Useless/duplicate/wasteful/scammy medical tests cost the US at least $200 billion

[Dan Druff]

This is the elephant in the room which neither party will talk about:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/20/news...sts/index.html

If you've been to the doctor, or especially the ER, you have been prescribed useless and wasteful medical tests, either to run up your bill or to protect them from liability.

A good example:

In 2014, I fainted during a bad stomach flu, and broke 3 ribs. A week later, I went to the ER when I had symptoms which seemed similar to a ruptured spleen, which is very dangerous.

Obviously any test related to the spleen was justified.

However, when I came into the ER, the first thing they did was bring an EKG machine to me. I asked, "Why an EKG? Why are you doing this?"

The response was, "We always take an EKG if you have pain anywhere near your heart."

"But I fell and broke my ribs last week. I know that. The reason for the pain at my ribs is very clear to me. I don't need any tests for that. I don't want this."

They wheeled the machine away.

I then second-guessed myself and texted my brother (a cardiology professor), asking if I made a mistake refusing the EKG under these circumstances. He texted back that I was 100% correct in doing so, and that indeed this was wasteful and useless in such a situation.

After the ER visit (which fortunately revealed no spleen damage), I got a bill in the mail. One of the elements listed was a coagulation test.

I couldn't imagine why they would have administered that.

I called the hospital and asked, "Why the coag test?"

"Well, we needed to know the results in case your spleen was ruptured and you needed surgery."

"Yeah, but if I needed surgery, couldn't you have done the coag test once you found that out? Why do it in advance when you don't know if surgery is necessary?"

"Well... umm... yes," they responded. "Look, no problem, we'll take that off the bill."

Again, my brother agreed this was just something done to pad the bill.


I have refused other bullshit tests which seemed clearly wasteful or extraneous.

My brother told me that a common trick in cardiology in recent years is the "nuclear stress test" -- something massively overused simply because it's expensive. Even worse, you are exposed to a lot of radiation, so this is a bad test to do unnecessarily even if you're getting it for free!

Bottom line is that we need to cut out waste and fraud first and foremost.

This line in the article is all you need to know:

To cut down on needless care, Cedars-Sinai arranged for doctors to be alerted electronically when they ordered tests or drugs that run contrary to 18 Choosing Wisely recommendations.

The hospital analyzed alerts from 26,424 patient encounters from 2013 to 2016. All of the guidelines were followed in 6% of those cases, or 1,591 encounters.

So this study found that, in all patient encounters where tests were ordered, doctors only did it properly 6% of the time.

And this was an internal study!!

[DonaldTrumpsHairPiece]

I am about to blow your mind Dan.

When a business gets to charge things to insurance the price is generally higher.

Secondly you have a better chance of dying by going to the hospital than not, seriously. What I am saying is the odds of your spleen being ruptured were lower than the odds of you dying due to an infection picked up at the hospital. Sure you need to check still don't get me wrong but the over is on you dying from something else free of charge.

[ErickAA]

I agree the medical industry is not terribly efficient. But it is a lot more complicated than just saying "make it more efficient and save $$". For good or bad All that "wasted $2B" employs A LOT of people, directly and indirectly, and also supports all the medical advances we enjoy.

I am not sure if we made every thing lean and mean it would really be a good thing for the medical field or our society as a whole in the long run.

In the near future as robotics takes over and we become more and more efficient, and more and more jobs are lost or are not needed, the entire capitalist system itsel is going to come to a crosseoads and I think we are in real danger of class warfare as tha majority of non skilled persons will not be able to find satisfactory employment and have enough $$ to function in society.

[Lord of the Fraud]

$200 billion worth of corruption/waste.... And that's just in the medical sector!

Imagine if the swamp truly was fully drained. Because it's crooked politicians who 'legally' in most cases push through dirty legislation which benefits big business far greater than it does the people they're supposed to be representing.

The corruption likely runs into the many trillions of dollars per year. Imagine the good YOUR money could do?

Lower taxes
Free healthcare for all US citizens
Improved infrastructure
Education
Help clean up the ghettos. Get kids coming outa school into jobs rather than gangs = less crime.
Etc. etc.

Problem is, the corruption runs so deep and goes right up the political chain. It is 100% impossible to reverse. As politically. Once your hands are dirty, they're forever dirty.

Only a revolution by ordinary Americans would change anything. And I actually think that would probably happen too if the curtain was fully drawn back.

