Divided we code: Conservatives afraid to admit political views in Silicon Valley

[v12cl]

Indians are just the absolute worst coders in the world AINEC.

They are reasonable at boilerplate follow-a-process lowest-common-denominator IT support, but just fucking terrible at software dev.

its also worth noting that they are the single most egregiously sexist and racist group in the workforce.

Need to find you a Sikh.

[abrown83]

No one believes that women can't code. Women "can't" code because they aren't drawn to these type of jobs.

To zoom out for a second, the whole 'glass ceiling in tech' argument seems to be pure Linkedin-clickbait. I have never, in my life, worked in a shop that judged women for anything but their merits.

That said, I have worked in Fortune-20 shops for the vast majority of my career.

As for women being drawn to or repelled by code work, or any other IT role, again I see no indication that this is true.

Racism, on the other hand, yyyyyikes..

Yea, if you take the bottom 75% of IT workers, they are the nut low.

Sys Ops and Admins being the worst, followed by your average IT tech at a midsize company, so on and so forth with Devs falling somewhere in the middle.

I think women aren’t attracted to the positions because the average worker is a complete d bag, and women seem to not have that level of unearned elitism.

Literally, when I hire any IT related staff (Devs, Sys Admins mostly) I am clear if they come in with any elitist attitude or treat clients the way most IT people treat customers I will fire them on the spot.

[devidee]

Human coders will be obsolete soon anyway.

This I doubt. Certainly not soon. And not before truckers will be obsolete.

90% of coders are google and patch monkeys.

They gone.

[ftpjesus]

http://money.cnn.com/technology/divi...-conservatives

This isn't just hyperbole.

I have friends who work in Silicon Valley who have told me the exact same stuff as said in this video. Basically, if you admit you're a conservative, or if you dare speak out about anything from a conservative point of view, you will get pushed out of the company and fired for some flimsy reason.

LOL ideological intolerance

Yep the hypocrisy of the left.. They're all for freedom of speech etc as long as you agree with their political thoughts and leanings.. If you don't STFU or youll be shit on and run out of the company..

[sonatine]

To zoom out for a second, the whole 'glass ceiling in tech' argument seems to be pure Linkedin-clickbait. I have never, in my life, worked in a shop that judged women for anything but their merits.

That said, I have worked in Fortune-20 shops for the vast majority of my career.

As for women being drawn to or repelled by code work, or any other IT role, again I see no indication that this is true.

Racism, on the other hand, yyyyyikes..

Yea, if you take the bottom 75% of IT workers, they are the nut low.

Sys Ops and Admins being the worst, followed by your average IT tech at a midsize company, so on and so forth with Devs falling somewhere in the middle.

I think women aren’t attracted to the positions because the average worker is a complete d bag, and women seem to not have that level of unearned elitism.

Literally, when I hire any IT related staff (Devs, Sys Admins mostly) I am clear if they come in with any elitist attitude or treat clients the way most IT people treat customers I will fire them on the spot.

Its also worth pointing out that to be successful _at all_ in IT, you need to be fairly aggressive in how you manage your career.

Perhaps the case can be made that women suffer for lack of that sort of asshole-gene, eg they are so used to having to avoid being perceived as a 'bitch' that they dont pursue vital opportunities.

I know that had I not been fairly mercenary with regards to jumping around and really making that extra effort to really slay at what I do, I would be right there with my DevOps friends, dying a little every day in a cube while I suffer for someone elses mistakes.

But yeah beyond that, once you break through that top 25% of actual talent and communication skills, the last thing people will be noticing is your gender, much less political affiliation.

The fact that conservatives even consider discussing politics in the workplace is likely the root cause of their displeasure, not their political beliefs.

[Dan Druff]

sonatine, do you really believe that, as a whole, women aren't less suited/attracted to coding itself?

I don't know how you can say that.

While there are obviously outliers, most women -- even very smart ones -- just do not have an interest in that sort of field, and it doesn't typically come from a place of fear of acceptance.

Perhaps some would-be female coders are pushed away from pursuing that line of work by ignorant parents or others who state things like, "That's not a job for a girl", but there's such an astoundingly high male-to-female ratio in coding that it's got to be much more than that.

Also this should also apply to other non-physical, traditionally male career choices, but it doesn't. All of these careers (think medicine, law, science) have been heavily penetrated by women over the past 60 or so years, despite the same initially unwelcoming environments that tech is accused of having.

Why is it so difficult to believe that there are some innate differences in the male and female brain, and some of those differences steer each gender toward certain interests?

Poker is another one, btw.

Let's say we remove from poker all of the hostility and degrading behavior toward women, and we magically scrub it from everyone's memory. Do you think the game eventually goes to 50-50 male and female? There's no chance.

[Dan Druff]

And yet the second conservative coders open their mouths, they claim women cant code right because their pussies break once a month.

When the right wing is willing to clean its own shop of xenophobia, homophobia, religious extremism, class warfare, and stone ignorance, they can start holding other people accountable for intolerance.

