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Thread: PokerFraudAlert Report: Lock Poker -- AVOID

  1. #21
    Cubic Zirconia
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    and it just gets better for Lock as this came out on Pocket5s in the last couple hrs.

    http://www.pocketfives.com/articles/...overed-587226/

    Man o Man these idiots at Lock just keep digging the hole deeper and deeper and then keep trying to use the "Nothign to see here all is right with the world" attitude

  2. #22
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    Not sure if you are also aware of the lock casino scam. As part of the rakeback they give you casino money which you need to play 40x thru to clear. As if that is not bad enough you only get to keep your profits when you are done. For instance You start with 1200. After playing thru 40x you end up with 950 left. You don't get to keep any of that money.

  3. #23
    Rest In Peace son of lockman's Avatar
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    Great detective work Druff...

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin Micunt View Post
    Not sure if you are also aware of the lock casino scam. As part of the rakeback they give you casino money which you need to play 40x thru to clear. As if that is not bad enough you only get to keep your profits when you are done. For instance You start with 1200. After playing thru 40x you end up with 950 left. You don't get to keep any of that money.
    That was covered in my report. Or were you directing this at someone else in the thread?

  5. #25
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    Great work and great article Druff. That is some serious shit. I wonder if someone have tried to contact their regulators? And if it has been done, what do they say about this?

  6. #26
    Gold Steve-O's Avatar
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    I will say that Lock has had its share of issues (but virtually every US-facing poker site currently operating is doing so on a shoestring budget and with a never-ending DOJ cloud hanging over their head) but there are a few implications you have slightly wrong from my perspective. Don't take this as a defense of Lock Poker, my only aim is to offer my insights into these three specifc complaints:

    #1 the Girah thing in the Lock Poker contest was being investigated internally well before anything was made public on 2+2: I know this because I was forced to sit on the story by my source until it was verified. I agree the eventual statement issued by Lock was PR BS, but I knew Drummond was going to be the winner witihn hours of penning an article about Girah winning. Girah sort of had Lock by the balls at this time becuase during this time period he was the golden boy of poker... but we all know how that worked out.

    *I'll pose the following theory on why Lock handled it like they did: They simply didn't have the absolute proof needed to cut the kid loose of his contract, so they decided to handle it the way they did instead of saying "we strongly suspect and believe Macedo chip-dumped". It turns out that the proof of someone playing on his account (can't remember if it turned out to be jungleman or DogisHead) was an absolute irerfutable fact.*

    #2 Lock Poker has a lot of standup poker pros on the roster as well as some I know nothing about, and considering the likes of ZeeJustin, Sorel Mizzi et al. have been sponsored in the past by other sites, Tim West is meh. I have no idea why they even signed him other than he is good friends with Matt Stout I believe.

    #3 "I'm not even going to go into the terrible relationship they've had with their affiliates, several of whom have expressed outrage and frustration with them." This is precisley the opposite of what I know of their relations. They are in good standing with BLUFF, Cardplayer, PNB. I'd like to know which affiliates have complained about Lock and whether these reports have been verified, links if possible
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

  7. #27
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O
    #1 the Girah thing in the Lock Poker contest was being investigated internally well before anything was made public on 2+2: I know this because I was forced to sit on the story by my source until it was verified. I agree the eventual statement issued by Lock was PR BS, but I knew Drummond was going to be the winner witihn hours of penning an article about Girah winning. Girah sort of had Lock by the balls at this time becuase during this time period he was the golden boy of poker... but we all know how that worked out.

    *I'll pose the following theory on why Lock handled it like they did: They simply didn't have the absolute proof needed to cut the kid loose of his contract, so they decided to handle it the way they did instead of saying "we strongly suspect and believe Macedo chip-dumped". It turns out that the proof of someone playing on his account (can't remember if it turned out to be jungleman or DogisHead) was an absolute irerfutable fact.*
    Totally disagree with this.

    They announced Girah as the winner. If they were really investigating the legitimacy of his win, they could have held back the announcement of the winner, claiming they were verifying the results. They didn't do that. They were happy to promote Girah as the winner (despite his OBVIOUS cheating) because they were going to gain from his exposure on the cover of BLUFF as a result.

    I also don't believe this had anything to do with his contract. That was a separate matter. If they were really worried about the legal ramifications of terminating his pro contract, they could have simply disqualified him from the contest and removed him as a pro from the website, but still compensated him according to the contract until they felt it legally proper to release him. They didn't do this. They attempted to profit from the cheating (by ignoring it and promoting him as the winner), and then put out a completely dishonest press release when they were finally forced to disqualify him.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O
    #2 Lock Poker has a lot of standup poker pros on the roster as well as some I know nothing about, and considering the likes of ZeeJustin, Sorel Mizzi et al. have been sponsored in the past by other sites, Tim West is meh. I have no idea why they even signed him other than he is good friends with Matt Stout I believe.
    This means nothing. Most pros sign up as sponsored players because they want the money. Few ever do research into the site sponsoring them, and most don't even care if the site is shady.

