Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: slots.lv (Bovada sister site) suspends account of bonus whore

  1. #1
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    4687
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    32,874
    Blog Entries
    2

    slots.lv (Bovada sister site) suspends account of bonus whore

    A 2+2 user named "juicemaster" posted the following:

    On march 10th, I opened a slots.lv account. I used one of their bitcoin welcome bonuses, I dont remember exactly which one. I believe the bonus allows up to 8 attempts. I dont remember how many attempts I made, but on the 3rd or 4th try I ran super hot and ran my account upwards of 32k. Upon satisfying the playthrough requirements I immediately attempted a maximum withdrawal of $9500. Their software prompted me that I would be receiving $2500 every 3 days until the total of $9500 was withdrawn. March 13th, I received my first $2500, and march 16th I received my second $2500. However, then 10 days passed and I still had not yet received my 3rd installment of withdrawal. Meanwhile, I continued to play almost every day, without using any bonuses or anything like that. Finally, yesterday, I receive an email saying that "I" cancelled my withdraw and I was unable to log into my account.

    So I called into customer service and was told I needed to speak with their security team. I then found myself on the line with a man named, Diego, who seemed respectable and reasonable at first. He started asking me all kinds of questions that seemed very bizarre to me. For example he asked me how much I was betting per hand. I told him I was betting between $50-$500 (max bet). He then told me it was very bizarre that I had such a wide betting spread. Are you serious!? How weird is this!? I felt like I was being accused of something, but I didnt know what. He then tells me verbatim "Isnt it also bizarre that you would bet $500 when I only have a few thousand in my account... Do you think thats good bankroll management?" Once again, I have no idea what is going on here... what do these questions and weird accusations have to do with anything? How does this Diego have any idea what my "bankroll is"? And how is this any of their business? When I demand to know why Im being asked these questions, he says because Im violating their terms of service by abusing their bonus. I asked him what he means by this and he tells me that the bonuses are for recreational players and that I have a "winning betting strategy." I didnt realize there were winning betting strategies in online black jack .... Could this get any stranger? At this point I am completely flabbergasted by what Im hearing and almost think Im being pranked by this company. He then asks me if I know anyone else with a slots.lv account. I tell him yes, my mother does, and she also had her account locked. He then tells me that I am violating a second term of service by multi accounting. I ask him how exactly I broke this term and he responds "I dont have to tell you." I know that they havent linked IP addresses because I have never logged onto my mothers account, ever, and she has never logged onto mine, ever. Let me make that clear, we have never logged into each others accounts from the same house hold. I live in downtown los angeles and my mother lives in Lake Elsinore. I demand to know what evidence he has of my multi accounting and he assures me he has evidence, but he wont tell me what it is. The only possible way they could associate my account with my mothers is by noticing that the bitcoin she used to deposit was once on my computer. I sent her bitcoin, to her own wallet, which she used to deposit. Is this against the rules? He attempts to conclude the phone call by asking me if I have any questions, so I once again inquire about this so called evidence that I am multi accounting ... he responds verbatim "Ill have the evidence by the time Im done investigating you." I thought I might have to worry about this kind of stuff from your local bookie, not from a huge reputable company like Bovada. I cant believe this is happening .. I recorded the phone call and can provide it to anyone who thinks they can help me in this matter.

    On top of it all, they have frozen my Ignition account, which I only play poker on and have been playing on for months.
    I think I believe him... for the most part.

    Cliffs:

    - He deposited repeatedly using a "bitcoin welcome bonus"

    - On the 4th deposit, he ran the balance way up, and cleared the playthrough. He attempted to withdraw the maximum $9500 in a single transaction. He likely won more than that, though.

    - After processing $5k of withdrawals, they froze his account and forced him to speak to "Diego" in security.

    - Diego accused him of using a "winning betting strategy", and also of multiaccounting using his mom's info

    - They won't give him the evidence against him of either accusation, and his account remains suspended while they still investigate

    - They also shut down his Ignition account. Why??

    - He recorded the call. Maybe we will have him on the next PFA Radio



    My feelings:

    - He was definitely bonus whoring, likely depositing the minimum to get the maximum bitcoin bonus, running the slots, and then redepositing that exact same amount repeatedly.

    - It is likely that he determined a +EV or near +EV way to do this, and was likely betting big in a strategy to clear the playthrough quickly.

    - I don't believe his mom was playing on her own. It was almost surely a second account for him to use for this purpose.

    - Despite this, I feel Bovada/Slots.lv is being petty. If they offer a bonus and allow you to redeem it repeatedly by their own rules, they can't complain when someone takes them up on it and wins.

