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Thread: Kermit the Frog: Serious business

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Kermit the Frog: Serious business

    How could sweet Kermit ever be controversial? I first saw him on "The Muppet Show" in 1976, and then noticed he was also a regular part of Sesame Street. In both shows, Kermit maintained a positive attitude and tried hard, but was bullied by every single character he came in contact with. Even Cookie Monster and Kermit's girlfiriend Miss Piggy dealt him regular abuse.

    Still, Kermit was never bitter, and kept doing his job in workmanlike fashion.

    His dedication to his craft earned him an emoticon here.



    That's why I was absolutely shocked when Kermit became the center of controversy this week.

    This is Steve Whitmire. He took over doing the voice for Kermit in 1990, when Jim Henson abruptly fell ill and died at the age of 53. He and Henson were close, and in fact Whitmire was present in the hospital when Henson died.



    The news broke on Wednesday last week that Whitmire had been fired from his job as Kermit's voice, after 27 years on the job. He got out ahead of the story by posting a blog announcing his own firing, and talked about "offering multiple remedies to two stated issues" which led to the firing.

    Well, this kicked off a shitstorm of responses. Disney (the current owner of The Muppets) had hoped to quietly replace Whitmire, and was likely hoping that his firing would simply be seen as a change of direction, or perhaps bringing in a younger voice to the character. However, Whitmire's blog painted Disney as being intractable and unreasonable, so this warranted a response.

    Disney fired back, basically saying that Whitmire was an asshole who was impossible to work with.

    Disney and The Muppets Studio have a differing interpretation of the terms of Whitmire's departure, stating that the actor exhibited "unacceptable business conduct." A source close to the studio told THR that Whitmire's communication style was "overly hostile and unproductive" and his way of negotiation delayed productions. His persistent unprofessional behavior over a number of years ultimately led to the decision, the source said.

    "The role of Kermit the Frog is an iconic one that is beloved by fans and we take our responsibility to protect the integrity of that character very seriously," a spokesperson for The Muppets Studio told THR in a statement. "We raised concerns about Steve's repeated unacceptable business conduct over a period of many years and he consistently failed to address the feedback. The decision to part ways was a difficult one which was made in consultation with the Henson family and has their full support."
    Whitmire claimed that he was fired simply because he was "outspoken on character issues" regarding Kermit.

    "The first issue was that they felt I had been 'disrespectful' in being outspoken on character issues with the small group of top creative people during the ABC series," said Whitmire, who had been working with the Muppets since 1978. "I have been outspoken about what's best for the Muppets since the Muppets came to Disney [2004], but the fact is I have respect for everyone who was involved in the creation of that series for their own particular contributions. At the same time, I also have insight into their limitations with respect to how well they know the Muppets."
    Character issues with Kermit? Is this great, or what?

    Jim Henson's son, Brian, also joined the shit-talk fest yesterday. Apparently he thought Whitmire was a stubborn dickhead for a long time, and regretted keeping his mouth shut when his family sold The Muppets to Disney. Brian Henson feared that Disney didn't replace Whitmire due to the erroneous belief that he was still a close friend of the Henson family, when in reality the remaining Henson family hated him by that point.

    "I have to say, in hindsight, I feel pretty guilty that I burdened Disney by not having recast Kermit at that point because I knew that it was going to be a real problem," Henson told THR. "And I have always offered that if they wanted to recast Kermit, I was all for it, and I would absolutely help. I am very glad we have done this now. I think the character is better served to remove this destructive energy around it."

    ...

    Despite being a fantastic technical puppeteer and impersonator, Henson said Whitmire made "outrageous demands and often played brinkmanship," which he was warned as far back as the mid-1990s needed to stop. Henson declined to go into specifics about Whitmire's exact demands, but did say, "Steve would use 'I am now Kermit and if you want the Muppets, you better make me happy because the Muppets are Kermit.' And that is really not OK."

    Now, before you believe that Whitmire was the only crazy one here, read the rest of what Brian Henson had to say:

    "There was an awful lot of stuff to Kermit where people thought, 'Oh, Kermit is a wholesome, all-American lovely guy,' which was not really what my dad developed," Henson said. "What my dad developed was that Kermit the Frog is a little bit of a prankster, he likes to put an act on stage that will shock you and is kind of weird. But, Kermit the Frog, when push comes to shove, is loyal and believes in the family of friends. Kermit believes you should love and respect the being most different from you because of how different they are."

