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Thread: Stations Casinos stiff players out of bad beat jackpot due to technicality, refuses to pay after Nevada Gaming Control recommends they pay

  1. #1
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Stations Casinos stiff players out of bad beat jackpot due to technicality, refuses to pay after Nevada Gaming Control recommends they pay

    https://www.reviewjournal.com/busine...poker-jackpot/

    Cliffs:

    - After the river was dealt, one player showed his hand to people indicating that he had a straight flush, which ended up beating a lower straight flush.

    - Bad Beat Jackpot was $120,0000 -- $60k was to go to loser of hand, $30k to winner, and other $30k to be split by 80 others playing in all different Station Casinos poker rooms at the time.

    - Stations DENIED jackpot due to technicality that you can't show your hand to anyone until after all the betting was complete, and he showed it on the river before betting was complete.

    - Above rule is in place in order to stop people from "playing for the jackpot", such as softplaying opponents with possible jackpot hands, but clearly doesn't apply to hands after the river is dealt, where outcome is established and no one is folding a monster hand regardless of the action.

    - Complaint was made to Nevada Gaming. A Gaming agent reviewed it and recommended Stations pay the jackpot. Stations refused.

    - Hearing taking place currently, with Stations attorneys arguing why they shouldn't have to pay.


    The oddest thing? This is a PR disaster, and the $120k is mostly (or completely?) player funded, so Stations isn't even saving much (or any) money by refusing to pay it!

    Yes, it looks better for them to have a bigger jackpot ongoing, but the value from that doesn't come near the bad PR for this entire mess. No idea why Stations is fighting this so hard.

    There will not be a ruling until late December or early January, and Stations has the right to appeal!


  2. #2
    Gold duped_samaritan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    The oddest thing? This is a PR disaster, and the $120k is mostly (or completely?) player funded, so Stations isn't even saving much (or any) money by refusing to pay it!

    Yes, it looks better for them to have a bigger jackpot ongoing, but the value from that doesn't come near the bad PR for this entire mess. No idea why Stations is fighting this so hard.

    There will not be a ruling until late December or early January, and Stations has the right to appeal!

    This really just proves how disconnected the lawyers are from reality.

    If it's a player funded jackpot, meaning that there is no way for the casino to steal the funds for themselves, the only thing that really matters is what the players want...and this issue isn't even close.

    It's not like a bunch of players would be up in arms over 'their' jackpot being payed to another player who didn't deserve it...
    Last edited by duped_samaritan; 12-14-2017 at 02:52 PM. Reason: thanks for the edit privileges druff :)

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post
    This really just proves how disconnected the lawyers are from reality.

    If it's a player funded jackpot, meaning that there is no way for the casino to steal the funds for themselves, the only thing that really matters is what the players want...and this issue isn't even close.

    It's not like a bunch of players would be up in arms over 'their' jackpot being payed to another player who didn't deserve it...

    The lawyers are very likely just arguing the position their client paid them to advance.

     
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      Dan Druff: agree

  4. #4
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    I played in a 1-2 game once at Greektown in Detroit where the guy who opened to 7 bucks and was folded to the BB who flatted. The opener flopped quads it went check flop check turn and on the river it put a straight flush possibility on the board. the BB asked the dealer what the minimum pot size for the bad beat jackpot was (it was 20 bucks) and since there was only 15 in he bet 5 and of course the guy just called the 5 with his quads. I honestly thought they weren’t going to pay it out because of it but they did with no questions.

     
    Comments
      
      Tellafriend: quality post

  5. #5
    Fuck these people.

    I got DNI’ed (do not invite) from all stations casinos in 2014. From roughly March 2013 to April 2014, I beat Redrock out of 280k solely playing a Bally’s stand alone video roulette machine that at the time had a max denomination of $10 units.

    The flaw in the machine was that it let you insert an unlimited amount of money into the machine. They had a bank of six and this mistake was only on one of them. Every other Bally’s machine that I have ever seen in Vegas, AC, Connecticut etc had a max buy in of $3000, meaning it would not accept cash/vouchers after that amount.

    They were sending me free play as high as $500 a week, as well as monthly room offers, which I used every so often. Redrock is still by far the crown jewel of local properties and surpasses many strip properties in decor.

