Ivey or Oy vey?

[Seca Tekcop]

Ok let me begin this with a prequalifying statement....

I think Phil Ivey is an absolutely amazing player.

Now lets stir up the shit.....

Im watching the live stream of the Big Drop Million event and there is now a little vomit in my mouth. This unfortunate situation was caused by the commentators for the event. Every time Phil Ivey simply touches his chips they whip themselves into a frenzy of that familiar tune "Isn't He lovely". Im getting tired of that tune.

This event is FILLED with talent and in fact the poker community is filled with talent.

I understand that judging who's best, is in a lot of ways totally subjective. The commentators for the One Drop also said that its a subjective thing..lol..just before they launched into song and began with the Phil Ivey is the greatest again.

Are the poker media trying to create a figurehead? Does that figurehead HAVE to be American?

In every competition we set up measuring sticks, and we use these sticks to determine who the best is..even though we all know these are never completely true representations. In poker we do the same thing.

Looking at only tournament poker we have a few of these measuring sticks...

WSOP (including WSOPE)
WPT
EPT
The Triple Crown (a title in each of the above)
The Global Poker Index (although Epic was a fail, the index is sound)

so...

WSOP: Phill Hellmuth (most wins AND most cashes of all time).

WPT: Gus Hansen / Carlos Mortenson (they share most wins).

EPT: Luca Pagano and Bertrand Grospellier (each sit solidly at the top the EPT rankings).

The Global Poker Index: Bertrand Grospellier (has held the #1 spot the longest and even lost it and got it back). By the way Phil Ivey never held it and is at #92 on this list not even in the top 10.

The AMAZING Triple Crown:

Griffin (2004 WSOP, 2007 EPT Grand Final and 2008 WPT Borgata), De Wolfe (2005 WPT Grand Prix de Paris, 2006 EPT Irish Open, 2009 WSOP), Cody (2010 EPT Deauville, 2010 WPT London, 2011 WSOP) and Grospellier (2008 EPT PCA, 2008 WPT Festa Al Lago, 2011 WSOP) each won three open events. Yes you see the name Grospellier again.

Now Im NOT knocking Ivey. As I said at the beginning of this thread, he's an AMAZING player, with many final tables 8 bracelets etc, but that being said he isn't the player at the top of these measuring sticks. Subjective yes, but still the praise is NOT being portioned out with due respect to the others. I ask myself why?

Is it because the media don't want a blond and spiked dyed haired Frenchie to sit at the top of the pyramid? Or for that matter a Spaniard or a Dane or an Italian; maybe (told you I would stir the shit..lol). Does it have to be a true red white and blue USA person to qualify for the over the top (almost royal bowing and scraping) attention Ivey gets? Even Phil who has demonstrated and shut everyone up (or at least it should have) with his multiple 2nd place finishes last year (including the players $50,000) and a 12th bracelet this year in a non-holdem event doesn't get this sickening fawning Ivey gets. Phil H. is a USA boy but the media has decided that we must hate Phil so it can't be him. Grinder has beaten the best of the best twice ($50,000 players champ playing an 8 different game rotation). Phil Ivey SNUBS the press and makes false statements about sitting out the WSOP as a move of "solidarity' for the players, when in actual fact his lawsuit was all about Ivey and not about any love for the players. Nothing on the Full Tilt front has changed, yet he isn't sitting out now.

Phil Ivey a GREAT player?.....yes...totally....completely so.

Phil Ivey the second coming of Christ to poker (as the media wants to sell him to you)?......oh god sorry I just puked into my mouth again ....gotta get to the toilet.

With love and respect for the PFA community...

Seca Tekcop...

[SetofKs]

I did not read the whole thing, but I will say I think it is sick how he stole millions from all the ftp players and all these geeks are still all over his nuts. Maybe he didn't know the money was being stolen, but in the real world if you receive stolen money you have to give it back. He should give back all the money he received for his ownership role in ftp. Of course he wont because nobody will make him, but I don't think he should get the pass that everybody is giving him in this situation.

[jsearles22]

I did not read the whole thing, but I will say I think it is sick how he stole millions from all the ftp players and all these geeks are still all over his nuts. Maybe he didn't know the money was being stolen, but in the real world if you receive stolen money you have to give it back. He should give back all the money he received for his ownership role in ftp. Of course he wont because nobody will make him, but I don't think he should get the pass that everybody is giving him in this situation.

So if the owners of the company you work for are caught stealing, then you have to give your paychecks back?

[Deal]

I did not read the whole thing, but I will say I think it is sick how he stole millions from all the ftp players and all these geeks are still all over his nuts. Maybe he didn't know the money was being stolen, but in the real world if you receive stolen money you have to give it back. He should give back all the money he received for his ownership role in ftp. Of course he wont because nobody will make him, but I don't think he should get the pass that everybody is giving him in this situation.

It would not surprise me at all to find out that Ivey is staked by debtholders.

[pokerclann1]

phil ivey is undoubtably the most talented player alive bar none, is he the greatest by way of tournament achievments no, but does he make any effort to be tournament player of the year, or besides this year in which he's been one of the stand out performers at the wsop does he really go after those bracelets unless he as prop bets going no, he's not really interested its all about making the money to phil ivey so although he might not be the greatest in way of acheivments he's most definetely the greatest player on the earth based on talent. As for the ftp debacle i dont know how far he was in so it would be unfair for me to judge him solely on that basis but what really wound me up this year was him turning up at the wsop cos if you remember last year he said it would be unfair of him to be playing the wsop when none of the ftp players had received any cash off ftp so whats changed this year phil huh hmm, great player not such a great guy imho ok rant over

[durrrr's passport]

I did not read the whole thing, but I will say I think it is sick how he stole millions from all the ftp players and all these geeks are still all over his nuts. Maybe he didn't know the money was being stolen, but in the real world if you receive stolen money you have to give it back. He should give back all the money he received for his ownership role in ftp. Of course he wont because nobody will make him, but I don't think he should get the pass that everybody is giving him in this situation.

So if the owners of the company you work for are caught stealing, then you have to give your paychecks back?