Betcoin.ag FAIL, followed by theft of Bad Beat Jackpot

[Dan Druff]

I believe they were lurking on the 2+2 thread and elsewhere (probably including here, since I brought their attention to PFA when I trolled their site), and are getting scared.

That's the only explanation as to why they are "paying" the Bad Beat Jackpot. They definitely aren't doing it for customer goodwill, as they were both willing to rip people off in the past AND probably don't expect many former poker customers in the casino.

So it's very likely that they are either scared of legal retaliation (lawsuits, criminal complaints) or illegal retaliation (people tracking them down and harming them physically).

I'm guessing it's more fear of the legal retaliation, so they are trying to offer a "solution" which will calm people down.

Unfortunately, much like the phony $22 million "refunded" after the UB scandal, there will be no list of who is getting paid back, so the company can claim they've made a large refund and there will be no way to verify it.

Since this will be a refund to anyone who has contributed to the BBJ, no individual will get a large sum of money, and the few people posting on forums won't be able to add it up to anything significant.

Additionally, many of the accounts receiving these "refunds" are likely dormant because they went broke a long time ago, and that money will never be cashed out. That's also part of the trick.

If they really wanted to distribute it, they would hold a freeroll for anyone who ever contributed to the BBJ, or alternately, anyone who ever played real money on their site.

But they won't.

This is yet another trick, to where they will pay a small percentage of that 43 BTC jackpot and make it appear that they paid the whole thing.

LOL at the phrase "We apologize to you, because our research indicates that Betcoin.ag has not taken the very best care of you."

[Dan Druff]

Anyway, the players should demand a full list of all accounts receiving the BBJ, make sure it adds up the 43 BTC, and they should also agree to notify all players by e-mail receiving any money, so they know to log into the site and access it.

[Dan Druff]

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/twt/status/946749292940632064

I invited him on radio in response.

[TwitchySeal]

Edit: I've got a lot going on right now and apologize if anything isn't too clear. I can back everything I say up with proof, I have hundreds of screenshots and links to BTCTalk posts, but I'm not going to take the time to provide proof for everything, I could literally spend 10+ hours going back through all the shit I've posted about them between 4, btctalk, and even PFA- but I'd be happy to respond to anything that isn't clear. I'm just gonna type this post and hit enter though.

I haven't listened to the last radio show, but I believe Druff got a lot wrong. Specifically with the xiaoxiao rakeback thing. This is mostly coming from one of their 'pros' and likely 'new poker room manager' ISnortBooze.

I had a surprisingly positive convo with "new" support a few days ago. I will be posting the whole transcript so you guys can judge for yourself. I'm back home now from my holiday travels, and my IP is banned. I think they'll fix is.

My first instinct was "bullshit, these aren't new people, they are just trying to get me to calm down and let them move along with their scam" - then they posted the "apology". This is VERY out of character for Betcoin. For the last 3+ years I can't recall any sort of sincere apology for any reason. The closest being along the lines of "sorry we fucked up for thinking our players were honest and wouldn't cheat/exploit some bug in our system, so now everyone has to pay."

Anyway, my point is, they may actually have at least some amount of new leadership.

Back to the public chat, which took place between myself, "Betcoin" (who claimed to be named Brandon or Brendan) and a couple other current/former regs.

They are claiming that they would take the entire BBJP (~34 BTC I think, give or take ~2 BTC) and distribute it back to the players based on exactly how much they actually contributed. Were talking in the neighborhood of ~$500,000

They also claimed they would give all the data to a respected, unbiased third party to determine the most fair way of distributing things. (My suggestion was Michael Shackleford - they might have to pay him a decent amount, but I'm sure that even Druff would approve of whatever payout formula he decided on. Druff wouldn't be a good fit to do this as he has already proven a [rightful] bias towards Betcoin.)

If the do end up deciding return the entire Jackpot, it will be very complicated and take a while, but I think this would be a good place to discuss how things should be handled.


- What about the numerous banned accounts who played cash?

-What about the account who contributed a small amount 2 years ago and have not checked in with Bitcoin or poker world in years?

-What about the players that are dead?

-What about the team of Bots that played on Betcoin for at least the first 1-2 years of their site? (existence of these bots is 100% true. They existed until the day they began their table starter rakeback)

[TwitchySeal]

An interesting fact. PLO8Monster's son works or owns @ LimeStone Networks. Which is a server/hosting company.

