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Thread: Did you ever want to see what would happen if Johnny from Karate Kid restarted Cobra Kai in 2018, and then Daniel LaRusso wanted to fight him? Me neither.

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    Hurricane Expert tgull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    BUMP

    For some reason, nobody gave their impression of Season 2, despite it being out for 5 months.

    It's funny, but despite liking Season 1, I didn't really feel the urge to watch Season 2. I think I sensed a letdown coming.

    I just started watching, and am through 2 episodes. Still fairly good, but doesn't grab your attention like the first season. The problem is that this is more of a contiuation of Season 1 than anything new.

    I do think the characters are very well drawn, with none of the main characters being irredeemable villains, and yet all are flawed -- just like in real life. However, there's one exception to this -- Daniel's wife. She's absolutely perfect. She's hot, she's intelligent, she's mature (which Daniel often isn't), she's sensible, she's professional (runs Daniel's dealership with him), and she's understanding. This character doesn't have a single flaw, which unfortunately means she's the only unrealistic character. I don't know why they drew her like this, given that all of the other characters have such depth. One interesting thing about the actress (Courtney Henggeler) is that, despite being hot, she also looks old for her age. I put her well over 40, yet she was only 36 during Season 1, and 37 now. Keep in mind that Ralph Macchio is 57 (but has always looked young for his age), so he's actually 20 years older than her! The Daniel LaRusso character is supposed to be 52 years old in 2019. It is implied in the series that his wife is in her 40s.

    Don't post spoilers here unless it's in a spoiler tag.
    I liked the first few episodes of the 1st season, but no desire whatsoever to see the second season. It's just not interesting to build up over 10 episodes to a climatic fight at the end. Really, Hollywood really missed this one in that the Johnny sympathetic figure was a great angle. It just should have been on the big screen for a movie with Daniel Larusso being incredibly obnoxious. Not sure why the decided a long series was best.

    Kind of like the final Rambo. I have not seen it, nor will I since it looks incredibly stupid. But a retired Rambo in a script like Clint Eastwood in Grand Tarino would have had appeal. Nobody wants to see a 73 old actor acting like he is 40 but I digress.

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    I do enjoy the little jabs against modern SJW culture they slip into the show, via the Johnny character.

    Example:

    <Johnny is on the phone>

    Johnny: "Yes, we are taking new students.... Yes, we accept both boys and girls...."

    <pause while person on other end is saying something>

    Johnny: "Gender what?? Is this is prank call?"

    It's strongly implied that the person on the other end claimed to be "Genderqueer", which seemed absurd to Johnny to the point where he believed the call to be a prank.

    This scene didn't advance the plot at all. It was simply a little swipe at modern SJW culture. I've seen a few other of these throughout the series, which is surprising coming from Hollywood.

    I assume this is because both Ralph Macchio and Martin Kove are conservative, and perhaps William Zabka is, as well. So it's possible that they have a writing team on the show who also has disdain for SJWs.

    They're actually very careful with the Johnny character -- who is portrayed as being somewhat stuck in the '80s and unaware of modern culture trends -- to not be seen as racist, evil, or bigoted. The show seems to almost celebrate the fact that a lot of modern SJW type concepts are foreign to him. The show also hasn't had any swipes against conservatives or Trump, making me further believe that this is one of the rare right-of-center productions out of Hollywood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgull View Post
    Kind of like the final Rambo. I have not seen it, nor will I since it looks incredibly stupid. But a retired Rambo in a script like Clint Eastwood in Grand Tarino would have had appeal. Nobody wants to see a 73 old actor acting like he is 40 but I digress.

    the author of the original rambo book (which and i cant stress this enough is legitimately great) burnt this last film alive and salted the earth under the ashes.

    apparently they consulted him early on and he gave them a lot of free feedback and felt like ok this has legs, then they ghosted him (not unusual). so he goes to check out the film and realizes they completely ignored everything he discussed with stallone. its basically grindhouse schlock with a decidedly anti-mexican vibe, which seemed especially tone deaf after the texas walmart incident, but more importantly has exactly fuckall to do with the central themes to brand.

    so yeah you very nearly got the movie you wanted, but either it was lost on the cutting room floor or stallone just wanted to make a version of grand tarino where eastwood geared up and exterminated a few dozen 'thugs'.

