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Thread: Oakland "crash pad" warehouse for artists burns down, at least 36 dead

  1. #21
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SantaCruz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryLaffer View Post
    explain a bit more?

    because that had nothing to do with libertarianism.

    read the story, it has to do with government beauracracy (sp?) and how slow things move. The last complaint about the place being a fire hazard was on 11/17 not even a month ago.

    If the fire marshall can show up at a bar and fine an owner for having too many people just on a whim (they do that all the time to generate revenue) then why couldn't they go and take a look at this place?

    it's a tragedy that could've been avoided.

    In California there is a very large group of property rights fanatics and a large number of lawyers who back them up. "That's where the money is", as one lawyer explained to me.

    I know that in the county that I live in, which isn't all that far from Oakland, county officials aren't allowed to investigate illegal living structures on their own volition. They can only investigate if they get a formal complaint from a third party, usually a neighbor.

    That's because the property rights people will sue the officials on the basis that they are being persecuted for their strong Constitutional beliefs. They will also sue the officials as individuals for singling them out. So in order to investigate anyone without a third party complaint, the officials would need to investigate all dwellings which would be financially prohibitive.

    Years ago I was deeply involved in all of that stuff. A lot of the property rights people are uneducated Constitutional fanatics. They can be very difficult to deal with and purposely drive up the costs to force government agencies to back-off on enforcing regulations.
    I hear what you're saying. It is California so fucked up laws and practices aren't doubted by me.

    Most big cities have an Inspectional Services Dept. It is usually a division of the Fire Dept. Oakland has similar. They don't just issue the certificate of occupancy on new construction or change of ownership. They are charged with periodic inspection.

    Oakland Fire Department Inspection Services
    The primary purposes of the Oakland Fire Department (OFD) as related to prevention and risk mitigation are to reduce the risks of fire and other types of emergencies in the community. The Oakland Municipal Code, the California Fire Code, the California Health and Safety Code, and the California Building Code Standards establish minimum regulatory fire and life safety requirements for the installation and maintenance of buildings, equipment, and activities throughout the City of Oakland.

    The Fire Prevention Bureau (FPB), a branch of the Oakland Fire Department, oversees all inspection services related to compliance with the aforementioned municipal, state, and federal fire codes and standards. The four types of inspection services include: Fire Code, Commercial, Vegetation Management, and Hazardous Materials. The FPB Inspectors and OFD Operations personnel conduct field inspections to determine compliance with all applicable codes and standards by developing and maintaining long standing relationships with business owners, community agencies, and residents in an effort to reduce risks of fire and other emergencies, while increasing fire prevention and safety awareness throughout Oakland communities.
    Fire Code Inspections
    This unit is comprised of inspectors with specialized knowledge in the CA Fire Code and supports the development and building permit process, as well as determining compliance for existing buildings and occupancies throughout Oakland. Through field inspections, this group determines compliance with applicable codes and standards, and works closely with owners and/or occupants to monitor on-going maintenance and compliance. Inspection types include new construction, care facilities, institutions, jails, high-rise business and residential buildings, places of worship, mid-rise residential buildings, special vents/activities, and inspections in response to citizen complaints. Fire Code inspections are generally scheduled by contractors performing work on buildings, owners and/or tenants seeking to modify building or tenant spaces, citizens concerned with fire safety, and FPB inspectors conducting annual obligatory inspections.

    Commercial Inspections
    The Commercial Inspection Program mandates that annual inspections of all commercial facilities and multi-family residences (apartments, hotels, motels, etc.) be conducted as designated by the State of California Health and Safety Code, and City of Oakland ordinance. These annual field inspections, that are managed and directed by the Fire Prevention Bureau, are conducted by the members of the OFD Operations Division annually, on a block-by-block basis, with the intent to inspect all commercial & residential properties as it pertains to the code and ordinance; provide fire and other life safety hazards education to business owners/occupants; and conduct pre-fire planning for future emergency response. The only properties exempt from said inspections are single-family dwellings and duplex buildings.

    Commercial inspections are conducted as time permits during a fire station’s 24-hour shift and are not routinely scheduled on an appointment basis. As a general rule, if an inspection was conducted last year, business owners/occupants should receive an inspection within 30 days before or after the previous years’ inspection. Additionally, if there are no guarantees that an inspection will be completed due to fire department emergency response needs.