Perfect set up to them to be running betcoin.

https://www.limestonenetworks.com/

His son is a huge bitcoin advocate. So I have a theory.....

Dad is a poker player...
Son is a bitcoin advocate...and appears to also play poker....
They both get an idea....I bet we could run a poker site, but instead of messing around with a payment processor, we'll use bitcoin so it can stay anonymous!!!

You are so close it is insane ,Just add about 3 more people to that 'we should start a poker site " discussion .

I am relatively confident that Betcoin is or was owned by Betsoft

I think that the father/son team you refer to are nowhere near intelligent to be anything more than a mouthpiece for Betcoin.

The only real question is if they are more retarded or loyal to the site.

[Sirens]

You are so close it is insane ,Just add about 3 more people to that 'we should start a poker site " discussion .

I am relatively confident that Betcoin is or was owned by Betsoft

I think that the father/son team you refer to are nowhere near intelligent to be anything more than a mouthpiece for Betcoin.

The only real question is if they are more retarded or loyal to the site.

You don't seem to really know much about the situation or not as much as you think you do .
PLO8monster Is not a bright dude you got that part right ,His son ZZZZZZ can build betcoin from ground up with the right team ,And if the truth came out about betcoin you will most likely be hearing them referred to as The betcoin 6 ..It is pretty simple and a huge part of early sealswithclubs history on why and how this all came about and trying to eject the father son team as being a minute part of betcoin is just LOL .

[Sirens]

PLO8MONSTER seems to be owning up to more then just a site pro umm a year ago.

https://www.betcoin.ag/twitchyseal-o...-about-betcoin

[TwitchySeal]

@Sirens You should get the fuck out of here if you're going to try bringing these bullshit accusations.

Quick TL;DR - I think it's possible that Betcoin has been sold or they replaced some or all Management and CS with competent people. Problem is, it will take a while for the shills to realize they were just shills all along before they crawl back into the hole they came from.

The link you posted suggests that I offered someone money to say bad things about Betcoin. Many others have accused me of being paid money to post bad things about Betcoin.

Let me be clear:
-I have never offered or paid anyone anything to post anything, good or bad, about any site or product or really anything on any forum anywhere.
-I have never been offered or paid anything to post anything bad about Betcoin.
-I have never profited from any negative post I've made about Betcoin.

The link you posted includes a screenshot of a instagram chat. I don't use instagram.

Here's another link with a shitload of screenshots of me appearing to say things I never did: https://www.betcoin.ag/twitchyseal-b...in-proof-below

If you really care and think I might be lying, read through the comments, do some digging about who that Ajtun guy is and what happened to him.

Here's initial accusation (keep in mind Betcoin deleted most of my responses explain that these were all either photoshopped, edited or between a fake "twitchyseal" account.)





Betcoin posted the above fake chat logs on bitcointalk and then locked the thread, btw: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...71#msg15743071

======================

zzzzzzzz (plo8monsters son) is an bitcoin faucet affiliate spammer. He throws up freerolls for pocket-change to get broke degens to share his affiliate links that are literally just pages of ads to other affiliate faucets (or straight up ad fraud)

Also, he'd give MasterScaler and TheSpartan a run for their money if they were to compete for the lowest poker IQ.
======================

Anyway with all that being said: I actually believe the following is more likely true than not true:

Betcoin is under new management.
They are working on obtaining some sort of gaming licence (likely a shady licence, I have no details)
Poker room is closed.
Badbeat Jackpot (which is worth either 34 or 43 bitcoin (I cant remember) will paid out in a manner that Druff would approve of.


Remember, this is all coming one of, if not, Betcoins biggest and most relentless critics over the past 3 years.

[DonaldTrumpsHairPiece]

Betcoin sold the same way SWCPoker sold.

[TwitchySeal]

Betcoin sold the same way SWCPoker sold.

In many ways you're right.

But I think even Druff would agree comparing Randall and Machen Matthews to Bryan Micon would be unfair.

They all did stupid things and put lots of effort into promoting Bitcoin poker than administrating the site technically, but Micon would never look the other way the way the Matthews did when players were being robbed left and right.

[Sirens]

@Sirens You should get the fuck out of here if you're going to try bringing these bullshit accusations.