Meanwhile, actual conservatives are doing great in Silicon Valley working in finance and management and spending their downtime laughing their wealthy asses off at the yokels demanding code jobs who dont want to sit near icky gays or immigrants or heathens who would force bakers to cook cakes for people whose sexual orientation they dont agree with.

Great thread tho, Rush Druffbaugh strikes again.

Back to the original point, though.

Conservatives cannot open their mouths. Even a conservative whose views are not extreme will not be welcomed. There is such a culture of hatred of conservatives in Silicon Valley that even admitting you voted for Trump is a potentially career-killing move.

The coastal elite left has unfortunately come to the belief that left=good/compassionate and right=evil/selfish that you're basically the instant enemy if you even admit to a political identification to the right. You are deemed a horrible human being, and they just want to get rid of you.

Do you really believe that a softspoken, non-extreme conservative could openly state his views in Silicon Valley and not suffer severe career repercussions? Or is your above twisted diatribe just a way to shift the blame around and avoid discussing the crippling ideological intolerance that exists at the companies which are increasingly controlling all of the information we see?

[OSA]

Those that say that women don't have that aggressive gene has never been on a 100+ person sales floor.

[Tellafriend]

Those that say that women don't have that aggressive gene has never been on a 100+ person sales floor.

Speaking of which, how's the search for work going?

[sonatine]

Those that say that women don't have that aggressive gene has never been on a 100+ person sales floor.

not talking about personality or style, talking about doing things like walking away from a good gig so you can take a better gig that pays 5% more.


also sales is a weird beast to begin with.

[donkdowndonedied]

To zoom out for a second, the whole 'glass ceiling in tech' argument seems to be pure Linkedin-clickbait. I have never, in my life, worked in a shop that judged women for anything but their merits.

That said, I have worked in Fortune-20 shops for the vast majority of my career.

As for women being drawn to or repelled by code work, or any other IT role, again I see no indication that this is true.

Racism, on the other hand, yyyyyikes..

Yea, if you take the bottom 75% of IT workers, they are the nut low.

Sys Ops and Admins being the worst, followed by your average IT tech at a midsize company, so on and so forth with Devs falling somewhere in the middle.

I think women aren’t attracted to the positions because the average worker is a complete d bag, and women seem to not have that level of unearned elitism.

Literally, when I hire any IT related staff (Devs, Sys Admins mostly) I am clear if they come in with any elitist attitude or treat clients the way most IT people treat customers I will fire them on the spot.

Meh, women are also not drawn to BTC. I know a lot of early adopters. Why are none of them women?

It is funny.. women claim that the tech men are keeping them out of their jobs. These guys that have no real social skills have now done what MDs and JDs haven't.

Developers vary a ton in that it is a job a lot of people can do ok being a "developer" and work for some random company implementing business logic. Then there are guys who make truly novel things and are basically smarter than anyone else in the company. There are huge differences in these people. *REAL* developers often move on to either managment or start their own business. You have to have a quite high IQ to get a CS degree from a competitive school. You can me meh-ok to admin a network computer and shit.

I had a job in IT and it was horrible having to deal with stupid people who couldn't understand little things. Absolutely. Horrible. FUck that. As part of the same job for a different client, we ended up fixing up their legal documents because inhouse counsel guy was shit (and we got to bill).

If anything, it is the disdain seen for most "techs" that'd keep people out of "IT" but it is LOL to confuse IT people with all developers. THe desire for people to be developers feeds whole industries outside of the normal education realm. These jobs are not undesirable. LOL.

[sonatine]

*REAL* developers often move on to either managment

you know whats funny, this is totally true for developers but ive yet to meet a single systems admin/engineer who 'graduated' from his craft into management and lived to tell the tail.

ive seen it happen countless times and every single time they either quit or intentionally get fired.

[donkdowndonedied]

*REAL* developers often move on to either managment

you know whats funny, this is totally true for developers but ive yet to meet a single systems admin/engineer who 'graduated' from his craft into management and lived to tell the tail.

ive seen it happen countless times and every single time they either quit or intentionally get fired.

In general guys who become system admins never grow out of liking computer's for being computers. Developers get into computers because of what computers can do, or because it is something taught at their university. Even the admins who have CS degrees etc, are probably not as sharp and thats why they ended up getting into that stuff. Although this doesn't really go into guys who get like those business IT degrees. I've never worked with or known them so <shrug>.

Basically if you are very smart and young, you see a computer as sexy thing because you can make it do all this stuff. You see that beauty in it. This sort of thinking leads to all sorts of places that "Well let me check his permissions first" will never.

Honestly IT people are often shit upon because they're seen as only being able to do that... and often by people who are completely clueless in their own right. Awful job. I did it for a bunch of PHDs. They were fine. It was the stupid secretary and her assistant relative that were the pain in the ass.