     
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      nunbeater: original book is mint and the ending was perfect
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tgull View Post
    Kind of like the final Rambo. I have not seen it, nor will I since it looks incredibly stupid. But a retired Rambo in a script like Clint Eastwood in Grand Tarino would have had appeal. Nobody wants to see a 73 old actor acting like he is 40 but I digress.

    the author of the original rambo book (which and i cant stress this enough is legitimately great) burnt this last film alive and salted the earth under the ashes.

    apparently they consulted him early on and he gave them a lot of free feedback and felt like ok this has legs, then they ghosted him (not unusual). so he goes to check out the film and realizes they completely ignored everything he discussed with stallone. its basically grindhouse schlock with a decidedly anti-mexican vibe, which seemed especially tone deaf after the texas walmart incident, but more importantly has exactly fuckall to do with the central themes to brand.

    so yeah you very nearly got the movie you wanted, but either it was lost on the cutting room floor or stallone just wanted to make a version of grand tarino where eastwood geared up and exterminated a few dozen 'thugs'.
    The original First Blood (Rambo) was perhaps the third best Vietnam movie ever, the first being Apocalypse Now and then The Deer Hunter. It's a close third. The movie was organic in that I don't even think Stallone knew what he was making. The whole opening Sheriff scene with Brian Dennehy is absolutely chilling, it set the stage for a great movie. Kind of like the opening of Red Dawn, another spectacular opening which basically launched Patrick Swayze and Charlie Sheen into their orbit.

    Getting back to Rambo, Stallone really did himself no favors historically by doing the Rocky and Rambo sequels. Both originals were so great, the sequels were simply money making devices which killed the brand at least as how it was originated. I talked to someone 20 years younger than me and the only Rocky movies he has seen was the Mr T and the fake Russian versions of the franchise. I am like WTF? I recommended he watch the original Rocky and he did, his review was he got through 45 minutes and turned it off as he felt it was boring.

    I watched both movies recently and both have stood the test of time, but I am in my 40s now so I am an old guy and big tits and vehicles blowing up in car chases simply does not interest me anymore. In fact soft porn and intense action never appealed to me on the big screen, but I was never a video gamer so I guess I am from a different generation. Either way a 73 year old Rambo blowing up 100 people is just a ridiculous premise, it could have been great, but they took the easy way out with high octane action versus a drama. But to Stallone's defense it will likely make a $50M profit when released worldwide so that is the name of the game when all said and done. Just a shame we are in this realm of lowest common denominator deciding what is produced now.

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    Finished season 2. Not bad. A clear villain did emerge in this season.

    Final episode was a bit over-the-top and ridiculous, though.

    Won't post any spoilers here, but I did find it LOL that the Dutch character from the original movie was said to be serving "5-10 years in state prison". Too bad Chad McQueen didn't agree to reprise his role. That was a great character. Pure sociopath, but honestly not explored very much in the original movie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Finished season 2. Not bad. A clear villain did emerge in this season.

    Final episode was a bit over-the-top and ridiculous, though.

    Won't post any spoilers here, but I did find it LOL that the Dutch character from the original movie was said to be serving "5-10 years in state prison". Too bad Chad McQueen didn't agree to reprise his role. That was a great character. Pure sociopath, but honestly not explored very much in the original movie.
    The reason Chad McQueen did not reprise his role is he is nearly 60 years old and can barely walk due to a race driving accident. Why would he want to reprise the role of some early 80s film? He is worth north of $40M and probably said why would I want to act like I am 25 anymore? He was asked to go into Kobra Kai, and declined. He is running a company now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post


    the author of the original rambo book (which and i cant stress this enough is legitimately great) burnt this last film alive and salted the earth under the ashes.

    apparently they consulted him early on and he gave them a lot of free feedback and felt like ok this has legs, then they ghosted him (not unusual). so he goes to check out the film and realizes they completely ignored everything he discussed with stallone. its basically grindhouse schlock with a decidedly anti-mexican vibe, which seemed especially tone deaf after the texas walmart incident, but more importantly has exactly fuckall to do with the central themes to brand.

    so yeah you very nearly got the movie you wanted, but either it was lost on the cutting room floor or stallone just wanted to make a version of grand tarino where eastwood geared up and exterminated a few dozen 'thugs'.
    The original First Blood (Rambo) was perhaps the third best Vietnam movie ever, the first being Apocalypse Now and then The Deer Hunter. It's a close third. The movie was organic in that I don't even think Stallone knew what he was making. The whole opening Sheriff scene with Brian Dennehy is absolutely chilling, it set the stage for a great movie. Kind of like the opening of Red Dawn, another spectacular opening which basically launched Patrick Swayze and Charlie Sheen into their orbit.

    Getting back to Rambo, Stallone really did himself no favors historically by doing the Rocky and Rambo sequels. Both originals were so great, the sequels were simply money making devices which killed the brand at least as how it was originated. I talked to someone 20 years younger than me and the only Rocky movies he has seen was the Mr T and the fake Russian versions of the franchise. I am like WTF? I recommended he watch the original Rocky and he did, his review was he got through 45 minutes and turned it off as he felt it was boring.

    I watched both movies recently and both have stood the test of time, but I am in my 40s now so I am an old guy and big tits and vehicles blowing up in car chases simply does not interest me anymore. In fact soft porn and intense action never appealed to me on the big screen, but I was never a video gamer so I guess I am from a different generation. Either way a 73 year old Rambo blowing up 100 people is just a ridiculous premise, it could have been great, but they took the easy way out with high octane action versus a drama. But to Stallone's defense it will likely make a $50M profit when released worldwide so that is the name of the game when all said and done. Just a shame we are in this realm of lowest common denominator deciding what is produced now.


    its interesting that there are literally 3 endings to 'first blood'.

    in the novel,
     
    rambo and the sheriff shoot each other and while the sheriff is bleeding out and rambo wanders off, wounded and dazed, where trautman blows his brains out with a shotgun.


    in the first draft of the movie, in the final confrontation between trautman and rambo, rambo calmly reaches down and takes trautman's 1911 and, holding the barrel, tells trautman 'you trained me, you made me, you'll kill me. you owe me that.' and trautman does exactly that, pulling the trigger. credits roll.

    for reasons that have never been really explained, stallone rewrote the ending, perhaps because he saw the potential for sequels but also perhaps because he sympathized with johnny. if i ever sit next to him on an airplane, thats will be the one and only thing i ask him about.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Hurricane Expert tgull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tgull View Post

    The original First Blood (Rambo) was perhaps the third best Vietnam movie ever, the first being Apocalypse Now and then The Deer Hunter. It's a close third. The movie was organic in that I don't even think Stallone knew what he was making. The whole opening Sheriff scene with Brian Dennehy is absolutely chilling, it set the stage for a great movie. Kind of like the opening of Red Dawn, another spectacular opening which basically launched Patrick Swayze and Charlie Sheen into their orbit.

    Getting back to Rambo, Stallone really did himself no favors historically by doing the Rocky and Rambo sequels. Both originals were so great, the sequels were simply money making devices which killed the brand at least as how it was originated. I talked to someone 20 years younger than me and the only Rocky movies he has seen was the Mr T and the fake Russian versions of the franchise. I am like WTF? I recommended he watch the original Rocky and he did, his review was he got through 45 minutes and turned it off as he felt it was boring.

    I watched both movies recently and both have stood the test of time, but I am in my 40s now so I am an old guy and big tits and vehicles blowing up in car chases simply does not interest me anymore. In fact soft porn and intense action never appealed to me on the big screen, but I was never a video gamer so I guess I am from a different generation. Either way a 73 year old Rambo blowing up 100 people is just a ridiculous premise, it could have been great, but they took the easy way out with high octane action versus a drama. But to Stallone's defense it will likely make a $50M profit when released worldwide so that is the name of the game when all said and done. Just a shame we are in this realm of lowest common denominator deciding what is produced now.


    its interesting that there are literally 3 endings to 'first blood'.

