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Thread: Oakland "crash pad" warehouse for artists burns down, at least 36 dead

  1. #41
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    oh god i remember that one too... fucking shivers...


    but The Normal Heart had a scene where they specifically discuss why gay men rebelled against the notion of suppressing their sexual revolution, and framed it flawlessly against the right wing crusade against them. it was an argument i had never seen framed so well before.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  2. #42
    Silver Draymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    oh god i remember that one too... fucking shivers...


    but The Normal Heart had a scene where they specifically discuss why gay men rebelled against the notion of suppressing their sexual revolution, and framed it flawlessly against the right wing crusade against them. it was an argument i had never seen framed so well before.
    This scene really was the epicenter of the AIDS ground zero crisis, truth behold. Right here in this brilliant movie, if the movie even still exists, I assume it does on Amazon or somewhere. I dunno, been a long time since I have seen it, over 15 years.


  3. #43
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    investigations already starting into Vulcan and Jingletown (two other creative coops in the bay)
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  4. #44
    Plutonium simpdog's Avatar
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    One fire ruining it for everyone around the globe.

    Guarantee "after-hour clubs" for "musicians" and "artists" going to be feeling some heat in the next few months.

     
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      lewfather: lmao tagged this one to death

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I totally get the argument that Bay Area rents are outrageous, and are therefore shutting out broke artists and other poor people who want to live there.

    However, this tragedy is pretty much exactly why the "looking the other way regarding unauthorized living spaces" solution is so flawed.

    Derick Almena was already an exploitative piece of shit long before the events of December 2.

    And therein lies the problem. The cheap, unauthorized housing options are typically provided by shady characters who are only doing a further disservice to the already impoverished people staying there.

    These crash pads often aren't there as an act of charity. They're run by narcissistic wannabe kings-of-their-domain who feel the law does not apply to them.

    Basically by looking the other way, it's giving cretins like Almena the license to victimize and endanger poor people, with no oversight.

    It is not surprising at all to see the true character of the guy who ran one of these things.

  6. #46
    Cubic Zirconia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiganer View Post
    These kind of things show why libertarianism is fucking dumb.
    I'll bet all those squatters and artsy hipsters who hang around there were Bernie or Hilary supporters.

  7. #47
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SueShi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiganer View Post
    These kind of things show why libertarianism is fucking dumb.
    I'll bet all those squatters and artsy hipsters who hang around there were Bernie or Hilary supporters.

    you know libertarians are virtually the opposite of anything bernie or even hillary stood for right?
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  8. #48
    Cubic Zirconia
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SueShi View Post

    I'll bet all those squatters and artsy hipsters who hang around there were Bernie or Hilary supporters.

    you know libertarians are virtually the opposite of anything bernie or even hillary stood for right?

    Exactly. That's why libertarianism isn't dumb, in theory at least. The Oakland fire is an example of why the socialist/liberal/hippie culture is a fail. If you want to live in the Bay Area where rent is astronomically high, get some useful education and experience so you can afford it, otherwise move to Idaho. Instead, they cry about greedy landlords while CHOOSING to squat like cockroaches in a crusty warehouse trying to "make it" as artists because they all think they're special snowflakes. Libertarianism would advocate personal responsibility which includes making wise choices about your own safety and future instead of depending on society (or this scumbag Derek Ion) to do it for you.

  9. #49
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SueShi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post


    you know libertarians are virtually the opposite of anything bernie or even hillary stood for right?

    Exactly. That's why libertarianism isn't dumb, in theory at least. The Oakland fire is an example of why the socialist/liberal/hippie culture is a fail. If you want to live in the Bay Area where rent is astronomically high, get some useful education and experience so you can afford it, otherwise move to Idaho. Instead, they cry about greedy landlords while CHOOSING to squat like cockroaches in a crusty warehouse trying to "make it" as artists because they all think they're special snowflakes. Libertarianism would advocate personal responsibility which includes making wise choices about your own safety and future instead of depending on society (or this scumbag Derek Ion) to do it for you.

    So in addition to knowing nothing about the culture of the Bay Area, you also dont know what libertarianism is.

    One of your better dupes, druff. She's going to fit in fine here.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  10. #50
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...231-story.html

    All I can say is, this is not the first War on Raves I've survived and god willing it wont be the last.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  11. #51
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SueShi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post


    you know libertarians are virtually the opposite of anything bernie or even hillary stood for right?

    Exactly. That's why libertarianism isn't dumb, in theory at least. The Oakland fire is an example of why the socialist/liberal/hippie culture is a fail. If you want to live in the Bay Area where rent is astronomically high, get some useful education and experience so you can afford it, otherwise move to Idaho. Instead, they cry about greedy landlords while CHOOSING to squat like cockroaches in a crusty warehouse trying to "make it" as artists because they all think they're special snowflakes. Libertarianism would advocate personal responsibility which includes making wise choices about your own safety and future instead of depending on society (or this scumbag Derek Ion) to do it for you.

    How thick are you.com
    "Get some useful education" as is computer programming????????????????????????????????
    Useful to whom?
    Dumb bitch of the year, luckily just minutes left

    Sueshit a piece of crap

  12. #52
    Cubic Zirconia
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    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SueShi
    Exactly. That's why libertarianism isn't dumb, in theory at least. The Oakland fire is an example of why the socialist/liberal/hippie culture is a fail. If you want to live in the Bay Area where rent is astronomically high, get some useful education and experience so you can afford it, otherwise move to Idaho. Instead, they cry about greedy landlords while CHOOSING to squat like cockroaches in a crusty warehouse trying to "make it" as artists because they all think they're special snowflakes. Libertarianism would advocate personal responsibility which includes making wise choices about your own safety and future instead of depending on society (or this scumbag Derek Ion) to do it for you.