    This is an excellent program that provides fire safety personnel an opportunity to meet business owners/occupants of the community which they serve. It is our goal to provide you excellent service by identifying those activities, processes, or construction flaws which can lead to unwanted fires, and other types of accidents or emergencies.
    Not a big fan of the justice system in these situations. Prosecutors just don't go after those they rely on for day to day prosecution - i.e. Cops, FD or any civil servant for that matter.

    They'll hang the owner and the hack political appointee that runs that Dept will collect his pension

  2. #22
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    A lot of places around here don't even have a Certificate of Occupancy. There is an incredible demand for housing; so just about everything with four walls gets rented out. A Planning Department director once told me that there were actually people, mostly students, renting out chicken coups to live in.

  3. #23
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    This Derick Ion guy is a real piece of shit:

    http://nypost.com/2016/12/05/owner-o...d-drug-addict/

    ... but apparently he's not the owner of the property, just the manager.

  4. #24
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      Gordman: holy shit lol
      
      SantaCruz: Sadly, if he were to run for president, he'd probably win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Wow, this guy is a piece of shit.
    He says he didn't know there was loss of life when he wrote that.; i don't buy that for a second. How the hell do you not know people were dead in this case...given the media coverage it's pretty much impossible.



    When i was flipping through channels,i heard something about murder charges could be filed...i don't know how much truth there is to that, but im wondering on who...him? Property owners?

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    Ok, i now took 5 minutes and actually learned about this guy Derick

    Hes not just negligent. ..hes full blown 120% batshit crazy and needed to be exterminated from this planet years ago.

    I will be shocked and livid if this loser doesnt spend a lengthy sentence behind bars.

  8. #28
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    As my Grandfather, who grew up in Oakland used to say "Oakland needs an enema." It's shame the fire couldn't spread and burn down a few more blocks to the ground for a fresh start in such a central location.

    I lived on a OK block and I say OK because of the 6 houses on the block, there were only 2 grow houses and 1 whorehouse. 50% good neighbors makes it livable for Oakland, even if the good half was made up of Chinese people who liter in their own front yard.

    It is shame that 30+ people had to die in order for the ineffectiveness and incompetence of the city to show, once again. The dust hasn't even settled from the last fiasco with the crooked cops / underage prostitutes, and here we go once again.

    My friend just moved back to the Bay from LA with his wife and kid, and bought a house in Oakland. Quietly placing bets for how long they last until they figure out what a shit hole it is, and/or get sick of paying taxes to a city who doles it out to "victims" over and over again, due to pure incompetence. No amount of gentrifiers moving to Oakland from SF could reverse the decades of human trash that have built up. Pray for an earthquake.

     
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      big dick: you need an enema

  9. #29
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SantaCruz View Post
    A lot of places around here don't even have a Certificate of Occupancy. There is an incredible demand for housing; so just about everything with four walls gets rented out. A Planning Department director once told me that there were actually people, mostly students, renting out chicken coups to live in.
    So do the high rises & apartment buildings in Oakland have working sprinkler & fire alarm systems?

    Sounds like a case of city wide negligence by public officials

    My interest in this story is how the media & public are completely failing here. So standard & reaffirms my understanding of the way the world works.

    You have an outrageous character, Derick Ion, that will serve as a lightning rod. PFA loves this storyline too. Give the guy the chair and nothing is solved except providing vengeance.

    The city will skate. Promises will be made. How about performing your job?

    You would be surprised how few managers & building owners are up to date on building & fire codes. Why would they?

    But please, more Derick Ion twitter. TIA

     
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      sah_24: Government never has to account for performance . . .

  10. #30
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Derek Ion's real name is Derek Almena. I think the "Ion" part was probably something he adopted on his own in order to look cooler.

    The guy is a pure narcissist. He did an interview with the TODAY show this morning, where he bizarrely rambled and tried to make everyone feel sorry for him. Even in his moments of "grief", you can tell that he feels sorry for himself, and not the 36 victims.

    In a telling moment, Almena/Ion asked, "What did I do in my life to get me to this point?", as if we need to feel sympathy for him and his suffering.

    He also apparently can't resist the temptation to speak out in the media, even though every word can be used to fuck him later in criminal court (and it probably will).




    I've known these types over the years. There are a few in poker. There are a few in every community.

    Derek Almena deserves all the media scrutiny he's getting. He's not just an outrageous character. He is someone who formed a dangerous living community, laughed off years of concern from tenants/visitors because he felt he knew better than everyone else (including the fire department), and exploited wayward artists/drifters in order to abuse drugs, travel to Bali, and hold crazy sex parties. (You can read about all of this stuff in the other links I posted.)

