*** OFFICIAL *** 2017-18 NBA Thread

[ErickAA]

Blake Griffin traded for Harris and Bradley. I think Detroit is legitimately trying to make a playoff push with this move. But I don't have a clue what the Clippers motivation is.

Are they trying to reset around Tobias Harris? Since he came back from injury I thought Blake and the Clippers were playing really well and looked like they were in a good groove and everyone was getting along. I thought they were going to stand pat and play out the season, get a high seed and try to upset some higher seeds (specifically Houston) in the playoffs. Now I dunno what they are doing.

think theyre trying to blow it up...they are shopping deandre and sweet lou as well...interesting that they'd jettison griffin before they moved those two...I love lou...dude can just score at will which would definitely be useful to some "contender" out there...

As an LA basketball fan these moves suck. Their games were actually fun to watch this year. Lou Williams was fun to watch, and with Blake Griffin and Austin Rivers on the Clippers any game had the potential to turn into a brawl as everyone hates those guys so much.

[Dan Druff]

Sweet Lou is one of the more underrated NBA players. I grimaced when the Lakers traded him last year mid-season, with some nonsense that he didn't really fit into their long-term plans. In the meantime, Lakers continue to be an awful, dysfunctional mess. Lou wasn't going to make the team good, but he was keeping them from being quite as pathetic.

I'm surprised by the Griffin trade. Like you, I noticed the Clippers were looking a lot better after their poor early season. They weren't going to win the West under any circumstances, but they were headed for the playoffs, and as you said, might have even upset someone. They've actually done better than expected without Chris Paul.

Now there's no more Griffin and no more Paul, and Steve Ballmer has to be looking at their roster and wondering why he paid $2 million for this perpetual failteam.

Racist old Donald Sterling got outed at the perfect time, just as the Clippers were most exciting and looking like a future champion. It also didn't hurt that the Lakers were in a shame spiral, and the Clippers were the better team in LA. Since then, the Clippers have basically been the Toronto Raptors -- good in the regular season, but never quite strong enough to really be a strong contender to win the Conference. The departure of Chris Paul was pretty much the concession of that, and now Griffin's exit is the nail in that coffin.

Lou Williams trade from Lakers was a straight tank move. They needed to be in top 3 to keep their pick, and he probably would have single handedly screwed that up.

Assuming the Clippers are tanking (I really don't know) the Lakers could actually probably get Lou traded back next year if they can construct a team where they are ready to win now, which seems unlikely.

They could have gotten him back this year, after the tank, and chose not to.

Lou is 31, so he doesn't have much time left before the inevitable decline. I doubt he'll be ageless like Lebron.

If a contender can pick him up this year, I think he'll be a great asset off the bench.

[ErickAA]

So they are going to blow it up completely and rebuild a team around Tobias Harris? The current team doesn't really have any good young players to build around. Looks like its gonna be another long stretch in the lottery.

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

So they are going to blow it up completely and rebuild a team around Tobias Harris? The current team doesn't really have any good young players to build around. Looks like its gonna be another long stretch in the lottery.

lou is just a straight up killer...not too many guys when they come off the bench can just light it up for like 25-30...

this is all about asset acquisition, not tobias harris...in this case it doesn't make much sense as the asset they got back (the first rounder) isn't going to be that great since the pistons seem to be going for a playoff spot with this move so that pick will be outta the lotto...I love avery Bradley as a Celtics fan, but paying him 15+ a year? tough to digest that one...don't know what they're gonna get back for deandre...cant be that much since he's a FA after this year so not like any potential lotto team is gonna want to deal for him...so you're looking at another middling/bottom first rounder...I mean two picks from like 15-25 will be OK, but nothing great...not like in the west that's gonna do anything for you...

[ErickAA]

So they are going to blow it up completely and rebuild a team around Tobias Harris? The current team doesn't really have any good young players to build around. Looks like its gonna be another long stretch in the lottery.

lou is just a straight up killer...not too many guys when they come off the bench can just light it up for like 25-30...

this is all about asset acquisition, not tobias harris...in this case it doesn't make much sense as the asset they got back (the first rounder) isn't going to be that great since the pistons seem to be going for a playoff spot with this move so that pick will be outta the lotto...I love avery Bradley as a Celtics fan, but paying him 15+ a year? tough to digest that one...don't know what they're gonna get back for deandre...cant be that much since he's a FA after this year so not like any potential lotto team is gonna want to deal for him...so you're looking at another middling/bottom first rounder...I mean two picks from like 15-25 will be OK, but nothing great...not like in the west that's gonna do anything for you...

I probably have a higher opinion of Harris than you do. I doubt the average 15th pick in the draft (or wherever the draft pick is going to land up) will on average be a better asset than Harris.

[varys]

Lebron bought a house in LA a couple months ago right? Clippers just clearing cap space with this one. Obv both LA teams will be all over him after the dubs sweep the cavs.

