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Thread: Five years ago today

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Five years ago today

    August 14, 2011.

    I woke up and browsed Donkdown, as I had so many other days.

    I saw a "Donate" button on the top-left of the site. No explanation. No post about it by Micon. No e-mail about it to me. Just a donate button.

    I didn't even know where the money was supposed to be going, since I was supposed to be holding all the money for the site. (I think you can guess where it was going.)

    I then thought about a conversation from a week prior....

    Druff: Anyway, I've been wanting to talk to you about all these inactive forums we have, where nobody's posted in months. I want to consolidate a bunch of them. I almost went and did it on my own last night, but I figured you'd be pissed if I made a decision like that on my own.

    Micon: You're damn right I would've been pissed. You know we agreed never to make any changes without consulting the other!

    So I was dumbfounded.

    Somehow consolidating a bunch of super-inactive subforums without discussion would have been a sin, but posting a button for donations isn't discussion-worthy at all?

    This followed "hat-gate", where we had run out of DD hats to give away, or so I thought. I posted that I wished I could give away more hats, but we were completely out, and in fact felt bad that a few deserving active users missed out. Then someone found an eBay auction where Micon was quietly selling one for $8. This was highly embarrassing, and Micon never understood why I felt this looked bad for us.

    Between hatgate and the sudden, unexplained appearance of the donate button, we looked like pathetic beggars. Had I been consulted, I would have insisted that we precede it with an explanation, letting everyone know we couldn't get many sponsors due to our controversial content, and to donate if you enjoy the controversial content and free speech atmosphere. Instead, the button just appeared, and the users were already making fun of us about it in a new thread.

    I posted a sarcastic one-liner in response: "Glad to see I was informed about this beforehand."

    Micon saw it, and blew his top. He wrote his infamous "I CREATED THIS THING, DON'T YOU FUCKING FORGET THAT" post in response, outlining five reasons why I was terrible for Donkdown and had been holding it back from success.

    That was the beginning of the end.

    I was forced out of ownership there by a month later.

    During that month, the trolls residing at skatz, correctly sensing serious dissent in the ranks, all returned to Donkdown with the simple purpose of enflaming the situation. I'll give them credit. They were actually incredibly successful at doing so. I saw exactly what they were doing from day one, but Micon was blind to it, believing that this was simply "the return of old NWP", and this of course caused all kinds of further problems between us. I actually still get angry thinking about this situation, because it degenerated to some of these guys posting pics of little kids in my family with just their faces censored, and somehow Micon thought that should be okay. I sat there arguing for hours on the phone with him, where he kept insisting I was being "heavy handed" to ban people for this, and he was actually trying to lecture me that people should be allowed to post stolen pics of little kids in my famly, as long as "most" of their face/body is covered. I was exasperated. I kept asking him why, as a fucking owner of the site, I didn't have a right to stop ANY stolen family pics from being posted, especially of kids. "Free speech" was the answer.

    He kept unbanning anyone I banned for this or any other offense. Things deteriorated very quickly.

    It should be noted that many of the same skatz guys who posted these family pics (or supported them being posted) were among the first to PM me in 2014 after I got into the admin forum and I harvested tons of info. These PMs all expressed concern that I was going to post personal information about them or their families. Funny how what's good for the goose wasn't what was good for the gander. However, I was only interested at that point in ending things, so I told them that I wasn't going to do anything, provided the hostilities finally ceased. For the most part, other than some shitposting and a few todgers, they have.

    But I'm getting off course here.

    Bottom line is that the events of August 14, 2011 are the reason PFA exists today.

    When I left Donkdown a month later, I really believed I was leavng all of these poker forums for good. In fact, my only concern was to protect my family against further info/pics from being posted, which is why I sold my part of the site for a laughably cheap $1200 (which Micon made back from sponsors in 5 weeks) ON CREDIT. That is, Micon owned the site immediately but was able to wait until the site generated enough profit to actually pay me. In return, Micon signed a contract promising to keep my personal info off the site. The contract had no language forbidding a site like PFA being started, and in fact I told Micon there was a chance I would "start another site in 6-12 months", but at the time I left, I had no desire to do so.

    Indeed, six months later I did start my own site. Several people had been e-mailing me, saying that they missed my presence both on radio and in the forums, and that they really wanted me to start a new site. Eventually I agreed to do it, and PFA was born.

    Interestingly, I almost made the same mistake as I did with DD, letting someone else have a hand with being in charge. A user (one who posted here awhile but vanished around early 2014) offered to start a new site for me, and would do all of the technical work and design. At the time I had no experience running things like this from a technical standpoint, and was too lazy to learn all of it. I had the programming background, but there was still a learning curve. At the same time, I wasn't sure I wanted any kind of partner, even one who claimed he'd do it for free (as this guy was). I dragged my feet with giving this guy an answer, and he got insulted and rescinded the offer. At that point, I set out to do everything myself, and here we are.