    I also think the narcissist side of him loved being the "leader" of this place, almost like he was a cult figure and the savior of the artistic community of Oakland. Or so he believed.

    In one disgusting claim, someone said that he would hold orgies at the place right in front of his 3 small children, and that his youngest (then 4) was actually found chewing on a used condom. He also was said to leave with his wife for several months, with the kids staying behind with whomever he could talk into taking them. And then he lost the kids for some time, only to somehow get them back, in yet another perplexing decision by Oakland's child protective services.

    This guy pretty much has no redeeming qualities, which is why the media has become so fascinated with him. He's the perfect villain, and unlike other media villains who enjoy being the bad guy (think Rod Blagojevich and Martin Shrkeli), Ion/Almena still doesn't realize why people dislike him.

    At the same time, Sanlmar is correct that the media has thus far given a free pass to the city of Oakland for their dreadful handling of complaints over the years about that building. This wasn't a matter of mild code violations such as an illegal addition or a few extra people over the allowed maximum. This was a disaster waiting to happen, and it apparently was that way for years while people complained and got no action.

    So yes, this is very much a story of government ineptitude, and hopefully it wakes people up not just in Oakland, but elsewhere as well.

    Sometimes a deadly fire can do that.

    Hotels were notoriously unsafe regarding fire danger (and guests were poorly educated regarding what to do in the event of a fire), but the 1980 MGM Grand fire in Vegas changed all of that. 85 deaths later, hotels suddenly became far safer in the US (not just Vegas) going forward. As a kid at the time, I remember the sudden transformation of many hotels to be fire safety compliant, as well as learning about the proper procedure during such fires.

     
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      unchainedghost: Stopped reading once I saw his pic. You are correct sir
      
      Tellafriend: hold my soul accountable for believing in something rep

  11. #31
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    At this point in time the 36 died in vain.

    Boston has a notoriously tough Fire Dept Inspectional Services Dept. Those are the ghosts of Coconut Grove talking.

    If you think one hotel chain is any safer than another you are wrong. Each hotel is constructed uniquely. They are of various ages with different low bid systems (ex: Fire, sprinkler, door crash bars/electronic stairwell unlock etc).

    Neither the hotel General Manager or the Maintenance Director really have a clue how they work or wether they work at all. They are driven by local code and enforcement and the fear of being shut down or having a manned fire watch on every floor (at great expense).

    The NFPA building codes & guidelines pre & post construction responded to the MGM fire. However, it is the local Fire Department that approves the plans, does the final inspection and periodic audits.

    The Fire Department responded in 4 minutes. I thought I heard the fire house was blocks away. They were oblivious to what was happening in their district? Or just didn't give a shit. Likely, the latter. Generally speaking, fire fighters are lazy shits who find themselves working a good gig. Three days on in the firehouse and four days off for a side job and they are banking pretty good with great pension and benefits. This suits trades people very well.

     
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      sonatine: what the fuck are you even talking about here. hotel codes? fire fighters are lazy? boston..?
      
      sah_24: Gone full retard . . .
      
      Muck Ficon: Probably your worst post ever....

  12. #32
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    so ive heard a lot more stories in recent years about people absolutely shitting on housing laws in the bay area and doing patently illegal stuff that could easily get them thrown in jail, and i think the reason its not getting the hammer like it did in the 90s is because community activists are (rightfully) pushing back against the entire bay area housing market being bugfuck insane at this point.

    its hard to describe how powerful a lobby that is in the bay area to people who have never lived there, but its roots are in 60's berkley activism and its had a lot of time and practice getting organized.

    plus, there are well known 'tricks' one can use to exploit weaknesses in zoning regs that could stave off a hammer that would come down in microseconds on a property that's on the books as multi-tenant residential, which this surely was not.

    so combine those two influences and you have a perfect storm for something like this to happen.

    suffice to say, all that is over now. even if these were immigrants (legal or no), this would result in seismic changes in enforcement. but these were super affluent white kids, including the son of a deputy. door to door spot inspections are coming and an avalanche of liens will follow.

