Giancarlo trade watch thread

[Dan Druff]

Giancarlo wants out of the Marlins.

The Marlins ownership wants out of his monster contract.

So he's moving... somewhere.

The problem is that he has the mammoth contract of all mammoth contracts: $295 million over the next 10 years, to be exact.

And he will be almost 28 1/2 before he swings at his next pitch. And he has a history of injury issues.

And the Marlins want good prospects for him.

So... how much is a really, really good hitter in his prime with a really, really, backbreaking contract worth? And before you answer, how much is he worth, knowing that he is often plagued by injuries, and could be a $295 million bust?

What is the appropriate return for him? Should the Marlins be happy with a team simply taking the contract off their hands, plus a few fail prospects? Or should they expect more? Because it seems like they're expecting more.

And what is Stanton really worth? Before you groan at his $30 million per year, note that a lot of mediocre starting pitchers are getting in the neighborhood of $15 million these days, so teams often waste $30 million each year pretty quickly nowadays. Is one Giancarlo Stanton better than two middling pitchers earning $15 million each? I would say yes, but the difference is that those middling pitchers don't have 10-year contracts. I do think that Stanton's contract will be a huge problem in the second half of it. For example, Adrian Gonzalez is only 35, and seems pretty much done. Adrian Gonzalez had no history of injury until 2017. Stanton's contract runs until he's almost 38.

Stanton is definitely worth $30 mil for each year he has like 2017, but how many more will there be?

If your team didn't have to give up prospects, would you be okay with them taking on his contract?

Right now, he says his #1 choice is the Dodgers. Stanton grew up in the Los Angeles area.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/m...de-clause-for/

[MrTickle]

Giancarlo wants out of the Marlins.

The Marlins ownership wants out of his monster contract.

So he's moving... somewhere.

The problem is that he has the mammoth contract of all mammoth contracts: $295 million over the next 10 years, to be exact.

And he will be almost 28 1/2 before he swings at his next pitch. And he has a history of injury issues.

And the Marlins want good prospects for him.

So... how much is a really, really good hitter in his prime with a really, really, backbreaking contract worth? And before you answer, how much is he worth, knowing that he is often plagued by injuries, and could be a $295 million bust?

What is the appropriate return for him? Should the Marlins be happy with a team simply taking the contract off their hands, plus a few fail prospects? Or should they expect more? Because it seems like they're expecting more.

And what is Stanton really worth? Before you groan at his $30 million per year, note that a lot of mediocre starting pitchers are getting in the neighborhood of $15 million these days, so teams often waste $30 million each year pretty quickly nowadays. Is one Giancarlo Stanton better than two middling pitchers earning $15 million each? I would say yes, but the difference is that those middling pitchers don't have 10-year contracts. I do think that Stanton's contract will be a huge problem in the second half of it. For example, Adrian Gonzalez is only 35, and seems pretty much done. Adrian Gonzalez had no history of injury until 2017. Stanton's contract runs until he's almost 38.

Stanton is definitely worth $30 mil for each year he has like 2017, but how many more will there be?

If your team didn't have to give up prospects, would you be okay with them taking on his contract?

Right now, he says his #1 choice is the Dodgers. Stanton grew up in the Los Angeles area.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/m...de-clause-for/

Surely Dodgers will have to force Miami to eat a part of the contract and while sending a few more prospects to the Marlins.

Would you be happy to take him and give up some role players and some of the best players in the farm?

[Dan Druff]

Giancarlo wants out of the Marlins.

The Marlins ownership wants out of his monster contract.

So he's moving... somewhere.

The problem is that he has the mammoth contract of all mammoth contracts: $295 million over the next 10 years, to be exact.

And he will be almost 28 1/2 before he swings at his next pitch. And he has a history of injury issues.

And the Marlins want good prospects for him.

So... how much is a really, really good hitter in his prime with a really, really, backbreaking contract worth? And before you answer, how much is he worth, knowing that he is often plagued by injuries, and could be a $295 million bust?