[varys]

Also druff i think that was a typo but to be clear ballmer paid $2b.

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

lou is just a straight up killer...not too many guys when they come off the bench can just light it up for like 25-30...

this is all about asset acquisition, not tobias harris...in this case it doesn't make much sense as the asset they got back (the first rounder) isn't going to be that great since the pistons seem to be going for a playoff spot with this move so that pick will be outta the lotto...I love avery Bradley as a Celtics fan, but paying him 15+ a year? tough to digest that one...don't know what they're gonna get back for deandre...cant be that much since he's a FA after this year so not like any potential lotto team is gonna want to deal for him...so you're looking at another middling/bottom first rounder...I mean two picks from like 15-25 will be OK, but nothing great...not like in the west that's gonna do anything for you...

I probably have a higher opinion of Harris than you do. I doubt the average 15th pick in the draft (or wherever the draft pick is going to land up) will on average be a better asset than Harris.

nothing wrong with harris, but when you trade a stud you're doing it to get the pick asset rather than an average/slightly above average player...if harris is on a long term 15M/year type deal id rather have the 15th pick on a cheap deal and hope he turns into something...

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

just watched woj on SVP...he said the clips are trying to reshape their roster without bottoming out...that's the problem with the NBA...you either bottom out or you're on top...this being in the middle shit doesn't work...that's exactly where theyre headed with harris/Bradley (if they resign him)/DET 1st/1st they get for deandre...those firsts are gonna be mid teens or lower picks...I mean I get it, you weren't even good enough to even be the shitty stepchild in LA, then you finally became relevant when blake and CP3 got there and it's tough to wanting to go back to being the team everybody shits on, but if you can get shit on for a few years the right way you'll be the ones doing the shitting afterwards...

the other alternative is doing what the Celtics did and hope some fucktard gifts you amazing draft picks for guys running on fumes, but that's wishful thinking...

[Dan Druff]

Also druff i think that was a typo but to be clear ballmer paid $2b.

Oops. Yes, $2b.

Had it been $2m, I would have bid on the team. Then I wouldn't be publicly calling them a failteam out here.

[BCR]

That was an incredibly bad trade by the Pistons. They just set their franchise back 5-7 years. Just taking on 5 years of that Griffin contract at that price was idiotic if it was a stand alone deal, let alone shipping useful players and draft picks for an injury prone malcontent. Blake is a miserable sob living in LA. He’s a wannabe comedian who hangs with Hollywood types and is hated by teammates. He’ll be miserable, always injured, and back rehabbing in LA for half the season at like $38 million per year. If the Clippers can move Gallo(shit contract) and DJ, they’ll be really well poised for the future and in on everyone being in LA with a ton of flexibility. The Lakers are the Yankees and the Clippers are below the Mets, but the Lakers are still such a mess, and LA is LA, so I’d worry if I was the Lakers trying to lure in tier 1 free agents. They’ve really made some bad decisions with drafting that Ball circus and having that unmovable Deng contract on the books for a few more years.

[varys]

That was an incredibly bad trade by the Pistons. They just set their franchise back 5-7 years. Just taking on 5 years of that Griffin contract at that price was idiotic if it was a stand alone deal, let alone shipping useful players and draft picks for an injury prone malcontent. Blake is a miserable sob living in LA. He’s a wannabe comedian who hangs with Hollywood types and is hated by teammates. He’ll be miserable, always injured, and back rehabbing in LA for half the season at like $38 million per year. If the Clippers can move Gallo(shit contract) and DJ, they’ll be really well poised for the future and in on everyone being in LA with a ton of flexibility. The Lakers are the Yankees and the Clippers are below the Mets, but the Lakers are still such a mess, and LA is LA, so I’d worry if I was the Lakers trying to lure in tier 1 free agents. They’ve really made some bad decisions with drafting that Ball circus and having that unmovable Deng contract on the books for a few more years.

Zach Lowe made the point that Detroit/Van Gundy went into panic mode and decided on a few years of mediocrity as opposed to remaining on the 8 seed bubble. No doubt Blake for all his issues is still the best player in this trade but wooow @ how much theyre paying him into his early 30s. Hes already moving slower and will need to hang around the 40% mark from deep to remain a star. (NOT a superstar obv) Hes currently shooting a career high which is around 36%.

Simply put no big names want to go to Detroit just like no one will take calls from cleveland once lebron jets.

[varys]

And yeah those deng and mozgov contracts are incredibly bad and couldnt be given away.