    As evidence of how money can change someone and their morality, take a look at how Eric "Rizen" Lynch, someone once highly respected in the poker world for his integrity, is handling his job as Lock Poker Cardroom Manager. He has become a company yes-man and excuse-maker. Many joined Lock because of Lynch's great reputation, and a lot of those people are highly disappointed as he stonewalls them when they bring up valid concerns.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O
    #3 "I'm not even going to go into the terrible relationship they've had with their affiliates, several of whom have expressed outrage and frustration with them." This is precisley the opposite of what I know of their relations. They are in good standing with BLUFF, Cardplayer, PNB. I'd like to know which affiliates have complained about Lock and whether these reports have been verified, links if possible
    Being in good standing doesn't mean that the companies are happy with them -- just that they are generating a lot of money.

    Many affiliates have complained about Lock's shady, behind-the-scenes actions, both in dealing with Lock directly and Lock's obnoxious player poaching attempts.

    Several have come to me with horror stories but asked me not to share them, for fear of lawsuits or whatever.

    But trust me, there are many affiliates unhappy with them. That's not a problem the average player has to worry about, but it's yet another strike against them.

    Steve, how do you feel about their Casino Bonus scam, and their subsequent handling of it?

  8. #28
    Gold Steve-O's Avatar
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    Totally disagree with this.

    They announced Girah as the winner. If they were really investigating the legitimacy of his win, they could have held back the announcement of the winner, claiming they were verifying the results. They didn't do that. They were happy to promote Girah as the winner (despite his OBVIOUS cheating) because they were going to gain from his exposure on the cover of BLUFF as a result.

    I also don't believe this had anything to do with his contract. That was a separate matter. If they were really worried about the legal ramifications of terminating his pro contract, they could have simply disqualified him from the contest and removed him as a pro from the website, but still compensated him according to the contract until they felt it legally proper to release him. They didn't do this. They attempted to profit from the cheating (by ignoring it and promoting him as the winner), and then put out a completely dishonest press release when they were finally forced to disqualify him.
    You have to remember that this contest was being run by Lock Poker, PokerNewsBoy, and BLUFF Magazine. It was called the Bluff Pro Challenge, and as soon as it ended Bluff had the story up that Girah won the thing (there was a bit of competition between BLUFF and PNB to scoop the other and win the SEO battle for this competition); we went with the story soon after (I write for PNB); and soon after that we caught wind of the investigation--So on this front I would blame the news outlets not Lock Poker, since nobody consulted with Lock before announcing the winner. As you recalled, PNB went down for a couple days soon after this --the unsexy reason was a server change and the owner going away for the weekend, nothing nefarious just bad timing.

    Again, this is just my understanding of the timeline of things

    This means nothing. Most pros sign up as sponsored players because they want the money. Few ever do research into the site sponsoring them, and most don't even care if the site is shady.

    As evidence of how money can change someone and their morality, take a look at how Eric "Rizen" Lynch, someone once highly respected in the poker world for his integrity, is handling his job as Lock Poker Cardroom Manager. He has become a company yes-man and excuse-maker. Many joined Lock because of Lynch's great reputation, and a lot of those people are highly disappointed as he stonewalls them when they bring up valid concerns.
    Basically unless you're name is Negreanu, Brunson, Hellmuth and mayber a dozen other people you're sponsorship means very little to a site other than a walking billboard at a poker tournament (which is a far cheaper way than buying TV ad time or sponsoring the event to get your brand out there). i don't think people should put any creedence into who a site's sponsored players are unless they have additional responsibilities with the site (sebok or Lynch).

    Being in good standing doesn't mean that the companies are happy with them -- just that they are generating a lot of money.

    Many affiliates have complained about Lock's shady, behind-the-scenes actions, both in dealing with Lock directly and Lock's obnoxious player poaching attempts.

    Several have come to me with horror stories but asked me not to share them, for fear of lawsuits or whatever.

    But trust me, there are many affiliates unhappy with them. That's not a problem the average player has to worry about, but it's yet another strike against them.

    Steve, how do you feel about their Casino Bonus scam, and their subsequent handling of it?
    Damn sources that don't want their names out there!

    Steve, how do you feel about their Casino Bonus scam, and their subsequent handling of it?
    I'm not overly familair with this other than a quick skimming what you and a few others have stated on the matter. Honestly I can't even recall hearing about this deal, but I do remeber this one that happened in June: http://pokernewsboy.com/lock-poker/vip-program

    If all of the stories are accurate (and they appear to be), they handled it terribly if they said they advertised it wrong, as any businessperson knows at that point you just eat the loss. Unfortunately this a symptom of an unregulated industry --sites are constantly changing their terms and conditions and always state that they reserve the right to "change" things.

    Have you ever contacted Jennifer Larson on this matter? It would be nice to hear her respond to this thread or even get her on an upcoming radio show. If you can't get in touch with her I might be able to help.
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

  9. #29
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    If you could get Jennifer Larson to talk to me on radio, I'll run a show immediately.

    I think that's highly unlikely, though. She's very aware of the controversy, and just wants no part of it.

    Lock is choosing to ignore the situation and is just keeping the extra rakeback they promised to so many grinders that switched to play there. It's outright theft, and pretty much validates every other terrible thing said about Lock over the years.

    Regarding Girah, if it was really PokerNewsBoy or BLUFF's fault for running a story about the winner before Lock's confirming of it, they would have had an easy "out" of this mess (by simply blaming it on the media announcing a winner before they confirmed it.) But that never happened. Lock never claimed that the media prematurely reported a winner. In fact, they happily went along with Girah being the winner until public outrage was raised about the matter.

  10. #30
    Gold Steve-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    If you could get Jennifer Larson to talk to me on radio, I'll run a show immediately.

    I think that's highly unlikely, though. She's very aware of the controversy, and just wants no part of it.

    Lock is choosing to ignore the situation and is just keeping the extra rakeback they promised to so many grinders that switched to play there. It's outright theft, and pretty much validates every other terrible thing said about Lock over the years.

    Regarding Girah, if it was really PokerNewsBoy or BLUFF's fault for running a story about the winner before Lock's confirming of it, they would have had an easy "out" of this mess (by simply blaming it on the media announcing a winner before they confirmed it.) But that never happened. Lock never claimed that the media prematurely reported a winner. In fact, they happily went along with Girah being the winner until public outrage was raised about the matter.
    This is sort of semantics but, the contest was updated (at least once per day) on a leader-board page, so everyone saw Girah's name on top at the end of the predetermined time period --I think it was April 1-30 if I recall correctly. When I checked it the day after the contest ended there he was on top and there was the BLUFF article already up. There was also something posted by Girah about winning. So blaming people for not confirming with Lock to make sure everything was on the up-and-up is kind of silly (nobody checked with the IOC before calling Ben Johnson the winner of the 100m and nobody had pie on their face after he was stripped of the gold, this stuff happens from time to time --FLORIDA, 2000, ANYONE). We also ran the updated story of Girah's DQ and Michael Drummond winning when the facts came out; nobody was burying what happened, especially not myself as anyone who reads my blog or articles knows I don't cover things up.

    ***EDIT*** after a little digging I did find an article on RizenPoker where Larson talks about Macedo winning on May 3: http://rizenpoker.com/blog/online-po...pro-challenge: by May 4 he was DQ'ed, so if nobody complained you are likely right that they would have let Macedo keep the title. It's going to be impossible to know if they just went with the official account or if they had knowledge that something shady took place --my guess would be they had to have looked at what happened after a 1-day $100k swing to win a major contest. I would posit that they would have let it just go quietly into the night if they had the chance, so you are likely right on that front.

    Still, I think you are overestimating the conspiracy involved in this: I don't think Jen was looking for an out, or even contemplated that the contest wasn't on the level from one of her own pros initially, and this was some predetermined fiasco to have Girah win the award. I think she realized (or I HOPE she realized) that there was a lot of evidence for a chip-dump having taken place, it became public, and tried to protect her new golden boy but still make the situation right --incredibly dishonest and shady behavior for sure, but not quite conspiritorial at the outset.

    Now at this point they should have washed their hands of Girah completely; to me keeping him on was the biggest F'up of the whole thing and came back to bite her in the ass a second time. They posted what they had him dead to rights on, and implied that there may have been other offenses (which was obvious to any serious player). They also stood by his BS statement and put it in an official press release, so that was bad too.

    I'll see what I can do about a potential interview, I think at the least she would come by and respond in the thread.
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

  11. #31
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    Dan's writeup - Very good writeup. My only complaint is that you talk about CalvinAyre's articles and don't mention that apparently Jennifer Larson worked for CalvinAyre and those articles they have written don't have many damaging facts in them (mostly bitter personal insults and pictures and speculation). I think leaving out the Ayre articles makes the story more accurate, informative and honest.

    Dan's comments about the affiliates/SteveO's response - I have heard the same things from multiple affiliates. Some are in contracts, others are simply surviving on affiliate revenue from Lock and many people just flat out hope things get better with Lock and hope that the player money is there, so that they can sleep a little better at night knowing that the money they took for referring players wasn't at the expense of their entire accounts (just their bonus money that was promised to them).

    But it kind of baffles me that you would say PNB and Bluff have a good affiliate relationship with Lock. Did you guys read Dan's post? You are the sites that should be covering these news stories, you're like... the poker news media right? Or are you a purely entertainment website now? Shouldn't you be a concerned affiliate of Lock's, asking them tough questions about most of what Dan writes about?