What is the appropriate return for him? Should the Marlins be happy with a team simply taking the contract off their hands, plus a few fail prospects? Or should they expect more? Because it seems like they're expecting more.

And what is Stanton really worth? Before you groan at his $30 million per year, note that a lot of mediocre starting pitchers are getting in the neighborhood of $15 million these days, so teams often waste $30 million each year pretty quickly nowadays. Is one Giancarlo Stanton better than two middling pitchers earning $15 million each? I would say yes, but the difference is that those middling pitchers don't have 10-year contracts. I do think that Stanton's contract will be a huge problem in the second half of it. For example, Adrian Gonzalez is only 35, and seems pretty much done. Adrian Gonzalez had no history of injury until 2017. Stanton's contract runs until he's almost 38.

Stanton is definitely worth $30 mil for each year he has like 2017, but how many more will there be?

If your team didn't have to give up prospects, would you be okay with them taking on his contract?

Right now, he says his #1 choice is the Dodgers. Stanton grew up in the Los Angeles area.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/m...de-clause-for/

Surely Dodgers will have to force Miami to eat a part of the contract and while sending a few more prospects to the Marlins.

Would you be happy to take him and give up some role players and some of the best players in the farm?

Without throwing out players or numbers, that's hard to answer, but the answer is yes.

If Miami ate $95 million of that $295 million, I would be okay with the Dodgers shipping out some role players and 1 or 2 good prospects. I don't think the Dodgers have any more Seagers or Bellingers in the farm system at the moment. Urias is recovering from major surgery and may never be the same. Walker Buehler is generating a lot of hype, but he sucked in his limited action in the big leagues in 2017. Alex Verdugo is the best hitting prospect at the moment, but is only #36 on the Baseball America list.

So yeah, maybe Walker Buehler and someone else?

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

teams should tell the marlins to go fuck themselves...

Stanton has a full no trade so if he wants to end up a dodger they should give the marlins the bare minimum as punishment for having a lying piece of shit owner...

they need him to leave more than he wants to leave...

[Sanlmar]

Unlike your other thread this does make me nervous.

Stanton Bellinger could approach Manny Ramirez & David Ortiz.

This is awful news. I am going to trust the Dodgers will think as Druff does and pass. We do not need the Dodgers winning the World Series. It would be a long awful summer next year trying to fade that offense.

Dodgers are idiots. You gotta ride this momentum until they prove otherwise.

The Marlins are not going to eat one dime of that contract.

[chinamaniac]

Giancarlo wants out of the Marlins.

The Marlins ownership wants out of his monster contract.

So he's moving... somewhere.

The problem is that he has the mammoth contract of all mammoth contracts: $295 million over the next 10 years, to be exact.

And he will be almost 28 1/2 before he swings at his next pitch. And he has a history of injury issues.

And the Marlins want good prospects for him.

So... how much is a really, really good hitter in his prime with a really, really, backbreaking contract worth? And before you answer, how much is he worth, knowing that he is often plagued by injuries, and could be a $295 million bust?

What is the appropriate return for him? Should the Marlins be happy with a team simply taking the contract off their hands, plus a few fail prospects? Or should they expect more? Because it seems like they're expecting more.

And what is Stanton really worth? Before you groan at his $30 million per year, note that a lot of mediocre starting pitchers are getting in the neighborhood of $15 million these days, so teams often waste $30 million each year pretty quickly nowadays. Is one Giancarlo Stanton better than two middling pitchers earning $15 million each? I would say yes, but the difference is that those middling pitchers don't have 10-year contracts. I do think that Stanton's contract will be a huge problem in the second half of it. For example, Adrian Gonzalez is only 35, and seems pretty much done. Adrian Gonzalez had no history of injury until 2017. Stanton's contract runs until he's almost 38.

Stanton is definitely worth $30 mil for each year he has like 2017, but how many more will there be?

If your team didn't have to give up prospects, would you be okay with them taking on his contract?