    He added: "So there was a lot of complexities to Kermit that have been kind of falling away, and I do believe Matt Vogel can access that energy really well. And Matt is a very good performer. And I believe that in protecting Kermit going forward, Matt will do a really wonderful job. I think the fans should not be so scared of change. Steve did Kermit for a very long time — I would say for far too long. And the character was no longer being serviced by Steve performing Kermit."
    WTF is this guy talking about? Kermit was a prankster? He would shock you on stage?

    Absolutely not. Kermit was always the ultimate straight man, and he was played that way all the way up until Jim Henson's 1990 death. I admit I haven't seen much of Kermit since then, but I'm pretty surprised that Jim Henson's own son misunderstood his dad's most iconic character so badly.

    Apparently Whitmire was fired just for being a difficult asshole, which I believe was true, but the straw that broke the camel's back was an angry note he left regarding a scene where Kermit lied to his nephew, regarding his breakup with Miss Piggy. The scene in question took place on the short-lived ABC revival of The Muppets in 2016. Apparently that set the wheels in motion for Whitmire's firing, and he knew it might be coming, but he was only officially fired recently.

    "I don't think Kermit would lie to him," Whitmire explained. "I think that as Robin came to Kermit, he would say 'things happen, people go their separate ways, but that doesn't mean we don't care about you.' Kermit is too compassionate to lie to him to spare his feelings."

    This really is the gift that keeps on giving. I can't wait to read the next chapter in this saga!

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    According to Henson's daughter, the reason he was fired is because he turned Kermit into, quote, "a bitter, angry, depressed victim."


    At which point I said "ok that makes sense" and moved on with my life.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    On a side note, I want to say that Jim Henson was a really nice guy when I met him in the late 1970s. I was a big fan of The Muppet Show, and despite its immense success, Henson still made personal appearances and worked with kids.

    My mom took me to a local arts-and-crafts place where Henson was appearing, and he helped all of us make paper mache Kermits.

    At the time, I didn't realize how cool it was that The Muppet Show creator was doing this for ordinary kids who wanted to come down and meet him, but after I got older, I thought back to it and was very impressed.

    Jim Henson died in 1990 due to streptococcal toxic shock syndrome, which is basically a bacterial infection which can kill you within 2 days if you don't go in for immediate surgery to get it removed. Henson chose not to go to the ER when he was feeling ill, and by the time he went, he was coughing up blood, and it was too late. Henson seemed to have the same aversion to going to ERs that I do (I only go when I really feel it's necessary), and I thought about him 3 years ago when I couldn't keep any liquids down but still refused to go to the ER, unless it persisted for a longer time.

    Brian Henson should probably worry about his own longevity, as the genes in that family apparently aren't too good. Jim Henson's other son, John, died abruptly in 2014 of a heart attack, at age 48.

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    I believe Jim Henson was also HIV+, no?


    Disregard, apparently he was happily married so the odds are slim. There was another muppeteer who did die of AIDS shortly after Henson and I assume thats where my wires got crossed.

    He appeared to die of strep, like you said.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    According to Henson's daughter, the reason he was fired is because he turned Kermit into, quote, "a bitter, angry, depressed victim."


    At which point I said "ok that makes sense" and moved on with my life.
    Could that really be true, though? I would think that the writers of Kermit's character have more power over his lines than the puppeteer/voice guy does.

    I just imagine that Whitmire decided that he was basically the new Jim Henson upon Henson's death, likely becoming arrogant and difficult to deal with. It probably was frustrating to have him aggressively make demands regarding the direction of Kermit's character, when that wasn't really his job, and when he wasn't even a part of the Henson family.

    With that said, Whitmire probably did have a point that they were fucking up the Kermit character, but he probably attached too much of his own identity to it.

    At the end of the day, Kermit is just a puppet for kids.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    I believe Jim Henson was also HIV+, no?


