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Thread: Ever wanted to see God play chess? Boy do I have a link for you.

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    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    Ever wanted to see God play chess? Boy do I have a link for you.

    Google's AlphaZero Machine Learning program learned the total human history of Chess in 4 hours then beat the strongest chess engine on the market.



    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1712.01815.pdf

    Some demo games are at the bottom of the doc.

     
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      hongkonger: wow
      
      Daly: AlphaZero -1000
      
      duped_samaritan: And I thought raw HHs were a pain to read.
    Last edited by sonatine; 12-07-2017 at 10:22 AM.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  2. #2
    Yep.

    No need to be concerned about AI, fellas.

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    Inaugural Spring Classic Champion HoodedN's Avatar
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    I thought Todd was god?

     
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      Onestep: he is and always will be

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Google's AlphaZero Machine Learning program learned the total human history of Chess in 4 hours then beat the strongest chess engine on the market.

    100 times out of 100 games.
    There were 72 draws, it won 28 times. Still incredibly impressive tho.

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    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Google's AlphaZero Machine Learning program learned the total human history of Chess in 4 hours then beat the strongest chess engine on the market.

    100 times out of 100 games.
    There were 72 draws, it won 28 times. Still incredibly impressive tho.

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    Fuck me, I skimmed, sorry. I actually woke up today wondering how the hell 100 won games was even possible and now I have my answer.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Our work here is near complete. Integrated into huminoid robots and almost all jobs are replaced.

  7. #7
    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    Real talk btw, these were also 1m per move games. I think if you bump that up, the margin of victory could go through the roof for AlphaZero.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  8. #8
    I haven't studied chess in years, so I'm not familiar with Stockfish, but I read that Google took away its opening book for this study. Which might level the playing field and all, except Stockfish was designed to use that opening book, so they deliberately picked a gimped opponent.

    I mentioned before how OpenAI basically lied about the competency of their video game bot, and I also observed some shenanigans with the HUNLHE bot at Carnegie Mellon.

    Machine learning is fascinating, don't get me wrong, but these researchers need to chill the fuck out and stop pressing their thumb on the scale.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SrslySirius View Post
    I haven't studied chess in years, so I'm not familiar with Stockfish, but I read that Google took away its opening book for this study. Which might level the playing field and all, except Stockfish was designed to use that opening book, so they deliberately picked a gimped opponent.

    I mentioned before how OpenAI basically lied about the competency of their video game bot, and I also observed some shenanigans with the HUNLHE bot at Carnegie Mellon.

    Machine learning is fascinating, don't get me wrong, but these researchers need to chill the fuck out and stop pressing their thumb on the scale.

    In the 10 examples listed, Stockfish was playing well established opening books. Can you provide an url?
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  10. #10
    Gold duped_samaritan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SrslySirius View Post
    I also observed some shenanigans with the HUNLHE bot at Carnegie Mellon.
    Care to elaborate? (or link)

  11. #11
    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    Also I ran these through stockfish personally and by the time middle-game started, these positions were often in perfect equilibrium, which was frankly haunting.

    If the opening books had been gimped in favor of AlphaZero, we would be seeing consistent and significant positional if not material advantages manifesting well before middle-game started to evolve in earnest.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    In the 10 examples listed, Stockfish was playing well established opening books. Can you provide an url?
    https://www.chess.com/news/view/goog...100-game-match

    The player with most strident objections to the conditions of the match was GM Hikaru Nakamura. While a heated discussion is taking place online about processing power of the two sides, Nakamura thought that was a secondary issue.

    The American called the match "dishonest" and pointed out that Stockfish's methodology requires it to have an openings book for optimal performance. While he doesn't think the ultimate winner would have changed, Nakamura thought the size of the winning score would be mitigated.

    "I am pretty sure God himself could not beat Stockfish 75 percent of the time with White without certain handicaps," he said about the 25 wins and 25 draws AlphaZero scored with the white pieces.
    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post
    Care to elaborate? (or link)
    For one thing, Claudico got crushed by the human team by 9.6bb/100, but the researchers called it a draw, claiming that the winrate wasn't large enough to be statistically significant. lol give me a break.

    Libratus was, by all accounts, horrifyingly good. Probably unbeatable. But it did apparently have a limping strategy with some glaring weaknesses, and the human team felt that formulating a strategy around this was their best chance of winning, or at least keeping it close as possible. The AI team caught wind of this, so they just reprogrammed the bot to never limp. In the middle of the competition. lol

     
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      varys: Jesus
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  13. #13
    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    Fucking Naka.

    Of the 10 games, I just randomly picked 4 of them, making sure 2 of them included Stockfish as white.

    In every single game, by move 12, Stockfish considered the game to be in either perfect equilibrium or white to have a .1 or .2 piece advantage, and at least one of these was with Stockfish as white, who went on to face a significant disadvantage when entering end game.

    If Stockfish's opening books were in any way crippled here, by move 12 it would have found itself screwed, blued, and tattooed.

    If someone has the CPU power to let early middle game positions in these games really cook for a few hours and discovers that somehow, AlphaZero was sitting on some deep-future advantage, that would be a significant booster to Naka's argument.

    Otherwise really he's just being an attention whore, the case for which is only strengthened by the deficit of sympathetic opinions.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  14. #14
    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    So I read GM Larry Kaufman's comments which make a bit more sense than Naka's, which probably werent reported particularly well. Basically he seems to be saying that somehow AlphaZero built its own opening books and that somehow Stockfish couldnt hang because it's weak without 'established' book openings? Again I dont see how Stockfish can be so comfortable with its middle game positions if thats the case.

    What I found more interesting was the inference that the distributed processing powering behind AlphaZero gave it an advantage. I think there is much to be said there in a 1m per move match. But again without more information, it really could just be sour grapes.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by devidee View Post
    Yep.

    No need to be concerned about AI, fellas.
    These games have a huge, but very defined, sample space. It's an impressive advance machine learning. But unless your job is playing chess, it's not replacing you.

     
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      Deal: Did you read the article?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyB View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by devidee View Post
    Yep.

    No need to be concerned about AI, fellas.
    These games have a huge, but very defined, sample space. It's an impressive advance machine learning. But unless your job is playing chess, it's not replacing you.
    AI taking away jobs is the least of my concerns.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by devidee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyB View Post

    These games have a huge, but very defined, sample space. It's an impressive advance machine learning. But unless your job is playing chess, it's not replacing you.
    AI taking away jobs is the least of my concerns.
    Am I right in thinking the Jews are higher on your list?

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    Platinum PLOL's Avatar
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    Honestly I donít think chess would be that hard for a human to master. Thereís 16 pieces on a total of 64 squares. That equates to a total of 1,024 different possible combinations. While itís much easier for a computer to memorize 1,024 combinations I donít think itís impossible for a human to do it. Not easy, but not impossible either.

     
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      anchordraw: Your knowledge of chess, is well, quite evident
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by PLOL View Post
    Honestly I donít think chess would be that hard for a human to master. Thereís 16 pieces on a total of 64 squares. That equates to a total of 1,024 different possible combinations. While itís much easier for a computer to memorize 1,024 combinations I donít think itís impossible for a human to do it. Not easy, but not impossible either.
    I buy it. I mean, it ain't checkers, but its on a checkerboard, ffs.
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