Right now, he says his #1 choice is the Dodgers. Stanton grew up in the Los Angeles area.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/m...de-clause-for/

They are going to get a lot more than a few fail prospects for him. As far as the high contract thats just the cost of doing business in Baseball. Whoever trades for him knows there is a great chance the back half of this contract will either be dead money or low production (think Pujols)

[Sanlmar]

Stanton is definitely worth $30 mil for each year he has like 2017, but how many more will there
They are going to get a lot more than a few fail prospects for him. As far as the high contract thats just the cost of doing business in Baseball. Whoever trades for him knows there is a great chance the back half of this contract will either be dead money or low production (think Pujols)

China cuts to the chase here.

Fangraphs estimated Bryce Harper’s value at $75 million/yr at one point. Kid is gonna bink $50 million/yr. So what is the real value and what should Stanton’s real cost be? If you want to only offer $30 million and spread his real cost over more years - and you have money to burn as the Dodger do - you light the fuse.

Been thinking about Joe Namath. Famous for his shocking rookie contract in 1965. He got $427,000 over 3 years. $142,000/yr. The average NFL contract was maybe $25,000. Many were concerned that his new team mates wouldn’t accept him or worse. Maybe underpaid opponents would head hunt the rich kid.

Fact is he made only five and a half times the average salary (if you excluded the Lincoln Continental). Bryce Harper and effectively Stanton will make $50 million when Cody Bellinger makes only $500,000. Makes you wonder how long the rookie contract situation continues before they go all Curt Flood on the MLB

Harper/Stanton make over 100x Bellinger. Lol Namath was 5.5x average team mate in ‘65.

Of course, Sonny Werblin (LA guy) was right about Namath. They won the Super Bowl. There the comparison with Dodgers prolly ends ..... cause the Dodgers are retards and won’t sign Stanton


By all that is holy please don’t let Stanton sign. Please write a letter to the LA Times editorial section Druff

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

Giancarlo wants out of the Marlins.

The Marlins ownership wants out of his monster contract.

So he's moving... somewhere.

The problem is that he has the mammoth contract of all mammoth contracts: $295 million over the next 10 years, to be exact.

And he will be almost 28 1/2 before he swings at his next pitch. And he has a history of injury issues.

And the Marlins want good prospects for him.

So... how much is a really, really good hitter in his prime with a really, really, backbreaking contract worth? And before you answer, how much is he worth, knowing that he is often plagued by injuries, and could be a $295 million bust?

What is the appropriate return for him? Should the Marlins be happy with a team simply taking the contract off their hands, plus a few fail prospects? Or should they expect more? Because it seems like they're expecting more.

And what is Stanton really worth? Before you groan at his $30 million per year, note that a lot of mediocre starting pitchers are getting in the neighborhood of $15 million these days, so teams often waste $30 million each year pretty quickly nowadays. Is one Giancarlo Stanton better than two middling pitchers earning $15 million each? I would say yes, but the difference is that those middling pitchers don't have 10-year contracts. I do think that Stanton's contract will be a huge problem in the second half of it. For example, Adrian Gonzalez is only 35, and seems pretty much done. Adrian Gonzalez had no history of injury until 2017. Stanton's contract runs until he's almost 38.

Stanton is definitely worth $30 mil for each year he has like 2017, but how many more will there be?

If your team didn't have to give up prospects, would you be okay with them taking on his contract?

Right now, he says his #1 choice is the Dodgers. Stanton grew up in the Los Angeles area.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/m...de-clause-for/

They are going to get a lot more than a few fail prospects for him. As far as the high contract thats just the cost of doing business in Baseball. Whoever trades for him knows there is a great chance the back half of this contract will either be dead money or low production (think Pujols)

why would any team give up good prospects for him?

he has a full no trade...from what ive read hes cool with staying in Miami...theyre the ones who want to get rid of him because they cant afford him...if he wants to go to team X he can pretty much force his way there and play chicken with Miami...he's in a MUCH better position on this whole thing because that team is supposedly fucked financially and they need to shed that money...

