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Thread: Bovada credit card payment processors skimming again

  1. #1
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Bovada credit card payment processors skimming again

    This has happened before, and other players have complained about it in the past.

    Bovada charges a 5.9% credit card fee. That's kinda brutal, but at least you know that going in.

    I made two $500 deposits, so the fee should have been $29.50 each, for a total of $529.50 each.

    Instead, I was charged $569.13 both times -- almost a $40 skim for each one.

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    I redacted the name, though honestly this shitty processor (and by extension Bovada) doesn't really deserve the courtesy. But I don't want to name this and screw things up for Bovada... unless they won't make this right.

    This was NOT charged as a cash advance, nor does my bank have foreign transaction fees. I have deposited with this exact card in the past to Bovada with no issues.

    Keep in mind that Bovada's payment processor -- not Bovada itself -- is the one guilty here.

    However, Bovada takes a very cavalier attitude about this, attempting to blame it on "foreign transaction fees" or "cash advance fees", even if that's not the case.

    They also unreasonably demand that you send them a "running bank statement" with your full name, credit card number, and the transaction. There is no such thing. American banks do not issue a full "running statement" prior to the completion of your billing cycle. It can take as much as 6 weeks from the time of the charge to see an actual statement generated.

    When I told them I could send them a screen shot of my transaction list, with the bank name, my name, and last 4 of my CC number, they told me that "wasn't enough".

    After speaking with a supervisor, I was told to submit that, and "it should be fine".

    I'm very skeptical.

    I will update the progress on this.

    To repeat, this is NOT Bovada skimming, but it's their shady Chinese credit card processor doing it, and Bovada doesn't make it easy to recover the money.

    They did advise me, in a roundabout way, that such skimming is getting increasingly common, and that I should use bitcoin instead in the future. (I wasn't forced to do this, but I was highly advised to do so.)

    What a mess.

  2. #2
    This really sucks, I hope you get it worked out soon. May I ask why you are not using Bitcoin?

  3. #3
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Online Veteran View Post
    This really sucks, I hope you get it worked out soon. May I ask why you are not using Bitcoin?
    I didn't have any, and didn't feel like waiting to acquire it. It's brutal to acquire bitcoin quickly unless you know someone who wants to sell at the moment.

  4. #4
    I can buy up to 2K immediately with my CC on CB, although the fee is around 3.9%. I would assume you could do the same thing if you have built up your reputation with them. PM me if you ever need me to buy some for you. I don't want to make any money off of you, at the same time I don't want to lose any either.
    Last edited by Online Veteran; 08-30-2017 at 03:27 PM. Reason: Grammar

  5. #5
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Online Veteran View Post
    I can buy up to 2K immediately with my CC on CB, although the fee is around 3.9%. I would assume you could do the same thing if you have built up your reputation with them. PM me if you ever need me buy some for you. I don't want to make any money off of you, at the same time I don't want to lose any either.
    My bank gives me 2% back on CC transactions.

    In fact, the bitcoin might be worse because of the crappy transaction fees nowadays. And it's slower to move onto the site, which is a problem if you need the deposit to reload at a table.

  6. #6
    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    I won't trust any of these shady processors anymore after a declined transaction from 5Dimes lead to them stealing my card info and someone trying to run three transactions down in North Carolina. My guess is an internal low paid worker sold it to someone on a dark web or a similar type of thing.

    You never know with these sites/processors but the world keeps on getting more international scammers going after Americans.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Online Veteran View Post
    This really sucks, I hope you get it worked out soon. May I ask why you are not using Bitcoin?
    I didn't have any, and didn't feel like waiting to acquire it. It's brutal to acquire bitcoin quickly unless you know someone who wants to sell at the moment.
    You are willing to pay 5.9% for a credit card fee but not the same for a Bitcoin ATM? You can find some with fees in that range. Let me know if you need help figuring it out.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Online Veteran View Post
    I can buy up to 2K immediately with my CC on CB, although the fee is around 3.9%. I would assume you could do the same thing if you have built up your reputation with them. PM me if you ever need me buy some for you. I don't want to make any money off of you, at the same time I don't want to lose any either.
    My bank gives me 2% back on CC transactions.

    In fact, the bitcoin might be worse because of the crappy transaction fees nowadays. And it's slower to move onto the site, which is a problem if you need the deposit to reload at a table.
    Does Bovada give you a deposit bonus to make up for their credit card fees? What about if you used Bitcoin? And the transaction fees will plummet again soon. I am seeing them as low as 50 cents.

  9. #9
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snake_in_the_ass View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    I didn't have any, and didn't feel like waiting to acquire it. It's brutal to acquire bitcoin quickly unless you know someone who wants to sell at the moment.
    You are willing to pay 5.9% for a credit card fee but not the same for a Bitcoin ATM? You can find some with fees in that range. Let me know if you need help figuring it out.
    Why would I drive to an ATM to save $0 on fees?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by snake_in_the_ass View Post

    You are willing to pay 5.9% for a credit card fee but not the same for a Bitcoin ATM? You can find some with fees in that range. Let me know if you need help figuring it out.
    Why would I drive to an ATM to save $0 on fees?
    To save the headache of getting skimmed by some Chinese guy in Hong Kong ?

  11. #11
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snake_in_the_ass View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    Why would I drive to an ATM to save $0 on fees?
    To save the headache of getting skimmed by some Chinese guy in Hong Kong ?
    Not worth it.

    Also BTC doesn't load onto bovada instantly.

    CC is way more convenient unless I'm saving big on fees.

  12. #12
    Gold ftpjesus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by snake_in_the_ass View Post

    To save the headache of getting skimmed by some Chinese guy in Hong Kong ?
    Not worth it.

    Also BTC doesn't load onto bovada instantly.

    CC is way more convenient unless I'm saving big on fees.
    Heres a thought regarding the whole bitcoin not loading fast thing.. If you use coinbase get the shift card or even a bitpay card.. it works like a credit/debit card with I believe up to $1k per transaction and $10k per day max spending.. You can basically use the card to send bitcoin instantly like you would for anythingelse not ideal because youdont get the cash back scenario like your cc but it would allow you to basically pay with bitcoin without the ridiculous miner fees or the delay.. (I had a transaction the other day was going to be $7 miner fee on top of the $55 payment to the VPS provider (running a month long test with a VPS in the same datacenter as my primary forex broken dropped order lags significantly as the client to server lag is literally less then 2miliseconds now consistently while from my home even with 300meg internet I was running 100x that and when trading speed or lack of said can be a killer on order executions..
    <This Ad Space for Rent or Sale>

  13. #13
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Of course they didn't respond to me within the 48 hour promised time frame.

    I bet I won't hear from them until mid-next-week, when I will get a form letter telling me it's my bank's fault.

  14. #14
    Question Druff. After I guess building a relationship with Coinbase (which I despise as a company but that's another story), they allow me to take instantly 3k from any credit card for btc. That limit is per week meaning I can immediately take 3k and then 24 hours later I can take the prorated amount of 3k divided by 7 or in 7 days have another 3k.

    The fees I was charged the last time I did this was 3.5%. Of course not ideal but after using a credit card with a 3% rebate or even searching for a 5% offer, it greatly helps. Why wouldn't you do this instead of using a credit card?

    Also, I haven't deposited on Bovada/ignition in ages but with ACR my deposits have either occurred within minutes or in one instance the longest was an hour and that was in all cases spending a minimal fee for the transfer.

    Lastly, why don't you keep some btc and if you're afraid of the swings just keep it as USD in the wallet of your choosing and just convert it to btc as needed?



    GS



    ZoD

  15. #15
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexel View Post
    Question Druff. After I guess building a relationship with Coinbase (which I despise as a company but that's another story), they allow me to take instantly 3k from any credit card for btc. That limit is per week meaning I can immediately take 3k and then 24 hours later I can take the prorated amount of 3k divided by 7 or in 7 days have another 3k.

    The fees I was charged the last time I did this was 3.5%. Of course not ideal but after using a credit card with a 3% rebate or even searching for a 5% offer, it greatly helps. Why wouldn't you do this instead of using a credit card?

    Also, I haven't deposited on Bovada/ignition in ages but with ACR my deposits have either occurred within minutes or in one instance the longest was an hour and that was in all cases spending a minimal fee for the transfer.

    Lastly, why don't you keep some btc and if you're afraid of the swings just keep it as USD in the wallet of your choosing and just convert it to btc as needed?



    GS



    ZoD
    Reasonable questions.

    I just ran out of BTC. Never had a whole lot, ran bad, that was that.

    I also despise Coinbase, and I am not up to the stage where I can make instant deposits with them, and I don't want to waste the time building that up. There's also BTC transaction fees which are very high right now. I might save a slight amount, but overall the amount of money I'm saving is very small, and the whole thing is a pain in the ass. The worst part is waiting for the BTC transaction to confirm, especially if I'm in a good game and want to reload immediately.

    If I make a BTC cashout next time I run it up, I will just hold onto them (within reason) and just take a chance regarding the value.

  16. #16
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    BUMP

    Chinese processors sure been busy this week scamming people.

    Now a BetOnline credit card processor also scammed me for around the same ($41) on the same date August 28. Also based in China.

    Different indicator on my CC statement, this one being "Department Stores" (lol)

  17. #17
    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexel View Post
    Lastly, why don't you keep some btc and if you're afraid of the swings just keep it as USD in the wallet of your choosing and just convert it to btc as needed?

