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Thread: Reivew: Fighting Chance Podcast (featuring Dan O'Brien and Cate Hall)

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Reivew: Fighting Chance Podcast (featuring Dan O'Brien and Cate Hall)

    Someone asked me for my opinion on the relatively new Dan O'Brien & Cate Hall podcast, called "Fighting Chance".

    You can find it on iTunes here: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/...123826132?mt=2

    I listened to a full episode tonight (the one called "Aim Low" -- the latest one), and here is my review:

    This is a short podcast following the poker exploits of early 30s tournament players -- Dan O'Brien and Cate Hall.




    It is done in documentary format. You are not hearing Dan and Cate together bantering, for the most part. It is narrated by a producer named Jason, who did various short interviews with both players over a period of a week, and cobbled them together into a 20-30 minute podcast.

    Here's what I liked and disliked about the podcast...

    LIKED:

    - It provides an interesting and honest look into the life and often frustrating existence of the professional tournament poker player. Even though I only play tournaments for a few weeks per year at the WSOP, sometimes I feel alone in the depression, doubt, and frustration I feel when things don't go well. Hearing Dan and Cate express their feelings during the ups-and-downs of tournament life (including little snippets recorded during various stages of tournaments) reinforced to me that, yes, most tournament players feel exactly the same way I do. This was strangely comforting, and I enjoyed their refreshing honesty, as opposed to falsely confident posturing.

    - The format of covering Dan and Cate's progress during tournaments allows the listener to feel a degree of suspense, wondering what we will hear next regarding the results they ultimately ended up achieving.

    - The podcast seems to avoid obnoxious editorializing or social justice warrioring, at least in the episode I heard. I was afraid we would hear Cate lecturing us on feminism or some other SJW topic, but this podcast seems free of that, and just focuses on the pro poker aspect.

    - It seems to be tight and well produced.

    - Cate has a nice voice.


    DISLIKED:

    - I don't like the documentary format. It comes off as a haughty NPR show, and not in a good way. I would much rather hear a candid discussion between Cate and Dan, even if it was post-produced. It comes off as unnatural and overproduced to a degree. This is actually the opposite of my show, which is live and not produced at all, but where everything is real and natural.

    - It's too short. All of them are less than 30 minutes in length. Just as you're starting to get into it, the podcast is over.

    - Even though Dan and Cate are both over 30, they both come off as young and somewhat naive. If I didn't already know their ages, I would have guessed I was listening to two 23-year-olds. (Dan even discussed taking a break from WSOP to go to EDC!) As a 44-year-old, I found Dan and Cate a bit hard to relate to, even though I related a lot to the poker aspects. Even the narrator comes off as young. I think this show would benefit from coming off a bit less youthful, if that makes any sense.


    Overall, it was an interesting listen, but I'm not sure if I will listen again. I would really prefer if they ditched the doc format, and if we got to know the two hosts much better.

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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    I listened to the first episode and none after that.

    It wasn't horrible but not enough to keep my interest.

    Kristy Arnett has a podcast called "WTF am I doing with my life" that is alright. Not all of her topics interest me but this one back in mid June about how she got rolled for $20k was good.

    Scroll down to listen on the website or get it through itunes.

    http://www.kristyarnett.com/blog/002f

  3. #3
    currently being interviewed on Chicago Joey's stream https://www.twitch.tv/chicagojoeypoker

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    Diamond chinamaniac's Avatar
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    Dan just said on chicagojoeys podcast they pay like $600 for each episode to be made


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    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinamaniac View Post
    Dan just said on chicagojoeys podcast they pay like $600 for each episode to be made
    I listened to most of that podcast and when I heard this part I laughed at how stupid he was to do such a thing. The part that makes me facepalm the most is Dan goes on in his podcast with ChiagoJoey about not being a wealthy man, being lazy when it comes to playing poker, hating live cash because he would rather do other things in his life,etc. , yet he is willing to pay $600 an episode for this podcast?

    Dan was riding Cate's name imo. Whether people like Cate or don't they want to hear what she has to say and it was obvious Dan was thinking they could make money off this podcast.

    Even if they felt they could get half the money back (based on traffic) this podcast would continue for a little while because Dan sees the growth potential which could lead them to future profit by running ads. That was his dream at least.

    If they really had to have a narrator for this podcast then why didn't Dan hire SrslySirius who could have done the job just fine for a third of the price?