[chinamaniac]

They are going to get a lot more than a few fail prospects for him. As far as the high contract thats just the cost of doing business in Baseball. Whoever trades for him knows there is a great chance the back half of this contract will either be dead money or low production (think Pujols)

why would any team give up good prospects for him?

he has a full no trade...from what ive read hes cool with staying in Miami...theyre the ones who want to get rid of him because they cant afford him...if he wants to go to team X he can pretty much force his way there and play chicken with Miami...he's in a MUCH better position on this whole thing because that team is supposedly fucked financially and they need to shed that money...

I don't think Miami is getting rid of him because they cannot afford him unless someone can point me to some financials where they are losing big money every year. I think they locked him up to this contract for the specific reason they knew down the road they would get a haul for him because even @ 300 Million the contract is reasonable for big market teams.

Now you have a new ownership/new regime/ fresh rebuild with Jeter etc...

Maybe I am wrong but I would like to think any big market team would be giddy at getting this guy for next to nothing in prospects

[Hockey Guy]

He's definitely no Jason Heyward that's for sure.

As for Jeffrey Loria, he's the best owner in Expos history & probably MLB history. I'd love to meet him.

/sarcasm

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

why would any team give up good prospects for him?

he has a full no trade...from what ive read hes cool with staying in Miami...theyre the ones who want to get rid of him because they cant afford him...if he wants to go to team X he can pretty much force his way there and play chicken with Miami...he's in a MUCH better position on this whole thing because that team is supposedly fucked financially and they need to shed that money...

I don't think Miami is getting rid of him because they cannot afford him unless someone can point me to some financials where they are losing big money every year. I think they locked him up to this contract for the specific reason they knew down the road they would get a haul for him because even @ 300 Million the contract is reasonable for big market teams.

Now you have a new ownership/new regime/ fresh rebuild with Jeter etc...

Maybe I am wrong but I would like to think any big market team would be giddy at getting this guy for next to nothing in prospects

I thought they were moving him because of money because why else would you? I understand your argument of locking him up and then moving him for a truckload of prospects later on, but the counter to that is his full no trade...you give a guy a full no trade you sabotage your ability to get max value for him because the market is constricted...the player is the one who is dictating the terms of the trade not the club...

not that they would but lets say the rays came at the marlins and said, 'we have a ton of super prospects we'd like to give you for Stanton...' the marlins get all excited about getting 3 top prospects for Stanton, they go to Stanton and say we have a trade to tampa for you and Stanton tells them to go pound sand...

if this is about money (which I always thought it was) those $2+M checks every month are gonna start hurting the marlins far sooner than it's gonna hurt Stanton playing there...

[ToasterOven]

why would any team give up good prospects for him?

he has a full no trade...from what ive read hes cool with staying in Miami...theyre the ones who want to get rid of him because they cant afford him...if he wants to go to team X he can pretty much force his way there and play chicken with Miami...he's in a MUCH better position on this whole thing because that team is supposedly fucked financially and they need to shed that money...

I don't think Miami is getting rid of him because they cannot afford him unless someone can point me to some financials where they are losing big money every year. I think they locked him up to this contract for the specific reason they knew down the road they would get a haul for him because even @ 300 Million the contract is reasonable for big market teams.

Now you have a new ownership/new regime/ fresh rebuild with Jeter etc...

Maybe I am wrong but I would like to think any big market team would be giddy at getting this guy for next to nothing in prospects

I guess you haven't read any article or interview on the Marlins this off season.

[jsearles22]

why would any team give up good prospects for him?

he has a full no trade...from what ive read hes cool with staying in Miami...theyre the ones who want to get rid of him because they cant afford him...if he wants to go to team X he can pretty much force his way there and play chicken with Miami...he's in a MUCH better position on this whole thing because that team is supposedly fucked financially and they need to shed that money...

I don't think Miami is getting rid of him because they cannot afford him unless someone can point me to some financials where they are losing big money every year. I think they locked him up to this contract for the specific reason they knew down the road they would get a haul for him because even @ 300 Million the contract is reasonable for big market teams.

