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Thread: Two thumbs up! I got into it with Phil Hellmuth at the table today

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Two thumbs up! I got into it with Phil Hellmuth at the table today

    Phil Hellmuth showed up at my $1500 Limit Holdem WSOP table after several hours of play, as is the usual case with him.

    He was 2 to my left.

    He was wearing his Golden State Warriors gear, which made me wonder at first if he had been to the game, and then flew to Vegas on a private jet or something. (It turned out he was in Vegas, and just showed up late to the event.)

    Phil was uncharacteristically quiet, choosing to tune everyone out with headphones.

    I didn't say anything to him. I considered needling him about UB again, but we had already been through that before (at the Main Event featured table in 2009), so I wasn't going to bother.

    Then I found myself on the BB with 7s4s. Phil threw a $1000 chip in (the blinds were 250-500), and said nothing. However, he did a "thumbs up" motion in the air, as he threw the chip. The dealer announced "raise", and everyone folded to my blind.

    I then asked, "What's the rule regarding that? Does a thumbs up constitute a raise?"

    The dealer replied, "Well, I said raise when he did it."

    "Yes, I know that," I answered. "But I want to know the rule on this. Does that make it a raise or not?"

    The dealer didn't know. She called the floor.

    Phil was looking really irritated. Finally, he started to berate me.

    "I hope you're proud of yourself, wasting everyone's time like this," he said.

    "I just want to know the rule. I seriously don't know if that's a raise, and if it's not, then it needs to be a call," I replied.

    Phil shot back, "If you were in my cash game, you wouldn't last through the day doing stuff like this."

    I replied, "I've been in your cash game before. And I did last through the day. Well, maybe not on UB."

    The floorman came over and ruled it a call, stating that the "thumbs up" motion is meaningless.

    I checked, and the board came a very favorable 5s8s2c.

    I check-raised Phil, and then the beautiful Ts showed up on the turn. I bet, Phil called. A blank hit the river, I bet, Phil called. He flashed KK and was pissed.

    "You're the only one at the table that would have done this," said Phil, which was an odd statement, given that he didn't know anyone there.

    "How can you say that?", I asked him. "You don't know any of these people."

    "I'll bet you $10k right now that all of these people wouldn't have done this. You want action? Let's bet $10k right now, and see if anyone says they'd have done this."

    "You better watch out," I said. "Maybe I have a buddy at the table who will say that they would, and then I'll win your $10k."

    The talk of the $10k bet died down at that point.

    He then went on to threaten to take a picture of me and post it on his Twitter, "to make everyone aware of how you make moves like that."

    Phil was still muttering to himself.

    "25 years I've been playing. 25 years (actually more like 30). And not once have I ever seen where the thumbs up doesn't mean raise."

    "Again, I just wanted to know the rule. It's the same thing as throwing out a chip and forgetting to say raise. The intention doesn't matter. The action is what matters", I said.

    Phil was getting even more pissed.

    "You just decided to do something unethical so you could gain a little extra edge," he lectured. "Ethical players don't do things like this."

    "You really want to go there?", I shot back. "You represented a site which stole everyone's money TWICE. They kept stealing, and you still kept representing them as the face of the site."

    "I was cleared in that situation, with no wrongdoing", Phil said. Who cleared him?

    "You were cleared, huh? I don't see how you could be cleared when you were still promoting the site after they cheated everyone, and then they stole all the money on top of that."

    Phil then told me that his book "explaining everything" is coming out tomorrow, and that I should read it.

    He finished off by saying, "I've wasted enough time on this. I'm done talking about it." But then he kept muttering throughout the next half hour about the thumbs up thing. I just ignored him at that point.

    Phil lost most of the rest of his stack when a guy with AQ high ran him down to make a 1-card straight, and cracked Phil's AA. He then berated that player, who just said, "I got lucky". Phil continued berating him.

    He busted shortly afterwards, and got up without saying a word.

    There was the potential for more fireworks near the end of the day when Justin Bonomo was moved to my table in the seat next to me, but we didn't say a word to one another.

    I finished the day with 19,200 in chips, with 133/616 left in the field. Average chips is about 35k.

     
    Comments
      
      Tellafriend: Good for you
      
      Wiganer: Well played
      
      Brittney Griner's Clit: OMG
      
      GambleBotsChafedPenis: Fuck Phil Rep
      
      MumblesBadly: Fucking gold! Phil Hellmuth can stuff that thumb-raising gesture up his smug ass!!! LOL!
      
      Baron Von Strucker: phill is such a ass
      
      IamGreek: No cameras. Good on ya Sir!
      
      Matt The Rat: Good for not backing down
      
      nunbeater: Phil can fuck right off
      
      SrslySirius: Outstanding
      
      sah_24: awesome druff is god
      
      GrenadaRoger: Tell Helmuth "the floor ruling cleared Druff of wrongdoing, so stop complaining"
      
      Forum Wars: Unconscious Metagame Karma ftw
      
      FPS_Russia: Idiots from Northern Europe rep.
      
      drufdajewgod: I agree with almost every word Phil said. Thats just me.
      
      Shizzmoney: lol
      
      Mdwst Hstlr: Thumbs up

  2. #2
    PFA Golden Donkey michael's Avatar
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    Take it down Druff!

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    Platinum duped_samaritan's Avatar
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    Name:  poker_g_hellmuth_195.jpg
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      Dan Druff:

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    PFA Golden Donkey michael's Avatar
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    Comments
      
      Dan Druff: hahaha
      
      hongkonger: Serendipitous
      
      Wiganer: Lol
      
      BlunderMaker: HOF
      
      Baron Von Strucker:
      
      Sheesfaced: Amazing
      
      ToasterOven: nice, robot
      
      nunbeater: lollerskatees

  5. #5
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    Druff, you don´t get emontional to the point it effects your game in situations like this?