     
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      RegGaymer: When the going gets Druff the Druff gets going

  2. #2
    Plutonium lol wow's Avatar
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    hey todger, great story

     
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      Muck Ficon: Great post!!! Back to skatz!!!

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    I liked you better when you were married.

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lol wow View Post
    hey todger, great story
    Did "todger" exist back in the day or did JackDaniels recently coin this on PFA?

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lol wow View Post
    hey todger, great story
    Did "todger" exist back in the day or did JackDaniels recently coin this on PFA?
    That was a 2016 creation.

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    Speedster Out of Clemson adamantium's Avatar
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    Micon seemd to be pretty bright so how he would think you were holding the site back is still mind-boggling to me

     
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      OSA: keyword "seemed"
      
      ShawnFanningsLimpDick: Micon was an "ideas guy" and some of his ideas were good. Unfortunately he under-estimated the aount of work needed to actually implement and deliver something from the idea to a finished product.

  7. #7
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamantium View Post
    Micon seemd to be pretty bright so how he would think you were holding the site back is still mind-boggling to me
    Micon's opinion of me slowly evolved over the years, and not in a good way.

    In the earlier days of our friendship, he was the first to defend me whenever anyone (who he knew in real life) criticized me behind my back.

    As time passed, a few people he respected (such as Schoenfeld, who I never knew had a problem with me) were in his ear, insisting that I was the big factor holding DD back from hitting the big time.

    This was further reinforced by conversations where Micon would ask a few of his Vegas friends why they didn't post at DD, and not wanting to simply tell him that they just didn't like the site, the answer was, "I don't like Druff and don't want to post where he has such a presence", or something similar.

    So Micon was delusional and pictured an alternate reality where, had I never gotten involved in NWP/DD, the site would have grown huge, replaced 2+2, made him all kinds of big money, and have also been the place where all the coolest kids in poker posted regularly (including those buddies from Vegas).

    Then I left and the reality set in. Without about 8 months, it was a complete ghost town. None of those people who "stayed away because of Druff" ever came to DD to post once I was gone. And Schoenfeld, who immediately attempted to replace me on radio, was basically booed off the stage by the audience, who realized they enjoyed him in small doses but hated his presence as a full fledged host. So he also left quickly.

  8. #8
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    Because it is the anniversary, I will repost a thread I made a long time ago that went double platinum with no features.


    http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sho...f-Shit-Scumbag


    Once again, this type of content has been created year after year. So Druff, can you put a Donate Button for my vacation fund?




    Joking obv

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    Inaugural Spring Classic Champion HoodedN's Avatar
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    tfw you spend all day writing your manifesto so you can't post in the wife thread

  10. #10
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoodedN View Post
    tfw you spend all day writing your manifesto so you can't post in the wife thread
    WTF are you talking about, I posted there before this one.

     
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      HoodedN: til death do you part

  11. #11
    Speedster Out of Clemson adamantium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HoodedN View Post
    tfw you spend all day writing your manifesto so you can't post in the wife thread
    WTF are you talking about, I posted there before this one.
    So who is dragging their feet in the marriage situation?

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    Photoballer 4Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    August 11, 2014.



    Bottom line is that the events of August 14, 2011 are the reason PFA exists today.
    You transposed your dates in the op, op.

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    Platinum thesparten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    August 11, 2014.

    I woke up and browsed Donkdown, as I had so many other days.

    I saw a "Donate" button on the top-left of the site. No explanation. No post about it by Micon. No e-mail about it to me. Just a donate button.

    I didn't even know where the money was supposed to be going, since I was supposed to be holding all the money for the site. (I think you can guess where it was going.)

    I then thought about a conversation from a week prior....

    Druff: Anyway, I've been wanting to talk to you about all these inactive forums we have, where nobody's posted in months. I want to consolidate a bunch of them. I almost went and did it on my own last night, but I figured you'd be pissed if I made a decision like that on my own.

    Micon: You're damn right I would've been pissed. You know we agreed never to make any changes without consulting the other!

    So I was dumbfounded.

    Somehow consolidating a bunch of super-inactive subforums without discussion would have been a sin, but posting a button for donations isn't discussion-worthy at all?

    This followed "hat-gate", where we had run out of DD hats to give away, or so I thought. I posted that I wished I could give away more hats, but we were completely out, and in fact felt bad that a few deserving active users missed out. Then someone found an eBay auction where Micon was quietly selling one for $8. This was highly embarrassing, and Micon never understood why I felt this looked bad for us.

    Between hatgate and the sudden, unexplained appearance of the donate button, we looked like pathetic beggars. Had I been consulted, I would have insisted that we precede it with an explanation, letting everyone know we couldn't get many sponsors due to our controversial content, and to donate if you enjoy the controversial content and free speech atmosphere. Instead, the button just appeared, and the users were already making fun of us about it in a new thread.

    I posted a sarcastic one-liner in response: "Glad to see I was informed about this beforehand."

    Micon saw it, and blew his top. He wrote his infamous "I CREATED THIS THING, DON'T YOU FUCKING FORGET THAT" post in response, outlining five reasons why I was terrible for Donkdown and had been holding it back from success.

    That was the beginning of the end.

    I was forced out of ownership there by a month later.

    During that month, the trolls residing at skatz, correctly sensing serious dissent in the ranks, all returned to Donkdown with the simple purpose of enflaming the situation. I'll give them credit. They were actually incredibly successful at doing so. I saw exactly what they were doing from day one, but Micon was blind to it, believing that this was simply "the return of old NWP", and this of course caused all kinds of further problems between us. I actually still get angry thinking about this situation, because it degenerated to some of these guys posting pics of little kids in my family with just their faces censored, and somehow Micon thought that should be okay. I sat there arguing for hours on the phone with him, where he kept insisting I was being "heavy handed" to ban people for this, and he was actually trying to lecture me that people should be allowed to post stolen pics of little kids in my famly, as long as "most" of their face/body is covered. I was exasperated. I kept asking him why, as a fucking owner of the site, I didn't have a right to stop ANY stolen family pics from being posted, especially of kids. "Free speech" was the answer.

    He kept unbanning anyone I banned for this or any other offense. Things deteriorated very quickly.

    It should be noted that many of the same skatz guys who posted these family pics (or supported them being posted) were among the first to PM me in 2014 after I got into the admin forum and I harvested tons of info. These PMs all expressed concern that I was going to post personal information about them or their families. Funny how what's good for the goose wasn't what was good for the gander. However, I was only interested at that point in ending things, so I told them that I wasn't going to do anything, provided the hostilities finally ceased. For the most part, other than some shitposting and a few todgers, they have.

    But I'm getting off course here.

    Bottom line is that the events of August 14, 2011 are the reason PFA exists today.

    When I left Donkdown a month later, I really believed I was leavng all of these poker forums for good. In fact, my only concern was to protect my family against further info/pics from being posted, which is why I sold my part of the site for a laughably cheap $1200 (which Micon made back from sponsors in 5 weeks) ON CREDIT. That is, Micon owned the site immediately but was able to wait until the site generated enough profit to actually pay me. In return, Micon signed a contract promising to keep my personal info off the site. The contract had no language forbidding a site like PFA being started, and in fact I told Micon there was a chance I would "start another site in 6-12 months", but at the time I left, I had no desire to do so.

    Indeed, six months later I did start my own site. Several people had been e-mailing me, saying that they missed my presence both on radio and in the forums, and that they really wanted me to start a new site. Eventually I agreed to do it, and PFA was born.

    Interestingly, I almost made the same mistake as I did with DD, letting someone else have a hand with being in charge. A user (one who posted here awhile but vanished around early 2014) offered to start a new site for me, and would do all of the technical work and design. At the time I had no experience running things like this from a technical standpoint, and was too lazy to learn all of it. I had the programming background, but there was still a learning curve. At the same time, I wasn't sure I wanted any kind of partner, even one who claimed he'd do it for free (as this guy was). I dragged my feet with giving this guy an answer, and he got insulted and rescinded the offer. At that point, I set out to do everything myself, and here we are.
    I never truly understood the animosity because it was before my time here..

    Micon IS a grimmy ,shady , untrustworthy asshole..

  14. #14
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Dragons View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    August 11, 2014.



    Bottom line is that the events of August 14, 2011 are the reason PFA exists today.
    You transposed your dates in the op, op.
    Shit. I'll go fix.

  15. #15
    Plutonium lol wow's Avatar
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    KIDS SO TRANSPOSED

     
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      Sanlmar: That's a keeper. Style over content FTW

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    One thing that people don't really understand, I mean the ones that never read NWP/DD, is that Micon was not well respected as a poster at any point. He was never the authority on any subject and rarely made an interesting post. He was never on anyone's best poster list. He mostly only read posts and threads by known Vegas pros, and made it clear that was his priority. When the board blew up, I highly doubt he even read most of the threads. Point is, NWP blowing up had about zero to do with Micon as a poster. Besides radio, he barely existed on the site, and was routinely mocked.

     
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      OSA: truth

  17. #17
    Plutonium lol wow's Avatar
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    uh his name was the icon

  18. #18
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Just one time I'd like to see Druff do a "Breakfast with the Todger" video in his Rio bathrobe.

    Maybe I am one of the transposed kids. This may not be for everyone.

    Kids server may not be up to it.

  19. #19
    Plutonium lol wow's Avatar
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    feel like a marriot would be more appropriate but todge this man has a point

  20. #20
    Platinum GrenadaRoger's Avatar
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    5 year anniversary of the beginning of the end of DD & Druff gives up a insider story....


    so, does that mean the Non-Disclosure Agreement was for a 5 year period that just expired?



    an old hurt sticks like gum on one's shoe and one needs a good revenge to be rid of it -- is the above smug post enough?


    (hope not)

    Last edited by GrenadaRoger; 08-14-2016 at 04:19 PM.
    (long before there was a PFA i had my Grenade & Crossbones avatar at DD)

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