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Thread: Black Friday 2016?? KGC announces they are banning US Players from all sites hosted there

  1. #1
    Gold ftpjesus's Avatar
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    Black Friday 2016?? KGC announces they are banning US Players from all sites hosted there

    Ironic in that I was recently discussing the licensing process with the KGC. In a press release issued today by the NJ AGs office apparently the KGC will be banning all US Players from sites hosted on their services (which means every KGC licensee as they are all hosted by Mohawk Technologies) This apparently explains whats going on with Bovada and means No more playing on Bovada even for sports betting and casino plays. (not sure where Ignition is hosted and licensed at since apparently its not KGC).. Heres a link to the PR from NJ AG office.

    http://www.nj.gov/oag/ge/2016news/Pr...ontinent_8.pdf

    I have to admit I'm shocked by the KGC is taking this action. Their MO has always been to tell regulators to go fuck themselves including Canadian Feds and Quebec Provincial authorities and why they would even remotely give a second thought to a US State AGs office just doesn't make sense.. There has to be somethingelse going on which makes me wonder if we are headed for another BF situation potentially..

     
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      GambleBotsChafedPenis: Information Rep

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    Nova Scotia's REAL #1 Webcam DJ sonatine's Avatar
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    Im sure its just a big misunderstanding and Trump will get it squared away just super, super fast.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  3. #3
    They will just move their servers.

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    Bronze VegasJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snake_in_the_ass View Post
    They will just move their servers.

    Exactly!
    Same ole thing they been doing for years. The feds and poker sites are basically playing a big game of 3 card monte. Will the servers be in Isle of Man? Antigua? Gibraltar?

    Rest assured, Bovada has its A Team on it and word has it they might even update servers/shitty software

    Name:  Bovada-Severs.jpg
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  5. #5
    Druff can just pretend to be a First Canadian and get his own license there.

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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Bovada was protecting it's American poker players because Kahnawake is where the data servers were for poker but O don't believe they were for sports.

    By adding these new servers several months back is where the lag has likely come because the shitty software patching they couldn't keep the ones serving Bodog Canada (still in Kahnawake) linked/connected to the new ones serving the Americans. This would be the reason why the servers disconnected for Americans from the main network allowed the tournaments to keep running on Bodog Canada

    I wouldn't rule out Ignition Casino offering sports betting in the upcoming months or Bovada shutting down completely claiming Ignition has bought up their sports book as well (even though we all know it's the same owners).

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Any comment from Bovada yet?

    Will Americans still be able to bet sports there on October 1?

    And yeah, this is definitely the reason for the Ignition thing, but I still don't quite understand what this accomplishes if they're still going to offer sportsbetting via Bovada.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Any comment from Bovada yet?

    Will Americans still be able to bet sports there on October 1?

    And yeah, this is definitely the reason for the Ignition thing, but I still don't quite understand what this accomplishes if they're still going to offer sportsbetting via Bovada.
    Isnt the sports betting based in the phillipines ?

     
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      hongkonger: stick around man

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    From the statement, it's implied Bovada is moving out of the Kahwanakes entirely:

    As a result, sites such as Bovada, a leading provider of illegal online sports wagering and other online gaming content, will no longer be operating out of the data center located in Kahnawake. Also after that date, the KGC will take regulatory action against any of its applicants or licensees found to be accepting such wagers.

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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    PDA document regarding Kahnawake cutting ties with Bovada at the beginning of the month:

    https://www.gamingcommission.ca/news/pr09022016a.pdf

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ftpjesus View Post
    I have to admit I'm shocked by the KGC is taking this action. Their MO has always been to tell regulators to go fuck themselves including Canadian Feds and Quebec Provincial authorities and why they would even remotely give a second thought to a US State AGs office just doesn't make sense
    Bill 74 in Quebec just passed which effectively monopolized internet gaming within the province. This maybe a part of a start of a truce b/t the government and the KGC so that the KGC can start hosting businesses to serve Quebec residents. From this VICE article:

    Deer says the government doesn't seem to realize the financial impact the implementation of this law would have for community, a loss she said would be in the millions of dollars.