    in the novel,
     
    rambo and the sheriff shoot each other and while the sheriff is bleeding out and rambo wanders off, wounded and dazed, where trautman blows his brains out with a shotgun.


    in the first draft of the movie, in the final confrontation between trautman and rambo, rambo calmly reaches down and takes trautman's 1911 and, holding the barrel, tells trautman 'you trained me, you made me, you'll kill me. you owe me that.' and trautman does exactly that, pulling the trigger. credits roll.

    for reasons that have never been really explained, stallone rewrote the ending, perhaps because he saw the potential for sequels but also perhaps because he sympathized with johnny. if i ever sit next to him on an airplane, thats will be the one and only thing i ask him about.
    I would have loved to see Trautman end the movie with Rambo dying, or credits roll. Whatever worked but the movie should have permanently ended. To your point though Stallone saw he had another sequel money maker in another Rocky and elected to re-write Rambo doubling down. The issue I have with his sequels is he was so red hot in the 80s he could have accumulated massive wealth either way with Cobra movies or branching off into comedies.

    Tom Hanks refused to make another Forrest Gump even though the studios begged him to do it. He has been just fine since then. Spielberg on E-2 part two. They just said no and the movies live on. I dunno. I am not a fan of sequels but then again Godfather part 2 was amazing, but part three is likely the worst movie ever made.

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    The guy who played tommy really was dying.

    RIP kid.

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    Druff: "Did you ever want to see what would happen if Johnny from Karate Kid restarted Cobra Kai in 2018, and then Daniel LaRusso wanted to fight him? Me neither."

    Also Druff: So I just finished season two

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texter View Post
    The guy who played tommy really was dying.

    RIP kid.
    Yeah I thought when I watched the episode that either they did a great job with the makeup, or the dude really was dying of something. Good performance out of him, considering. He actually had a liver & kidney problem, and not cancer as depicted in the show.

    Get him a body bag. He would have wanted it that way.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/enter...59/3790558002/

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    BUMP

    Netflix bought the series from YouTube.

    Basically YouTube decided that they have enough user-generated content, and didn't feel like attempting to be a poor man's Netflix. Netflix expressed interest in buying it, and YouTube said, "Here, take it off our hands!"

    Season 3 is projected for 2021.

    Since it's now on Netflix, many people are finding it for the first time, especially while starved for new shows to watch.

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    I don't watch many tv shows but just finished season 1


    It's really good

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    Quote Originally Posted by big dick View Post
    I don't watch many tv shows but just finished season 1


    It's really good
    Notice there's zero jabs against Trump or Republicans, but several gags making fun of SJWs.

    How do you feel about that?

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    They made me laugh

    Lot of good one liners

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I do enjoy the little jabs against modern SJW culture they slip into the show, via the Johnny character.

    Example:

    <Johnny is on the phone>

    Johnny: "Yes, we are taking new students.... Yes, we accept both boys and girls...."

    <pause while person on other end is saying something>

    Johnny: "Gender what?? Is this is prank call?"

    It's strongly implied that the person on the other end claimed to be "Genderqueer", which seemed absurd to Johnny to the point where he believed the call to be a prank.

    This scene didn't advance the plot at all. It was simply a little swipe at modern SJW culture. I've seen a few other of these throughout the series, which is surprising coming from Hollywood.

    I assume this is because both Ralph Macchio and Martin Kove are conservative, and perhaps William Zabka is, as well. So it's possible that they have a writing team on the show who also has disdain for SJWs.

    They're actually very careful with the Johnny character -- who is portrayed as being somewhat stuck in the '80s and unaware of modern culture trends -- to not be seen as racist, evil, or bigoted. The show seems to almost celebrate the fact that a lot of modern SJW type concepts are foreign to him. The show also hasn't had any swipes against conservatives or Trump, making me further believe that this is one of the rare right-of-center productions out of Hollywood.
    It’s pretty obvious they are showing that Johnny lives so far in the past That he is obsessed with that he is clueless about all things modern...don’t think it’s really a jab at SJWs.

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    Life isn't fair. So get out there and kick the shit of everybody


  18. #78
    Hello everyone.