Now you have a new ownership/new regime/ fresh rebuild with Jeter etc...

Maybe I am wrong but I would like to think any big market team would be giddy at getting this guy for next to nothing in prospects

I disagree that Miami doesnt NEED to get rid of him. They have stated they want a $90 million payroll and to restock the depleted farm system. Stanton hates losing. This trade is going to happen but I think Miami wont get back as much as you think they will. Just my opinion

A common retort to the money matter is that the new owners, who just bought the Marlins for $1.2 billion, should just suck it up and spend a little more to put a good team on the field. But that’s not how the Marlins work. They’re losing money, and Jeter & Co. need to turn the Marlins around as a business, too. You can’t spend money you don’t have. This isn’t like going to college or running a government.

Stanton’s trade value might never be higher. Think back to just seven months ago, at the end of spring training. What was your opinion of Stanton? Many thought: great player, incredible potential, but always hurt and maybe not worth all that money. Would he ever put it together for a whole year?

He did put it together for a whole year, and the result was super. Stanton is an extremely desirable player. The list of teams interested in acquiring him is a long one. (The list of teams with the means to acquire him is shorter.) The Marlins don’t know how long this perception of/production from Stanton will last, and it’s very possible 2017 ends up being the best year of Stanton’s career.

What if Stanton — whose lengthy injury history doesn’t merely disappear with one full season — gets hurt again? What if he slumps, like he did for so much of 2016? If the Marlins keep Stanton heading into 2018, they would be a cruel twist of fate away from Stanton’s contract again looking like a potential albatross.
Giancarlo Stanton on 'Kimmel': No meetings with Derek Jeter yet, might not wash underwear during hot streaks

The Marlins need to restock their farm system. The quantity and quality of player the Marlins would receive in exchange for Stanton is not clear. The eventual answer depends, again, on money. If the Marlins agree to take on a significant percentage of Stanton’s future salaries, they’ll get more/better players back. If their primary focus is shedding the money, the package will be lesser.

Either way, the Marlins’ farm system is widely regarded as one of the worst — if not the worst — in baseball. A smoothly operating prospect pipeline is critical to the Marlins’ long-term success, and it’ll be an area of focus under CEO Jeter. Moving Stanton is a part of that effort.

“We do have to rebuild the organization. It starts with player development, scouting,” Jeter said at his introductory news conference. “We have to be strong in those areas, because if you’re going to have a sustainable organization over time, you need that pipeline of young players that can come in.”

Stanton doesn’t want to stick around for a rebuild. He said that point-blank after the Marlins’ last game of the year, when fans at Marlins Park gave him a rare standing ovation after his final at-bat. Rebuilding typically means losing — losing a lot — for a couple of years. Why would you want a mopey superstar on your developing team?
Marlins hire away another Yankee for front office

Don’t forget about Stanton’s biting comments in July after the Marlins lost two out of three to the lowly Phillies. Stanton was asked about his individual success (4 for 11 with four homers in the series).

“Honestly, if you're going to lose, lose a series, it's whatever. I don't really care,” Stanton said. “If it's not enough to help win, then personal stuff [doesn't matter]. I've had enough personal stuff. If we don't win, it's not that fun.”

It’s not hard to extrapolate that to the Marlins’ situation overall. Eight years into his career, Stanton has never played on a winning team. He’s had enough of the losing.

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

I disagree that Miami doesnt NEED to get rid of him. They have stated they want a $90 million payroll and to restock the depleted farm system. Stanton hates losing. This trade is going to happen but I think Miami wont get back as much as you think they will. Just my opinion

I'm gonna be absolutely amazed then if they get back anything to restock their farm system unless they can get the cardinals, giants, dodgers to get into a bidding war against each other...only way they're gonna get anything close to what they're expecting to get...

