read shit and only respond to stuff that involves you and ignore other whether it's important or not.

so now you've banned deal because if this exchange in this thread? wtf? he offered some pretty damming points to online poker shops/gambling and you went full jewdonk on him.


congrat's, you've made yourself the kevin bacon of the poker world in the eyes of 100 limp dicks in our little shithouse

If you can't understand the trolling he was doing in this thread (and pretty much every other post he's made to me over the past few years), I don't know what to tell you.

I'm mildly interested in his UB blackjack shuffle story, but that site is long gone, and it's not worth keeping him around just so he can keep jerking his dick about how he rolled them for $30k. Congrats, I guess.

I banned him because all he does here for the past few years is troll me, and recently it's escalated to false accusations of theft and lies-stated-as-fact that I stole others' work on the AP/UB stuff.

[Dan Druff]

yes, you heard me. devote a whole radio show on the programming of cards, outcomes, and other associated things that goes into online poker.

get a fucking straight up scientific math/computing person that lives for numbers. i want to hear him say that anything is possible and it can go undetected and still manipulate cetain outcomes using advanced math concepts.

get a card programming person that can validate and worked at one of these online shops doing the deeds. detailing how how you can customize outcomes through triggers, shifts, and exceptions.

really, just break down the possible angles to potentially rape all players while still flying under the legal radar. having a third party validate an RNG is not the only tell all. this means nothing to me. what means everything is having an open source code for everyone to see.

And I'll give you your answer.

It's very difficult to prove online poker is "rigged" due to the difficulty in obtaining mass numbers of hand histories, plus the natural high variance which occurs in poker.

Of course it COULD be rigged. It's possible, and if it's done correctly, it would be very hard to tell the difference between that and variance without a huge data sample -- which we don't have.

There's also so much apathy about online poker these days that most people would engage in a collective yawn, even if I did prove it somehow.

[mulva]

I'm mildly interested in his UB blackjack shuffle story, but that site is long gone, and it's not worth keeping him around just so he can keep jerking his dick about how he rolled them for $30k. Congrats, I guess.

if you're serious about any wrong doings involving the legitimateness of online gaming and poker this needs to be addressed. what doesn't matter is your petty bs phrasing things like this.

[Dan Druff]

I'm mildly interested in his UB blackjack shuffle story, but that site is long gone, and it's not worth keeping him around just so he can keep jerking his dick about how he rolled them for $30k. Congrats, I guess.

if you're serious about any wrong doings involving the legitimateness of online gaming and poker this needs to be addressed. what doesn't matter is your petty bs phrasing things like this.

Huh?

UB engaged in nothing but wrongdoing.

They looked at everyone's hole cards while played against their own customers, crushing them. Then they tried to cover it all up and underpay everyone when caught. Then they stole all the money on deposit years later.

What would this blackjack story mean, other than some lulz about how incompetent they also were?

[mulva]

if you're serious about any wrong doings involving the legitimateness of online gaming and poker this needs to be addressed. what doesn't matter is your petty bs phrasing things like this.

Huh?

UB engaged in nothing but wrongdoing.

They looked at everyone's hole cards while played against their own customers, crushing them. Then they tried to cover it all up and underpay everyone when caught. Then they stole all the money on deposit years later.

What would this blackjack story mean, other than some lulz about how incompetent they also were?

deal's story is very relavant. it' more relavant than amanda lettermans fucking twitter. what's not cool is paint deal as the bad guy "rolling" them because of your stupid beef with him

it's the use of patterns. deal said they used the same deck in poker. i guess you missed that

[mulva]

yes, you heard me. devote a whole radio show on the programming of cards, outcomes, and other associated things that goes into online poker.

get a fucking straight up scientific math/computing person that lives for numbers. i want to hear him say that anything is possible and it can go undetected and still manipulate cetain outcomes using advanced math concepts.

get a card programming person that can validate and worked at one of these online shops doing the deeds. detailing how how you can customize outcomes through triggers, shifts, and exceptions.

really, just break down the possible angles to potentially rape all players while still flying under the legal radar. having a third party validate an RNG is not the only tell all. this means nothing to me. what means everything is having an open source code for everyone to see.

And I'll give you your answer.

It's very difficult to prove online poker is "rigged" due to the difficulty in obtaining mass numbers of hand histories, plus the natural high variance which occurs in poker.