    I see this forum has some interest in Cobra Kai, now that it has moved to Netflix. I would like to expand upon a few things from a Hollywood insider's perspective.

    First we must look at why Cobra Kai was on YouTube Red in the first place. Susanne Daniels is head of original content at YouTube. In 2014, YouTube launched its premium service, which took the form of various names, including YouTube Red. Daniels wanted some original scripted programming for YouTube Red, as she felt that the premium service was failing to attract the coveted age 35-49 demographic, since much of YouTube's content is aimed at younger people.

    In 2017, executive producers Josh Heald, Jon Hurwitz, and Hayden Schlossberg pitched the series to a wide variety of streaming services and networks. Due to its strong script and the return of the two familiar, beloved characters of Johnny Lawrence and Daniel Larusso, it immediately received several lucrative offers. Amazon, Hulu, AMC, and Netflix made bids. However, well-heeled YouTube put forth the best offer, and so it landed there.

    Fast forward almost three years. YouTube Red had become YouTube Premium, and Ms. Daniels decided she was no longer interested in the original scripted content realm. Despite the fact that Cobra Kai had exceeded expectations, was loved by critics and viewers, drove new subscriptions, and created YouTube Red brand awareness, Ms. Daniels regretted the signing and regarded it as a mistake.

    How was that possible? Though not the fault of Cobra Kai or any of its principals, Daniels had made a strategic error in her original scripted programming effort. YouTube Premium/Red was a victim of its free version's success. Most people had a hard time paying for extra content on YouTube, given the staggering amount of free, high-quality, user-generated content available on the platform. Indeed, studies indicated that users subscribed to Premium in order to download videos and avoid ads. These were extensions of the free service which made it easier and more convenient to use. There simply weren't enough people interested in paying for Premium simply to access a few scripted shows.

    Furthermore, YouTube was already far behind in the original content game. Netflix, their main competitor in scripted streaming content, had a vast library of original shows, whereas YouTube was just starting from scratch. It was simply going to be too burdensome and expensive to continue this business model. As well as Cobra Kai was received, it wasn't coming anywhere close to returning the amount invested.

    Over at Netflix, a different problem was taking shape. 2020 was the year of COVID, and it didn't seem to be waning anytime soon. This was a disaster for scripted programming, as soon there would be a hole in original programming, with nearly all production halting in mid-March. Sure, Netflix had enough in the can in order to keep putting out new content in 2020, but 2021 was shaping up to be a big problem.

    The two companies realized they could do each other a favor. The highly praised Cobra Kai could find a much larger audience at Netflix, while also giving Netflix a full, already-filmed season which had not yet been released. YouTube could sell the rights at a profit, and actually negate much of the money wasted on the ill-fated scripted programming idea. It was a match made in heaven.

    In June 2020, the deed was done. Cobra Kai became property of Netflix, and was heavily promoted. Indeed, the show picked up many fans, many of whom were not at all aware it even existed. This is why you probably noticed an intense renewed interest in Cobra Kai over the summer, despite nothing new being released. Netflix customers were finding it for the very first time, and they instantly had two seasons to binge.

    But what of Season 3? Netflix decided that two seasons was enough for the time being. After all, it qualified as "new" programming for the vast majority of their subscriber base. Therefore, forcing a wait until 2021 would not be seen as unreasonable. While this angered some Cobra Kai fans who were anxiously awaiting the previously-stated 2020 release, overall Netflix did the right thing, given their overall dearth of new programming.

    Season 3 will drop on Netflix on January 8, 2021.




    I saw Dan Druff mention that he believed Cobra Kai to be one of the rare productions with a right-of-center slant. He is actually correct. This was at the insistence of both William Zabka and Ralph Macchio, both of whom are closeted Hollywood conservatives. (Additionally, Martin Kove, who joined in season 2, is also politically conservative.) The men insisted that the show was to contain no Trump-bashing, no jabs at Republicans, and no implied messages that conservatives are evil. In fact, the actors insisted that the show remain completely apolitical. The small portion of social commentary comes through the Johnny character, which is carefully crafted to simply look like a fish-out-of-water '80s guy not understanding today's world. However, if you look closely, the writers use the Johnny character to express quiet disdain for contemporary identity politics.

