I've been actively playing limit hold 'em nearly every day for the past 11+ years.
It's limit hold 'em that I have to thank for the fact that I haven't held a regular job since 2003.
If you'd like to ask me limit hold 'em questions, or post hand histories to analyze your play, do it here.
I'll post some basic strategy tips for limit hold 'em shortly, but this thread can be used for questions and answers.
Hey Druff,
I was playing in a WSOPc HORSE tournament a few weeks ago and Limit Holdem is without question my weakest of the 5 games.
This hand came up and I missed value, but im just curious how much value i missed..
Me KK on the button...
Heads up it went to 5 bets preflop
flop - Axx rainbow..
My opponent check called my flop bet.
He checked the turn and I checked behind and the same on the river.
I know I lost at least one street of value on the river, but am I also suppose to bet the turn in that spot?
My opponent had QQ BTW
Don't beat yourself up about the turn. If he had AK or AA and check-raised your value bet on the turn, you would have felt stupid all night.Originally Posted by Jasep
Tournaments are a different situation, because you can't reload. Preserving chips is sometimes more important than getting extra value. This is not to say you should play super-scared in tournaments, but know that sometimes it's better to keep pots smaller in marginal situations -- especially ones where you're not likely to get sucked out upon.
However, you should have bet the river. Only a small percentage of players would check out of position BOTH streets like that if they held better than KK. Once he checked the river, you definitely should have bet.
If it's the type of player who you think can bluff-raise the turn, you're right to check behind there. If it's one who would only check-raise the turn with the ace (or better), I would bet the turn and fold to a check-raise. The fact that it went 5 bets means that he's unlikely to have just a weak ace that he's calling down. If the hand only went 3 bets, you would be smart to check the turn, because he could also be calling down a weaker ace.
how much money did you have when you turned pro?
I don't want to give exact numbers, but I already had a 6-figure bankroll primarily due to being a cheap Jew and saving my money over the years.
Remember, I didn't start playing professionally until 2003. At that point, I was already 31 years old, and had a good career going for 8 years.
This made it a lot less stressful to move up in limits (which I still did rather slowly), because I wasn't gambling my bottom dollar if I ran bad.
Hey Druff,
I am just a hobbyist. I started with Small Stakes Hold'Em, playing $0.50/1 online and up to $4/8 limit live. Then I switched to no limit where my usual game is $2/5 NL (although I don't really get to play that often).
I've been interested in trying $10/20 limit. I usally play at Foxwoods or Borgata. so the game usually runs. Does that kind of game run like a typical Small Stakes Hold'Em game? Or at places like Foxwoods or Borgata, is it filled with nitty regulars?
I've heard your old radio shows where you use an isolating style. I've never really played that way, and would prefer a straight-up small stakes hold'em game. Do you think it would work at East Coast $10/20 limit?
How much of a difference does it make if higher games are running or not running? $10/20 sometimes will be the highest game going. Would the $10/20 be much better when $20/40 is running?
Thanks,
-Tom
The highest game running in any poker room is usually considerably tougher than the 2nd-highest game (of the same type).
This goes along with my earlier-posted statement that most poker players play one level too high for where they really belong.
So, yes, if you play $10/$20, I would try to play on nights when the $20/$40 is also going.
You refer to my "isolating style", but you don't have to play that way. You can also stick to a tight-aggressive style, which will also work. Just don't get caught up in the limper's mentality that frequently takes place in those games.
Like, it's fine to limp if you have a suited-connector type hand and you have a few limpers in front of you, but don't get into the mindset where you're just generally going to limp along with everyone else unless you have a premium hand.
I can't answer about the regulars in those east coast games, as I don't live on that side of the country.
Hey Druff –
Thanks for taking the time to do this.
I’m a recreational losing to break-even low-limit player (3/6 and 4/8). I make money when the game is populated with drunks and degenerates, but lose when the most of the players at the table are tight and/or semi component.
What I notice is that when the tables are tight and/or populated with semi component players, it’s not always that I’m losing big to them, it is that the rake (10%, max of $4 plus $1 jackpot) is making everybody lose. Many nights it seems to me at least that no one at the table is 10% (plus a dollar tip for every winning hand) better than anybody else.
Your thoughts on jumping to 8/16 with the hopes the lower rake as a percentage of the pot will help tilt the scales to slight winner/break even? Or if I can’t beat 4/8 – even with the rake – am I kidding myself?
What is the smallest limit where the rake can be beat? I assume it's different for online vs live.
Multiple factors would need to be defined to give a 100% precise answer...
If you're talking live the lowest I'd imagine would be a 4-8 game, even then you'd probably be beating the game for peanuts after the drop+toke's. Online is a lot different getting rakeback and not having to tip will save you boatloads long term. I'd imagine you could beat some really small stakes online but then again why would you even bother? Do you really want to beat the 25c-50c game for a bet or two? lol
Yes, move out of $4/$8 if you want to beat the rake. That rake you described is brutal.
If you are a decent limit player, you should be able to handle live $8/$16.
Just remember never to open-limp, and to play your made hands aggressively (but learn to slow down when getting raised by the super-straightforward types).
Live 10-20 at the Borgata. Not above my bankroll, but I've been having trouble winning here, consistently at least. Players seem to pick their spots for targeted aggression, and except for some preflop isolation raises/re-raises, nobody seems to be getting too out of line.
(I'm not seeing any suit icons, so pardon me for the format below)
8 handed...
Preflop: Hero is BB with 6h, 5d
UTG calls, 3 folds, CO raises, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls
Flop: 2c, 3s, 5h (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, CO calls
Turn: Ah (2 players)
Hero check, CO bet, Hero calls
River: Qd (2 players)
Hero???
My thought process:
Preflop, I'm getting 6:1, ready to play four way. I usually bet this flop, but my read on the table was that someone was going to bet behind me. So while I would have hated to give a free card here with low top pair (and a missed chance to thin the field). Rather than donk bet the turn, the Ace coming seemed like a spot where I wanted to showdown my pair, and these players seemed tricky enough to raise me with a heart draw, in which case I'd not really know where I stand. So do I check call this river? (and am I correct in thinking that I only have to be good over 10% of the time here, and I can put my opponent on busted straight or flush draws, which I mostly beat (unless of course he has a higher pair than me)?)
Any thoughts or criticisms from Druff or ANY accomplished LHE player welcome!
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