[sonatine]

two interesting points,

1) lol network admins because i meet about a billion network/neteng goons and none of them even know what BGP stands for and they allllll got into it because they heard it was a thing and didnt want to be dealing drugs all their lives


2) IT people also get shit on because once upon a time people hired a dba, a systems admin, and a coder as three distinct roles and now people are expected to be great at all three while earning pretty much what any one of those roles paid for a mid-tier position in the early 2000's.


bonus point) lol 'scrums' gtfo.

[DJ_Chaps]

And yet the second conservative coders open their mouths, they claim women cant code right because their pussies break once a month.

When the right wing is willing to clean its own shop of xenophobia, homophobia, religious extremism, class warfare, and stone ignorance, they can start holding other people accountable for intolerance.

Meanwhile, actual conservatives are doing great in Silicon Valley working in finance and management and spending their downtime laughing their wealthy asses off at the yokels demanding code jobs who dont want to sit near icky gays or immigrants or heathens who would force bakers to cook cakes for people whose sexual orientation they dont agree with.

Great thread tho, Rush Druffbaugh strikes again.

a lil overboard with this troll post, no?

[herbertstemple]

Those that say that women don't have that aggressive gene has never been on a 100+ person sales floor.

When women are selling, they can lie their asses off. That's what they are really good at.

[sonatine]

And yet the second conservative coders open their mouths, they claim women cant code right because their pussies break once a month.

When the right wing is willing to clean its own shop of xenophobia, homophobia, religious extremism, class warfare, and stone ignorance, they can start holding other people accountable for intolerance.

Meanwhile, actual conservatives are doing great in Silicon Valley working in finance and management and spending their downtime laughing their wealthy asses off at the yokels demanding code jobs who dont want to sit near icky gays or immigrants or heathens who would force bakers to cook cakes for people whose sexual orientation they dont agree with.

Great thread tho, Rush Druffbaugh strikes again.

a lil overboard with this troll post, no?

dish can you smile at chaps or something so we can move past this?

[DJ_Chaps]

rude

[MumblesBadly]

sonatine, do you really believe that, as a whole, women aren't less suited/attracted to coding itself?

I don't know how you can say that.

While there are obviously outliers, most women -- even very smart ones -- just do not have an interest in that sort of field, and it doesn't typically come from a place of fear of acceptance.

Perhaps some would-be female coders are pushed away from pursuing that line of work by ignorant parents or others who state things like, "That's not a job for a girl", but there's such an astoundingly high male-to-female ratio in coding that it's got to be much more than that.

Also this should also apply to other non-physical, traditionally male career choices, but it doesn't. All of these careers (think medicine, law, science) have been heavily penetrated by women over the past 60 or so years, despite the same initially unwelcoming environments that tech is accused of having.

Why is it so difficult to believe that there are some innate differences in the male and female brain, and some of those differences steer each gender toward certain interests?

Poker is another one, btw.

Let's say we remove from poker all of the hostility and degrading behavior toward women, and we magically scrub it from everyone's memory. Do you think the game eventually goes to 50-50 male and female? There's no chance.

A relative of mine works in real estate development, and has worked in or with title insurance companies for over a decade. We recently discussed how the overwhelming majority of title examiners in those companies are women. Being a title insurance examiner requires an incredible attention to detail. Being a good coder requires attention to detail, but the field is dominated by males. So, if Druff is correct, what's is likely to be the difference between those types of jobs that would result in such polar opposite gender populations

[Belly Buster]

sonatine, do you really believe that, as a whole, women aren't less suited/attracted to coding itself?

I don't know how you can say that.

While there are obviously outliers, most women -- even very smart ones -- just do not have an interest in that sort of field, and it doesn't typically come from a place of fear of acceptance.

Perhaps some would-be female coders are pushed away from pursuing that line of work by ignorant parents or others who state things like, "That's not a job for a girl", but there's such an astoundingly high male-to-female ratio in coding that it's got to be much more than that.

Also this should also apply to other non-physical, traditionally male career choices, but it doesn't. All of these careers (think medicine, law, science) have been heavily penetrated by women over the past 60 or so years, despite the same initially unwelcoming environments that tech is accused of having.

Why is it so difficult to believe that there are some innate differences in the male and female brain, and some of those differences steer each gender toward certain interests?

Poker is another one, btw.

Let's say we remove from poker all of the hostility and degrading behavior toward women, and we magically scrub it from everyone's memory. Do you think the game eventually goes to 50-50 male and female? There's no chance.

A relative of mine works in real estate development, and has worked in or with title insurance companies for over a decade. We recently discussed how the overwhelming majority of title examiners in those companies are women. Being a title insurance examiner requires an incredible attention to detail. Being a good coder requires attention to detail, but the field is dominated by males. So, if Druff is correct, what's is likely to be the difference between those types of jobs that would result in such polar opposite gender populations

Honestly Mumbles you sound quite serious, but JFC if you can't tell the difference then there is literally no hope for you.