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by chinamaniac View Post
    Dan just said on chicagojoeys podcast they pay like $600 for each episode to be made
    I listened to most of that podcast and when I heard this part I laughed at how stupid he was to do such a thing. The part that makes me facepalm the most is Dan goes on in his podcast with ChiagoJoey about not being a wealthy man, being lazy when it comes to playing poker, hating live cash because he would rather do other things in his life,etc. , yet he is willing to pay $600 an episode for this podcast?

    Dan was riding Cate's name imo. Whether people like Cate or don't they want to hear what she has to say and it was obvious Dan was thinking they could make money off this podcast.

    Even if they felt they could get half the money back (based on traffic) this podcast would continue for a little while because Dan sees the growth potential which could lead them to future profit by running ads. That was his dream at least.

    If they really had to have a narrator for this podcast then why didn't Dan hire SrslySirius who could have done the job just fine for a third of the price?
    LOL $600

    As soon as I heard that weird narrator, I thought to myself, "I bet that dude is charging them to put this together, or is collecting some hefty percentage of the sponsor money, since I imagine Dan and Cate are too clueless or lazy to put together a podcast themselves."

    I thought this because the narrator is otherwise unnecessary, and you can tell that he thinks he's working for NPR when he makes this thing.

    I really should get some sponsors if 25 minute failshows like this are scoring them.

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    Diamond chinamaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BeerAndPoker View Post

    I listened to most of that podcast and when I heard this part I laughed at how stupid he was to do such a thing. The part that makes me facepalm the most is Dan goes on in his podcast with ChiagoJoey about not being a wealthy man, being lazy when it comes to playing poker, hating live cash because he would rather do other things in his life,etc. , yet he is willing to pay $600 an episode for this podcast?

    Dan was riding Cate's name imo. Whether people like Cate or don't they want to hear what she has to say and it was obvious Dan was thinking they could make money off this podcast.

    Even if they felt they could get half the money back (based on traffic) this podcast would continue for a little while because Dan sees the growth potential which could lead them to future profit by running ads. That was his dream at least.

    If they really had to have a narrator for this podcast then why didn't Dan hire SrslySirius who could have done the job just fine for a third of the price?
    LOL $600

    As soon as I heard that weird narrator, I thought to myself, "I bet that dude is charging them to put this together, or is collecting some hefty percentage of the sponsor money, since I imagine Dan and Cate are too clueless or lazy to put together a podcast themselves."

    I thought this because the narrator is otherwise unnecessary, and you can tell that he thinks he's working for NPR when he makes this thing.

    I really should get some sponsors if 25 minute failshows like this are scoring them.
    My first thoughts was it was a college intern doing it for free. The narrator is also the reason I turned it off

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    I wonder how much Mason pays the 2+2 pokercast producer to post-produce that show.

    Because I do all of this crap myself (well, except post production, of which I do none), I often take for granted how much money these other shows are probably paying people to put it all together.

  9. #9
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    Not surprisingly, this seems to be done for good. It says at the end of the episode, "We'll see you next year", but I don't believe it.

    They had the "series finale" back on August 8, and nobody even noticed.

    I listened to snippets of this episode, and don't even hear the narrator or the NPR-like background music. It's just a bunch of rambling with Dan sounding like he's talking on a speakerphone.

    What a clusterfuck. I actually gave this crap too much credit in my initial review.


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Not surprisingly, this seems to be done for good. It says at the end of the episode, "We'll see you next year", but I don't believe it.

    They had the "series finale" back on August 8, and nobody even noticed.

    I listened to snippets of this episode, and don't even hear the narrator or the NPR-like background music. It's just a bunch of rambling with Dan sounding like he's talking on a speakerphone.

    What a clusterfuck. I actually gave this crap too much credit in my initial review.

    This is my personal opinion whether it matters or not , but it takes alot of stamina and will power to put together a continuing podcast on a weekly basis. which is why i give kudos to guys like Andrew Brokas Thinking Poker , Ante Up , Two plus two. The fly by night podcasts which last a few months or a few episodes , for the most part rarely return. Several factors might contribute such as lack of motivation, horrendous bad beats at the cash and tournament tables etc. Its real hard to stay focused and motivated after blowing 10k at the poker table. Although this might sound sexist , but most women cannot cope with long term bad beats worse than their male counterpart. This might explain why Cate Hall stated that she cannot see herself playing poker for a living for very long. Matter fact she even gave a time frame by 2017 where she just might pack it in. She wasnt singing that same tune when she had that big 300k score at final table . When you lose the game that used to be your close buddy suddenly becomes your enemy. From a personal perspective its not really about the money but more about ones self worth. When you lose you feel like a loser and nothing will ever go your way or maybe you were just destined to lose or be a long term loser. When you win everyone gravitates to you as though you are some sort of heralded hero when in reality you are on a massive heater and cards just happen to be going your way. I dont see Cate Hall lasting long in the poker scene. In order to be one of the greats you need to be totally numb to losing money. Easier said than done but thats the bottom line

  11. #11
    I applaud anyone who writes more than two sentences of coherent thought on this site, mymouth. You seem to have some vested interest in Cate or that podcast.