    Anyways, PNB and Bluff aside, yes, I can verify myself that there are Lock affiliates unhappy with many of the Lock actions that Dan describes (not that the statement is very surprising to me given Lock's actions, any honest reputable person would be concerned about what Lock is doing, but you seemed mystified by Dan's claims).

    I think you should update your In Depth Look At Lock Poker article: http://pokernewsboy.com/poker-room-n...ock-poker/6065

    There's no mention of anything in Dan's thread here, and that is obviously incredibly valuable information. You should also correct the error that says Lock Poker is the softest poker room online. That claim could never have been true, as they are a skin that shares the exact same playerbase as many other skins on the network. At best, Lock could share the softest playerbase in the world with 30-40 other skins on the Merge Network. But the truth doesn't always look as pretty/isn't as easy to sell.

    Given the actions of Lock, I think we're getting to the point to where tougher questions and closer looks need to be given to player fund security. Given the actions (failures) in many more manageable situations, given that public reports indicate that Lock is processing cashouts on their own, outside of the Merge fund segregation/layer of security and given that other Merge skin owners have publicly talked about the dangers of that (even before Lock was doing it, so not just a competitor talking down to another one.. and it was the reputable Hero Poker CEO that talked about it on 2p2), also given that the regulator specifically said Lock wasn't licensed by them last year, only the Merge Network was (they didn't call out other skins, just Lock in particular), doesn't that seem like a pretty valid question to be thinking about now?

    I don't understand the way some of you people act though. I certainly had a UB and AP rakeback offer up until the day they went down on my site. But when users asked what the softest site was, I told them (for the games my site represents) Carbon and Bodog were just as soft as UB/AP, and without the scandal. Users still had a choice to sign up at UB/AP, and some did, but I'm sure less signed up there after reading every answer to the question I gave over the years that included facts and links about the UB/AP scandal and subsequent coverup and really poor actions by the network. Imagine if I had told them UB and AP were really good, reputable, soft sites and they should sign up. How would I look today? What would I say to customers that entrusted me to give them accurate information from my more informed position?

    So why not report some of the concerns about Lock on PokerNewsBoy? Why not get some Bluff news coverage on this? You don't have to drop them as an affiliate, but if you're going to rep them, why are there no stories about Lock's role in these scandals (particularly the casino bonuses scandal) and why do you keep a page that erroneously claims Lock is the softest poker room online up on your site? Dan Druff shouldn't have to be reporting these things and telling people about the actions of Lock, it's the poker news media's job and they seem to be largely failing (and have for the last year or so since these issues began).

    Where's Jennifer's post/interview too? These aren't just a few random concerns, these are things Dan calls outright frauds, and I don't see anybody arguing that the casino bonus actions were anything less than a fraud. They dishonestly promised a bunch of extra stuff to players and hurt a lot of other businesses that delivered on what they promised. In a better market, the regulator might actually care about this, or the Merge Network. You'd think the poker news media would too. But when Merge gets a cut of Lock's rake, when the regulator gets a cut of the entire Network's rake (or fees per year based on server load, however that setup is working over there) and when the news sites are getting advertising money, I guess we can see why this story is in this thread and not on the cover of Bluff Magazine or being debated in the courts of law.

  12. #32
    Gold Steve-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyPac13 View Post
    Dan's writeup - Very good writeup. My only complaint is that you talk about CalvinAyre's articles and don't mention that apparently Jennifer Larson worked for CalvinAyre and those articles they have written don't have many damaging facts in them (mostly bitter personal insults and pictures and speculation). I think leaving out the Ayre articles makes the story more accurate, informative and honest.

    Dan's comments about the affiliates/SteveO's response - I have heard the same things from multiple affiliates. Some are in contracts, others are simply surviving on affiliate revenue from Lock and many people just flat out hope things get better with Lock and hope that the player money is there, so that they can sleep a little better at night knowing that the money they took for referring players wasn't at the expense of their entire accounts (just their bonus money that was promised to them).

    But it kind of baffles me that you would say PNB and Bluff have a good affiliate relationship with Lock. Did you guys read Dan's post? You are the sites that should be covering these news stories, you're like... the poker news media right? Or are you a purely entertainment website now? Shouldn't you be a concerned affiliate of Lock's, asking them tough questions about most of what Dan writes about?

    Anyways, PNB and Bluff aside, yes, I can verify myself that there are Lock affiliates unhappy with many of the Lock actions that Dan describes (not that the statement is very surprising to me given Lock's actions, any honest reputable person would be concerned about what Lock is doing, but you seemed mystified by Dan's claims).

    I think you should update your In Depth Look At Lock Poker article: http://pokernewsboy.com/poker-room-n...ock-poker/6065

    There's no mention of anything in Dan's thread here, and that is obviously incredibly valuable information. You should also correct the error that says Lock Poker is the softest poker room online. That claim could never have been true, as they are a skin that shares the exact same playerbase as many other skins on the network. At best, Lock could share the softest playerbase in the world with 30-40 other skins on the Merge Network. But the truth doesn't always look as pretty/isn't as easy to sell.

