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Thread: ***OFFICIAL 2017 MLB HOT STOVE THREAD***

  1. #41
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Sanlmar hates Adrian Gonzalez for some reason, so he's always been too hard on him.

    Adrian had a successful tenure in LA for the most part. The Dodgers' postseason struggles weren't his fault. During his first few years, he was incredibly clutch when it came to getting an important late-inning base hit. His overall numbers were excellent, and he played very good defense.

    He was very slow on the basepaths, but you can't have everything.

    The Sox fleeced the Dodgers in that 2012 trade. I'll never understand it. The Dodgers bailed them out of two horrendous contracts (Beckett and Crawford) and one mediocre one (Gonzalez).

    It would be understandable that the Dodgers would take on the full Gonzalez contract, as he still had a lot of value, but to take Beckett and Crawford on top of that made absolutely no sense. They were essentially paying $60m/year for Gonzalez for awhile, because Crawford and Beckett were near-useless.

    Bellinger wasn't expected to be promoted until September 2017, and he wasn't expected to be a starter until 2018. Gonzalez wasn't ready for what happened this year. He had never been injured before. He went down, Bellinger took his job, became a rookie sensation, and it was goodnight Adrian. That had to be tough. Gonzalez also had never played in a World Series, and was highly disappointed that he was left off the roster in the year the Dodgers finally made it. But it was the right move. He had regressed that much.

    I'm guessing some team in need of a 1B will take a shot at him for the Major League minimum. Might as well. But his career is essentially over.

  2. #42
    Platinum GrenadaRoger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Funny trade today between the Dodgers and Braves that amounts to a simple re-allocation of sunk costs. Kemp back to LA for AGonz, Kazmir, Mccarthy, Culberson.

    Trade actually works well for both teams. Dodgers get below the luxury tax level for next season, meanwhile Braves get out of the extra year on kemps deal still left, pay AGonz 20 million to go away (already DFA'd him), and get 1 year flyers on Kazmir n McCarthy to maybe eat some innings for them.
    It is an interesting trade, and I like it.

    Funny how Culbertson was thrown in. I thought he sucked in Colorado, but I got to like him on the Dodgers, as he was one of those enthusiastic, clutch guys who seemed to perform surprisingly well when needed. But I don't think he has the ability to be an everyday player. He's the only one who doesn't have a large contract.

    Amazing how quickly Gonzalez's value plummeted. He's only 35, but seems like he's 40 at this point. He went from a superstar to solid middle-of-lineup guy to useless liability really quickly. He never had injury problems until last year, but obviously that doesn't bode well for his future, hence the DFAing.

    I'm actually glad the Dodgers got rid of him, as he was already a distraction in the playoffs when he was clearly insulted that they were leaving him off the roster. He was going to be a negative clubhouse presence sitting on the bench while watching Bellinger make everyone forget he existed.

    But at least Gonzalez's contract was a remnant from the Colletti regime.

    Kazmir and McCarthy represent failures by the new front office. The sad thing is that neither of these signings even looked good at the time. Both were given $48 million -- Kazmir for 3 years, McCarthy for four. McCarthy was one of those "big potential but always injured" guys, who never end up working out in the long run. Kazmir was simply a has-been, and had his own history of injuries.

    Friedman/Zaidi were too much in small-market mode when signing these contracts -- pretty much from the standpoint of, "We don't have money for a real ace, so let's pay $12-$16 million per year for a guy who might surprise people and become an ace." That thinking can work in a place like Tampa Bay, but is a poor way to spend money in a large market like LA.

    So now they get rid of the final year in those two contracts AND the one of Gonzalez ($22 million, I think), and they get back Kemp, who can actually still be useful.

    Kemp is admittedly dreadful in the outfield, but the guy can still hit.

    They also get back a player who was generally popular with fans in LA. I always thought Kemp got a bum rap with the reports that he was a clubhouse cancer. I watched all of the Dodgers games when he was on the team, and when he was injured, he was always right there on the bench, rooting hard for his teammates to succeed. When the Dodgers got the big hit, nobody was more excited than Kemp. Compare this to AGon who basically sulked.