Quick TL;DR - I think it's possible that Betcoin has been sold or they replaced some or all Management and CS with competent people. Problem is, it will take a while for the shills to realize they were just shills all along before they crawl back into the hole they came from.

The link you posted suggests that I offered someone money to say bad things about Betcoin. Many others have accused me of being paid money to post bad things about Betcoin.

Let me be clear:
-I have never offered or paid anyone anything to post anything, good or bad, about any site or product or really anything on any forum anywhere.
-I have never been offered or paid anything to post anything bad about Betcoin.
-I have never profited from any negative post I've made about Betcoin.

The link you posted includes a screenshot of a instagram chat. I don't use instagram.

Here's another link with a shitload of screenshots of me appearing to say things I never did: https://www.betcoin.ag/twitchyseal-b...in-proof-below

If you really care and think I might be lying, read through the comments, do some digging about who that Ajtun guy is and what happened to him.

Here's initial accusation (keep in mind Betcoin deleted most of my responses explain that these were all either photoshopped, edited or between a fake "twitchyseal" account.)





Betcoin posted the above fake chat logs on bitcointalk and then locked the thread, btw: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...71#msg15743071

======================

zzzzzzzz (plo8monsters son) is an bitcoin faucet affiliate spammer. He throws up freerolls for pocket-change to get broke degens to share his affiliate links that are literally just pages of ads to other affiliate faucets (or straight up ad fraud)

Also, he'd give MasterScaler and TheSpartan a run for their money if they were to compete for the lowest poker IQ.
======================

Anyway with all that being said: I actually believe the following is more likely true than not true:

Betcoin is under new management.
They are working on obtaining some sort of gaming licence (likely a shady licence, I have no details)
Poker room is closed.
Badbeat Jackpot (which is worth either 34 or 43 bitcoin (I cant remember) will paid out in a manner that Druff would approve of.


Remember, this is all coming one of, if not, Betcoins biggest and most relentless critics over the past 3 years.

I don't really give a shit if you paid someone to say something or not,If you read my post clearly and i am guessing that is something you cant seem to do proper then you would know I don't give a shit ,But watching you get damn near everything wrong is really funny.Being a critic is nice nothing wrong with that .You do realize some people personally know these scums and they know alot more info then it is that you think you do correct?
Now instead of running around like a cry baby bitch with your "I think" BS . I was simply posting plo8monsters response That clearly shows he had a lot more control then just being a affiliate or a site pro but I guess you are just to fucking dumb to have noticed that being to busy thinking someone was judging your and all .

[TwitchySeal]

@Sirens:

So I'm dumb, Randal is dumb, you know more than me, and Menachem is a great developer.
You don't give a shit about most of this.
Oh and Randal has the ability to moderate chat and forums in addition to being site pro.

Anything else?

[Dan Druff]

Betcoin sold the same way SWCPoker sold.

In many ways you're right.

But I think even Druff would agree comparing Randall and Machen Matthews to Bryan Micon would be unfair.

They all did stupid things and put lots of effort into promoting Bitcoin poker than administrating the site technically, but Micon would never look the other way the way the Matthews did when players were being robbed left and right.

The Micon I knew is essentially dead, so I don't know what he'd do.

I did think it was shady how original Seals made off with unclaimed balances after 30 days, including balances of people like Jesse Martin who were trying to reset their password and were having trouble doing so.

Micon said he had no control over this, but I felt he was too dismissive.

Giving people 30 days to claim their money and then permanently taking it -- especially when the same site basically restarts elsewhere -- is very bad form.

Not sure if Micon profited from that, but someone did.

[Sirens]

@Sirens:

So I'm dumb, Randal is dumb, you know more than me, and Menachem is a great developer.
You don't give a shit about most of this.
Oh and Randal has the ability to moderate chat and forums in addition to being site pro.

Anything else?

Nope I think that about covers it.

[DonaldTrumpsHairPiece]

In many ways you're right.

But I think even Druff would agree comparing Randall and Machen Matthews to Bryan Micon would be unfair.

They all did stupid things and put lots of effort into promoting Bitcoin poker than administrating the site technically, but Micon would never look the other way the way the Matthews did when players were being robbed left and right.

The Micon I knew is essentially dead, so I don't know what he'd do.