    I didn’t do anything illegal. In fact, I was quite open about the fact I was using the no limit deposit with a high bankroll to play very high stakes roulette.

    They ended up DNI’ing me, which meant they deactivated my card. Disavowed me from receiving any offers and it is in there database at every property that I am not allowed to receive comps regardless of how high I play or what losses I acrue going forward.

    I was told this is a lifetime DNI.

    That’s fine.

    I rather have the 280k.

    But lol my dad- who never played roulette with me- was also DNI’ed for life by association.

    Stations casinos, like many other local casinos, have promotions for seniors. Stations promotion (among other things) entitled my dad every Wednesday to a free cup of coffee from Starbucks and a $4 movie ticket anytime before 6pm.

    Yeah I know. But you know how older people are. My pop used to enjoy going there on a Wednesday and grabbing a coffee with his friends.

    So he literally finds out he is DNI’ed after Starbucks scans his players card and tells him that his weekly free coffee offer has been revoked.

    My dad was embarrassed and pissed.

    He went as far as to email corporate and say (with my consent lol) that we were estranged and he knew nothing of my gambling behavior etc.

    They told him the DNI stood. Would not even elaborate to him other than to say it was a corporate decision that was final.

    Fuck these people.

    They are the worst.

    They started a huge city wide promotion years ago called “We Love a Locals” after a ton of bad press and losing market share to coast casinos and to a variety of local slot houses that catered to locals.

  6. #6
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I can confirm Brandon's story that they like to both DNI and trespass "associates" of anyone they don't like.

    I know someone who was caught card counting at a Stations casino. He would not give his ID so they could not DNI him or put him in the system in any way, so they just trespassed him, took a picture of him, and kicked him out.

    He was with some other people at the time this happened -- very recreational, low-limit gamblers, who were playing lol $3 shoe blackjack at a completely different table. These friends of his were NOT counters, nor were they suspected of being counters. They were also not kicked out like he was, but they left voluntarily with him when they saw him being trespassed.

    The Station casino in question went back, figured out the identities of all of his friends (the ones who were at the different table but left with him), and retroactively trespassed all of them without telling them.

    Next time they went to a Station casino and tried to use their card, all of his friends got the bad news.

    It took a lot of fighting to reverse, and some of them just gave up and never went back there.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    https://www.reviewjournal.com/busine...poker-jackpot/

    Cliffs:

    - After the river was dealt, one player showed his hand to people indicating that he had a straight flush, which ended up beating a lower straight flush.

    - Bad Beat Jackpot was $120,0000 -- $60k was to go to loser of hand, $30k to winner, and other $30k to be split by 80 others playing in all different Station Casinos poker rooms at the time.

    - Stations DENIED jackpot due to technicality that you can't show your hand to anyone until after all the betting was complete, and he showed it on the river before betting was complete.

    - Above rule is in place in order to stop people from "playing for the jackpot", such as softplaying opponents with possible jackpot hands, but clearly doesn't apply to hands after the river is dealt, where outcome is established and no one is folding a monster hand regardless of the action.

    - Complaint was made to Nevada Gaming. A Gaming agent reviewed it and recommended Stations pay the jackpot. Stations refused.
    The betting was complete.

    Red Rock Casino (Station Casinos) believes action isn't over until the dealer asks to see the players cards.

    The players were turning over their cards after the river card was dealt but before the dealer asks to see their cards.

    Even Nevada Gaming Control knows that is a bullshit technically and recommended they pay up.

    Pay the players the fucking money.



  8. #8
    Only a matter of time the Stations Casinos (who also used to own the UFC) would treat their customers like they do their workers

     
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      sah_24: So true Dana is the nut fucking low ...
    http://www.miraclecovers.com

    "Donk down, that’s what you say to someone after they have lost 28K straight?" - Phil Hellmuth, online

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Drexel View Post
    Fuck these people.

    I got DNI’ed (do not invite) from all stations casinos in 2014. From roughly March 2013 to April 2014, I beat Redrock out of 280k solely playing a Bally’s stand alone video roulette machine that at the time had a max denomination of $10 units.