    - I would love to know why they shut down his Ignition account, when it's supposedly a different company owning that site (even though we know it isn't)

    http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...asons-1660856/

  2. #2
    Gold
    Reputation
    427
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Zipolite
    Posts
    1,916
    There have been a number of similar threads on SBR. Apparently there was a glitch where you could segregate bonus funds from deposited funds by placing them in your poker account and then withdraw the deposited funds without the required play through. People would free roll the casino with the bonus funds and if they lost they would withdraw and then redeposit the initial stake receiving a new bonus - rinse and repeat until they ran it up huge only to have the accounts locked and funds confiscated. Some folks got withdrawals before Bovada/Ignition caught wind of the scam. The real issue is that Bovada/Ignotion let the glitch continue to exist while idiots continued to deposit and try and scam them only then be re-rolled when their deposits were confiscated.

     
    Comments
      
      Dan Druff: interesting

  3. #3
    Silver GringoStar's Avatar
    Reputation
    46
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    CHICAGO
    Posts
    511
    Ignition tried to do the same thing to me, only on a much smaller scale and I got away. I did it a lot on Bovada, but with the switch to Ignition (according to one of their security managers) they now have people dedicated to watching people who run-up bonus funds.



    I would deposit a few hundred with a matching bonus and then register for high-price tournaments in the future, so that my playable balance is protected and the bonus money is playable without altering the real funds.

    I did this a few times and eventually I started making more because I changed tiers and they begin giving a percentage of the deposit back in bonus funds, which I was able to turn over.

    After turning a 120 deposit into 800 in about an hour playing blackjack and slots, I withdrew the money and they were able to give it to me in bitcoin in about an hour (this happens sometimes with Ignition) and I deposited 500 right back in bitcoin with the bitcoin matching bonus. I played with the $500 bonus and protected the $500 cash, I ran the bonus funds down but got an extra $245 bucks in the process with some smaller rollovers.

    I requested a withdrawal of $600 and about an hour later I received an email giving me a particular extension to request when calling them back. I ended up speaking with "Michael" who identified himself as a manager in security and he said one of his analysts just brought my activity to his attention.

    I just told him that I was unaware of any policy about protecting bonus funds. He basically just said that he doesn't believe I did it on purpose or maliciously, after I pointed out I was playing wildly with hundreds of real money on blackjack just two days earlier. He said he was going to freeze the funds from being withdrawn but that my story added up, not realizing that the hundreds of real funds I had been playing with 2 days before was a bonus run-up from a $60 deposit.

    Anyway, Ignition told me that if I register for any tournament over $100, they will seize my funds if I unregister. I don't really mind though and, honestly, I have gotten around it a few times by registering for multiple cheaper SnG's for things like MTT tickets that will never fill-up - that way they are cheaper than $100 and don't trip the wire, but also seem more reasonable for me to pull out of after waiting around for 2 hours and still being the only person registered.
    Last edited by GringoStar; 03-30-2017 at 07:41 AM.

  4. #4
    Gold
    Reputation
    427
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Zipolite
    Posts
    1,916
    Quote Originally Posted by GringoStar View Post
    Ignition tried to do the same thing to me. I did it a lot on Bovada, but with the switch to Ignition (according to one of their security managers) they now people dedicated to watching people who run-up bonus funds.



    I would deposit a few hundred with a matching bonus and then register for high-price tournaments in the future, so that my playable balance is protected and the bonus money is playable without altering the real funds.

    I did this a few times and eventually I started making more because I changed tiers and they begin giving a percentage of the deposit back in bonus funds, which I was able to turn over.

    After turning a 120 deposit into 800 in about an hour playing blackjack and slots, I withdrew the money and they were able to give it to me in bitcoin in about an hour (this happens sometimes with Ignition) and I deposited 500 right back in bitcoin with the bitcoin matching bonus. I played with the $500 bonus and protected the $500 cash, I ran the bonus funds down but got an extra $245 bucks in the process with some smaller rollovers.

    I requested a withdrawal of $600 and about an hour later I received an email giving me a particular extension to request when calling them back. I ended up speaking with "Michael" who identified himself as a manager in security and he said one of his analysts just brought my activity to his attention.

    I just told him that I was unaware any policy about protecting bonus funds. He basically just said that he doesn't believe I did it on purpose or maliciously, after I pointed out I was playing wildly with hundreds of real money on blackjack just two days earlier. He said he was going to freeze the funds from being withdrawn but that my story added up, not realizing that the hundreds of real funds I had been playing with 2 days before was a bonus run-up from a $60 deposit.