[limitles]

This is the elephant in the room which neither party will talk about:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/20/news...sts/index.html

If you've been to the doctor, or especially the ER, you have been prescribed useless and wasteful medical tests, either to run up your bill or to protect them from liability.

A good example:

In 2014, I fainted during a bad stomach flu, and broke 3 ribs. A week later, I went to the ER when I had symptoms which seemed similar to a ruptured spleen, which is very dangerous.

Obviously any test related to the spleen was justified.

However, when I came into the ER, the first thing they did was bring an EKG machine to me. I asked, "Why an EKG? Why are you doing this?"

The response was, "We always take an EKG if you have pain anywhere near your heart."

"But I fell and broke my ribs last week. I know that. The reason for the pain at my ribs is very clear to me. I don't need any tests for that. I don't want this."

They wheeled the machine away.

I then second-guessed myself and texted my brother (a cardiology professor), asking if I made a mistake refusing the EKG under these circumstances. He texted back that I was 100% correct in doing so, and that indeed this was wasteful and useless in such a situation.

After the ER visit (which fortunately revealed no spleen damage), I got a bill in the mail. One of the elements listed was a coagulation test.

I couldn't imagine why they would have administered that.

I called the hospital and asked, "Why the coag test?"

"Well, we needed to know the results in case your spleen was ruptured and you needed surgery."

"Yeah, but if I needed surgery, couldn't you have done the coag test once you found that out? Why do it in advance when you don't know if surgery is necessary?"

"Well... umm... yes," they responded. "Look, no problem, we'll take that off the bill."

Again, my brother agreed this was just something done to pad the bill.


I have refused other bullshit tests which seemed clearly wasteful or extraneous.

My brother told me that a common trick in cardiology in recent years is the "nuclear stress test" -- something massively overused simply because it's expensive. Even worse, you are exposed to a lot of radiation, so this is a bad test to do unnecessarily even if you're getting it for free!

Bottom line is that we need to cut out waste and fraud first and foremost.

This line in the article is all you need to know:

To cut down on needless care, Cedars-Sinai arranged for doctors to be alerted electronically when they ordered tests or drugs that run contrary to 18 Choosing Wisely recommendations.

The hospital analyzed alerts from 26,424 patient encounters from 2013 to 2016. All of the guidelines were followed in 6% of those cases, or 1,591 encounters.

So this study found that, in all patient encounters where tests were ordered, doctors only did it properly 6% of the time.

And this was an internal study!!

In other words allowing monopolies the right to charge as they please is not in the best interest of the majority. If limits are not predefined, the option is to take it to court where again there are few predetermined limits

[The_Lurker]

And yet as fucked up as our entire health care system is.....


All we talk about when it comes to "healthcare reform" is "Obama Care" and "Trump Care"


Wake up America, you are being taken for a ride.

[Hockey Guy]

This is the elephant in the room which neither party will talk about:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/20/news...sts/index.html

If you've been to the doctor, or especially the ER, you have been prescribed useless and wasteful medical tests, either to run up your bill or to protect them from liability.

A good example:

In 2014, I fainted during a bad stomach flu, and broke 3 ribs. A week later, I went to the ER when I had symptoms which seemed similar to a ruptured spleen, which is very dangerous.

Obviously any test related to the spleen was justified.

However, when I came into the ER, the first thing they did was bring an EKG machine to me. I asked, "Why an EKG? Why are you doing this?"

The response was, "We always take an EKG if you have pain anywhere near your heart."

"But I fell and broke my ribs last week. I know that. The reason for the pain at my ribs is very clear to me. I don't need any tests for that. I don't want this."

They wheeled the machine away.

I then second-guessed myself and texted my brother (a cardiology professor), asking if I made a mistake refusing the EKG under these circumstances. He texted back that I was 100% correct in doing so, and that indeed this was wasteful and useless in such a situation.

After the ER visit (which fortunately revealed no spleen damage), I got a bill in the mail. One of the elements listed was a coagulation test.

I couldn't imagine why they would have administered that.

I called the hospital and asked, "Why the coag test?"

"Well, we needed to know the results in case your spleen was ruptured and you needed surgery."

"Yeah, but if I needed surgery, couldn't you have done the coag test once you found that out? Why do it in advance when you don't know if surgery is necessary?"