    The irony is that you are responding to Druff with thoughts about becoming emotionally exhausted by poker and that affecting the show.

    Druff has been at this a long time. No doubt during the course of human events he has suffered bad beats and downswings. You can NEVER detect this listening to his podcasts. On rare occasions he will hint at a bad run or loss. Thinking back to shows that coincide with that period you never see the loss affecting his demeanor on air.

    Druff doesn't tilt. About anything. Believe me, we try. I admire his talent and approach to life but I recognize that I too am a low grade Druff troll of most every idea that he holds dear. It's usually just reflex and muscle memory. He IS usually wrong about most of the bigger picture issues so I rely on my instincts ... shit, I can't stop.

    Anyway, I found your post to be the height of irony. Post more.

     
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      Dan Druff: a positive post about me from Sanlmar! wow

  12. #12
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mymouthstinks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Not surprisingly, this seems to be done for good. It says at the end of the episode, "We'll see you next year", but I don't believe it.

    They had the "series finale" back on August 8, and nobody even noticed.

    I listened to snippets of this episode, and don't even hear the narrator or the NPR-like background music. It's just a bunch of rambling with Dan sounding like he's talking on a speakerphone.

    What a clusterfuck. I actually gave this crap too much credit in my initial review.

    This is my personal opinion whether it matters or not , but it takes alot of stamina and will power to put together a continuing podcast on a weekly basis. which is why i give kudos to guys like Andrew Brokas Thinking Poker , Ante Up , Two plus two. The fly by night podcasts which last a few months or a few episodes , for the most part rarely return. Several factors might contribute such as lack of motivation, horrendous bad beats at the cash and tournament tables etc. Its real hard to stay focused and motivated after blowing 10k at the poker table. Although this might sound sexist , but most women cannot cope with long term bad beats worse than their male counterpart. This might explain why Cate Hall stated that she cannot see herself playing poker for a living for very long. Matter fact she even gave a time frame by 2017 where she just might pack it in. She wasnt singing that same tune when she had that big 300k score at final table . When you lose the game that used to be your close buddy suddenly becomes your enemy. From a personal perspective its not really about the money but more about ones self worth. When you lose you feel like a loser and nothing will ever go your way or maybe you were just destined to lose or be a long term loser. When you win everyone gravitates to you as though you are some sort of heralded hero when in reality you are on a massive heater and cards just happen to be going your way. I dont see Cate Hall lasting long in the poker scene. In order to be one of the greats you need to be totally numb to losing money. Easier said than done but thats the bottom line
    Welcome to the site.

    I'm not sure if you are just a forum reader or a radio show listener, but you realize that I do a show on PokerFraudAlert, right?

    We're about to do our 200th episode... probably tomorrow, and we've been going about 4 1/2 years.

    I can relate to everything you wrote about losing motivation to do radio shows and podcasts when you're losing. I've been there myself. That's why I won't play poker on the same day I'm doing the show. I don't want to come into the show reeling from a big loss, and have it affect me.

    Those feelings you describe of "feeling like a loser, nothing goes your way, destined to be a long term loser" have entered my head at times during downswings. When you're on a huge downer, it feels like you'll never win again. When you're on a heater, it feels like winning is effortless, to the point where having a losing session in the middle of it is a shock.

    I actually enjoyed the "ups and downs of poker" part of the Fighting Chances podcast.

    I didn't enjoy the pointless narrator, nor did I particularly like the NPR-like format of the show. And as I said, the podcast needed some more maturity. You felt like you were listening to two college kids (despite both hosts being in their early 30s), rather than adults.

    Unless you're shooting for an exclusive young audience, it's a mistake to come off as juvenile or irresponsibly immature, because the listeners over 35 can't relate to you. I had a hard time relating to Dan talking about breaking from WSOP to go to EDC, and Cate giggling as she was trying to get past the security guard in her building. Just came off like two college kids who had no clue what they were doing with their lives. That detracted from the interesting segments of the ups and downs of pro poker life.