    Anyway, Ignition told me that if I register for any tournament over $100, they will seize my funds if I unregister. I don't really mind though and, honestly, I have gotten around it a few times by registering for multiple cheaper SnG's for things like tickets that will never fill-up - that way they are cheaper than $100 and don't trip the wire, but also seem more reasonable for me to pull out of after waiting around for 2 hours and still being the only person registered.

  5. #5
    Gringo

    So net net you ripped Bovada/Ignition/slots.lv? You ended up positive?

    Golf clap.

    Then they elected not to have you as a customer going forward. Do you begrudge them? I mean the game is the game, right?

    I have had customers that are just too much trouble. Their net impact on employees and other members and by extension my bottom line makes wacking them out the right move.

    It's a business relationship. Commerce ain't a one way street. Business is business.

  6. #6
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    4687
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    32,874
    Blog Entries
    2
    Gringo, I think that you're courting disaster here. You're basically running the same angle in a different way. If they catch you doing this a second time, they are just going to take your funds.

    Nobody is going to believe your story, either, even if you frame it a different way and don't admit that you were finding ways to fuck around with their bonus promotions.

    Anyway, I've also heard that Bovada is clamping down on suspected sports multiaccounters. Basically, anyone winning sportsbettor who is restricted and then seems to be playing on an "associated" account will get the account frozen, and the account holder (the new one) will be put through all kinds of interrogation. From what I've heard, the worst they do to sports multiaccounters is take their winnings and let them cash out their initial deposit, but obviously that's a big freeroll for Bovada, because they don't get the money back that they lost if the account isn't ahead.

    The bottom line is that I think angle-shooting Bovada/Ignition promotions is a big mistake at this point, and there's a good chance you won't get away with it.

    Remember that you have very little recourse if they take your money, and that the social media/forum community is not likely to be sympathetic if it appears you were just bonus whoring or angle shooting.

  7. #7
    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
    Reputation
    1382
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10,043
    Blog Entries
    20
    Bovada/slots.lv (and many sites) are extremely vague with these reload bonuses and abusing them. Their are no specifics given but the reality is if you lose then by all means they are fine if you keep on firing the bonus promo code but if you finally win big (it can happen even in online slots, computer blackjack, etc.) they will look into it and find a way to get out of paying people.

    So it's essentially a freeroll scheme for the site where the customer finds value in the bonuses that they keep coming back. It's pure greed that a site pulls this scheme when they are making a bunch of money off the high percentage of people that never get lucky or when they do they give a lot of it back over time.

  8. #8
    Silver GringoStar's Avatar
    Reputation
    46
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    CHICAGO
    Posts
    511
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Gringo, I think that you're courting disaster here. You're basically running the same angle in a different way. If they catch you doing this a second time, they are just going to take your funds.

    Nobody is going to believe your story, either, even if you frame it a different way and don't admit that you were finding ways to fuck around with their bonus promotions.

    Anyway, I've also heard that Bovada is clamping down on suspected sports multiaccounters. Basically, anyone winning sportsbettor who is restricted and then seems to be playing on an "associated" account will get the account frozen, and the account holder (the new one) will be put through all kinds of interrogation. From what I've heard, the worst they do to sports multiaccounters is take their winnings and let them cash out their initial deposit, but obviously that's a big freeroll for Bovada, because they don't get the money back that they lost if the account isn't ahead.

    The bottom line is that I think angle-shooting Bovada/Ignition promotions is a big mistake at this point, and there's a good chance you won't get away with it.

    Remember that you have very little recourse if they take your money, and that the social media/forum community is not likely to be sympathetic if it appears you were just bonus whoring or angle shooting.
    @Sanlmar - They didn't boot me, they just had a convo with me before allowing the $600 withdrawal.


    @Druff - I definitely agree that I am on thin ice with them, but I am not really a big drain either compared to people colluding in high stake cash games and SnG's etc. I don't even multiaccount and I realize I'm playing the same angle, but sometimes I'll even register for scheduled tournaments that are 15-45 minutes in the future but are just short of the number of people necessary to get the tournament started, so I will sneak in some large blackjack bets before the real funds from the tournament start to override the bonus funds, in terms of casino bets.

    I also have not been doing it recently, as I won a ticket to the main event on April 9th and don't want to give them any excuses to not pay me - on the off chance I go deep in the tourney.