     
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      Sanlmar: Druff referenced MGM and I am drilling home local enforcement with example
      
      sah_24: Offset rep
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  13. #33
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Sanlmar: Druff referenced MGM and I am drilling home local enforcement with example

    so you were like 'wow someone posted something borderline irrelevant, maybe i can lean into it by taking a convo about a warehouse fire and tacking on a discourse about boston firefighters being lazy and regs for hotels or something.. this is your shot sanimar, live to win...'

    seems about right.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  14. #34
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    I think people are making much more of this guy than what he is. He is a drug addict, and managed a warehouse that illegally served as shanty. He is going to be charged, but the much bigger issue is why the city did not shut down this piece of shit warehouse 2 years ago when the complaints were coming in. They knew it was an issue for a couple years now.

  15. #35
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draymond View Post
    I think people are making much more of this guy than what he is. He is a drug addict, and managed a warehouse that illegally served as shanty. He is going to be charged, but the much bigger issue is why the city did not shut down this piece of shit warehouse 2 years ago when the complaints were coming in. They knew it was an issue for a couple years now.

    they probably didnt read the post i made 10 minutes ago explaining why, either.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    so ive heard a lot more stories in recent years about people absolutely shitting on housing laws in the bay area and doing patently illegal stuff that could easily get them thrown in jail, and i think the reason its not getting the hammer like it did in the 90s is because community activists are (rightfully) pushing back against the entire bay area housing market being bugfuck insane at this point.

    its hard to describe how powerful a lobby that is in the bay area to people who have never lived there, but its roots are in 60's berkley activism and its had a lot of time and practice getting organized.

    plus, there are well known 'tricks' one can use to exploit weaknesses in zoning regs that could stave off a hammer that would come down in microseconds on a property that's on the books as multi-tenant residential, which this surely was not.
    so combine those two influences and you have a perfect storm for something like this to happen.

    suffice to say, all that is over now. even if these were immigrants (legal or no), this would result in seismic changes in enforcement. but these were super affluent white kids, including the son of a deputy. door to door spot inspections are coming and an avalanche of liens will follow.
    Well, the Bay area was absolute LAST to agree to shut down the gay bath houses in the early 80s, even though docs were pleading with them to close them in wake of the AIDS crisis. It was one of the worst decisions of the liberal left ever, to delay. They kept them open for another 3 years.

    So you are correct, its like Obama has said, progress does not move in a straight line.

     
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      sah_24: Lol ya right the liberal left is nothing but bad decision . . . commiefornia a glowing example

  17. #37
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draymond View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    so ive heard a lot more stories in recent years about people absolutely shitting on housing laws in the bay area and doing patently illegal stuff that could easily get them thrown in jail, and i think the reason its not getting the hammer like it did in the 90s is because community activists are (rightfully) pushing back against the entire bay area housing market being bugfuck insane at this point.

    its hard to describe how powerful a lobby that is in the bay area to people who have never lived there, but its roots are in 60's berkley activism and its had a lot of time and practice getting organized.

    plus, there are well known 'tricks' one can use to exploit weaknesses in zoning regs that could stave off a hammer that would come down in microseconds on a property that's on the books as multi-tenant residential, which this surely was not.
    so combine those two influences and you have a perfect storm for something like this to happen.

    suffice to say, all that is over now. even if these were immigrants (legal or no), this would result in seismic changes in enforcement. but these were super affluent white kids, including the son of a deputy. door to door spot inspections are coming and an avalanche of liens will follow.
    Well, the Bay area was absolute LAST to agree to shut down the gay bath houses in the early 80s, even though docs were pleading with them to close them in wake of the AIDS crisis. It was one of the worst decisions of the liberal left ever, to delay. They kept them open for another 3 years.

    So you are correct, its like Obama has said, progress does not move in a straight line.

    God there was a great movie about the bath house situation... fuck what was it... THE NORMAL HEART. It really spelled out why there was so much resistance to such a simple suggestion.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  18. #38
    Platinum Lord of the Fraud's Avatar
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    http://pnimg.net/w/articles-attachments/1/4c2/74d75c36d2.jpg

  19. #39
    Diamond BCR's Avatar
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    Andre Royo is going to kill it playing Almena in the movie.

  20. #40
    Silver Draymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Draymond View Post

    God there was a great movie about the bath house situation... fuck what was it... THE NORMAL HEART. It really spelled out why there was so much resistance to such a simple suggestion.
    It was this movie. Guy who wrote it was dying of AIDS. It won an Academy Award in the 90s:


     
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      OSA: i remember this movie...saw it in 7th grade i think

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