    GS

    ZoD



    I mentioned this a few times and others have too. Why not just have 5k or whatever as a backup available to you in the exchange converted to USD where you don't deal with the swings of the coin and can buy some up instantly when you like?

    If Druff ran horribly I get it but it's likely he isn't leaving himself enough when he has ran good and just selling off on a place like localbitcoins once he gets the money without leaving himself that cushion to work with when he wants it.

    It's not as if he is a young kid needing that money instantly to pay his monthly bills.

    It's been a while since I deposited on Bovada but if it's the same as before which is also like Ignition then I usually am approved right away on deposits. A few times I had to wait for one confirmation but still get that money loaded before your bankroll on the site gets too low for the games you are playing otherwise if you get in a juicy game low on funds then it's your fault and not the sites

    After having my information sold and hearing about that happening a lot of places for people using credit cards no thanks it's bitcoin only for me with these third world sites. I don't trust the low paid workers of the site or the credit processors they use not to roll me in some way.

    You probably have a better chance of getting Bovada to refund you these additional credit fees then BetOnline.

  18. #18
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Betonline immediately agreed to give me the $40.95 BACK.

    Bovada still hasn't done shit, despite their "48 hour" promise.

    What a bunch of cocksuckers.

  19. #19
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Called up Bovada today and asked why the fuck it was taking 4 days (with still no update).

    I was told to patiently wait, at which point I refused, because it's been long enough. I told them I considered this a fraudulent charge on my credit card (which it is -- at least partially).

    After speaking to a supervisor and getting nowhere, she finally agreed to track down the "financial services" team, which is code for middle management there. Financial services is the same department which closes people's accounts for abusing bonuses, sports multiaccounting, poker cheating, etc.

    I got someone on the phone (based in the Philippines -- NOT the Canadian office) in that department who was very obnoxious, and told me that my refund of the $79.26 was



    I was getting really pissed.

    Why was I denied?

    Because she said it was a "currency conversion charge", which is a bunch of bullshit.

    First off, if there is such a charge, it's up to the processor to factor that into the billing.

    Second, US credit cards don't work that way. When charged in a foreign currency, the conversion to USD is done at the going currency rate -- and the actual one, not the crappy one your banks give you when you receive a foreign wire or whatever.

    Some banks do have a "foreign transaction" fee, but it's nowhere near 8%, and my bank does not have such a fee.

    (This is why it's always wise to use a credit card with no foreign transaction fees when traveling abroad, as you are getting the true conversion rate at all times!)

    I also noted that the so-called "conversion rate" was about 8%, which definitely would never be charged in a credit card transaction. And even if for some reason it was (like on China's end), again, that is not the Bovada customer's problem.

    If you are told you will be charged $529.50, then you should be charged $529.50, not $569.13. That's an egregious difference.

    I told her that I knew this was skimming/fraud. She kept insisting that it was "conversion fees", but could not explain who charged them or in what manner they were charged. Was it supposedly my bank? Their bank? Someone else? She couldn't answer that.

    But she reiterated that they would not be reimbursing me the $79.26 because "Bovada doesn't benefit from that overcharge", which might be true, but I shouldn't have to pay for their processor's fraud/mistake/whatever!

    She told me the decision was final.

    At this point I flipped out. I told them that I would cause the company great harm if I was cheated out of this $79.26. I also reminded her that I'm a known player (I even told her to look at Wikipedia, lulz) and run PFA Radio, and could really cause their reputation harm. I also reminded her that I know about tons of their processors and could be a huge pain in the ass if I wanted to be.

    "I'm not asking for money back that I lost. In fact, I'm winning since making these deposits. I just want the money back which was stolen from me, and I'm not going to rest until that happens," I concluded.

    She put me on hold, looked up that I really was on Wikipedia and had a radio show (not kidding here), and came back agreeing to a $79.26 "one time exception" refund. I was told that if I use credit cards again and get overcharged, it will be tough luck on me.

    I told her that was a stupid way to handle their processors being shady, but I guess they don't want to keep refunding $40 every time their processors steal, because that comes out of their pockets, and they're probably afraid to confront the processor about it to get the money BACK.

    Anyway, I guess it's bitcoin only for me on Bovada/Ignition going forward.

    Lame.

    If anyone here is selling BTC, I'm buying.

  20. #20
    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    I'm surprised Bet Online agreed on a refund those guys have given me hell in the past.

    Not sure I would want to pull the professional player card out with a site that despises pros over $79 in fees knowing it could ruin my action down if they start limiting withdrawals or giving the famous Carbon Poker gtfo to big winners but I'm glad you received a refund.

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