  6. #6
    Platinum devidee's Avatar
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    Old school NWPer is leading this event right now.

  7. #7
    Plutonium Brittney Griner's Clit's Avatar
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    That's insanely hilarious.

    1. He did the up and down thumb motion

    2. Dealer verbally confirms his early position raise.

    3. It folds all the way around to the big blind before you say anything.

    4. It's Phil fucking Helmuth who owns the damn place.


    I would have lost so much money betting the result of that floor ruling. Todd really is God.

  8. #8
    Plutonium Brittney Griner's Clit's Avatar
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    Honestly if this was a huge spot for Phil he would have kept calling floormen over until one ruled in his favor I believe. I don't think you did anything unethical by asking that's for sure. You weren't screaming and demanding it to be ruled in your favor, you were just asking. But the dealer confirming it as a raise and all that action from folks believing it was a raise is just way too big to ignore for any decent floorman. I'm guessing he didn't blow up too hard on the floor man after being ruled against because it's basically a wash probably in his head between taking his kk heads up into you and there being a chance you fold and him just winning the blinds. You going on to win the hand is irrelevant. When the ruling was made it was neutral for Phil.



    Edit: The whole things is so bizarre to me. What if lets say a deaf person that straight up doesn't speak or a person mute for another reason enters the tournament? That guy is just fucked?????

    Floor- "That sum bitch should have gotten change before the hand started."




    Re-edit: I still can't believe this ruling honestly. As soon as the floor arrived on the scene did you do the smart thing and quickly ask before anyone else could talk, "Does thumbs up constitute a raise"? Then the floor said no and he was on his way? Or was the entire hand explained to the floor from beginning to end the typical way? I can only see it working out for you if it was the former.
    Last edited by Brittney Griner's Clit; 06-13-2017 at 06:07 AM. Reason: Todd is Godd

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    Remember the time I was on radio and you stopped me from asking Phil one of my very thought provoking questions?


    Yea, I member.

    via Imgflip Meme Generator

  10. #10
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    Pretty sure that is an incorrect floor ruling.

     
    Comments
      
      sonatine: seriously
      
      ToasterOven: agree

  11. #11
    Master of Props Daly's Avatar
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    I got your picture right here Phillip.

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      Brittney Griner's Clit: Where the fuck is the Miranda room?

  12. #12
    Gold Charham's Avatar
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    Amazing composure. Surprised people don't physically attack Phil.

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    Platinum ftpjesus's Avatar
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    I can tell you in AZ house rules in places I've played one chip is considered a call especially when it's the next highest denomination unless you verbalized a raise before you put it in. House rules generally are one chip is a call and two or more is a raise. Avoids any confusion. For all anybody knew Phil was just calling with an over chip he needed change for. This just goes back to the verbal statements are the ones binding much like that bullshit angle shooting that happened a few days ago regarding the call vs raise with the clown playing with his chips. Can't say it was an angle by Hellmuth more like just Phil being Phil and expecting people to just let him do whatever the hell he felt like at the moment.

  14. #14
    Plutonium Brittney Griner's Clit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftpjesus View Post
    I can tell you in AZ house rules in places I've played one chip is considered a call especially when it's the next highest denomination unless you verbalized a raise before you put it in. House rules generally are one chip is a call and two or more is a raise. Avoids any confusion. For all anybody knew Phil was just calling with an over chip he needed change for. This just goes back to the verbal statements are the ones binding much like that bullshit angle shooting that happened a few days ago regarding the call vs raise with the clown playing with his chips. Can't say it was an angle by Hellmuth more like just Phil being Phil and expecting people to just let him do whatever the hell he felt like at the moment.
    He didn't just plop an oversize chip out. Phil looked at the dealer while motioning up and down with his thumb. The dealer said "raise". Phil then threw out his one chip. Like seven people folded to the "raise". There are like zero games on the planet where that isn't a raise. The only way possible this went down is if it's like I said. Todd is Godd got the first word in. Phil probably didn't say much because how much are you gonna really argue to possibly not play your KK heads up. Then Phil loses the hand and all hell breaks loose. I've seen old ass men raise in this exact fashion my whole life and it's super annoying and a waste of time but I've never seen it questioned. With that said I would have certainly given Todd is Godd the go sign for that 10k bet if I was at the table lol.
    Last edited by Brittney Griner's Clit; 06-13-2017 at 07:28 AM.

  15. #15
    Plutonium simpdog's Avatar
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    I want to know if Daly was taking the pic of Hellmuth or Druff......or the girl in the corner with white shorts on.

  16. #16
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    Bad ruling. Once the dealer announces raise and no one objects and multuple people act it is a raise.

    If the play had been stopped before anyone acted to clarify you can argue it should be a call. But as described raise should stand 10/10 times.

     
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      ToasterOven:

  17. #17
    Silver BlunderMaker's Avatar
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    That ruling surprises me.

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    I also agree hellmuth would have made sure to get a correct ruling, but at that point he didn't really mind playing KK in position against a random hand.

  19. #19
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devidee View Post
    Old school NWPer is leading this event right now.
    I am curious who.... but not curious enough to look this up myself.

    You got an easy link?

  20. #20
    Diamond Hockey Guy's Avatar
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    Yeah, bad ruling since there was so much action as a raise before it got around to Druff but it was worth it for the lol's.
    (•_•) ..
    ∫\ \___( •_•)
    _∫∫ _∫∫ɯ \ \

    Quote Originally Posted by Hockey Guy
    I'd say good luck in the freeroll but I'm pretty sure you'll go on a bender to self-sabotage yourself & miss it completely or use it as the excuse of why you didn't cash.

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