    Also, the conversation with the Ignition security actually ended with me gathering a fair amount of info about how they determine/classify "abuse" of their bonus structure. This guy "Michael" allowed me to pester him with questions, as I explained to him that part of the reason why I was protecting my real funds was because there was a pending withdrawal and I wanted to continue to play without risking cancellation of the withdrawal. To be honest, this was only partially social-engineering at the time, as I really was confused and curious about the exact reasoning and determination for not locking funds associated with withdrawals, aside from providing an opportunity for me to lose all of my money.

    Anyway, after telling me that if I ever unregister from a tourney above $100 it will automatically alert them, I asked a bunch of questions. I asked what would happen if I was registered and had an emergency and would be unable to play that I could call them. He explained that if I talked to him directly, he would be willing to work with certain circumstances, as long as there isn't a clear case of abuse. I literally asked about 10 other possible scenarios and he kind of got tired of me bothering him and said something along the lines of "Listen, if you keep it under $100 and don't register for over 2-3 tournaments at a time, it shouldn't really be an issue." Now I am not really doing this anymore, as I'm migrating back to the 9-5 world, but it seems like (if you get the right person) the matter of protecting funds is a very subjective area that isn't strictly defined and can be massaged in your favor.

    That being said, I got lucky and I completely get your warning that the opposite can be true and some other dickhead security person could easily cancel my entire account for much less.

    I am not recommending anyone try to abuse bonus funds, but if you do... Don't register in high value tournaments (they more closely follow high-rollers), but also try to register for as few as possible - there's a bit of basic math involved. Also, after rolling your bonus over, do not withdrawal immediately. Use discipline and maybe even sit in a cash game and lose $50 bucks then don't play for 24 hours, then play some more real world money before requesting a withdrawal. It's a dangerous game and certainly not worth it if you are depositing thousands, but it is a easy-ish way to make thousands by only risking a few hundred.

     
    Comments
      
      Sanlmar: 9-5 Condolence rep. Sorry for your loss.
      
      LarryLaffer: he's had more 9-5's than I can count. poker is his thing, he jus doesn't know it
    Last edited by GringoStar; 03-30-2017 at 03:41 PM.

  9. #9
    Platinum thesparten's Avatar
    Reputation
    -15
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    3,590
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    A 2+2 user named "juicemaster" posted the following:

    On march 10th, I opened a slots.lv account. I used one of their bitcoin welcome bonuses, I dont remember exactly which one. I believe the bonus allows up to 8 attempts. I dont remember how many attempts I made, but on the 3rd or 4th try I ran super hot and ran my account upwards of 32k. Upon satisfying the playthrough requirements I immediately attempted a maximum withdrawal of $9500. Their software prompted me that I would be receiving $2500 every 3 days until the total of $9500 was withdrawn. March 13th, I received my first $2500, and march 16th I received my second $2500. However, then 10 days passed and I still had not yet received my 3rd installment of withdrawal. Meanwhile, I continued to play almost every day, without using any bonuses or anything like that. Finally, yesterday, I receive an email saying that "I" cancelled my withdraw and I was unable to log into my account.

    So I called into customer service and was told I needed to speak with their security team. I then found myself on the line with a man named, Diego, who seemed respectable and reasonable at first. He started asking me all kinds of questions that seemed very bizarre to me. For example he asked me how much I was betting per hand. I told him I was betting between $50-$500 (max bet). He then told me it was very bizarre that I had such a wide betting spread. Are you serious!? How weird is this!? I felt like I was being accused of something, but I didnt know what. He then tells me verbatim "Isnt it also bizarre that you would bet $500 when I only have a few thousand in my account... Do you think thats good bankroll management?" Once again, I have no idea what is going on here... what do these questions and weird accusations have to do with anything? How does this Diego have any idea what my "bankroll is"? And how is this any of their business? When I demand to know why Im being asked these questions, he says because Im violating their terms of service by abusing their bonus. I asked him what he means by this and he tells me that the bonuses are for recreational players and that I have a "winning betting strategy." I didnt realize there were winning betting strategies in online black jack .... Could this get any stranger? At this point I am completely flabbergasted by what Im hearing and almost think Im being pranked by this company. He then asks me if I know anyone else with a slots.lv account. I tell him yes, my mother does, and she also had her account locked. He then tells me that I am violating a second term of service by multi accounting. I ask him how exactly I broke this term and he responds "I dont have to tell you." I know that they havent linked IP addresses because I have never logged onto my mothers account, ever, and she has never logged onto mine, ever. Let me make that clear, we have never logged into each others accounts from the same house hold. I live in downtown los angeles and my mother lives in Lake Elsinore. I demand to know what evidence he has of my multi accounting and he assures me he has evidence, but he wont tell me what it is. The only possible way they could associate my account with my mothers is by noticing that the bitcoin she used to deposit was once on my computer. I sent her bitcoin, to her own wallet, which she used to deposit. Is this against the rules? He attempts to conclude the phone call by asking me if I have any questions, so I once again inquire about this so called evidence that I am multi accounting ... he responds verbatim "Ill have the evidence by the time Im done investigating you." I thought I might have to worry about this kind of stuff from your local bookie, not from a huge reputable company like Bovada. I cant believe this is happening .. I recorded the phone call and can provide it to anyone who thinks they can help me in this matter.

