Without a doubt, the most talked about hand so far as this years WSOP. This is only part one.
http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/upda...d=12145&dayof=
Without a doubt, the most talked about hand so far as this years WSOP. This is only part one.
http://www.wsop.com/tournaments/upda...d=12145&dayof=
Of all the money e'er I had, I spent it in good company
I just read that, im anxious to see part 2.
Originally Posted by BUBBLES
Yea bud me too!!
Of all the money e'er I had, I spent it in good company
From Pokernews:
"Somebody get a writer over here to write this one down!" yelled out Ali Eslami from Table 360 before popping up out of his chair and looking around. PokerNews was right there as Eslami made the cry for a reporter. "Look at this crazy five-way pot," he said.
The action when our reporter arrived at the table was as follows.
From under the gun, Charles Pacheco limped in. Viktor Blom limped in from middle position and then Abe Mosseri limped in behind him in the hijack seat. Shaun Deeb then called on the button and John D'Agostino completed the bet from the small blind. Then, things got a bit interesting.
Nikolai Yakovenko was in the big blind and he raised to 12,400. Pacheco, Blom and Mosseri all made the call before action was back on Deeb. He took some time to think about his decision and then announced that he raised the pot.
Deeb actually had less than a full, pot-sized raise. His stack was a total of 68,800 and he was in for all of it. D'Agostino folded his hand from the small blind and then Yakovenko took some time of his own to think. After a minute or two, Yakovenko said, "All right, I'm all in."
While Deeb had less than the pot, Yakovenko had more and wasn't exactly all in just yet, but he slid a couple of giant stacks forward. Pacheco checked his cards again and made some facial movements. Blom quickly tossed his hand away, but had acted out of turn. A little bit longer passed and Pacheco then folded. With Blom already out of the way, Mosseri was up and had a very big decision in front of him.
Mosseri had a little under 400,000 in his stack and asked Yakovenko to count his stack. Yakovenko said to Mosseri that he actually had more than the pot, but Mosseri still wanted a count on Yakovenko's entire stack, using a few choice words. With all the chips Yakovenko had, it took him and the dealer a little bit to break down all the stacks. When it was finished, Yakovenko was said to have had 407,300. Now it was Mosseri's turn to tank.
Mosseri went into the tank, while Deeb stood up next to the table and watched. While Mosseri tanked for several minutes, a large crowd gathered around the table. It seemed as though every few seconds that passed, a new person showed up to watch what was going on. Everyone wanted to see what was going on and some were commenting on the action, which Yakovenko jumped in and asked people to stop doing. Deeb backed him up and silenced the spectators.
It was several long minutes in the tank for Mosseri. D'Agostino was pacing around behind the table telling people they weren't even going to get to play another hand because of how long this had been taking. D'Agostino was very short at the time and was looking to get some more hands in.
At one point when Mosseri was in the tank, he did some talking about his hand out loud, which Yakovenko wanted him to stop doing. Mosseri had announced his hand, saying, "I have aces and one suit," while plenty of other players were hovering around. Yakovenko took this as Mosseri "polling his friends" about his hand. There was also a point when Mosseri looked back at his cards and Greg Mueller leaned down to peak in from behind, which Yakovenko also requested be put to a stop.
Mosseri tanked for what most estimated at 10-15 minutes before Yakovenko finally called the clock on him. "Wow, this is the first time in my life anyone has called the clock on me," said Mosseri. Mosseri was given a minute to act on his hand by the floor staff and eventually said, "I call."
After Mosseri said he made the call, he turned his hand over, which was followed by Deeb turning his hand over and Yakovenko turning his over. Here's what was seen:
Mosseri: AcAsJc5c
Deeb: JhJsTc7s
Yakovenko: KcKs3d3c
With all the cards turned up, the dealer quickly ran out the flop, turn and river with the QsJd2dTs8s. Deeb had made a spade flush to more than triple up and win the main pot. For the side pot, Mosseri's aces held up and he was the winner of that one. But then, there was more controversy.
After the board ran out, Yakovenko said, "Wait a minute, he only said call," speaking of Mosseri's preflop action. Because Yakovenko had more than the pot when he raised, he wasn't actually all in. He stated that he only reraised the pot, which caused issue about whether or not everyone's money actually went in. It was clear that Deeb was all in, but the side pot between Mosseri and Yakovenko was in question due to Mosseri saying only, "I call."
The floor staff was called over again and the dealer informed him that the hands were prematurely tabled with action still pending between Mosseri and Yakovenko. It took another few minutes to get the story of the hand straight and figure out what was to happen.
The pot was counted, which Eslami's iPad calculator was needed for, to determine that Yakovenko's reraise was to 246,000. With Mosseri's stack at around 150,000 more than that, the first floor ruled that the turn and river would have to be rerun as the flop action hadn't been complete. Deeb flung his arms up in the air and couldn't believe the ruling. Neither could anyone watching or the players at the adjacent tables who could hear things.
Shouts of, "That is the worst ruling of all time," and "I can't believe that's the rule," and "Are you joking?" rang out within the tournament area. Deeb spoke up and said he wasn't accepting the ruling and that he wanted the ruling of World Series of Poker Tournament Director Jack Effel.
With the request coming from Shaun Deeb that he wanted an official ruling from World Series of Poker Tournament Director Jack Effel, the lead floor supervisor was called in and arrived on the scene within a few minutes to try and solve the issue as Effel was no longer in the building.
This floor first needed to hear things from the dealer upon arriving on the scene. By this time it had been over 20 minutes since it all began. The dealer ran through the actions to the floor, what had happened, what was said and how it ended. The floor then heard from the players again before making the final ruling.
The ruling was reversed in that it was deemed "accepted action" by all parties that all of the money was in the middle, even though Abe Mosseri had only said, "I call." Nikolai Yakovenko would have only committed about 60% of his stack by putting in the pot-sized reraise, but it was now ruled that he had to pay off Mosseri's entire lot.
There was a lot of back and forth between the players, even the ones not directly involved in the hand. All were trying to get the entire story straight and the pot set so play could move forward. Because of the time this had taken, which was around 30 minutes at this point, the players requested something be done about putting time back on the clock. Although the other tables in the tournament weren't directly involved in the hand, all tables had suffered because everyone was paying attention to the commotion rather than playing at a normal speed.
While the back and forth between Mosseri, Yakovenko and the floor was going on, Yakovenko had told the floor about Mosseri talking about his hand, showing them when he looked back at them and also about how he himself said to Mosseri that he reraised the pot, but was not actually all in. There was also a little bit of back story between the two that Ali Eslami filled us in on.
Early in the night, a hand happened where Yakovenko made a wheel, but turned over the two cards he wasn't using for the wheel first. A few seconds later, he turned over the cards that showed he had a wheel and scooped the pot after slowrolling Mosseri. Mosseri was upset and picked up the chips he owed to Yakovenko and tossed them across the table. Yakovenko had pulled this move because prior to this, Mosseri was doing some unpleasant joking towards Yakovenko's play in the event.
Eventually, Mosseri said he didn't want Yakovenko to ever talk to him again and the two got quiet. Yakovenko now directed most of his attention to the floor because he was rather upset with the ruling and having to pay Mosseri's entire amount. Mosseri, on the other hand, was busy stacking up his new stack of over 600,000 in chips. Mosseri also added that he thought the players were all in and said he would have just left if he had lost the pot. Deeb was also busy stacking up his chips as he had more than tripled his stack.
It took a few minutes to actually sort out the pot and get it correct before play resumed at the table. The players seated at Table 360 did ask the floor if there was something they could do about the time they had missed. The floor went to work on that, if possible, while the dealer dealt the next hand.
Yakovenko was left with just under 15,000 in chips and got them all in on the next hand in a hand of Limit Hold'em, busting against Viktor Blom.
With everything taking so long with the big hand, a table needed to be broken, but it was held up. The table was eventually broken and Phil Ivey took the seat once claimed by Yakovenko. The players at the table wanted more time because of the issue, but it had just been announced that there was only four hands left in the day and the clock was paused. Because Ivey had now joined the table, the floor said they couldn't play extra time as Ivey would be playing double because he came from an active table.
The table came up with a solution on the behalf of Eslami to finish out the four hands with Ivey, then remove him from the table and play an extra 15-20 minutes on their own. They believed it would be like they were "going back in time to fill the space," as Eslami put it. Problem was, Ivey said he wanted to be a part of it as he had missed some hands at the other table due to the slow play and the table not breaking because of the controversy that had happened. In the end, though, it was ruled that no time would be added and the players would simply finish their four hands for the night and then bag up their chips.
After it was all over some 40-45 minutes after the first limp from Charles Pacheco, Yakovenko did some debating with the floor staff on the side, which lasted a few minutes. After he was done, Mosseri talked to the floor to give his final thoughts. Eslami also spoked with the floor and said what he felt on the situation and the final ruling.
While many of the players were leaving the tournament area following the completion of the day, many of them complimented the floor on the correct ruling given all that had happened. It seemed to be well understood by all that it was a very difficult situation and something that hadn't been seen before, making it truly a unique issue.
This is a dealer blunder of epic proportions, and I simply don't understand how all of those high-level players didn't realize he had raised more than the pot when he said all-in (where the F is Allen Kessler of Barry Greenstein!).
I think a case can be made for either ruling, and would lean towards the first since he clearly told Abe he didn't raise all-in, with Mosseri saying it doesn't matter. This wasn't like he had 30,000 left after his raise, he had like 40% of his stack! It wasn't even close to being all-in
***EDIT*** after further thought I think that the second ruling is the bettor of the 2, although I don't think anything they do is fair to all parties***
Last edited by Steve-O; 06-26-2012 at 10:18 AM.
I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets
Whatever Deeb says. Has he given an interview about it yet?
Hand result and other nonsense aside taking that long to make a decision is silly. Amazed it was 10+ minutes before the clock was called.
"You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole; you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."
I don't think it's that odd or out of line considering the situation, Day 2 of a deep-stack event with a massive stack and you have to decide if you want to play a hand of PLO as a 60/40 favorite (at best) for your tournament. It's a spot where you know you are supposed to call, but the risk is so high, this is nothing like having AA or KK in holdem
I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets
I guess tourney regulars see it differently. I don't think any decision in a tourney is worth 10+ minutes.I don't think it's that odd or out of line considering the situation, Day 2 of a deep-stack event with a massive stack and you have to decide if you want to play a hand of PLO as a 60/40 favorite (at best) for your tournament. It's a spot where you know you are supposed to call, but the risk is so high, this is nothing like having AA or KK in holdem
"You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole; you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."
It sounds like Yakovenko was angle shooting to me. He knew the guy only said call yet Yakovenko also turned his cards face up. If he had won the pot he wouldnt have said anything. Since he lost the pot he THEN wanted to claim the guy only said call. I agree with the 2nd and final floor decision that the actions of the players essentially dictated that they both were in agreeance that all the money was in the middle. If they really did re-run 4th and 5th street after this and Yakovenko won, that would have been a huge joke!
It's hilarious that we as a society think everyone can be a dr, a lawyer, an engineer. Some people are just fucking stupid. Why can't we just accept that?
If you paid 50k to get in you might.I guess tourney regulars see it differently. I don't think any decision in a tourney is worth 10+ minutes.
Yeah, kind of what I said. Thanks for repeating it though.If you paid 50k to get in you might.
But how about the other people at the table who paid and are now watching as the clock counts down a level while someone makes a decision? They paid too. How is it fair for them?
"You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole; you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."
Because at some point they will need a repreive from other players (whether it's tanking for 10 minutes, having someone at your table slowplay so you don't miss too many hands when you are given an unfair penalty, and so on). It's just part of tournament ettiquette that you give players this courtesy; now if they are habitually doing this it's a different story.Yeah, kind of what I said. Thanks for repeating it though.
But how about the other people at the table who paid and are now watching as the clock counts down a level while someone makes a decision? They paid too. How is it fair for them?
I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets
Anytime this has happened at the table when I was playing It would be the 1st ruling 100%,I have seen this happen many times and always then turn and river would go back, Then they complete action on the flop, Put the 2 cards back shuffle and deal turn, complete action, Then deal river, This ruling is WRONG, And I think it had something to do with deeb crying to the floor, They know he is a big name and ruled on his side
I don't think it's that odd or out of line considering the situation, Day 2 of a deep-stack event with a massive stack and you have to decide if you want to play a hand of PLO as a 60/40 favorite (at best) for your tournament. It's a spot where you know you are supposed to call, but the risk is so high, this is nothing like having AA or KK in holdem
That's a ridiculous amount of time before having the clock called no matter what tournament. You're either in or you're out. He was probably taking in people's reactions and reads on the situation since they said everyone was talking about it.
That's a ridiculous amount of time before having the clock called no matter what tournament. You're either in or you're out. He was probably taking in people's reactions and reads on the situation since they said everyone was talking about it.
JH is right, even 10 minutes is too long, 15, 20, 25 minutes? I mean wtf. I'm calling the clock at the 5-6 minute mark.
Of all the money e'er I had, I spent it in good company
Abe openly talking about his hands and letting other people sweat his cards is insanely out of line, but the tank is not out of line at all... Steve-O already said why...
In a 50k buy-In tournament he finds himself in a very marginal spot with his entire tournament at stake. Calling a clock is a daily turbo move or an amateur hour move. Even the guy he beefed with ALL DAY, didn't call the clock on him until a ton of time passed by. You give abe that time, and if you ever need that time yourself, you get it back, simple as that.
It is also really hard to side with the first floors ruling because the action was closed for Deeb at this point and he is entitled to that board...It is a sick spot, the guy even verbalized all in, IMO the ruling should have been that Abe gets the side pot but only what a preflop pot size bet would have been and everyone gets a penalty for rolling their hands...
Not sure what is correct here, but I am certain everyone will have a different opinion of what should have happened, either way, that dealer fucked up big time.
Worst hand by far going in wins the shenanigans obviously. I gaurantee you on my life roll that if Deeb hadnt won the hand he would have been standing on the table and saying they should re-run the turn and river though!
It's hilarious that we as a society think everyone can be a dr, a lawyer, an engineer. Some people are just fucking stupid. Why can't we just accept that?
So, talking about your hand out loud, attempting to get information isn't amateur hour, but calling the clock 5 mins in is? I would've called the clock the second he started discussing his hand. How is that bad sportsmanship?
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