I did think it was shady how original Seals made off with unclaimed balances after 30 days, including balances of people like Jesse Martin who were trying to reset their password and were having trouble doing so.

Micon said he had no control over this, but I felt he was too dismissive.

Giving people 30 days to claim their money and then permanently taking it -- especially when the same site basically restarts elsewhere -- is very bad form.

Not sure if Micon profited from that, but someone did.

I agree with you 100% and believe he should have been found guilty of another crime, theft. I have no doubt he was fully in control, he was/is the ONLY one making money decisions.

[TwitchySeal]

The Micon I knew is essentially dead, so I don't know what he'd do.

I did think it was shady how original Seals made off with unclaimed balances after 30 days, including balances of people like Jesse Martin who were trying to reset their password and were having trouble doing so.

Micon said he had no control over this, but I felt he was too dismissive.

Giving people 30 days to claim their money and then permanently taking it -- especially when the same site basically restarts elsewhere -- is very bad form.

Not sure if Micon profited from that, but someone did.

I agree with you 100% and believe he should have been found guilty of another crime, theft. I have no doubt he was fully in control, he was/is the ONLY one making money decisions.

I was referring to all the crap that has gone on over the past few year - a handful were discussed here - https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...adiness-Galore I think Micon would of prevented all of these ridiculous things from happening on seals - I still think druff would agree.

Ex: Do you think Micon would run a freeroll funded by seized mult-accounter funds, promote it like crazy, then knowingly unban and allow the original cheaters to play in same freeroll, under same accounts that were caught cheating?

As for Druffs claim, I wasn't aware someone got fucked over on seals during the transition like that.

But your 30 dsy timeline is off.

Seals went down on 2/11/15 ( we know Micons raid/charges from NV state were real)

3/5 they put up a message and spread word that everyone needed to cashout by 5/5

[DonaldTrumpsHairPiece]

I am not up for a debate, I am old, tired and have let it go but the bottom line is Micon controlled the BTC. Micon got what was kept, Micon never gave any evidence to anyone he sold the site, in fact didn't he say he'd jet back there once free to do so? I know of and was affected by his actions. Again I let that go but I honestly could care less what he was like in the past or how well he treated players. Once you turn POS you are then always a POS moving forward in my book.

[TwitchySeal]

I am not up for a debate, I am old, tired and have let it go but the bottom line is Micon controlled the BTC. Micon got what was kept, Micon never gave any evidence to anyone he sold the site, in fact didn't he say he'd jet back there once free to do so? I know of and was affected by his actions. Again I let that go but I honestly could care less what he was like in the past or how well he treated players. Once you turn POS you are then always a POS moving forward in my book.

I feel you DTHP. The whole thing is so complicated - both sites should be condemned for their actions and I regret even trying to use Micon as a comparison.

In other news, props to Betcoin for still crushing Seals weeks after Betcoin dealt their final hand:

 

^^^All sites as of 1/9/18

[Brianpoland]

The BBJ was hit last week at the micros, the site has been pretty good about everything. With such a small pool of players it's worth playing this site if your grinding other sites already -
For poker http://betcoinpoker.ag
For dice and sports betting
https://www.betcoin.ag

I completely trust both sites they have been extremely fast on the casino side for sports betting cash outs and dice - if you like dice it's under the probably fair link at the top right once your signed in. The site is hard to navigate if your not used to it but betcoin has always done alot to upgrade the site. I can't say enough good things about the casino side and the poker side litterally every cash out is done within minutes for me.

[TwitchySeal]

The BBJ was hit last week at the micros, the site has been pretty good about everything. With such a small pool of players it's worth playing this site if your grinding other sites already -
For poker http://betcoinpoker.ag
For dice and sports betting
https://www.betcoin.ag

I completely trust both sites they have been extremely fast on the casino side for sports betting cash outs and dice - if you like dice it's under the probably fair link at the top right once your signed in. The site is hard to navigate if your not used to it but betcoin has always done alot to upgrade the site. I can't say enough good things about the casino side and the poker side litterally every cash out is done within minutes for me.

Didn't take much effort to figure out this is "Brian Poland" and his only motivation to post here is to spam his affiliate link.
Don't click his affiliate link.
Skippynp (aka Brian Poland ) is scum.
Please ban this shill.

Will update thread with Betcoins recent scumminess in the next few days.