Of course it COULD be rigged. It's possible, and if it's done correctly, it would be very hard to tell the difference between that and variance without a huge data sample -- which we don't have.

There's also so much apathy about online poker these days that most people would engage in a collective yawn, even if I did prove it somehow.

c'mon...what kind of a defeatest attitude is this. nobody has even broached the possibility of online poker shadiness like this. really,..how difficult would it be to do an "in search of" type radio show engaging on the possibility of this.

everybody wants to hear from a programmer from an online poker shop. and at the very least you'll also have some math dork entertain us with his non humor.

and if you an get any validation to any of the possible deeds,,,,,it would be bigger than anything thus far

[varys]

Druff this is such a ridiculously bad ban. There are so many posters that are unreadable. Grow some thicker fucking skin and unban the guy.

[The_Lurker]

Druff this is such a ridiculously bad ban. There are so many posters that are unreadable. Grow some thicker fucking skin and unban the guy.

[simpdog]

While Deal does troll Druff relentlessly, I also agree this was a weak ban.

Druff are you that insecure about the whole UB/AP?

Everyone here knows you did have a role throughout it. We have heard it 8692 times since then

[Dan Druff]

Druff this is such a ridiculously bad ban. There are so many posters that are unreadable. Grow some thicker fucking skin and unban the guy.

While Deal does troll Druff relentlessly, I also agree this was a weak ban.

Druff are you that insecure about the whole UB/AP?

Everyone here knows you did have a role throughout it. We have heard it 8692 times since then

Please go search Deal's posts over the past 2-3 years, and examine what how many were trolling me. Aside from his frequent Trump-bashing (which is fine), the rest of his existence here was basically centered around trolling me.

He wasn't banned simply for questioning my role in AP/UB.

I can safely say that if either of you posted exactly what Deal did in this thread, I wouldn't have even considered banning you.

It was a cumulative effect of his pointless trolling of me for years, with little other content besides the Trump stuff.

Furthermore, his trolling evolved from garden variety insults to serious attempts to make me look bad with false statements. In the past week alone, he stated (seriously not jokingly) both that I steal money from the freerolls and that I stole others' work on the UB scandal and presented it as my own. Yes, I realize that longtime regular users here will know that neither is true, but Deal writes this stuff with enough conviction to where the average user here will read it and wonder.

Bottom line is that I will not let anyone use this forum whose main purpose here is to bash or spread lies about me.

So that's why Deal was banned.

The only way he will be unbanned is if he e-mails me and promises to knock it off going forward. Not looking for apologies, but I finally got tired of his BS.

[varys]

Yeah you always say shit like “go search x’s posts”...obviously no one cares enough to do that druff.

Just admit you got butt hurt and had a weak moment resulting in a bad, heavy handed decision and move on from it.

His trolling isnt anywhere near where fluffers and tydes are. Letting tyde fuck up countless pages of the trump thread yet banning one of the more intelligent posters because he hurt your feelings too many times is awful for content on a site already featuring fps russia.

[Dan Druff]

Yeah you always say shit like “go search x’s posts”...obviously no one cares enough to do that druff.

Just admit you got butt hurt and had a weak moment resulting in a bad, heavy handed decision and move on from it.

His trolling isnt anywhere near where fluffers and tydes are. Letting tyde fuck up countless pages of the trump thread yet banning one of the more intelligent posters because he hurt your feelings too many times is awful for content on a site already featuring fps russia.

Surely you can't be making the case that I'm giving Pockles some form of favortism. He's been trolling me constantly over the past few days and I'm considering banning him, as well.

It was not a heavy-handed or bad decision. The guy has been dedicating a healthy percentage of his posts in the past few YEARS to trolling me, and recently he's upped his troll game to making serious (and false) accusations that I'm a thief and a liar.

Were these isolated incidents, I would be annoyed but not ban him. However, it's clear that one of his main purposes here is to both harm my reputation and make me upset, and I don't want that sort of person here.

For example, I see you criticize me plenty, yet I've never once considered banning you. I know your negative messages are simply legitimate criticism, and not because you're trying to make me look bad or piss me off.

I don't mind when the users here try to have a laugh at my expense, but anyone whose longstanding purpose here is to make this forum not fun for me is someone who is going to be removed.

I'm far more tolerant of trolling against me than any other forum owner I've never known, so accusations of heavy hands here are not warranted.

[Hockey Guy]

Most think the ban is weak because Deal seems to have brought up a legit concern about UB blackjack & claims(which I personally believe) he sent you the HH's for you to look at & you seem to have done absolutely nothing with it.