    Disregard, apparently he was happily married so the odds are slim. There was another muppeteer who did die of AIDS shortly after Henson and I assume thats where my wires got crossed.

    He appeared to die of strep, like you said.
    Some conspiracy theorists spread this rumor -- that Henson was actually gay, and died of AIDS. Since AIDS itself doesn't kill you, but rather the susceptibility to diseases does, the explanation offered was that the bacterial infection was just what ended up getting him because his immune system was gone.

    I don't believe this. Henson appeared in good health up until abruptly falling ill on that trip where he died, and that doesn't follow the pattern of the typical AIDS death.

    The guy just ran really bad by getting this fairly unusual and quickly deadly infection, and he didn't do himself any favors by avoiding getting treated for too long.

     
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    oh look.

    grown men talking about Muppets.

    What's next? a TED talk about Fraggle Rock?


    (can't make this shit up if i tried)

     
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    Gold Kuntmissioner's Avatar
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    I was under the impression he died of pneumonia, and didnt go to the hospital because he was a Christian Scientist.

    Urban legends galore with this guy.

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntmissioner View Post
    I was under the impression he died of pneumonia, and didnt go to the hospital because he was a Christian Scientist.

    Urban legends galore with this guy.

    I did some googling when I was curious about the HIV and as druff said, this shit kills so fast that pretty much anyone who doesnt get out of bed and get in front of a doctor can expect to die, horribly.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Platinum ftpjesus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntmissioner View Post
    I was under the impression he died of pneumonia, and didnt go to the hospital because he was a Christian Scientist.

    Urban legends galore with this guy.
    Nah it was a nasty case of Strep a version which is a close cousin to the infamous flesh eating bacteria..

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntmissioner View Post
    I was under the impression he died of pneumonia, and didnt go to the hospital because he was a Christian Scientist.

    Urban legends galore with this guy.
    The Christian Science thing might have some truth to it, but probably not.

    It is not entirely clear why Henson didn't go to the ER. Some theorized that his Christian Science beliefs kept him from the hospital, but that doesn't explain why he went anyway once things got more dire.

    The prevailing theory was that he was simply someone who didn't like needlessly going to the ER, and was in denial about the seriousness about the matter until it became too late.

    Interestingly, despite being on the road, his ex-wife was with him the whole time as this was occurring. She kept encouraging him to go the ER, but he didn't want to. Apparently they were still good friends despite the divorce.

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    Gold Wiganer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntmissioner View Post
    I was under the impression he died of pneumonia, and didnt go to the hospital because he was a Christian Scientist.

    Urban legends galore with this guy.
    The Christian Science thing might have some truth to it, but probably not.

    It is not entirely clear why Henson didn't go to the ER. Some theorized that his Christian Science beliefs kept him from the hospital, but that doesn't explain why he went anyway once things got more dire.

    The prevailing theory was that he was simply someone who didn't like needlessly going to the ER, and was in denial about the seriousness about the matter until it became too late.
    What a muppet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyde View Post
    I stay to myself and keep out of trouble and/or potentially problematic scenarios

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    BUMP

    In an unrelated matter, Sesame Street is now suing the makers of the upcoming film, "The Happytime Murders".

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/27/enter...rnd/index.html

    It's a stupid-looking comedy with Melissa McCarthy where she plays a cop working with a muppet to solve murders.

    It's raunchy and not for kids.



    The lawsuit is regarding the film's tagline, "No Sesame. All Street."

    Brian Henson, son of Jim Henson, is directing it.

    The makers, STX Entertainment, put out the following statement:

    STX loved the idea of working closely with Brian Henson and the Jim Henson Company to tell the untold story of the active lives of Henson puppets when they're not performing in front of children. While we're disappointed that 'Sesame Street' does not share in the fun, we are confident in our legal position. We look forward to introducing adult moviegoers to our adorably unapologetic characters this summer.

    Having been a fan of Jim Henson as a kid and later reading about his career as an adult, I can't imagine he would have signed off on a film like this. He didn't mind his muppets involved in cartoonish violence, but he was always very insistent that the characters were overall wholesome and always aimed at kids. Brian seems like a douche, though, so it doesn't surprise me that he's perverting the characters his dad created.

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