  13. #13
    my response was not directed towards you Mr Druff . Not sure who you are but i happen to find the pod quite compelling The only thing missing is the tears from Cate or possibly Dan throwing a major tilt fit which would include trashing the hotel room out of sheer disgust. If you think they only show that in the movies think again. When people bet over their head they lose their mind and things can get out of control depending on how emotionally stable they are. I am not implying by any means that Dan or Cate have exhibited that behavior but i know i would throw a major shit fit if i dropped anything close to 1k which is why i place a stop limit on my losses so i dont go berserk. Dont get me wrong i love the game but when i walk out of the casino a loser in cash or tournaments i feel like i should not have played in the first place Actually i feel more like a fool than anything else. I enjoyed some early success in low buy in tournaments which got me hooked thinking i i will win most of the time. Reality set in and i found myself giving back whatever i earned and then some . Hopefully i can write off some of these tournament buy in losses with my tax guy but im not counting on it. Only been playing a year or so after taking a 35yr hiatus from the sport . I first started playing stud back in 1979 while rubbing elbows with some of the legends such as Stu Unger. The ring rust has certainly taken its toll I went from 20 to 57 rather quickly . Anyhow back to Cate I have no vested interest in her or Dan but i enjoy their journey. I would never leave a 500k a year job to play poker full time. I am assuming she can get her job back whenever she chooses but from what i hear on the podcast she has no intention of returning to law. I would safely assume that if she did not make that WPT final table Was it WPT? if so i believe she would have dropped the idea of playing poker for a living alot sooner. A 300k boost in bankroll would make anyone think twice about sticking with their 9-5. However i think like all newbies she happened to run good . She seems to have a good head on her shoulder and with her superior intellect she can go a long way at the felt if she put her mind to it books coaching training videos etc. I myself would love to get better but i just dont have the bankroll for it at the present time. If i had a few hundred grand or less in the bank it would be no problema I can barely pay my bills on my 9-5 but if i had my way i would be playing poker every day of my life
    Last edited by mymouthstinks; 09-07-2016 at 05:02 PM.

  14. #14
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Did Cate have a job before entering poker, or did she go directly from law school to poker?

    Either way, she couldn't have many (or any) years of work experience, so she wouldn't be making $500k per year as an attorney. Most attorneys don't mae anywhere near that.

    I didn't realize you were older. If you were playing in 1979, you're definitely a lot older than me, as I was only 7 that year.

    If you've never heard PokerFraudAlert Radio, try listening to it and see how you like our show. It's on live every weekat around 7:30pm PDT and runs many hours (usually Wednesday, but this week it's Thursday). Click the "Radio" button near the top of the page to listen.

    You can find archives here: http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/for...12-Radio-Shows

    You can also find PokerFraudAlert on Stitcher, iTunes, or TuneIn.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Did Cate have a job before entering poker, or did she go directly from law school to poker?

    Either way, she couldn't have many (or any) years of work experience, so she wouldn't be making $500k per year as an attorney. Most attorneys don't mae anywhere near that.

    I didn't realize you were older. If you were playing in 1979, you're definitely a lot older than me, as I was only 7 that year.

    If you've never heard PokerFraudAlert Radio, try listening to it and see how you like our show. It's on live every weekat around 7:30pm PDT and runs many hours (usually Wednesday, but this week it's Thursday). Click the "Radio" button near the top of the page to listen.

    You can find archives here: http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/for...12-Radio-Shows

    You can also find PokerFraudAlert on Stitcher, iTunes, or TuneIn.
    Cool im gonna check it out. If i knew your pod existed earlier i would have been a follower. I listen to thinking poker , two plus two, sometimes i tune into ante up but that podcast is more about promoting their cruises . Under the gun with dave tuchman is ok but i FF when he does his beer taste tests.

  16. #16
    [I think i am officially done with poker . Its always the same ending and its usually a bad one. I end up calling an all in raise thinking i have best hand only to get crushed time and time again . I end up walking out slammng the chair or cursing out the guy who busted me. I hate losing $1 $2 cash games especially when im up $100 or so and give it all back and my starting stack of $80 to some old fart in his 70's who beats my Pocket A straight wheel with a 7 high straight. I should have just shoved pocket A's preflop and he would have folded but i was trying to build a pot instead of collecting a whopping 4 BB. I know to many 40BB at $1 $2 is peanuts but at this point in my life its alot. Ill find another less expensive hobby like playing daily numbers. When or if i accumulate a big bankroll then i will play poker again but until then im done It sucks to lose

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