    Given the actions of Lock, I think we're getting to the point to where tougher questions and closer looks need to be given to player fund security. Given the actions (failures) in many more manageable situations, given that public reports indicate that Lock is processing cashouts on their own, outside of the Merge fund segregation/layer of security and given that other Merge skin owners have publicly talked about the dangers of that (even before Lock was doing it, so not just a competitor talking down to another one.. and it was the reputable Hero Poker CEO that talked about it on 2p2), also given that the regulator specifically said Lock wasn't licensed by them last year, only the Merge Network was (they didn't call out other skins, just Lock in particular), doesn't that seem like a pretty valid question to be thinking about now?

    I don't understand the way some of you people act though. I certainly had a UB and AP rakeback offer up until the day they went down on my site. But when users asked what the softest site was, I told them (for the games my site represents) Carbon and Bodog were just as soft as UB/AP, and without the scandal. Users still had a choice to sign up at UB/AP, and some did, but I'm sure less signed up there after reading every answer to the question I gave over the years that included facts and links about the UB/AP scandal and subsequent coverup and really poor actions by the network. Imagine if I had told them UB and AP were really good, reputable, soft sites and they should sign up. How would I look today? What would I say to customers that entrusted me to give them accurate information from my more informed position?

    So why not report some of the concerns about Lock on PokerNewsBoy? Why not get some Bluff news coverage on this? You don't have to drop them as an affiliate, but if you're going to rep them, why are there no stories about Lock's role in these scandals (particularly the casino bonuses scandal) and why do you keep a page that erroneously claims Lock is the softest poker room online up on your site? Dan Druff shouldn't have to be reporting these things and telling people about the actions of Lock, it's the poker news media's job and they seem to be largely failing (and have for the last year or so since these issues began).

    Where's Jennifer's post/interview too? These aren't just a few random concerns, these are things Dan calls outright frauds, and I don't see anybody arguing that the casino bonus actions were anything less than a fraud. They dishonestly promised a bunch of extra stuff to players and hurt a lot of other businesses that delivered on what they promised. In a better market, the regulator might actually care about this, or the Merge Network. You'd think the poker news media would too. But when Merge gets a cut of Lock's rake, when the regulator gets a cut of the entire Network's rake (or fees per year based on server load, however that setup is working over there) and when the news sites are getting advertising money, I guess we can see why this story is in this thread and not on the cover of Bluff Magazine or being debated in the courts of law.
    I was going to post a lengthy response, but I deleted it and will respond to this tomorrow, considering he is basically calling out poker media types. I will say this though: Poker media writers and personalities are not paid like investigative journalists and are not compensated in a way that makes this type of reporting feasible. Only one person has ever undertaken this role successfully (Haley Hintze) and she did so on her own time. Nor do I think an online poekr media outlet would post such a story since they are intertwined with the poker sites themselves.

    Druff's entire write-up (which is terrific) is simply parsed from bits and pieces across the Internet and compiled together along with his own specualtion and opinions. To get to the bottom of these issues (from a journalistic standpoint) would take months and countless of hours of investigation, building up a contact network and so on.

    If you want to hear my thoughts on most of this you can listen to Filthy Limper tonight: BUT, every online poker room that has been operating in the US since UIGEA passed in2006 has been breaking the law, and regardless of whether you agree with the law or not, every single US poker room has been engaged in very shady activityduring that time.
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

  13. #33
    Gold Steve-O's Avatar
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    This is my response to the recent poster. I have inserted counterpoints regarding his assertions thorought.

    Dan's writeup - Very good writeup. My only complaint is that you talk about CalvinAyre's articles and don't mention that apparently Jennifer Larson worked for CalvinAyre and those articles they have written don't have many damaging facts in them (mostly bitter personal insults and pictures and speculation). I think leaving out the Ayre articles makes the story more accurate, informative and honest.

    I agree with this.

    Dan's comments about the affiliates/SteveO's response - I have heard the same things from multiple affiliates. Some are in contracts, others are simply surviving on affiliate revenue from Lock and many people just flat out hope things get better with Lock and hope that the player money is there, so that they can sleep a little better at night knowing that the money they took for referring players wasn't at the expense of their entire accounts (just their bonus money that was promised to them).

    But it kind of baffles me that you would say PNB and Bluff have a good affiliate relationship with Lock. Did you guys read Dan's post? You are the sites that should be covering these news stories, you're like... the poker news media right? Or are you a purely entertainment website now? Shouldn't you be a concerned affiliate of Lock's, asking them tough questions about most of what Dan writes about?

    This is where you are the most out of touch. There are numerous jobs in media; ONE of those jobs is investigative journalism. This is the type of journalism that Haley Hintze has been doing on AP and UB (on her own time and with no guarantee of compensation). Unfortunately, the poker media is not equipped to hire investigative journalists, neither the time nor the money is there. It would be great if they could do this, but it’s not going to happen.

    Yes, most poker media outlets focus on two things Entertainment and being informative in a straight reporting kind of way. Saying the poker media has dropped the ball or is not doing their job in investigating online poker sites is ridiculous! Should I spend 6-months investigating Lock Poker, flying to Canada and building up a contact base of inside informants, to write an expose that might land me a few hundred dollars on a good day???? Is PokerNews or BLUFF or PNB going to give me a weekly stipend and pay my expenses while I conduct these investigations?

    Face it, there are no Bob Woodward’s in the poker world because nobody is going to pay to have an investigative reporter on the payrolls. It’s insulting to think you believe the poker media doesn’t care about this stuff; we do, but I also care about my family eating.

    It’s not my job to repot on every allegation, scam, and scandal that goes on in the poker world: I have never called myself an investigative journalist, and I have never accepted the challenge of “outing” the bad people in the poker world.


    Anyways, PNB and Bluff aside, yes, I can verify myself that there are Lock affiliates unhappy with many of the Lock actions that Dan describes (not that the statement is very surprising to me given Lock's actions, any honest reputable person would be concerned about what Lock is doing, but you seemed mystified by Dan's claims).

    Honestly, this is same argument Druff is making, and without posting the specifics of their complaints this is just hearsay, and idle speculation. Without listing the details of these claims you shouldn’t mention them at all. Anonymous sources of fine as long as the details of their complaints are specific.
    Lock Poker has affiliate ads and ad-buy space on BLUFF, Cardplayer (where they sponsor the online player of the year leader-board) and virtually every other major poker media outlet.


    How can you claim they are in bad standings with affiliates when the largest affiliates seem to have no issue with them?
    I think you should update your In Depth Look At Lock Poker article: http://pokernewsboy.com/poker-room-n...ock-poker/6065

    There's no mention of anything in Dan's thread here, and that is obviously incredibly valuable information. You should also correct the error that says Lock Poker is the softest poker room online. That claim could never have been true, as they are a skin that shares the exact same playerbase as many other skins on the network. At best, Lock could share the softest playerbase in the world with 30-40 other skins on the Merge Network. But the truth doesn't always look as pretty/isn't as easy to sell.

    Explain to me (other your semantic argument about Lock vs. Merge as a whole) what is non-factual about anything I wrote in that article from March 2011? I was critical of their software despite this being something of a PR piece for the site, the games at the time were extremely loose, and this was written before Girah, Casino Bonuses, and everything else.

    Given the actions of Lock, I think we're getting to the point to where tougher questions and closer looks need to be given to player fund security. Given the actions (failures) in many more manageable situations, given that public reports indicate that Lock is processing cashouts on their own, outside of the Merge fund segregation/layer of security and given that other Merge skin owners have publicly talked about the dangers of that (even before Lock was doing it, so not just a competitor talking down to another one.. and it was the reputable Hero Poker CEO that talked about it on 2p2), also given that the regulator specifically said Lock wasn't licensed by them last year, only the Merge Network was (they didn't call out other skins, just Lock in particular), doesn't that seem like a pretty valid question to be thinking about now?

    And we can believe any of this why? Who says Merge segregates funds and Lock doesn’t; where’s the proof? Who owns Merge for that matter? Full Tilt Poker answered every E-Mail inquiring if funds were segregated in the affirmative, how did that work out?

    Because Lock was the first to put the license on their website –they did this before the licensing process was fully complete, and the LGA admitted this was merely a technicality –the same LGA that licenses PokerStars licenses Lock.

    I don't understand the way some of you people act though. I certainly had a UB and AP rakeback offer up until the day they went down on my site. But when users asked what the softest site was, I told them (for the games my site represents) Carbon and Bodog were just as soft as UB/AP, and without the scandal. Users still had a choice to sign up at UB/AP, and some did, but I'm sure less signed up there after reading every answer to the question I gave over the years that included facts and links about the UB/AP scandal and subsequent coverup and really poor actions by the network. Imagine if I had told them UB and AP were really good, reputable, soft sites and they should sign up. How would I look today? What would I say to customers that entrusted me to give them accurate information from my more informed position?

    This is interesting. You kept offering UB/AP after a proven insider scandal, up until the day they went down; but you’re ready to throw Lock under the bus for far less.

    So why not report some of the concerns about Lock on PokerNewsBoy? Why not get some Bluff news coverage on this? You don't have to drop them as an affiliate, but if you're going to rep them, why are there no stories about Lock's role in these scandals (particularly the casino bonuses scandal) and why do you keep a page that erroneously claims Lock is the softest poker room online up on your site? Dan Druff shouldn't have to be reporting these things and telling people about the actions of Lock, it's the poker news media's job and they seem to be largely failing (and have for the last year or so since these issues began).

    Do a search of PNB and even more so my personal blog, I have discussed the Girah situation more than anyone in poker media.

    I have been very upfront with my lack of knowledge on the Casino Bonus scandal (which still seems to be unfolding as I try to get caught up on it at 2+2). From what I understand of the scandal, Lock Poker was prepared to honor the Casino Bonus thing (in an effort to pilch players from other skins) but Merge called an end to it.


    Where's Jennifer's post/interview too? These aren't just a few random concerns, these are things Dan calls outright frauds, and I don't see anybody arguing that the casino bonus actions were anything less than a fraud. They dishonestly promised a bunch of extra stuff to players and hurt a lot of other businesses that delivered on what they promised. In a better market, the regulator might actually care about this, or the Merge Network. You'd think the poker news media would too. But when Merge gets a cut of Lock's rake, when the regulator gets a cut of the entire Network's rake (or fees per year based on server load, however that setup is working over there) and when the news sites are getting advertising money, I guess we can see why this story is in this thread and not on the cover of Bluff Magazine or being debated in the courts of law.

    I’m not a lock PR person or Jennifer Larson’s personal assistant. If Druff reached out to her and she doesn’t want to get involved that’s her business. Personally, I think she should, and she should face the hard questions Druff would undoubtedly ask. I said I could put him in contact with her and it seemed to me from his reply he has already reached out to her –if I’m wrong on this than he can correct me.




    First off, I have ZERO vested in Lock Poker as an affiliate and am not on Lock’s payroll. It just seems odd to me that so many people are willing to take forum speculation, about segregated funds; who’s shady; and so on, and simply ignore the fact that this shit is going on at every online poker site to varying degrees.

    Let’s not forget the way Druff and Micon denounced Victory Poker on DD radio. Same vitriol, same opinion and speculation. And guess what? That site went under and everyone got their money.

    Should you be skeptical of Lock Poker? Certainly! You should be skeptical of every online poker room at this point in time. But to be calling lock Poker the new UB is taking sever liberties with the facts.

    Druff’s post is terrific, but it’s a one-sided argument that people should most definitely use to weigh their online poker options. I could make a similar lengthy post of PokerStars “crimes” over the years as well, throw in a few opinions and speculation on their motives, and make them look just as bad.

    Finally, this IS a matter for poker forums and blogs; poker media is there to cover what has happened and report on the facts as we know them (which we don’t always get right), not throw out potentially libelous claims based on our gut feelings about a room or speculate on their motives for calling Girah the winner of a contest and then later rescinding.

    I’m proud of my track record in the industry, and I stand by what I write. If they are opinions I am sure to make my readers aware of that fact. And even when “fluff” PR pieces are requested I make sure that what I write is accurate, as with the Lock Poker piece cited above –what type of editorial liberties the person I write it for takes is another matter entirely. I have turned down jobs based on what I was asked to do and have refunded money and had reviews taken down when they took too much editorial liberty with my work.

    Do I get everything right? Absolutely not. Do I miss stories, YES! But to question the poker media’s motives for not uncovering these issues is totally insulting.

    • I have extensively covered the Girah scandals and am one of the few people that deeply explored Jungleman’s role in it.
    • I am the only person in mainstream poker media who covered the StoxTrader collusion accusations and the PeachyMer fiasco.
    • I have written a ton UB and AP’s Super-User scandals and interviewed both sides. I wrote extensively on DD’s Travis Makar findings.
    • Do a search of my name (Steve Ruddock) and poker scandals and then tell me I don’t cover this stuff
    • I write extensively on cheating, scams, and scandals: I apologize that I missed this one, and I assure you I am doing my homework on it now and will post something in the future
    Last edited by Steve-O; 04-13-2012 at 06:34 AM.
    I write things about poker at my Poker Blog and elsewhere on the Internets

  14. #34
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Mainstream poker "media" is pretty good at covering mundane, non-controversial topics (such as tournament write-ups and player interviews), but really bad at reporting "news" type items. They're especially bad at news items if such coverage would serve to hurt their advertisers.

    The coverage of the AP/UB scandals -- probably the biggest stories ever to hit poker -- was abysmal.

    I don't like Steve-O's explanation that they simply don't have the resources to do investigative reporting. It goes far beyind that. In the UP/AB situation, the investigative reporting was already done for them by the players-turned-detectives that got cheated. The main poker media outlets avoided this topic like it was contagious with a horrible disease. Several continued affiliate/advertising relationships up until the very end.

    This saddens me because I feel that poker media owes at least a little bit back to the community that has supported them. Sure, you can keep quiet (or mostly quiet) about your most generous advertisers cheating people. Sure, that will make you more money in both the short run and the long run. But is it right? Is it ethical? Definitely not.

    I really wish the poker media saw itself as part of a closet-knit community that it cares about, rather than just an entertainment outlet looking to make a buck. If you run an affiliate program (or advertisements) for websites that you KNOW are shady, you are guilty of misleading your customers and taking advantage of their trust. Some rationalize that their users already know about these scandals and are choosing to play anyway, but that's not true. Many players are surprisingly ignorant when it comes to news about poker scandals. A lot of this is actually because of the mainstream poker media trying to sweep these scandals under the rug!

