Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 47

Thread: My honest assessment of bitcoins

  1. #1
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10151
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,783
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    68007902

    My honest assessment of bitcoins

    I notice there's been a lot of discussion lately on other forums about bitcoins, so I felt I'd weigh in with my own opinion.

    Keep in mind that this is honestly how I feel about them, and it has nothing to do with anything that happened between me and Micon.

    I think they're a cute little science project, used by free-speech-on-the-net nerds who get a hard-on at the thought of using an underground pseudo-currency. They will never catch on with the mainstream for various reasons:

    1) There are too many security vulnerabilities. The massive bitcoin thefts in the short time they've been around is proof of this. Sure, bitcoin supporters will counter with procedures on how to keep them safe, but that's exactly what will keep them out of the mainstream. If you have to be a computer security geek to keep your currency safe, the general public will be terrified of them.

    2) The US government won't put up with it if it gets too big. The reason there hasn't been government interference in bitcoins is primarily because it's still relatively small-time. If it ever really catches on, the government will clamp down on all entities supporting it, such as MtGox, and the whole thing will collapse.

    3) It's somewhat of a pyramid scheme. Ever wonder how certain individuals have $1 million or more worth of bitcoins? Is it because they stupidly invested that much in them? Of course not. Bitcoins are generated, or "mined", and it was designed to be easy to generate them at the very beginning, and getting progressively harder as it went along. It's now so difficult to generate them that it's not even worth your computer's electricity to do so. Here is a good explanation of the bitcoin "mining" situation, and how it's pretty much a pyramid scheme:

    Source: http://www.hightechforum.org/bitcoin...-ponzi-scheme/

    There was another way to obtain bitcoins, but those days are long over. In the early days of bitcoins before they could be had for fractions of a penny, computer geeks with fast graphics processors designed for high end gaming could generate their own bitcoins through a process called “mining.” Since the pool of bitcoin miners were few in the beginning and they all had a statistically equal chance of gaining a bitcoin if they had equivalent computing hardware, it was relatively easy to generate bitcoins. So easy in fact that nearly 3 million bitcoins were generated in 2009 — 13% of the total number of bitcoins allowed. The number of people sharing those 3 million bitcoins were relatively few, because not many people (even hardcore computer and information technology geeks) read cryptography mailing lists.

    So who were the folks that knew about bitcoins in 2009 and had the first crack at getting a significant fraction of those 3 million bitcoins? It was the cryptography geeks. More specifically, the developers who wrote the first bitcoin mining software probably paid themselves by having the first crack at generating bitcoins with almost no competition. It would also be no surprise if one of those developers were the actual person behind the fictitious character “Satoshi Nakamoto” (who actually may or may not be Japanese). I agree with those who bet that he or she is not Japanese, as assuming that identity would only make it harder for him or her to be tracked down.

    We can effectively think of “Satoshi Nakamoto” as being on top of a Ponzi scheme. But unlike physical world Ponzi schemes where the creators almost always end up in jail, the creator of bitcoins is anonymous and went out of his way to use anonymous email accounts through TOR networks to anonymously publish a whitepaper on bitcoins. The next wave of speculators who bought early into the bitcoin scheme and/or tried to generate their own bitcoins at a much slower pace (but still much higher than today) were the next tier in the scheme and they can probably walk away with some nice earnings if they pull out before the bubble bursts. At this late stage when the mainstream news is reporting on bitcoins, we have speculators trying to buy in at extremely high valuations hoping to sell to the “greater fool”.

    Anyway, bitcoins might be fun to play with, but I feel that one would be foolish to take them seriously or accumulate any serious balance of them. If you are fortunate enough to have a lot of bitcoins at the moment, I would sell them all now before the bottom drops out. They are worth nearly $5 each now, and it's highly unlikely that the value will rise significantly at any point.

    What about bitcoin poker? There are two sites offering it. The "big" one has 35 players at the moment. The other has 0 players at the tables right now!

    Why?

    The player pool isn't big enough. It's the same reason that intrastate legalized online poker, such as what was legalized in Washington DC, will never succeed except in the big-population states. You need a REALLY BIG group of potential players for an online poker site to succeed. This is because only a very small percentage is going to be interested in playing online poker, so you need a huge reach to start with if you're going to have an active site. Washington DC, with a population of 600,000, is never going to have a successful online poker site. Bitcoins, with a group of users FAR less than 600,000, is also never going to be a viable currency for online poker.

    Chinamaniac also pointed out on another forum that these small-time bitcoin poker sites could easily be cheating you and/or have terrible security, and he's right. I mean, it's bad enough that we have to trust networks like Merge these days, but to have to trust some anonymous dude who shows up and says, "Hey, here's my poker room. Everyone load your bitcoins here and play!", well... if you don't think this is ripe for cheating, then you learned nothing from the countless online poker scandals that have occurred over the years.

    Bottom line: Bitcoins might be a fun diversion, but they aren't going to make anyone rich, aside from those that already accumulated hundreds of thousands of them for free.

     
    Comments
      
      Sheesfaced: :nailedit

  2. #2
    Diamond chinamaniac's Avatar
    Reputation
    1012
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    On a Plane
    Posts
    7,791
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    68007902
    Totally agree with you , I just don't see why someone would prefer Bitcoins over USD or any currency for that matter UNLESS they are doing shady shit. So for the regular run of the mill everyday Joe I don't see them ever being beneficial

  3. #3
    Diamond DRK Star's Avatar
    Reputation
    1282
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    8,401
    Load Metric
    68007902
    Im just going to park this quote right here for future Lulz

    Quote Originally Posted by micon

    you will eat those words, bitcoin is already big and gonna be huge

  4. #4
    Bronze XteraveX's Avatar
    Reputation
    11
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Eastern Time Zone
    Posts
    181
    Load Metric
    68007902
    Good explanantion of what Bitcoins is and what is likely to happen.

    If Bitcoins were to be owned by a conglomerate of billionaire poker site owners in Malta and backed by the Bank of Malta with reserves of gold behind them i wonder how different things would be. Also an international team of Sicilian & Russian nasty guys to track down hackers and make examples of them as part of the security team. But like you say the U.S. wouldn't like it.

  5. #5
    Platinum devidee's Avatar
    Reputation
    1172
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    4,591
    Load Metric
    68007902

  6. #6
    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
    Reputation
    1402
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10,114
    Blog Entries
    20
    Load Metric
    68007902
    These things will have stints where they go up and down in popularity but I too can't see them ever taking off.

  7. #7
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
    Reputation
    7375
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    33,431
    Load Metric
    68007902
    I wanted to point out that there are no obvious inherent weaknesses for the security model of the coins themselves.

    The thefts that occurred exploited bad architecture decisions made by people who chose to host $60,000 bitcoin wallets on $8 a month VPS servers, to begin with.

    That said, you have to be on acid or from Lake Placid to think bitcoins are a durable method of finance.

    Id rather use bitcoins than PayPal for small transactions, truth be told, but I wont for fuck this trendy bullshit reasons.

  8. #8
    Gold Deal's Avatar
    Reputation
    109
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Mississauga
    Posts
    2,334
    Load Metric
    68007902
    Tough decision. On the one hand, Micon the broke potheaded lame brain that blindly follows every trend possible says they are cool and we should all trust them because he did and after all he is a professional slot machine degen that wisely assess all his investments. Then on the other hand we have bracelet winning, semi-retired poker pro / investor Druff suggesting caution.

  9. #9
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10151
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,783
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    68007902
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    I wanted to point out that there are no obvious inherent weaknesses for the security model of the coins themselves.

    The thefts that occurred exploited bad architecture decisions made by people who chose to host $60,000 bitcoin wallets on $8 a month VPS servers, to begin with.

    That said, you have to be on acid or from Lake Placid to think bitcoins are a durable method of finance.

    Id rather use bitcoins than PayPal for small transactions, truth be told, but I wont for fuck this trendy bullshit reasons.
    A different discussion for a different time, but eBay/Paypal has become so pro-buyer that it has created a big market for scammers. Basically, the scammer buys something from you, pays on PayPal, and then makes up one of various bullshit excuses to get his $ back:

    - He didn't get the item
    - The image was damaged or not as presented
    - The buyer's account was hacked, despite the fact that the shipment was sent TO THE BUYER'S HOME ADDRESS

    PayPal always has the monkeys in their security department ruling for the buyer in such disputes, and you get screwed.

    But back to bitcoins. Yes, the security flaws are in people's bad decisions in choosing storage for bitcoins, but that's exactly why they'll never take off. If it requires any degree of computer security knowledge to keep them secure, the general public will hate them.

    The only reason e-commerce is so big right now is because the consumer has virtually no risk. Bitcoins have, and always will have, a lot of risk for the average person using them, unless they stick to accumulating them in very small quantities.

  10. #10
    Bronze XteraveX's Avatar
    Reputation
    11
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Eastern Time Zone
    Posts
    181
    Load Metric
    68007902
    Devidee,

    your gifs are confusing.... if that's directed at my post, i can assume it's because a country wouldn't be able to get involved in this roguish activity....unless it's a rogue country that benefits highly from internet poker....maybe like Malta.

    --and the poker site owners wouldn't own Bitcoins so much as control it and set the parameters.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Reputation
    1688
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Mar-a-Lago
    Posts
    8,620
    Load Metric
    68007902









    Last edited by tyde; 03-09-2012 at 11:46 AM.

  12. #12
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
    Reputation
    7375
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    33,431
    Load Metric
    68007902
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    I wanted to point out that there are no obvious inherent weaknesses for the security model of the coins themselves.

    The thefts that occurred exploited bad architecture decisions made by people who chose to host $60,000 bitcoin wallets on $8 a month VPS servers, to begin with.

    That said, you have to be on acid or from Lake Placid to think bitcoins are a durable method of finance.

    Id rather use bitcoins than PayPal for small transactions, truth be told, but I wont for fuck this trendy bullshit reasons.
    A different discussion for a different time, but eBay/Paypal has become so pro-buyer that it has created a big market for scammers. Basically, the scammer buys something from you, pays on PayPal, and then makes up one of various bullshit excuses to get his $ back:

    - He didn't get the item
    - The image was damaged or not as presented
    - The buyer's account was hacked, despite the fact that the shipment was sent TO THE BUYER'S HOME ADDRESS

    PayPal always has the monkeys in their security department ruling for the buyer in such disputes, and you get screwed.

    But back to bitcoins. Yes, the security flaws are in people's bad decisions in choosing storage for bitcoins, but that's exactly why they'll never take off. If it requires any degree of computer security knowledge to keep them secure, the general public will hate them.

    The only reason e-commerce is so big right now is because the consumer has virtually no risk. Bitcoins have, and always will have, a lot of risk for the average person using them, unless they stick to accumulating them in very small quantities.

    Agreed 100% about paypal. Note that I said "small transactions". Like if I need to ship a friend a couple of hundred bucks, or if I want to pay someone for some web design work, I'll roll with Paypal, sure.

    What I wont do, fucking well ever, for exactly the reasons you described, is use Paypal to pay for goods or to sell goods or services. The day I walked away from eBay and turned up an Amazon.com Plus account, my lifestyle took a huge upswing.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Reputation
    1688
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Mar-a-Lago
    Posts
    8,620
    Load Metric
    68007902

  14. #14
    Cubic Zirconia
    Reputation
    10
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    40
    Load Metric
    68007902
    I used to wonder why jewdonk had fanboys. Now I'm seeing that he has his moments.

  15. #15
    *** SCAMMER *** Jasep's Avatar
    Reputation
    2
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    @VegasPokerRadio
    Posts
    1,630
    Load Metric
    68007902
    LOLBitcoins, I actually had a bunch of them at one point and never felt like I actually had anything of value, even though I guess by todays market prices I had several hundred dollars worth, but I just gave them away (and continue to) because it just seems very play moneyish to me.

  16. #16
    Platinum devidee's Avatar
    Reputation
    1172
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    4,591
    Load Metric
    68007902
    Quote Originally Posted by XteraveX View Post
    Devidee,

    your gifs are confusing.... if that's directed at my post, i can assume it's because a country wouldn't be able to get involved in this roguish activity....unless it's a rogue country that benefits highly from internet poker....maybe like Malta.

    --and the poker site owners wouldn't own Bitcoins so much as control it and set the parameters.

  17. #17
    NoFraud Poker Room Manager Belly Buster's Avatar
    Reputation
    1346
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    England
    Posts
    3,626
    Load Metric
    68007902
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasep View Post
    LOLBitcoins, I actually had a bunch of them at one point and never felt like I actually had anything of value, even though I guess by todays market prices I had several hundred dollars worth, but I just gave them away (and continue to) because it just seems very play moneyish to me.

     
    Comments
      
      SenseiKreese: +1 for calling out this thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    BTW JACKDANIELS is the first one banned from the thread. He is accusing me of being "duped by a middle aged man who dresses like John Cena"
    #FREEJACK #NEVERFORGET

    NoFraud Online Poker Room: http://nofraud.pokerfraudalert.com:8087. For password resets and reload requests PM me.

  18. #18
    Diamond DRK Star's Avatar
    Reputation
    1282
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    8,401
    Load Metric
    68007902
    In the short term, Micon's words are coming true.

  19. #19
    Diamond PLOL's Avatar
    Reputation
    1069
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,095
    Load Metric
    68007902
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Bottom line: Bitcoins might be a fun diversion, but they aren't going to make anyone rich, aside from those that already accumulated hundreds of thousands of them for free.
    Druff, what are your thoughts on Hurricane Katrina?

     
    Comments
      
      NaturalBornHustler: Epic bump rep kid is BACK
    TRUMP 2024!

    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Just non-stop unrelenting LGBT propaganda being shoved down our throats.

  20. #20
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
    Reputation
    4314
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    21,200
    Load Metric
    68007902
    Quote Originally Posted by PLOL View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Bottom line: Bitcoins might be a fun diversion, but they aren't going to make anyone rich, aside from those that already accumulated hundreds of thousands of them for free.
    Druff, what are your thoughts on Hurricane Katrina?
    "By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's."
    Paul Krugman, New York Times economist, 1998

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. FBI made 20-page report on Bitcoins on April 24, 2012
    By Dan Druff in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 03-14-2015, 09:18 AM
  2. New article about Bitcoins on Reuters
    By Dan Druff in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-02-2012, 02:59 AM
  3. If first dates were honest...
    By DRK Star in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-20-2012, 12:37 PM
  4. More on Bitcoins
    By Sitting Out in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-14-2012, 05:56 PM
  5. Let's be honest about the colors here
    By Dan Druff in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 03-09-2012, 02:44 AM