    I was curious how all of this would go over at Netflix, after YouTube basically gave Cobra Kai full creative freedom. From what I am hearing, Netflix has also chosen not to meddle. It is unclear if we will see more little jabs against social justice warrior types, or if the writers simply opted to keep everything 100% apolitical as originally intended.

    The series has already been renewed for Season 4, though that is probably a long time away.

     
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      Dan Druff: great info

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    This has been great, I first saw this a couple years ago on Youtube really liked it. Now this and of course am enjoying it. If you didnt know any better, its sort of just a continuation of the Karate Kid movies, newish story line which is pretty cool, just a bit grown up. And now they have kids growing up (enter new story lol) and its really clever how they are doing this imo. I can t wait for the new season to be dropped of course lol.

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    I had forgotten how interesting Harry's story was above regarding the move from YouTube to Netflix. Learned a lot of new stuff from that post back in November.

    Anyway, I'm halfway through Season 3, which dropped on January 1. They were going to release it on January 8, but they decided to move it up a week for unknown reasons -- perhaps because January 1 is a more memorable date.

    I try not to binge these too hard because there's a law of diminishing returns. It's nicer to slowly take it in, and COVID will probably delay Season 4 for awhile anyway.

    I won't give any major spoilers away. I will say that we are already seeing the return of several characters from the original movies, who were not back for Seasons 1-2. So far, they've been incorporated pretty well.

    There was yet another jab at SJW culture -- this time via a clueless, left-wing, touchy-feely guidance counselor who gets manipulated by the kids. At one point, one of the villain teens complains of another student, "She showed all kinds of aggressions -- both macro and micro." Again, SJW culture is presented as something ridiculous for us to laugh at, rather than any kind of evolution of social responsibility. It's refreshing to see. At the same time, there isn't one mention of Trump, and nothing in the entire series has any kind of implied bashing of conservatives. Surprisingly, there has been little discussion of this on the internet, but for sure what I'm noticing is real.

    Dee Snider has a cameo, performing as "Dee Snider", rather than Twisted Sister. This doesn't give anything away regarding the plot, by the way.

    Here's a few spoilers from halfway through viewing. Do not read unless you've watched at least half the episodes of Season 3:

     

    I wasn't understanding why the villains in jail with Robbie were all black. Even a mildly right-leaning production doesn't have the nerve to make the good guy white and the bad guys black! I was wondering what I was missing, and how this was even possible when it was made in 2019. Turns out that the leader of the group of bad guys (who is black, and for awhile seems like an irredeemable asshole) bonds with Robbie at one point, when they don't snitch on each other after being caught in a massive fight. Ah! The "bad" black guy isn't really bad, thus they didn't need to insert a token white guy in his little jail gang.

    Johnny accepts a Facebook request from Alli Mills (from the original movie) on Facebook. However, I doubt they will become an item again, as it's clear Johnny is going to end up with Miguel's mom. Presumably Johnny will meet up with Alli and finally put to bed his 35-year broken heart over her, which will allow him to move on.

    Robbie attempts to search "John Kreese" on google, and gets very realistic-looking results. However, since Kreese is supposed to be a real person and not a character, obviously they couldn't display results about the movie/character, and one of the top results is a "serious" article about the All Valley Karate Tournament in 1983. I wonder if Google specifically made that results page for them. Kinda looks like it.

    Clearly they wished that Daniel was single when he went to Okinawa and found Kumiko there. There was a lot of sexual tension in the scenes, which was never mentioned or explored, because Daniel is supposed to be a family man who loves his wife.

    I don't understand why they humanized Tory Nichols at the beginning of the season (showing that she's responsibly taking care of her sick mom and younger sibling), yet dropped all of that in the Laser Tag scene, where suddenly she becomes a cold sociopath type again.

    I liked how all the cliche "tough mentor rehabs injured character to walk again" attempts ended in failure, which I was actually hoping they would. Instead, Miguel was finally able to move his feet again when moving to the sound of live music, and didn't even notice until it was pointed out.



    Also lol @ "Doyona" as a stand-in for "Toyota".

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