Is anyone actually beating these live MTT, or is it all a scam and the house is taking all the $$$

[ErickAA]

Donno if this thread belongs in this forum or not, if not maybe move it to the other one. Anyways, the poker "media" seems to portray in a very positive light all these live MTT pros who are working the circuit. However, as more and more dirt is coming to light it appears noone is really beating these tournaments, and all the money is (was) coming from online poker sites, either through legitimate sponsorships or from Full Tilt giving out "loans" and giving Edog and Ivey huge chunks of money to spew off sponsoring people.

And it isn't even the "old school" live players either who appear to be coming out in the red. Even with all the hotshot young internet pros, it seems a huge chunk of them are broke/staked/scammers. I mean all you have to do is browse The Marketplace, NVG, High Stakes NL, and a few other forums and you realize how little real money it seems like all these guys reallly have.

It seems like really the only people that have money in the poker world are people who have outside income and live grinders (like Druff) most of whom noone knows who they are. It really does not seem like any celebrity, especially primarily MTT players, are really beating the game. Seems like it is all smoke and mirrors.

Is anyone legitimately beating these live tournaments? Opinions?

[nunbeater]

All the greatest players in the world are cash game guys that no one has ever fucking heard of because they keep quiet. I think MTTs used to be great because of all of the dead money but now there is a lot less of it. Pretty much the most consistent winner is the house. Fuck, I stopped playing some bar tourneys because the rake was so fucking high.

[Dan Druff]

There are some people beating them, but unfortunately most of them are shooting off the money in other ways, such as:

- Overspending
- Negative EV gambling in other areas, such as sports or pit games
- Playing high-stakes cash poker where they're not a favorite to win

I'm starting to become convinced that almost all of these high-stakes tourney pros are actually broke or will be very soon.

There's also the significant travel expenses associated with going around the world to play these tournaments.

[chinamaniac]

There are some people beating them, but unfortunately most of them are shooting off the money in other ways, such as:

- Overspending
- Negative EV gambling in other areas, such as sports or pit games
- Playing high-stakes cash poker where they're not a favorite to win

I'm starting to become convinced that almost all of these high-stakes tourney pros are actually broke or will be very soon.

There's also the significant travel expenses associated with going around the world to play these tournaments.

Matusow has been saying this for years about high stakes MTTS. He said everyone is going broke because of the rake and other leaks and that without Lindgren and Full Tilt there would be less than 200 people per MTT

Anyone have any idea how many players the WPTs are getting nowadays?

[sinner]

Druff mentioned this on filthy limper yesterday: http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news...stakes-grinder

http://www.pokerpages.com/player-pro...in-griffin.htm

[Jasep]

Its really hard to beat the rake and have a huge edge, but if you dont have any other life leaks and game select they can be profitable at years end IMO