    "To us, it's a direct impact, and the government doesn't seem to realize that. They say they created this law to ensure their citizens are protected from unregulated and offshore gaming activity, but we don't even fall in that category. We are not offshore, we are not unregulated," Deer said. "Why isn't there accomodation for us and our licensees?"

    Deer says this program falls under Mohawk jurisdiction and is thus a question of independence. "We have a full history dating back before pre-contact that we've conducted gaming not just for entertainment but wager purposes, so it's not like it's an activity we hadn't been doing pre-contact," Deer said. " For us it's very disheartening to see these sort of laws being created and no consultation or no accommodations for First Nations—especially Kahnawake—when they know how heavily we are involved in the industry."

    For now, the Kahnawake Mohawk Council is favouring political solutions rather than legal recourses, and Deer said Grand Chief Joe Norton has reached out to the Quebec government to schedule a meeting. She said other organizations have also contacted the Council to express solidarity or to discuss possible alliances.
    Those "alliances" also involve telecomms, who are tilted that they have to be the ones to block and shuttle non-Quebec websites.

    Quebec’s courts aren’t the only place where Bill 74 is facing a challenge. This month, the Public Interest Advocacy Centre — a consumer advocacy charity —filed an application with the CRTC in objection to the law, arguing it would lead to rising costs for consumers who would be called upon to subsidize the new infrastructure ISPs will need to build to block web content on a provincial basis.
    The main complaint of those who came up with Bill 74 wasn't that non-state sites existed and was taking business from state-run sites and therefore needed to be banned; it was that they were doing so without paying taxes on their profits. Those within the legislature of the Quebec government have stated a desire of having competitive gaming market; building a "Dutch-style" tax framework is simply not a good look politically for various reasons (jobs+competition, net neutrality, etc) and its a pain in the ass to implement (unless you live in China or North Korea). But they felt they had to pass the law because all of these non-state actors where taking millions, around $200m CAD each year away in tax revenue, from the province.

    So, what I think this is: it's alot like Party Poker when they exited the US market back in 2006 (along with paying a fine). They complied with the government instead of rolling the dice and continue to serve (and profit wildly) in illegal markets, so that when the eventual legal frameworks where in place for legal online poker in the states, that this would be remembered and they would get a head start on re-entering the scene legally. This paid off for Party, as they were one of the first legal sites in NJ when they passed their law a few years back.

    Just like Amaya has been playing nice PR and exited the Quebec market the minute Bill 74 was being drafted, so that when eventually Quebec's State protectionist law gets chipped away at, and private sites are allowed back into the market....they would get that same preferential treatment.....same here with the KGC. Amaya and PS now all too well the setbacks of being a "bad player" are, as example in the CA legislature.

    Those within the KGC have been bitching publicly that Bill 74 would cost their territories million in revenue and jobs. The Canadian Government as a whole has been getting shit on because of their treatment of those within the First Nations, whether it comes to job creation, education, and police brutality.

    So, and this is my theory, the Quebec govt (along with the NJ DOJ, who I am sure they are in contact with) made the starting of a process where they can go to the KGC and say, "Hey, we agree that we want those jobs and tax revenue from those businesses and labor to stay in your territory. But you guys are pissing off the American authorities by offering online betting to Americans illegally. If you stop that, we'll recognize this as a "good player clause" and we can restart an on-boarding process to get you folks back into the Canadian market, legally, once we re-write the tax framework within the QC territory."