    As members of the poker community, I feel that it's our civic duty to collectively boycott these cheat sites, and not rationalize why it's okay to support them or have a business partnership with them.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Regarding Steve-O and Pokernewsboy.com:

    First, I would like to say that Steve-O is a great poster here, and his presence really adds a lot to this site.

    He is also correct that, unlike other many other poker media sites, he has given a lot of coverage to the various scandals to have hit online poker.

    I believe, for example, that Pokernewsboy was the first to cover the Girah scandal on Lock Poker.

    Do I wish that Steve-O would take down his Lock affiliate links from Pokernewsboy? Yes.

    Do I think that he sees Lock Poker in a more favorable light than they deserve? Yes.

    But you can't accuse Steve-O of ignoring scandals or stories that make his affiliate partners look bad. He's definitely not guilty of that.

    Steve, I haven't contacted Lock CEO Jennifer Larson for an interview. I figured it would be a waste of my time. If you would like to arrange one and can work that miracle, I would love it -- though I doubt she would give me any kind of substantive answers on the toughest questions.

    Regarding the security of our money on Lock and Merge, I am less concerned about that. Well, I mean, I'm concerned, but I think that few of us are naive enough to believe that small networks like Merge are segregating player funds. We'd like to believe it when we have a balance on these sites, but in reality, if they ever get busted, we can probably kiss our money goodbye. That's part of the risk I accept when I play on a network like Merge. I realize that my money isn't all that secure. I think most players realize this. I'm not making excuses for Merge, but at the same time, I don't think your funds on Lock are much more at risk than they are on the rest of the Merge network.

    My bigger problems lie with Lock's blatant cheating of their own players. Those scandals (and Lock's subsequent cover-ups) remind me eerily of AP/UB's handling of their scandals. Sure, Lock's scandals are smaller in scope than AP and UB, but does that really make their intent or trustworthiness any different? I see them as all cut from the same cloth.

    Don't believe that the Casino Bonus scandal was the result of Merge clamping down on an unauthorized promotion. Yes, that's what initially caused the problem, but Lock has had a thousand opportunities to make it right for the aggrieved players, and they haven't. They've just endlessly stalled and lied about the situation, ultimately cheating their most loyal players out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. They are hiding behind Merge's anonymity and desire to keep out of the public eye and pretty much blaming it on network rules. Without the network coming forward and contradicting them, it's believable, right?

    But they're simply not telling the truth. I know a good deal about Merge's relationships with its skins, and I can assure you that Lock could have easily compensated the players who lost out on their promised additional rakeback. Lock just isn't doing it because they want to keep the money for themselves. Shameful. This is nothing short of fraud.

    But that's far from the only incident on Lock. Between the Casino Bonus scam, the Girah scandal, the Tim West signing, and the plain-text "security" of passwords, I think it's pretty damn clear how Lock runs their business, and how they will never hesitate to cheat their best customers.

    The thing that saddens me most about Lock Poker is how so many people are willing to ignore it and repeatedly forgive them for their transgressions.

    Do people not remember AP?

    Do people not remember UB?

    Do people not remember Full Tilt?!

    If we keep giving a free pass to companies that seem very shady and provide no explanation for their ongoing questionable behavior, then we haven't learned a thing.

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    Gold Shizzmoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    Do people not remember AP?

    Do people not remember UB?

    Do people not remember Full Tilt?!
    But they have rakeback, dude!

    The Lock Brand has been under sketch for years, way before they joined Merge network.

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    TRUMP 2024!

    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Just non-stop unrelenting LGBT propaganda being shoved down our throats.

  18. #38
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    Druff, are you surprised that the Mizrachis are doing business with Lock even if it is only to promote themselves?

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    Last edited by shortbuspoker; 05-07-2012 at 08:25 AM.

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    FYI, i have stopped playing on my Lock acct and switched all my action over to another skin on merge which is run by a much more reputable person; i dont want to seem like im advertising...anyways.

    its funny because I raked a pretty decent number up each month for Lock since black friday, and the only thing Lock has done to try and keep me as a player was release a $20 bonus in the casino which had some playthrough requirement lol, ya good one lock that will definitely make me come back LOL

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    More shadiness and scamming from Lock; they scammed an affiliate out of his CPA payments, then closed his account because he discussed it on a public forum. Not only is the way they screwed this affiliate disgusting, but it has been revealed that the Lock T&C allows them to close any accounts and seize the funds of anyone who talks bad about them in any forum or other form of media. Here's a link to the relevant thread and subsequent write-ups more clearly explaining the situation:

    http://www.pokeraffiliatelistings.co...rgeback-7.html

    http://www.pokeraddict.net/lock-poke...ogram-warning/

    http://www.affiliatebible.com/progra...ram-review.php

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