    The flaw in the machine was that it let you insert an unlimited amount of money into the machine. They had a bank of six and this mistake was only on one of them. Every other Bally’s machine that I have ever seen in Vegas, AC, Connecticut etc had a max buy in of $3000, meaning it would not accept cash/vouchers after that amount.

    They were sending me free play as high as $500 a week, as well as monthly room offers, which I used every so often. Redrock is still by far the crown jewel of local properties and surpasses many strip properties in decor.

    I didn’t do anything illegal. In fact, I was quite open about the fact I was using the no limit deposit with a high bankroll to play very high stakes roulette.

    They ended up DNI’ing me, which meant they deactivated my card. Disavowed me from receiving any offers and it is in there database at every property that I am not allowed to receive comps regardless of how high I play or what losses I acrue going forward.

    I was told this is a lifetime DNI.

    That’s fine.

    I rather have the 280k.

    But lol my dad- who never played roulette with me- was also DNI’ed for life by association.

    Stations casinos, like many other local casinos, have promotions for seniors. Stations promotion (among other things) entitled my dad every Wednesday to a free cup of coffee from Starbucks and a $4 movie ticket anytime before 6pm.

    Yeah I know. But you know how older people are. My pop used to enjoy going there on a Wednesday and grabbing a coffee with his friends.

    So he literally finds out he is DNI’ed after Starbucks scans his players card and tells him that his weekly free coffee offer has been revoked.

    My dad was embarrassed and pissed.

    He went as far as to email corporate and say (with my consent lol) that we were estranged and he knew nothing of my gambling behavior etc.

    They told him the DNI stood. Would not even elaborate to him other than to say it was a corporate decision that was final.

    Fuck these people.

    They are the worst.

    They started a huge city wide promotion years ago called “We Love a Locals” after a ton of bad press and losing market share to coast casinos and to a variety of local slot houses that catered to locals.
    So, I've asked before, but how are you beating a double zero roulette game? What you deposit has no bearing. Inquiring minds and shit....

     
    Comments
      
      ShawnFanningsLimpDick: This. Are you getting comps based on how much you have in play or something?

  10. #10
    Lord help you Tella if you think he edge sorted fucking roulette. Do you think the Asian female cartoon graphic he took his betting cues from was trespassed as well?
    Or did she get off with a stern warning to never do it again if she didnt want have her ass unprogrammed.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Brittney Griner's Clit View Post
    Lord help you Tella if you think he edge sorted fucking roulette. Do you think the Asian female cartoon graphic he took his betting cues from was trespassed as well?
    Or did she get off with a stern warning to never do it again if she didnt want have her ass unprogrammed.

    I don't speak lunatic. Please translate for me.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellafriend View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drexel View Post
    Fuck these people.

    I got DNI’ed (do not invite) from all stations casinos in 2014. From roughly March 2013 to April 2014, I beat Redrock out of 280k solely playing a Bally’s stand alone video roulette machine that at the time had a max denomination of $10 units.

    The flaw in the machine was that it let you insert an unlimited amount of money into the machine. They had a bank of six and this mistake was only on one of them. Every other Bally’s machine that I have ever seen in Vegas, AC, Connecticut etc had a max buy in of $3000, meaning it would not accept cash/vouchers after that amount.

    They were sending me free play as high as $500 a week, as well as monthly room offers, which I used every so often. Redrock is still by far the crown jewel of local properties and surpasses many strip properties in decor.

    I didn’t do anything illegal. In fact, I was quite open about the fact I was using the no limit deposit with a high bankroll to play very high stakes roulette.

    They ended up DNI’ing me, which meant they deactivated my card. Disavowed me from receiving any offers and it is in there database at every property that I am not allowed to receive comps regardless of how high I play or what losses I acrue going forward.

    I was told this is a lifetime DNI.

    That’s fine.

    I rather have the 280k.

    But lol my dad- who never played roulette with me- was also DNI’ed for life by association.

    Stations casinos, like many other local casinos, have promotions for seniors. Stations promotion (among other things) entitled my dad every Wednesday to a free cup of coffee from Starbucks and a $4 movie ticket anytime before 6pm.