     
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      sah_24: Party is basically failing in the licensed areas, while PS made billions. It has not paid off in any form or fashion . . . FAIL
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  12. #12
    Gold ftpjesus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shizzmoney View Post
    Bill 74 in Quebec just passed which effectively monopolized internet gaming within the province. This maybe a part of a start of a truce b/t the government and the KGC so that the KGC can start hosting businesses to serve Quebec residents. From this VICE article:

    Deer says the government doesn't seem to realize the financial impact the implementation of this law would have for community, a loss she said would be in the millions of dollars.

    "To us, it's a direct impact, and the government doesn't seem to realize that. They say they created this law to ensure their citizens are protected from unregulated and offshore gaming activity, but we don't even fall in that category. We are not offshore, we are not unregulated," Deer said. "Why isn't there accomodation for us and our licensees?"

    Deer says this program falls under Mohawk jurisdiction and is thus a question of independence. "We have a full history dating back before pre-contact that we've conducted gaming not just for entertainment but wager purposes, so it's not like it's an activity we hadn't been doing pre-contact," Deer said. " For us it's very disheartening to see these sort of laws being created and no consultation or no accommodations for First Nations—especially Kahnawake—when they know how heavily we are involved in the industry."

    For now, the Kahnawake Mohawk Council is favouring political solutions rather than legal recourses, and Deer said Grand Chief Joe Norton has reached out to the Quebec government to schedule a meeting. She said other organizations have also contacted the Council to express solidarity or to discuss possible alliances.
    Those "alliances" also involve telecomms, who are tilted that they have to be the ones to block and shuttle non-Quebec websites.

    Quebec’s courts aren’t the only place where Bill 74 is facing a challenge. This month, the Public Interest Advocacy Centre — a consumer advocacy charity —filed an application with the CRTC in objection to the law, arguing it would lead to rising costs for consumers who would be called upon to subsidize the new infrastructure ISPs will need to build to block web content on a provincial basis.
    The main complaint of those who came up with Bill 74 wasn't that non-state sites existed and was taking business from state-run sites and therefore needed to be banned; it was that they were doing so without paying taxes on their profits. Those within the legislature of the Quebec government have stated a desire of having competitive gaming market; building a "Dutch-style" tax framework is simply not a good look politically for various reasons (jobs+competition, net neutrality, etc) and its a pain in the ass to implement (unless you live in China or North Korea). But they felt they had to pass the law because all of these non-state actors where taking millions, around $200m CAD each year away in tax revenue, from the province.

    So, what I think this is: it's alot like Party Poker when they exited the US market back in 2006 (along with paying a fine). They complied with the government instead of rolling the dice and continue to serve (and profit wildly) in illegal markets, so that when the eventual legal frameworks where in place for legal online poker in the states, that this would be remembered and they would get a head start on re-entering the scene legally. This paid off for Party, as they were one of the first legal sites in NJ when they passed their law a few years back.

    Just like Amaya has been playing nice PR and exited the Quebec market the minute Bill 74 was being drafted, so that when eventually Quebec's State protectionist law gets chipped away at, and private sites are allowed back into the market....they would get that same preferential treatment.....same here with the KGC. Amaya and PS now all too well the setbacks of being a "bad player" are, as example in the CA legislature.

    Those within the KGC have been bitching publicly that Bill 74 would cost their territories million in revenue and jobs. The Canadian Government as a whole has been getting shit on because of their treatment of those within the First Nations, whether it comes to job creation, education, and police brutality.

    So, and this is my theory, the Quebec govt (along with the NJ DOJ, who I am sure they are in contact with) made the starting of a process where they can go to the KGC and say, "Hey, we agree that we want those jobs and tax revenue from those businesses and labor to stay in your territory. But you guys are pissing off the American authorities by offering online betting to Americans illegally. If you stop that, we'll recognize this as a "good player clause" and we can restart an on-boarding process to get you folks back into the Canadian market, legally, once we re-write the tax framework within the QC territory."
    Mostly likely possibly true as we know Uncle Sam here has a tendancy to think they can dictate business and financial dealings all over the world (FACTA). I have family up in Canada and I can tell you the Feds have strong intent to hammer Quebec over the part of Bill 74 for trying to usurp Federal Authority over Telecoms.. This would be like the California SCC (or whoever regulates utilities in the state) demanding AT&T, Verizon, Cox, and Comcast block access to Ignition and America's Cardroom etc.. The FCC would come down on Cali so fast and hard Gov Moonbeam wouldn't know what hit him.. Quebec despite their arrogant attitude and constant threats over the decades to break away have never had such authority to regulate telecoms in that way within the province.. Even with the PM Justin Treadeu being French Canadian he isn't about to let the Province step on clear Federal Govt Authority.
    b

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker View Post
    PDA document regarding Kahnawake cutting ties with Bovada at the beginning of the month:

    https://www.gamingcommission.ca/news/pr09022016a.pdf
    Good find. So they are already out of the KGC it appears. I'll check but the ? Is where did they go for new regulation. This NJ announcement shouldn't have any effect on operations as the would have moved servers for sports book and ignition already on or before September 1.

  14. #14
    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charham View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker View Post
    PDA document regarding Kahnawake cutting ties with Bovada at the beginning of the month:

    https://www.gamingcommission.ca/news/pr09022016a.pdf
    Good find. So they are already out of the KGC it appears. I'll check but the ? Is where did they go for new regulation. This NJ announcement shouldn't have any effect on operations as the would have moved servers for sports book and ignition already on or before September 1.
    On the Bovada and Ignition sites I couldn't find licensing info even though I will admit I didn't look too hard so maybe it is there but on Bodog.ca I see this:

    Our Credentials

    Founded in 1994, Bodog is considered an industry leader, providing Canadian players with a world-class sportsbook, a full Vegas-style casino, a thriving poker community and a fully-loaded racebook. Registered and licensed in the Caribbean Nation of Antigua, Bodog is regulated by the Antigua and Barbuda Financial Services Regulatory Commission, and its casino is 100% certified by iTech Labs.
    Since they are the same company perhaps it's all moved to Antigua at this point.

     
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      Charham: thanks, i looked as well and nothing i could find on the site. perhaps they are giving up the charade of regulation

  15. #15
    It looks like the entire reason that Bovada changed to Ignition was to circumvent the agreement that Kahnawake was planning to make with NJ. Kahnawake probably gave Bovada a heads up on their plans.

    The below article seems to be written by someone who has some knowledge of Ignition's future plans.

    http://www.usafriendlypokersites.com...gnition-poker/

     
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      Charham: thanks NJ, you accomplished nothing

  16. #16
    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    I received an interesting email from Ignition Casino this morning. This contains two images but I didn't leave any space in between so it should look like one I'm just saying that in case one of them don't show up for whatever reason.


    Name:  ignitionimg1.PNG
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    Name:  ignitionimg2.PNG
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    Now three things here.

    First off look at address part at the very bottom which lists a PO Box in the Kahnawake, QC. So they claim Ignition isn't Bovada, yet that address is in Kahnawake? Hmm...

    Secondly, in the Terms and Conditions it talks about the sportsbook and racebook not counting towards the bonus playthrough.

    Where is your sportsbook and racebook Ignition?

    Are they coming soon or is this just a horrible/lazy copy and paste job from Bodog/Bovada promotions?

    Lastly, be careful with any bonuses you claim with this site (if you are a table/slot game degen) because even if you win they have a max cap normally of 10x of the bonus amount that you can actually cashout and you forfeit the rest. Their were a few people posting in the Bovada/Ignition thread on 2+2 about winning huge jackpots in slots and only being able to get a certain amount because they were using free play.

    This seems like a great scheme for Ignition where they could rig it so the person on free play hits for the big progressive 50k, 100k, etc. jackpot so they only have to pay them a tiny portion of it while confiscating the rest.
    Last edited by BeerAndPoker; 10-01-2016 at 12:42 PM.

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