You then bring up how heavily involved you were in the UB/AP investigation as some form of rebuttal which had absolutely nothing to do with what he said. Pretty sure he got pissed @ you because he feels you could have done something with the HH's he sent you since you say you were so involved but did nothing in his mind.

If it turns out he's lying & he never sent you these HH's then your actions would be justified but even you don't make that claim. This should be investigated IMO.

[Hockey Guy]

Holy fuck.

I just looked at the radio thread & you actually used his claim of UB Blackjack decks being "rigged" as a topic for the fucking show which makes his ban even weaker IMO.

[varys]

Yeah you always say shit like “go search x’s posts”...obviously no one cares enough to do that druff.

Just admit you got butt hurt and had a weak moment resulting in a bad, heavy handed decision and move on from it.

His trolling isnt anywhere near where fluffers and tydes are. Letting tyde fuck up countless pages of the trump thread yet banning one of the more intelligent posters because he hurt your feelings too many times is awful for content on a site already featuring fps russia.

Surely you can't be making the case that I'm giving Pockles some form of favortism. He's been trolling me constantly over the past few days and I'm considering banning him, as well.

It was not a heavy-handed or bad decision. The guy has been dedicating a healthy percentage of his posts in the past few YEARS to trolling me, and recently he's upped his troll game to making serious (and false) accusations that I'm a thief and a liar.

Were these isolated incidents, I would be annoyed but not ban him. However, it's clear that one of his main purposes here is to both harm my reputation and make me upset, and I don't want that sort of person here.

For example, I see you criticize me plenty, yet I've never once considered banning you. I know your negative messages are simply legitimate criticism, and not because you're trying to make me look bad or piss me off.

I don't mind when the users here try to have a laugh at my expense, but anyone whose longstanding purpose here is to make this forum not fun for me is someone who is going to be removed.

I'm far more tolerant of trolling against me than any other forum owner I've never known, so accusations of heavy hands here are not warranted.

Meh i like you druff but

[Dan Druff]

Most think the ban is weak because Deal seems to have brought up a legit concern about UB blackjack & claims(which I personally believe) he sent you the HH's for you to look at & you seem to have done absolutely nothing with it.

You then bring up how heavily involved you were in the UB/AP investigation as some form of rebuttal which had absolutely nothing to do with what he said. Pretty sure he got pissed @ you because he feels you could have done something with the HH's he sent you since you say you were so involved but did nothing in his mind.

If it turns out he's lying & he never sent you these HH's then your actions would be justified but even you don't make that claim. This should be investigated IMO.

He trolled me about the AP/UB stuff before I even entered the thread.

Again, if this were an isolated incident where he was mad that I ignored his blackjack claims years ago, and then lashed out when the subject came up, I wouldn't have a problem.

This guy has been trolling me about pretty much every subject over the past few years. His trolling wasn't a reaction to being ignored about blackjack claims, but rather one incident in a long string of pointless trolling over a long period of time.

I don't understand what you're arguing here. I didn't ban him for this thread. I banned him for years of pointless and nasty trolling of me. I think it's clear to everyone that has been happening, and I got tired of it.

[The_Lurker]

Most think the ban is weak because Deal seems to have brought up a legit concern about UB blackjack & claims(which I personally believe) he sent you the HH's for you to look at & you seem to have done absolutely nothing with it.

You then bring up how heavily involved you were in the UB/AP investigation as some form of rebuttal which had absolutely nothing to do with what he said. Pretty sure he got pissed @ you because he feels you could have done something with the HH's he sent you since you say you were so involved but did nothing in his mind.

If it turns out he's lying & he never sent you these HH's then your actions would be justified but even you don't make that claim. This should be investigated IMO.

He trolled me about the AP/UB stuff before I even entered the thread.

Again, if this were an isolated incident where he was mad that I ignored his blackjack claims years ago, and then lashed out, I wouldn't have a problem.

This guy has been trolling me about pretty much every subject over the past few years. His trolling wasn't a reaction to being ignored about blackjack claims, but rather one incident in a long string of pointless trolling over a long period of time.

I don't understand what you're arguing here. I didn't ban him for this thread. I banned him for years of pointless and nasty trolling of me. I think it's clear to everyone that has been happening, and I got tired of it.

I have read every post Deal has ever made, and you are being a huge baby.