    On top of it all, they have frozen my Ignition account, which I only play poker on and have been playing on for months.
    I think I believe him... for the most part.

    Cliffs:

    - He deposited repeatedly using a "bitcoin welcome bonus"

    - On the 4th deposit, he ran the balance way up, and cleared the playthrough. He attempted to withdraw the maximum $9500 in a single transaction. He likely won more than that, though.

    - After processing $5k of withdrawals, they froze his account and forced him to speak to "Diego" in security.

    - Diego accused him of using a "winning betting strategy", and also of multiaccounting using his mom's info

    - They won't give him the evidence against him of either accusation, and his account remains suspended while they still investigate

    - They also shut down his Ignition account. Why??

    - He recorded the call. Maybe we will have him on the next PFA Radio



    My feelings:

    - He was definitely bonus whoring, likely depositing the minimum to get the maximum bitcoin bonus, running the slots, and then redepositing that exact same amount repeatedly.

    - It is likely that he determined a +EV or near +EV way to do this, and was likely betting big in a strategy to clear the playthrough quickly.

    - I don't believe his mom was playing on her own. It was almost surely a second account for him to use for this purpose.

    - Despite this, I feel Bovada/Slots.lv is being petty. If they offer a bonus and allow you to redeem it repeatedly by their own rules, they can't complain when someone takes them up on it and wins.

    - I would love to know why they shut down his Ignition account, when it's supposedly a different company owning that site (even though we know it isn't)

    http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...asons-1660856/
    He deserved it.

  10. #10
    Thread is entertaining. Reminds me of the good old days.

  11. #11
    And this is why gambling online with foreign corporations is a bad idea.

  12. #12
    Diamond chinamaniac's Avatar
    Reputation
    991
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    On a Plane
    Posts
    7,716
    Blog Entries
    2
    I know someone that had their account frozen by a Bovada rep and then was told over the phone that if you find betting information online or get picks off of forums or any kind of betting service that violates their TOS because they don't allow this because they are a rec betting site.





    However in this case after review they released the funds.

  13. #13
    Gold
    Reputation
    427
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Zipolite
    Posts
    1,916
    Hey Gringo got any other good scams?

  14. #14
    Silver GringoStar's Avatar
    Reputation
    46
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    CHICAGO
    Posts
    511
    Quote Originally Posted by gauchojake View Post
    Hey Gringo got any other good scams?
    HA. HA.

  15. #15
    King of Lost Wages LarryLaffer's Avatar
    Reputation
    175
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Lost Wages
    Posts
    4,874
    Quote Originally Posted by gauchojake View Post
    Hey Gringo got any other good scams?

    I don't see these as scams any more than i see Druff not paying back the $120 to the credit card company after the airline decided to finally reimburse him (12 weeks!)
    "Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next."

    George Steinbrenner

  16. #16
    Todd, this is another thread Mason Malmuth is complaining about

    http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...issue-1669455/

    did he notify you before posting?


    if not, it seems as if he is not dealing in good faith and his intent is to defame PFA rather than protect his content
    (long before there was a PFA i had my Grenade & Crossbones avatar at DD)

  17. #17
    I noticed tonight he is lining you up just like I said days ago.

    You will have essentially let a dime get in the way of saving you dollars if you don't lawyer up.

  18. #18
    Gold
    Reputation
    427
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Zipolite
    Posts
    1,916
    The OP of the thread on 2+2 posted the same complaint on multiple websites. When I originally saw it I thought it looked familiar and I do not read 2+2. The exact post exists on a site called Ask Gamblers.com and I am pretty sure that SBR deleted a thread with the same content.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-14-2017, 03:05 AM
  2. Replies: 30
    Last Post: 11-11-2016, 03:57 PM
  3. Friend just rolled Bovada on the slots for about $200
    By LarryLaffer in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 08-04-2016, 05:42 AM
  4. Check your Bovada bonuses, you probably have a March Madness deposit bonus
    By Dan Druff in forum Poker Community Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-19-2016, 11:22 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •