Should league member be liable.....IS THIS A MATTER OF SCAMMING OR ETHICS?

[AhoosierA]

I'm part of a small tight nit Facebook poker page (not RealGrinders! LOL) and we regularly run a league whether it be for a WSOP seat or a WSOPc Main Event Seat. (Our most recent completely league gave away 4 - $2.5k packages ---- $1.5k WSOP Buy-in + $1k travel money)

The league is played out over a 20 week period. 10 tournaments total spaced out every other week. The league cost is $500 but we allow members to break it down into 10 - $50 payments.

In the past this has never been a problem as again, it's a pretty small tight nit group.

This past week, a member of the league messaged the organizer that his work schedule had changed, and that his schedule with his child had changed and that he was going to have to quit the league. The league was 5 weeks in and he had $250 already invested. The organizer asked if he was going to still pay the $250 as he was already committed to the league. Instead of responding he SNAP deleted himself from the page and unfriended the organizer.

It was explained when the league was formed that if you quit the league for any reason you're to forfeit the league buy-in. ($500). He is trying to claim he thought he would just forfeit what he had put in and is refusing to pay the extra $250.

In your opinion is he a scammer by scamming the league out of $250....or is this just poor ethics?

-----A side note, and what many others believe.....he was dead last in the league as several poor performances....
-----In the last league he was the league champ and won a $2.5k seat.

[SrslySirius]

The league cost is $500 but we allow members to break it down into 10 - $50 payments.

-----A side note, and what many others believe.....he was dead last in the league as several poor performances....

Of course this is going to happen if you allow installments. There's no incentive to keep playing. Even amongst friends, that's such a short-sighted system.

It was explained when the league was formed that if you quit the league for any reason you're to forfeit the league buy-in. ($500).

Everything hinges on this, so if you want any useful feedback you should post the exact wording. I would lean toward him being on the hook for the remaining $250, but if that's not spelled out clearly then obv he could have misunderstood and wouldn't be obligated.

[Dan Druff]

SrslySirius is correct.

If you spelled it out clearly when the league started, then yes, he scammed you guys out of $250.

I actually had something similar happen in a 5-man fantasy baseball league. The league is comprised of me, my brother, a longtime friend of my brother's (who I also got to be friends with, as well), another doctor they both knew, and a fifth guy who is a medical equipment vendor.

The league buyin is $500 per year, and each person gets 2 teams.

There is also a last place penalty of $100 (which goes into that year's prizepool) as well as a $50 second-to-last penalty (also added to prizepool).

Well, that other doctor decided he was done with the league, and went really inactive in 2016. Not surprisingly, one of his teams finished last, so he owed $100. The $500 entry fee is always collected up front, so that's never an issue.

Anyway, I kept asking the guy repeatedly, and he kept stalling me. Finally, after countless attempts to get the $100 from him, we just gave up, and subtracted it from the 2016 prizepool retroactively, which ended up fucking my brother the most (because he won) and me second-most.

The amazing thing is that this dude is a doctor who makes a lot of money, and he decided to roll us for $100. And keep in mind that he knew both my brother and my brother's friend, so it's not like he was just some stranger. But I guess he doesn't see them anymore, so he felt like he didn't feel like paying the penalty.

Bottom line is that you have to collect up front everything you can. Obviously that's not possible with a last-place penalty, but entry fees should be paid in full before it all starts.

[SrslySirius]

I think the installment system is actually worse than settling up after the season.

[Dan Druff]

I think the installment system is actually worse than settling up after the season.

We don't settle up after the season. Everyone puts up the $500 to me (who obviously won't roll anyone), and I distribute the prizes. The only thing I can't collect in advance is the last/second-to-last penalty. That's only $150 of the $2650 prize pool, so it's not a huge deal, but it was just annoying when that doctor wouldn't cough up his $100.

I'm assuming he just got tired of the league, felt he contributed enough by paying $500 to enter and then giving up in the middle, and didn't feel like kicking in the extra $100, even though this was agreed to beforehand.

[SrslySirius]

We don't settle up after the season.

Oh, I know. I was generalizing. In AhoosierA's case I think it would actually be better. Still awful, but better.

[AhoosierA]

Thanks for the opinions guys.

I personally thought it was a scam. I think there is 0% chance that if he were in the top 3 in contention for a seat/package he would quit like this. We've discussed making adjustments to the wordage of "forfeiting" for future leagues.

I would prefer settling up prior to the league, however a majority of the group are "everyday working people" and $500 up front would simply not be feasible. By allowing the installment payments we get a steady 25-35 league members. We understand the risks, this is just our first time dealing with it! (In the previous league we had 2 members not able to finish but still paid their full $500)