"Well... umm... yes," they responded. "Look, no problem, we'll take that off the bill."

Again, my brother agreed this was just something done to pad the bill.


I have refused other bullshit tests which seemed clearly wasteful or extraneous.

My brother told me that a common trick in cardiology in recent years is the "nuclear stress test" -- something massively overused simply because it's expensive. Even worse, you are exposed to a lot of radiation, so this is a bad test to do unnecessarily even if you're getting it for free!

Bottom line is that we need to cut out waste and fraud first and foremost.

This line in the article is all you need to know:

To cut down on needless care, Cedars-Sinai arranged for doctors to be alerted electronically when they ordered tests or drugs that run contrary to 18 Choosing Wisely recommendations.

The hospital analyzed alerts from 26,424 patient encounters from 2013 to 2016. All of the guidelines were followed in 6% of those cases, or 1,591 encounters.

So this study found that, in all patient encounters where tests were ordered, doctors only did it properly 6% of the time.

And this was an internal study!!

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

So what you're trying to tell us is that a lot of people are making a lot of money & are not really interested in having any system(the ACA, or "Obamacare" as it's better known as, comes to mind) or any guidelines(18 Choosing Wisely recommendations FTW) implemented that curtails that money train in any way shape or form.

Colour me absolutely fucking shocked.

and yes

 

that's a perfectly acceptable way in the English language to spell, what you Americans would spell, color

 

so fucking bite me

[ErickAA]

$200 billion worth of corruption/waste.... And that's just in the medical sector!

Imagine if the swamp truly was fully drained. Because it's crooked politicians who 'legally' in most cases push through dirty legislation which benefits big business far greater than it does the people they're supposed to be representing.

The corruption likely runs into the many trillions of dollars per year. Imagine the good YOUR money could do?

Lower taxes
Free healthcare for all US citizens
Improved infrastructure
Education
Help clean up the ghettos. Get kids coming outa school into jobs rather than gangs = less crime.
Etc. etc.

Problem is, the corruption runs so deep and goes right up the political chain. It is 100% impossible to reverse. As politically. Once your hands are dirty, they're forever dirty.

Only a revolution by ordinary Americans would change anything. And I actually think that would probably happen too if the curtain was fully drawn back.

How does "getting rid of waste" turn into ghetto kids getting jobs? In reality it is the exact opposite. The "waste" is actually what creates all the $40k-$80k/yr jobs he ghetto kids that get their shit together get employed in.

Who do you think is running all those "useless" tests that Druff is bitching about?

[Lord of the Fraud]

$200 billion worth of corruption/waste.... And that's just in the medical sector!

Imagine if the swamp truly was fully drained. Because it's crooked politicians who 'legally' in most cases push through dirty legislation which benefits big business far greater than it does the people they're supposed to be representing.

The corruption likely runs into the many trillions of dollars per year. Imagine the good YOUR money could do?

Lower taxes
Free healthcare for all US citizens
Improved infrastructure
Education
Help clean up the ghettos. Get kids coming outa school into jobs rather than gangs = less crime.
Etc. etc.

Problem is, the corruption runs so deep and goes right up the political chain. It is 100% impossible to reverse. As politically. Once your hands are dirty, they're forever dirty.

Only a revolution by ordinary Americans would change anything. And I actually think that would probably happen too if the curtain was fully drawn back.

How does "getting rid of waste" turn into ghetto kids getting jobs? In reality it is the exact opposite. The "waste" is actually what creates all the $40k-$80k/yr jobs he ghetto kids that get their shit together get employed in.

Who do you think is running all those "useless" tests that Druff is bitching about?

Even if true. That's not really my point about possible ROI ghetto investment.

Corruption and waste sees trillions of your tax dollars not benefiting what they're designed to achieve.

The ghetto issue of course can't be solved with just cash. But if some of those stolen/unpaid/wasted/offshore tax dollars went into investing in your 3rd world like communities. Then some of those communities will start bringing to the table rather than just taking.

btw i'm not just pulling up dumb ideas on the fly without much thought or evidence. Ask any Brit here. My city was the ghetto of Western Europe before investment arrived. Highest crime & drug rates than anywhere really. Including some of the worse riots the UK has ever seen

Now 20 years later it's thriving and many of those ghetto kids now have employment, while THEIR kids are better educated and walk into employment after leaving school .

[LarryLaffer]

who knew healthcare could be so complicated