    Yeah I know. But you know how older people are. My pop used to enjoy going there on a Wednesday and grabbing a coffee with his friends.

    So he literally finds out he is DNI’ed after Starbucks scans his players card and tells him that his weekly free coffee offer has been revoked.

    My dad was embarrassed and pissed.

    He went as far as to email corporate and say (with my consent lol) that we were estranged and he knew nothing of my gambling behavior etc.

    They told him the DNI stood. Would not even elaborate to him other than to say it was a corporate decision that was final.

    Fuck these people.

    They are the worst.

    They started a huge city wide promotion years ago called “We Love a Locals” after a ton of bad press and losing market share to coast casinos and to a variety of local slot houses that catered to locals.
    So, I've asked before, but how are you beating a double zero roulette game? What you deposit has no bearing. Inquiring minds and shit....
    Might as well spill the beans Brandon. Was the machine giving you extra players club points? Or a promotion where you got free bets as you put in cash? Must have been some type of freeroll.

  13. #13

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Drexel View Post
    Fuck these people.

    I got DNI’ed (do not invite) from all stations casinos in 2014. From roughly March 2013 to April 2014, I beat Redrock out of 280k solely playing a Bally’s stand alone video roulette machine that at the time had a max denomination of $10 units.

    The flaw in the machine was that it let you insert an unlimited amount of money into the machine. They had a bank of six and this mistake was only on one of them. Every other Bally’s machine that I have ever seen in Vegas, AC, Connecticut etc had a max buy in of $3000, meaning it would not accept cash/vouchers after that amount.

    They were sending me free play as high as $500 a week, as well as monthly room offers, which I used every so often. Redrock is still by far the crown jewel of local properties and surpasses many strip properties in decor.

    I didn’t do anything illegal. In fact, I was quite open about the fact I was using the no limit deposit with a high bankroll to play very high stakes roulette.
    It doesn't matter. You cost the casino money.

    Caesars has a policy that in any given year, they must always profit off you or ban your ass for life.

    Phil Ivey didn't do anything illegal either.

    He owes Borgata (MGM Resorts) over $10 million for taking advantage of the casino using that edge-sorting card trick.

    When are they going to ban his ass and remove his name from the Aria poker room?

    In the future, Las Vegas casinos will avoid paying large cashouts so they can review your play and find a way to not pay you your winnings.



  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Drexel View Post
    Fuck these people.

    I got DNI’ed (do not invite) from all stations casinos in 2014. From roughly March 2013 to April 2014, I beat Redrock out of 280k solely playing a Bally’s stand alone video roulette machine that at the time had a max denomination of $10 units.

    The flaw in the machine was that it let you insert an unlimited amount of money into the machine. They had a bank of six and this mistake was only on one of them. Every other Bally’s machine that I have ever seen in Vegas, AC, Connecticut etc had a max buy in of $3000, meaning it would not accept cash/vouchers after that amount.

    They were sending me free play as high as $500 a week, as well as monthly room offers, which I used every so often. Redrock is still by far the crown jewel of local properties and surpasses many strip properties in decor.

    I didn’t do anything illegal. In fact, I was quite open about the fact I was using the no limit deposit with a high bankroll to play very high stakes roulette.

    .
    .
    .

    I rather have the 280k.
    Does not compute. How did this work? I can understand if you don't want to elaborate, but what on earth does not having an limit on the amount you can put in that "special" machine have to do with fact that the machine was still the -EV game of roulette (it was single zero I believe you once said).

    Surely you weren't getting comped on the amount you inserted?!! They couldn't have been giving you more offers than 2.63% of your action, could they?

  16. #16
    I used to play a lot at Boulder or at Red Rock depending on what mood I am in and after this I haven't darkened a Station Casino's door, IMHO Forrest(whom is no longer at RR) who hates players is the one who really started this issue.

    We were just talking about this on Friday night down at GN while playing.

  17. #17
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    BUMP

    Gaming rules in favor of the players. Red Rock decides not to appeal.

    Biggest winner of the jackpot (the loser of the hand) gets paid: https://www.pokernews.com/news/2018/...case-29974.htm

    It was not made clear if the others have been paid yet, but presumably they will.

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