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

the thing on blake is this...would other guys go to Detroit to play with him? cause the nba is one big circle jerk now...instead of being like Jordan and wanting to cut the throats of your opponents you just join up and sing kumbaya...I mean the best they were doing is wildly overpaying reggie Jackson to come there...if blake would move the needle and get FAs to consider Detroit then it's not a bad move...

another interesting thing on the clips...assuming theyre gonna jettison deandre before the trade deadline...do they take a chance on boogie in the offseason? is he going to come at a discount because of the Achilles? tough to want to go that route because that seems to be a really fucking shitty injury...only guy I can think of who had that recently who was a good player was wes Matthews...he was ascending to be a top B-level, low A-level type player, blew out his Achilles at around the same age boogie did and he's just not the same player...boogie is a known mental case so if he cant come to terms with being the player he was pre-Achilles will he torpedo the locker room? if the clips are hell bent on staying relevant it might not be a bad signing if you can get him for like 12-15/year...

[varys]

Word on boogie is that his injury likely makes him a pelican for life when they emerge as one of two or three teams willing to pay a near 30 year old coming off an awful injury the max. These fucking NBA contracts have gotten ridiculous.

[gut]

A fun thought experiment that only works in the NBA. There are 8 teams currently winning more than 60% of their games, call them the contenders (GS, Hou, Min, SA, OKC, Cle, Bos, Tor). Build an all-star roster of anyone from the remaining 22 teams, does that team win the title? Hypothetically, that roster could look like:

Guards: Damian Lillard, CJ McCollum, Bradley Beal, Kemba Walker, Victor Oladipo, Devin Booker

Wings/Bigs: Ben Simmons, Greek Freek, Kristaps, Marc Gasol, Joel Embiid, Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis, Nikola Jokic


Now obviously that team has insane depth, but in a playoff series with GS's main guys playing 40 minutes, who wins? I think it is actually possible Golden State wins, or at the very least it is a moderately close series.

I suppose this experiment could work in baseball also, assuming the top team, say Houston right now, has 3 starters all on the top of their game (kuechel, verlander, cole) they can win a 7 game series vs an all-star team of the bottom 22 teams. part of that though is the randomness of baseball, and 7 games still being a small sample size.

Wouldnt work at all in the NFL or NHL, the 2 leagues with an actual hard cap.

[KidPresentable]

I'm inclined to blindly like the trade for the Clippers as Jerry West was the brains behind it. His personnel choices throughout his career have been very good, to put it mildly.

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

Word on boogie is that his injury likely makes him a pelican for life when they emerge as one of two or three teams willing to pay a near 30 year old coming off an awful injury the max. These fucking NBA contracts have gotten ridiculous.

jesus, good luck with that one...again I don't know if there's any track record of a guy coming back from that kinda injury and being the same player...whatever team wants to pay him 30/year is gonna be eating shit on that one...

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

A fun thought experiment that only works in the NBA. There are 8 teams currently winning more than 60% of their games, call them the contenders (GS, Hou, Min, SA, OKC, Cle, Bos, Tor). Build an all-star roster of anyone from the remaining 22 teams, does that team win the title? Hypothetically, that roster could look like:

Guards: Damian Lillard, CJ McCollum, Bradley Beal, Kemba Walker, Victor Oladipo, Devin Booker

Wings/Bigs: Ben Simmons, Greek Freek, Kristaps, Marc Gasol, Joel Embiid, Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis, Nikola Jokic


Now obviously that team has insane depth, but in a playoff series with GS's main guys playing 40 minutes, who wins? I think it is actually possible Golden State wins, or at the very least it is a moderately close series.

I suppose this experiment could work in baseball also, assuming the top team, say Houston right now, has 3 starters all on the top of their game (kuechel, verlander, cole) they can win a 7 game series vs an all-star team of the bottom 22 teams. part of that though is the randomness of baseball, and 7 games still being a small sample size.

Wouldnt work at all in the NFL or NHL, the 2 leagues with an actual hard cap.

still take the pieced together team...I move simmons to the backcourt and I can have some combo of greek freak, kristaps, embiid, brow Ill take my chances against GS...question would be, can that massive lineup stay with GS...would be interesting to watch...guess they would have to press on the outside to funnel them to the interior presence???

EDIT: gimmie a full healthy Patrick Beverly on that guard list and I take the pieced together team...let his ass dog steph for 40 minutes....think I can piece together enough offense from the other 4 guys that I wouldn't need him to do anything on that end...

[KidPresentable]

Word on boogie is that his injury likely makes him a pelican for life when they emerge as one of two or three teams willing to pay a near 30 year old coming off an awful injury the max. These fucking NBA contracts have gotten ridiculous.

jesus, good luck with that one...again I don't know if there's any track record of a guy coming back from that kinda injury and being the same player...whatever team wants to pay him 30/year is gonna be eating shit on that one...

There have actually been a couple good pieces about this in the wake of Cousins's injury. Here's a decent one: https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/1/...s-is-the-worst

It's quite a small sample size and the two big superstars it happened to (Bryant and Wilkins) were already well past their prime, so they likely wouldn't have been able to keep up a high level of play much longer anyway.

I've never been a huge Cousins fan just because he's kind of a bonehead, but there's no doubt the dude is insanely talented, so it's a bummer that his career is probably (effectively) dead.