    How thick are you.com
    "Get some useful education" as is computer programming????????????????????????????????
    Useful to whom?
    Dumb bitch of the year, luckily just minutes left
    Lemme take a guess, you're one of those dumb shit liberals who thinks we should pay for your welfare because you didn't make it as an artist or poker player.
    GTFO of your parent's basement already.

  13. #53
    Gold Wiganer's Avatar
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    Name:  redneck.png
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyde View Post
    I stay to myself and keep out of trouble and/or potentially problematic scenarios

  14. #54
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SueShi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post


    How thick are you.com
    "Get some useful education" as is computer programming????????????????????????????????
    Useful to whom?
    Dumb bitch of the year, luckily just minutes left
    Lemme take a guess, you're one of those dumb shit liberals who thinks we should pay for your welfare because you didn't make it as an artist or poker player.
    GTFO of your parent's basement already.
    Sonny, I'm going to ask you to get your facts straight because I'm in a van, down by the RIVER!!!!!

    Last edited by limitles; 01-02-2017 at 01:52 PM.

  15. #55
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Derick Almena criminally charged with 36 counts of manslaughter.

    https://patch.com/california/alameda...st-ship-deaths

    Also, this fine gentleman, the "creative director" of the building, was also charged with those same 36 counts:

    https://patch.com/california/alameda...alameda-county



    His name is Max Harris.

     
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      LarryLaffer: they'll each get a dime or 2 and be out in half

  16. #56
    King of Lost Wages LarryLaffer's Avatar
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    bump

    wife of one of the "landlords" breaks silence.


    http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/...pid=fb-desktop



    she says that because her and her 2 kids lived there, on the second floor, it was obviously safe enough for others.

    lawyer contends that others are at fault, including the gas company, the city of oakland, a neighbor who installed a transformer without a permit, and GET THIS: even the FIRE DEPARTMENT.

    that's right. the defense is saying that the fire department acted negligently because they didn't use a ladder to get people out of the second story, but instead punched holes in the roof creating more smoke.




    Last edited by LarryLaffer; 06-11-2017 at 12:47 PM.
    "Winning is the most important thing in my life, after breathing. Breathing first, winning next."

    George Steinbrenner

  17. #57
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryLaffer View Post
    bump

    wife of one of the "landlords" breaks silence.


    http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/...pid=fb-desktop



    she says that because her and her 2 kids lived there, on the second floor, it was obviously safe enough for others.

    lawyer contends that others are at fault, including the gas company, the city of oakland, a neighbor who installed a transformer without a permit, and GET THIS: even the FIRE DEPARTMENT.

    that's right. the defense is saying that the fire department acted negligently because they didn't use a ladder to get people out of the second story, but instead punched holes in the roof creating more smoke.





    Yeah, she's just being a mouthpiece for the defense attorneys, who prepared this statement for her. She's making the statement because she's not charged, as opposed to Derek Almena.

    I read some interviews with her family, including her father, that basically they repeatedly warned her that Derek was a loser and seemed dangerous, and she just dismissed them. The family was frustrated with her before all of this happened.

    Also, she was a horrible mother, constantly putting the kids in danger (or in really bad situations, such as leaving them sitting in the background during sex parties). She and Derek would also take off for months and leave the kids with whomever would take them.

  18. #58
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Here we go...

    Preliminary hearings started...

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/12/...-begins-today/

  19. #59
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Wow, went to update this and was surprised I didn't post a previous update in July.

    In July 2018, it appeared the whole thing was over.

    Prosecutors agreed to sweetheart plea deals with both Almena and Harris. Almena got 9 years, Harris got 6. They also had a few years of supervised release after that.

    https://abc7news.com/oakland-ghost-s...trial/3698559/

    Many families were unhappy with this, especially in Almena's case, given the mass loss of life and the fact that Almena was fully made aware many times that the Ghost Ship complex was hazardous.

    In fact, Almena was especially vile for various reasons. When he was informed of the Ghost Ship burning down and the 36 dead, his first reaction was to whine about how he had just lost "everything I worked for", rather than comment on the tragedy of the deaths.

    Second, it turned out the guy had all kinds of history of being aggressive and sometimes violent when people would complain about the conditions of the Ghost Ship. In some cases, he threatened to beat people up or kill them for complaining about anything. He was warned countless times that the place was a "death trap", but he ignored it and didn't give a shit.

    He absolutely refused to do anything about the safety of the place, and it was a tremendous fire hazard to where even the average person would have been shocked had they seen the way it was.

    Anyway, surprisingly a judge decided that Almena "didn't show remorse" enough to qualify for a plea deal, and killed the whole thing in August!

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...p-13147662.php

    Apparently several families begged the judge to kill the plea deal during their victim impact statements in court, and the judge was moved enough to actually do it!

    So now Almena and Harris are going back to trial.

    Personally, I'm happy to see this. Almena deserves life in prison for what he did.

    I don't know much about this Harris guy, but it seems that his culpability is much less than that of Almena. I could understand his sentence being less, but Almena is a piece of shit and really needs the book thrown at him.

  20. #60
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    LOL at this interview with the cold, selfish wife who doesn't give a shit about the people who died: http://www.ktvu.com/news/294124361-video

    Apparently they've been feeding Derick Almena well in prison:



    Go to about the 2 minute mark, and this piece of shit says, "I didn't commit an act, I didn't shoot someone", referring to how he's being unfairly prosecuted because he didn't actively harm anyone.

    Never mind that he ignored safety warnings for years from tenants, and in fact physically attacked anyone who questioned him about it.


    Gag order issued in January: https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...ip-fire-trial/

     
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      MumblesBadly: Classic psychopathic complete lack of empathy

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