    Kemp developed his bad reputation because he had a temper and high expectations for himself, and occasionally he would lose control of that. But overall I saw no evidence that he was causing real problems in the clubhouse, and he really did seem like a team player.

    I'm glad he's back. He's not the guy you build the offense around, and he's not worth the money he's being paid, but he's still quite useful, especially if he's acquired in a dead-money trade.
    clever trade financially as the Dodgers effected a refinance---basically, the Dodgers traded $48 million in contracts that counted against this years salary cap for a single contract for about the same total dollars but spread out over 2 years, thus getting the Dodgers under the 2017 salary cap--->resetting the penalty cycle for exceeding...the Dodgers gave up one pitcher that might still have some value, McCarthy, plus a utility player that might turnout like Tayor or Turner (longshot)...the Braves improve their roster some, Dodgers no roster upgrade as they may well release Kemp

    I always thought Gonzales had unique value to the Dodgers because of his appeal to Mexican Americans...the Dodgers must believe Urias will be healed and back soon
    Last edited by GrenadaRoger; 12-17-2017 at 12:09 AM.
    (long before there was a PFA i had my Grenade & Crossbones avatar at DD)

  3. #43
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Sanlmar hates Adrian Gonzalez for some reason, so he's always been too hard on him.
    As the Boston Herald headline indicates, I was not alone in my opinion.

    If I was to be honest, AGon’s demeaner on the field reminded me of Jay Cutler in football. Both undeniably had some skills. Like Cutler though he was paid way too much and had that resting pout face.

    Both Cutler and AGon had pretty numbers. Cutler has the most passing yards ever for the Browns, I think. Neither won anything. Both are hated. It is revealing how AGon managed to find himself dropped in the middle of the Red Sox run of 3 World Series but dodge a ring during his brief tenure.

    Most important for Boston fans, he never let on that he gave a shit. AGon was like JD Drew or Wade Boggs. NY or Boston fans don’t tolerate that shite.

    Which brings me my derail

    Mike Francesa signed off for the last time 2 days ago. Mike and the Mad Dog on WFAN. Epic. Great 30 for 30 piece that gives a glimpse into what East Coast sports fans are about. Mike & Mike were talented and fun but you need an audience that thirsts for that passion too. That audience doesn’t exist in LA.

    This gives you an insight why Druff can’t fathom the AGon hate. He isn’t wired like an East Coast fan. He is a product of his sad numbed out environment. AGon was fine in his world. What an unfortunate quality of life.

    When the Sawks lose a game in the 9th inning in May you would think the world was ending and the Sawks would never win another game the rest of the year if you listened to Boston sports talk. The anger and the vitriol is a cultural phenomenon. I am so lucky to live here.

    I could pull 660AM on my early morning drive. Don Imus. I used to listen to Mike and the Mad Dog summers on Cape Cod as the station reached there. Great stuff. Great fans. Sad day. Instant nostalgia.

  4. #44
    Silver varys's Avatar
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    Cutler hasn’t made it to Cleveland yet
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyde
    you're more consumed with accumulating wealth than achieving spiritual enlightenment

  5. #45
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by varys View Post
    Cutler hasn’t made it to Cleveland yet
    That’s so funny how I conflated the Bears and the Browns. I think of them as the same team. Losers

  6. #46
    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Sanlmar hates Adrian Gonzalez for some reason, so he's always been too hard on him.
    As the Boston Herald headline indicates, I was not alone in my opinion.

    If I was to be honest, AGon’s demeaner on the field reminded me of Jay Cutler in football. Both undeniably had some skills. Like Cutler though he was paid way too much and had that resting pout face.

    Both Cutler and AGon had pretty numbers. Cutler has the most passing yards ever for the Browns, I think. Neither won anything. Both are hated. It is revealing how AGon managed to find himself dropped in the middle of the Red Sox run of 3 World Series but dodge a ring during his brief tenure.

    Most important for Boston fans, he never let on that he gave a shit. AGon was like JD Drew or Wade Boggs. NY or Boston fans don’t tolerate that shite.

    Which brings me my derail

    Mike Francesa signed off for the last time 2 days ago. Mike and the Mad Dog on WFAN. Epic. Great 30 for 30 piece that gives a glimpse into what East Coast sports fans are about. Mike & Mike were talented and fun but you need an audience that thirsts for that passion too. That audience doesn’t exist in LA.

    This gives you an insight why Druff can’t fathom the AGon hate. He isn’t wired like an East Coast fan. He is a product of his sad numbed out environment. AGon was fine in his world. What an unfortunate quality of life.

    When the Sawks lose a game in the 9th inning in May you would think the world was ending and the Sawks would never win another game the rest of the year if you listened to Boston sports talk. The anger and the vitriol is a cultural phenomenon. I am so lucky to live here.

    I could pull 660AM on my early morning drive. Don Imus. I used to listen to Mike and the Mad Dog summers on Cape Cod as the station reached there. Great stuff. Great fans. Sad day. Instant nostalgia.


    Jesus, shut it down Tahmmy from Quinzee. Manny openly didn't give a shit, but hey he was playing like an MVP and the team was winning, so it was just Manny being Manny.

    There's no difference between Boston/NY fans and fans in the rest of the country, besides the Boston/NY fans THINKING they are somehow more hardcore fans.

     
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      ToasterOven: tahmmy from quinzee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. #47
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post

    As the Boston Herald headline indicates, I was not alone in my opinion.

    If I was to be honest, AGon’s demeaner on the field reminded me of Jay Cutler in football. Both undeniably had some skills. Like Cutler though he was paid way too much and had that resting pout face.

    Both Cutler and AGon had pretty numbers. Cutler has the most passing yards ever for the Browns, I think. Neither won anything. Both are hated. It is revealing how AGon managed to find himself dropped in the middle of the Red Sox run of 3 World Series but dodge a ring during his brief tenure.

    Most important for Boston fans, he never let on that he gave a shit. AGon was like JD Drew or Wade Boggs. NY or Boston fans don’t tolerate that shite.

    Which brings me my derail

    Mike Francesa signed off for the last time 2 days ago. Mike and the Mad Dog on WFAN. Epic. Great 30 for 30 piece that gives a glimpse into what East Coast sports fans are about. Mike & Mike were talented and fun but you need an audience that thirsts for that passion too. That audience doesn’t exist in LA.

    This gives you an insight why Druff can’t fathom the AGon hate. He isn’t wired like an East Coast fan. He is a product of his sad numbed out environment. AGon was fine in his world. What an unfortunate quality of life.

    When the Sawks lose a game in the 9th inning in May you would think the world was ending and the Sawks would never win another game the rest of the year if you listened to Boston sports talk. The anger and the vitriol is a cultural phenomenon. I am so lucky to live here.

    I could pull 660AM on my early morning drive. Don Imus. I used to listen to Mike and the Mad Dog summers on Cape Cod as the station reached there. Great stuff. Great fans. Sad day. Instant nostalgia.


    Jesus, shut it down Tahmmy from Quinzee. Manny openly didn't give a shit, but hey he was playing like an MVP and the team was winning, so it was just Manny being Manny.

    There's no difference between Boston/NY fans and fans in the rest of the country, besides the Boston/NY fans THINKING they are somehow more hardcore fans.
    Manny was the greatest right hand hitter I ever saw. There is an argument for all time.

    Manny and AGon in same conversation is sacrilege

    Manny wore his heart on his sleeve when he played. AGon was poker faced.

    Manny gave a shit but was one of the dumbest men to ever wear a baseball jersey. A savant with the bat but mildly retahded in life.

    Watching a mental child play the game was comical and frustrating but it was honest.

  8. #48
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    It is highly likely Matt Kemp will be traded. Notice the Dodgers have not made any announcements about Matt being part of their team again, aside from coldly announcing the trade and saying there were more moves to come.

    Kemp himself has been quiet.

    Clearly they told him that he will be shipped elsewhere, and not to get too comfortable.

    If Kemp was really expected to wear Dodger blue in 2018, this would be a fairly big deal, at least from the nostalgia angle. But they're keeping it low-key for a reason.

  9. #49
    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    It is highly likely Matt Kemp will be traded. Notice the Dodgers have not made any announcements about Matt being part of their team again, aside from coldly announcing the trade and saying there were more moves to come.

    Kemp himself has been quiet.

    Clearly they told him that he will be shipped elsewhere, and not to get too comfortable.

    If Kemp was really expected to wear Dodger blue in 2018, this would be a fairly big deal, at least from the nostalgia angle. But they're keeping it low-key for a reason.
    Kemp is (and has been for awhile) in that group of 10-15 veteran players who only really have any value at DH anymore. Its been funny how Kemp can't seem to make it into the AL. LAD-SD-ATL-LAD again. Throw his tired legs a break and let him DH for Seattle or someone.

  10. #50
    Platinum herbertstemple's Avatar
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    Poor guy, he used to be a good ballplayer.


    Dodgers Receiving Minimal Trade Interest In Matt Kemp


    https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/...matt-kemp.html

    Including prospects as an inducement to trade a player must really suck if you're the player.

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    Diamond mulva's Avatar
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    lol @ possibly eating 40 mil and releasing kemp.

    i'm not ready to write off agonz. only bad year year was due to an injury.

    no reason to think he can't put up 15-20 dingers 80 rbi's, 280 avg and a good obp with a full time gig...maybe even more. last time i looked clubs pay big multi yr money these kind of players. the redsox paid that scrub moreland over 13mil over 2 years to do that w/ a 240 avg without getting on base. i have no idea why they would do this.
    Quote Originally Posted by bottomset_69 View Post
    Johnny Manziel will be the 1st pick in the draft. I truly believe not only will Johnny Manziel be rookie of the year, quite possibly he will be MVP as his style will shock defensive coordinators. Manziel may only be 6 feet tall, but he has size 15 feet. And he has HUGE hands. I know some NFL scouts so I know what I am talking about.



  12. #52
    Plutonium simpdog's Avatar
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    SF Giants get Evan Longoria from the TB Rays for Christian Arroyo, Denard Span, Matt Krook and Stephen Woods.

  13. #53
    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpdog View Post
    SF Giants get Evan Longoria from the TB Rays for Christian Arroyo, Denard Span, Matt Krook and Stephen Woods.

    Giants apparently forgot what happened last year. Or maybe they think they were just 1 solid 3B away from 70 wins.

    That said, Longoria is signed to a very team-friendly long term deal. Even if his output from here on out is what he did in a down year last season, he's still worth the money until his defense starts to fade.

    I would have thought the Rays could get more back for him. Arroyo has been the highest touted prospect for the Giants the last couple years, he'll ultimately decide who won this trade, unless Longoria falls off a cliff soon. Span is basically negative value in return, an old slap-hitting CF who doesnt have the athleticism to play CF anymore. A singles hitting corner-OF doesn't have much of a place in the game anymore, unless you're hitting like Ichiro in his prime. The 2 pitchers seem like lotto tickets, and nothing to write home about.
    Last edited by gut; 12-20-2017 at 11:31 AM.

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    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
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    Anyone notice the very recent trend of signing bonuses in MLB contracts? What kind of screwy accounting is going on now? Methinks a bonus doesn't count towards that soft-cap (aka luxury tax), but I don't know for sure. Look at Santana's just signed deal:
    Carlos Santana contract breakdown:
    $10M signing bonus
    $15M in year 1
    $17M in year 2
    $17.5M in year 3
    $17.5M option

    With MLB contracts fully guaranteed, I don't understand the allowance of a signing bonus. if my theory is true, what would a stop a cash-rich owner from signing a big free agent next year to a 3yr/$100m contract with a $70m signing bonus and then 10m a year?

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    Plutonium big dick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpdog View Post
    SF Giants get Evan Longoria from the TB Rays for Christian Arroyo, Denard Span, Matt Krook and Stephen Woods.
    He is top 10 all of baseball

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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Anyone notice the very recent trend of signing bonuses in MLB contracts? What kind of screwy accounting is going on now? Methinks a bonus doesn't count towards that soft-cap (aka luxury tax), but I don't know for sure. Look at Santana's just signed deal:
    Carlos Santana contract breakdown:
    $10M signing bonus
    $15M in year 1
    $17M in year 2
    $17.5M in year 3
    $17.5M option

    With MLB contracts fully guaranteed, I don't understand the allowance of a signing bonus. if my theory is true, what would a stop a cash-rich owner from signing a big free agent next year to a 3yr/$100m contract with a $70m signing bonus and then 10m a year?
    you know theyre doing all sorts of accounting shenanigans...makes zero sense...surprised MLB hasn't caught onto that yet...Bryce harper 10/500 with 400 of that being in a signing bonus...watch all sorta shit hit the fan then...

     
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      gut: right?

  17. #57
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbertstemple View Post
    Poor guy, he used to be a good ballplayer.


    Dodgers Receiving Minimal Trade Interest In Matt Kemp


    https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/...matt-kemp.html

    Including prospects as an inducement to trade a player must really suck if you're the player.
    I'm very surprised an AL team doesn't want to take a shot with him as DH, provided the Dodgers eat enough money.

    He's hit 23+ HR every year since 2009, aside from injury years of 2013 (73 AB) and 2017 (438 AB). But even in 2017, he hit 19 HR and hit .276/.318/.463. Worst batting average since 2010 was .265.

    Will be 33 years old for most of the 2018 season.

    In fact, if the Dodgers can't trade him, I don't see why they don't just keep him around as a part-time starter or bench player.

    I just think releasing him would be a big mistake at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by simpdog View Post
    SF Giants get Evan Longoria from the TB Rays for Christian Arroyo, Denard Span, Matt Krook and Stephen Woods.

    Giants apparently forgot what happened last year. Or maybe they think they were just 1 solid 3B away from 70 wins.

    That said, Longoria is signed to a very team-friendly long term deal. Even if his output from here on out is what he did in a down year last season, he's still worth the money until his defense starts to fade.

    I would have thought the Rays could get more back for him. Arroyo has been the highest touted prospect for the Giants the last couple years, he'll ultimately decide who won this trade, unless Longoria falls off a cliff soon. Span is basically negative value in return, an old slap-hitting CF who doesnt have the athleticism to play CF anymore. A singles hitting corner-OF doesn't have much of a place in the game anymore, unless you're hitting like Ichiro in his prime. The 2 pitchers seem like lotto tickets, and nothing to write home about.
    be interesting to see how that works out but yeah think your thoughts are pretty spot on...always thought the rays were pretty good about getting decent value when they flip their assets...maybe I'm wrong about that...

    surprised they get rid of longoria on a team friendly deal even with their financials being some of the weakest in MLB...

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    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
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    Hot stove still not hot. Not a surprise, this is a tough year to be a free agent. The big spenders are trying to reset their luxury tax obligations....Dodgers don't really have any holes and don't need to sign anyone outside of cheap relievers. Yankees had Stanton fall into their lap (thanks, Jeets!)so that limits their finances. Red Sox just re-signed their own 1B as opposed to overpaying Hosmer (smart move).

    Speaking of Hosmer, those "big 3" Royals bats are probably facing a harsh reality that despite what their agents say, they are all flawed players. Cain is 2 years away from being Denard Span 2.0, Hosmer ultimately is a 1B with very little power, Moustakas at least is coming off of a career year, but his career OPS+ is still that of a slightly below-average hitter. I doubt any of these guys are getting 6/120 or whatever insanity they might be asking for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    Hot stove still not hot. Not a surprise, this is a tough year to be a free agent. The big spenders are trying to reset their luxury tax obligations....Dodgers don't really have any holes and don't need to sign anyone outside of cheap relievers. Yankees had Stanton fall into their lap (thanks, Jeets!)so that limits their finances. Red Sox just re-signed their own 1B as opposed to overpaying Hosmer (smart move).

    Speaking of Hosmer, those "big 3" Royals bats are probably facing a harsh reality that despite what their agents say, they are all flawed players. Cain is 2 years away from being Denard Span 2.0, Hosmer ultimately is a 1B with very little power, Moustakas at least is coming off of a career year, but his career OPS+ is still that of a slightly below-average hitter. I doubt any of these guys are getting 6/120 or whatever insanity they might be asking for.
    you think any of those guys go back to KC?

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