[herbertstemple]

The Cardinals supposedly have already made an offer. They do need a big bat in their line-up but Stanton says he only wants to play on the west coast. Plus he can opt out of his current contract in 2 or 3 years if he waives the no trade clause. The opt out would have lessen his value to STL quite a bit, so somebody else could offer more. They do have some promising young players & should have some money because they have sit on their ass the last couple of years & not spent a lot of money. Have missed the play offs the last couple of years & another miss may cause heads to roll in upper mgmt along with Matheny. The only reason they were close this year was the Cubs had a sub par 1st half of 2017. Can't expect that next year.

Would like to see him in STL but don't think it is going to happen.

[chinamaniac]

I don't think Miami is getting rid of him because they cannot afford him unless someone can point me to some financials where they are losing big money every year. I think they locked him up to this contract for the specific reason they knew down the road they would get a haul for him because even @ 300 Million the contract is reasonable for big market teams.

Now you have a new ownership/new regime/ fresh rebuild with Jeter etc...

Maybe I am wrong but I would like to think any big market team would be giddy at getting this guy for next to nothing in prospects

I thought they were moving him because of money because why else would you? I understand your argument of locking him up and then moving him for a truckload of prospects later on, but the counter to that is his full no trade...you give a guy a full no trade you sabotage your ability to get max value for him because the market is constricted...the player is the one who is dictating the terms of the trade not the club...

not that they would but lets say the rays came at the marlins and said, 'we have a ton of super prospects we'd like to give you for Stanton...' the marlins get all excited about getting 3 top prospects for Stanton, they go to Stanton and say we have a trade to tampa for you and Stanton tells them to go pound sand...

if this is about money (which I always thought it was) those $2+M checks every month are gonna start hurting the marlins far sooner than it's gonna hurt Stanton playing there...

Right , but he has a list of teams he gave Miami that he would accept trades to and they are now negotiating. So they are exploring. All signs point to the Dodgers being the favorites.

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

The Cardinals supposedly have already made an offer. They do need a big bat in their line-up but Stanton says he only wants to play on the west coast. Plus he can opt out of his current contract in 2 or 3 years if he waives the no trade clause. The opt out would have lessen his value to STL quite a bit, so somebody else could offer more. They do have some promising young players & should have some money because they have sit on their ass the last couple of years & not spent a lot of money. Have missed the play offs the last couple of years & another miss may cause heads to roll in upper mgmt along with Matheny. The only reason they were close this year was the Cubs had a sub par 1st half of 2017. Can't expect that next year.

Would like to see him in STL but don't think it is going to happen.

thing with this is would he? age 31 year, is anybody gonna step up and offer him 7-210 or something...it's baseball so any stupid shit is possible, but Christ that'd be a terrible deal for a club to do...

great job by his agent...here's 30+M/year, full no trade and if you fuck up and hate the club you agreed to go to we'll put in an opt out...

[chinamaniac]

Bottom line is the Marlins do have some leverage here. If teams low ball them they can just say fuck off and then keep him and come trade deadline one of these teams will pay

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

Bottom line is the Marlins do have some leverage here. If teams low ball them they can just say fuck off and then keep him and come trade deadline one of these teams will pay

true, they'd probably gain some leverage at that point, but they'll have also written out a lotta checks...sounds like theyre too cheap to even want to do that...

[PuppyMonkeyBaby]

OH hell given the stupidity of a certain team that plays in a 115 degree shithole could offer straight up trade of Grienke and Goldschmidt for Stanton.. Given how stupid ownership is there in AZ they might just do it. Then they can try and turn what is an obvious better relief pitcher into a failure again in Archie Bradley and that moron deal with Atlanta, to this day one of the worse in the last 5 yrs, where they traded away the number one fucking pick Dansby Swanson to Atlanta, for a pitcher with a case of the yips and who needs a shrink in Shelby Miller, and become the failures they were before this season.. They cant compete with LA for the division why the hell should they try.. Better off to take the 76ers method of tanking for several years get some draft picks and maybe then they can con the Indians with their casino billions into building them that new stadium they arrogantly think they are entitled to..